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  1. #1

    Default Corrosive Salt changes and calomel weapons comparison.

    So when the calomel weapons first released I did some numbers and found them to be rather normal dmg comparisons except on few mobs. Some further testing of corrosive salt has changed my opinion and have me wanting to gear every character with them.

    My first tests were done with the info listed on the wiki for corrosive salt at 4 tics of 20d6
    (70 avg) was testing something else on my rogues epic smallblade and noticed that it was providing 6 ticks where it used to give 4. Couple that with information that I received about the proc rate 2% (same as wiki) and dmg being 5d10+50. Testing confirms this dmg value as more likely than the 20d6 as the range of numbers received is too tight to be 20d6.

    Here is a screenshot of all 6 tics in the combat log for a corrosive salt proc on the training dummy.



    So wiki values of corrosive salt had it at .02*70*4 or 5.6 avg dmg per hit.

    With the new information I have it is .02*77.5*6 or 9.3 avg dmg per hit.

    That's a pretty marked increase.

    This has led me to reconsider several weapons available out there. The most prevalant out there are the calomel weapons and similarly the tier two water effect for alchemicals.

    In order to look at calomels I had to also look at crushing wave and it's dmg capabilities. After getting the same reliable information on the proc chance numbers of 2% and 4d6+20 cold and 4d6+20 bludgeon per tick and confirming a value of 4 ticks the dmg per hit of crushing wave appears to be .02*4*34*2 or 5.44 avg dmg per hit.

    So the crushing wave+corrosive salt combo put out an average of 14.74 dmg per hit.

    Keep in mind that due to the dot nature of these effects there is the chance that you lose a small portionof this dmg per hit on rare occasions due to a new proc happening before an old one ends.

    Using this info I took a avg dmg per swing comparison. First I used just the calomel against a normal mob no fire type not dragon and no resistance to cold. I used a rapier as the toon I was first looking at was going to make one.

    Assumptions: Above tested info for values of corrosive salt and crushing wave, seeker 6, improved crit, no double stacked wave or salts.

    calomelstandard := .65*(7+6+x+2.5)+.3*(2*(7+6+x+6)+2.5+4.5)+0.5e-1*35+.95*(77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4));

    x=str mod +additional dmg modifiers

    so thats 39.32800 + 1.25 x

    I then compared that to another good standard all purpose weapons the LitII rapier

    lightningII := .65*(4.5+5+x+7+3.5)+.3*(2*(4.5+5+x+6)+7+3.5+5.5+5. 5)+0.5e-1*14+610*(0.95*0.15e-1);

    or 38.14250+1.25 x

    9 more dmg per swing on a calomel over a lit II. And the calomel has all but the cold portion of it's crushing wave dmg as untyped and unresistable. Lit II has a bunch more that's either resistable or immune to over the course of fighting different mob types.

    Thats a large enough overage that I decided to check it's generic dmg on a mob versus a very specified weapon for that same mob. So I took a +5 holy bursted greater bane rapier against it's bane type mob. Assume the mob is evil and no other dr is in play.

    holyburstgreaterbane := .65*(3.5+9+x+7+10.5)+.3*(2*(3.5+9+x+6)+7+10.5+10.5 );

    or 39.000 + 1.25 x

    So a calomel is slightly better than a +5 holy bursted greater bane when dr is not an issue.

    That was a big surprise to me. This is starting to really look good for the calomel weapons as more than just a niche dragon beater.

    Speaking of let's look at the calomel versus any dragon other than white (keep in mind it loses very little against white) with 0% fort.

    calomeldragon := .65*(7+10+x+2.5+10.5)+.3*(2*(7+10+x+6)+2.5+10.5+4. 5)+0.5e-1*35+.95*(77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4));

    or 54.30300 + 1.25 x

    That's a crazy amount for a one handed weapon. A holy bursted greater dragon bane is only the above amount of 39+1.25x.

    Velah is a little different as she has some fortification however it's not enough to make me wanna use any other weapon against her. White dragons lose .095*.02*4*34 or .2584 dmg per hit so it's still over 54.

    Another comparison is for 100% fortified mobs. So I took a look at the calomel versus 100% fortified mob no resistance to cold no fire type.

    calomelfullfort := .95*(7+6+x+2.5+77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4))+.3*4.5;

    or 30.07800 + 0.95 x


    for comparison I was looking at elemental beaters. My best elemental beater I have tested so far is a +5 risia bursted shocking bursted greater elemental bane rapier

    dualburstrisiageb := .95*(3.5+9+x+3.5+3.5+10.5)+.3*11;

    or 31.800 + 0.95 x

    That's close enough that anything less than that and the calomel is better.

