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  1. #1
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    Default Need help with a WF tank

    Hey all, looking for some help on WF Tank. I am going to be part of an all WF party in the near future and have drawn the roll of TANK!!!

    I have never played one. Found some decent builds on here but most of them seem to be very gear and tome dependent. Was hoping to get some ideas of Tanks that can use easy to find or easy to make gear. Im looking for something with evasion, high AC and decent saves. Any help and or links would be great thanks all

  2. #2
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdmag View Post
    Hey all, looking for some help on WF Tank. I am going to be part of an all WF party in the near future and have drawn the roll of TANK!!!

    I have never played one. Found some decent builds on here but most of them seem to be very gear and tome dependent. Was hoping to get some ideas of Tanks that can use easy to find or easy to make gear. Im looking for something with evasion, high AC and decent saves. Any help and or links would be great thanks all
    Monk pure, earth stance.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Monk pure, earth stance.
    Please elaborate
    Can I tank, can I keep and/or gather agrro When Im needed to?
    Last edited by bigdmag; 12-15-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Earth stance now provides both damage resistance and threat bonus (which I presume stacks with WF threat enhs); and any monk can get at least decent AC without too much gear grinding. So a WF monk can make a pretty decent hate-tank; go dark for the extra DPS and Shadow Fade. The main downside is monks are pretty MAD; it really helps if you have at least a couple of +2 tomes to throw at your build. Also on a pure monk Intim is not a class skill; not necessarily a huge loss, esp. if playing with a static group which knows to let you draw aggro first, but something to bear in mind.

  5. #5
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    My first thought when I saw WF tank was "Don't do it". WF melee are generally devalued by recent changes to the game.

    I'm assuming that you have a reconstructer instead of a healer if you're joining a WF group. At that point, I would just choose a DR Stalwart build and try to get whatever AC you can as you level. My guild has a DR/AC dwarf tank that just rocks. Just splash a couple rogue levels for evasion.

  6. #6
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    Big D<-------NOW INTERESTED IN MONKS

    I never really even thought of the monk, a few questions.

    1. Can a monk be the main tank, lets say against the Demon Queen or Lord of the blades?

    2. Do they fair well at end game as a tank if built correctly?

    3. Can i get my AC and DR up high enough to survive the aggro?

    4. Can I get my HP's up high enough to take the damage?

    5. Do lose most of my DPS if I focus on tanking?

    I know the saves are nice and evasion is always a plus, just wondering if I would be able to use intimadate or if it would be all hate tanking? and how effective is hate tanking at end game?

  7. #7
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdmag View Post
    Big D<-------NOW INTERESTED IN MONKS

    I never really even thought of the monk, a few questions.

    1. Can a monk be the main tank, lets say against the Demon Queen or Lord of the blades?

    2. Do they fair well at end game as a tank if built correctly?

    3. Can i get my AC and DR up high enough to survive the aggro?

    4. Can I get my HP's up high enough to take the damage?

    5. Do lose most of my DPS if I focus on tanking?

    I know the saves are nice and evasion is always a plus, just wondering if I would be able to use intimadate or if it would be all hate tanking? and how effective is hate tanking at end game?
    1. yes

    2. yes

    3. yes

    4. yes, or you could build for ac and not need the hp.

    5. no, most of your dps comes from ki strikes, and tod rings, base str makes less difference on unarmed than it does weapons.

    6. intimidate isn't a class skill, and cha (and int if you don't want CE) is your only dump stat, i'd ignore it and rely on earth stances hate gen. (w/f incite will help too)

  8. #8
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    here's an idea of what i'd do with a 32 point build in an all w/f party

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    bigdmag 
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Warforged Male
    (20 Monk) 
    Hit Points: 347
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 15
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    22
    Dexterity            15                    18
    Constitution         17                    21
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               12                    17
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    31
    Bluff                -2                    -2
    Concentration         7                    41
    Diplomacy            -2                    -2
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -2                    -2
    Heal                  1                     3
    Hide                  2                     8
    Intimidate           -2                    -2
    Jump                  3                    20
    Listen                1                     3
    Move Silently         2                     8
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                  4                    26
    Swim                  3                     6
    Tumble                3                     7
    Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Void Strike I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting I
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
    Enhancement: Porous Soul
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Adept of Rock
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
    Enhancement: Winter's Touch
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Touch of Death
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
    Enhancement: Void Strike II
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
    Enhancement: Master of Stone
    
    
    Level 13 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Master of Thunder
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Warforged Brute Fighting II
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Warforged Tactics I
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike
    Enhancement: Adept of Rain
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
    Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
    Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack II
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Monk Serenity
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
    The ac will be ok, but very clicky dependant
    The dps will be ok throughout, but will be much better when you get to level 12.
    To really make it work you'll want to be using unbalancing strike to make sure you get your ninja sneak attack dice when you have agro.
    Bladesmark docent is a god send
    vampiric stonedust handwraps are great for surving but kinda weak dps (but wear them and spam stunning fist)

    If you know your coming into a boss fight soon, switch to fire build up some ki, and hit a boss with touch of death to get 250-1500 points of damage and get agro like a pro.

    If you're going to be grouping with divine healers i'd consider dropping tortise III for healers friend 1, and w/f con 2 for monk healing amp tier 1.

    All level ups in str, cept for level 16, put that into dex for the last tier of wind stance.

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    A couple modest suggestions for fTdOmen's build:

    • Start DEX 16 CON 16. This gives you the option of adding Grandmaster Wind stance (w/+2 DEX tome) while still getting GM Earth (w/+2 CON tome). I'm not sure if you'd need it, but personally I'd rather have the option and not use it than get to endgame and realize I really want it. And an extra 1/2 pt of AC never hurts on an AC tank.
    • Also consider going WIS-based by starting STR 14 WIS 14 and putting your level-ups into WIS. Essentially you're trading "raw" DPS & tactics DCs (Stunning Blow, Sunder, etc.) for higher AC & DCs on monk attacks (S.Fist, ToD, etc.). I'll leave it to the monk-tank experts to tell you which is actually better, though.
    • Instead of WF Blunt, take Stunning Blow; with Stunning wraps, good STR, maybe some WF Tactics enhs, if gives you a solid extra CC option. Besides, what's one more clicky on a monk action bar, amirite?
    • I would delay Toughness to lvl 3 (can't take racial Toughness enhs until 3) and Dodge to lvl 6 (only necessary for Ninja PrE); bump up S.Blow to 1st lvl, S.Fist to 2nd, and bump PA back to lvl 6.

  10. #10
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    A couple modest suggestions for fTdOmen's build:

    • Start DEX 16 CON 16. This gives you the option of adding Grandmaster Wind stance (w/+2 DEX tome) while still getting GM Earth (w/+2 CON tome). I'm not sure if you'd need it, but personally I'd rather have the option and not use it than get to endgame and realize I really want it. And an extra 1/2 pt of AC never hurts on an AC tank.
      note i pointed out put a level up point into dex at 16, this has that covered
    • Also consider going WIS-based by starting STR 14 WIS 14 and putting your level-ups into WIS. Essentially you're trading "raw" DPS & tactics DCs (Stunning Blow, Sunder, etc.) for higher AC & DCs on monk attacks (S.Fist, ToD, etc.). I'll leave it to the monk-tank experts to tell you which is actually better, though.
      widsom builds work better for people who don't want to primarily tank, you'll lose a lot of to hit which is especially important later on
    • Instead of WF Blunt, take Stunning Blow; with Stunning wraps, good STR, maybe some WF Tactics enhs, if gives you a solid extra CC option. Besides, what's one more clicky on a monk action bar, amirite?
      this is sound advice, but imo mobs don't live long enough early game for stunning to matter, and esp when running quests on elite your too hit needs a boost early on, i'd swap the feat at ~level 12
    • I would delay Toughness to lvl 3 (can't take racial Toughness enhs until 3) and Dodge to lvl 6 (only necessary for Ninja PrE); bump up S.Blow to 1st lvl, S.Fist to 2nd, and bump PA back to lvl 6.
      again mobs don't live long early on, stuns aren't important early game (esp cause you won't have ki) hp has to be taken sooner or later, and does make a difference early on, so take it sooner.
    Responces in red

    i put dodge at low levels cause you need it anyway and the ac will be useful if your doing elite bonuses, and can't be bothered with clickies.

    ultimately though, the first 6 levels only take a few hours of gametime, we'd argue the point longer than it would take getting there. (and neither of us would be wrong)

    also please note that what i've proposed is a higher dps damage reduction monk, it'll need healing when tanking, if you prefer the idea of a high ac build please say so and i'll bust that option out too.
    Last edited by fTdOmen; 12-15-2011 at 05:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    Responces in red
    Since you nested your replies and I'm too lazy to copy-n-paste, my counter-points:

    • My approach to stats provides +1 STR; yours provides +1 CON. One other advantage to mine is for someone who's strapped for plat & tomes is they can take a +1 DEX tome to get ITWF & GTWF, then a +2 later on for GM Wind (or skip it entirely); OP said he wanted something which wasn't too gear- or tome-dependent. Not a big deal either way, it's just a question of which tweak feels more appropriate. [Obviously, I vote for my approach. ]
    • Stunning isn't usually necessary at low lvls, but it's still useful, fun, and more importantly good practice for an up-n-coming monk. Learning to juggle all your clickies is perhaps the most important lesson for any monk, grasshopper. Train `em early, train `em often in good tactics, I always say.*

    *"Always" possibly defined to mean "from now on."

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