    In the case of Fire elementals, both get increased dmg from the fire type creature but the elemntals have a nasty habit of casting cold protection on themselves and that stops the icy burst but not the tidal.

    I'll do some more comparisons here later on want to look at two handed as well as the khopesh non calomel versus the calomel scimitar. Looking at the numbers provided above it's most likely that the calomel scimi will top a lit II khopesh for standard generic trash but specialty crafted greater banes will beat out the calomel scimi on non dragons.

    Hope everyone finds this as eye opening as I have. Whereas before I really didn't want to grind out a pair of these for my melees just to use on evelah fights now I want a pair for any twf due to their superiority over most any generic mob. The lack of any resistance to almost all of their dmg makes them a great all around beater.
    Last edited by LeLoric; 12-15-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    So when the calomel weapons first released I did some numbers and found them to be rather normal dmg comparisons except on few mobs. Some further testing of corrosive salt has changed my opinion and have me wanting to gear every character with them.

    My first tests were done with the info listed on the wiki for corrosive salt at 4 tics of 20d6
    (70 avg) was testing something else on my rogues epic smallblade and noticed that it was providing 6 ticks where it used to give 4. Couple that with information that I received about the proc rate 2% (same as wiki) and dmg being 5d10+50. Testing confirms this dmg value as more likely than the 20d6 as the range of numbers received is too tight to be 20d6.

    Here is a screenshot of all 6 tics in the combat log for a corrosive salt proc on the training dummy.



    So wiki values of corrosive salt had it at .02*70*4 or 5.6 avg dmg per hit.

    With the new information I have it is .02*77.5*6 or 9.3 avg dmg per hit.

    That's a pretty marked increase.

    This has led me to reconsider several weapons available out there. The most prevalant out there are the calomel weapons and similarly the tier two water effect for alchemicals.

    In order to look at calomels I had to also look at crushing wave and it's dmg capabilities. After getting the same reliable information on the proc chance numbers of 2% and 4d6+20 cold and 4d6+20 bludgeon per tick and confirming a value of 4 ticks the dmg per hit of crushing wave appears to be .02*4*34*2 or 5.44 avg dmg per hit.

    So the crushing wave+corrosive salt combo put out an average of 14.74 dmg per hit.

    Keep in mind that due to the dot nature of these effects there is the chance that you lose a small portionof this dmg per hit on rare occasions due to a new proc happening before an old one ends.

    Using this info I took a avg dmg per swing comparison. First I used just the calomel against a normal mob no fire type not dragon and no resistance to cold. I used a rapier as the toon I was first looking at was going to make one.

    Assumptions: Above tested info for values of corrosive salt and crushing wave, seeker 6, improved crit, no double stacked wave or salts.

    calomelstandard := .65*(7+6+x+2.5)+.3*(2*(7+6+x+6)+2.5+4.5)+0.5e-1*35+.95*(77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4));

    x=str mod +additional dmg modifiers

    so thats 39.32800 + 1.25 x

    I then compared that to another good standard all purpose weapons the LitII rapier

    lightningII := .65*(4.5+5+x+7+3.5)+.3*(2*(4.5+5+x+6)+7+3.5+5.5+5. 5)+0.5e-1*14+610*(0.95e-1*0.15e-1);

    or 30.319250 + 1.25 x

    9 more dmg per swing on a calomel over a lit II. And the calomel has all but the cold portion of it's crushing wave dmg as untyped and unresistable. Lit II has a bunch more that's either resistable or immune to over the course of fighting different mob types.

    Thats a large enough overage that I decided to check it's generic dmg on a mob versus a very specified weapon for that same mob. So I took a +5 holy bursted greater bane rapier against it's bane type mob. Assume the mob is evil and no other dr is in play.

    holyburstgreaterbane := .65*(3.5+9+x+7+10.5)+.3*(2*(3.5+9+x+6)+7+10.5+10.5 );

    or 39.000 + 1.25 x

    So a calomel is slightly better than a +5 holy bursted greater bane when dr is not an issue.

    That was a big surprise to me. This is starting to really look good for the calomel weapons as more than just a niche dragon beater.

    Speaking of let's look at the calomel versus any dragon other than white (keep in mind it loses very little against white) with 0% fort.

    calomeldragon := .65*(7+10+x+2.5+10.5)+.3*(2*(7+10+x+6)+2.5+10.5+4. 5)+0.5e-1*35+.95*(77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4));

    or 54.30300 + 1.25 x

    That's a crazy amount for a one handed weapon. A holy bursted greater dragon bane is only the above amount of 39+1.25x.

    Velah is a little different as she has some fortification however it's not enough to make me wanna use any other weapon against her. White dragons lose .095*.02*4*34 or .2584 dmg per hit so it's still over 54.

    Another comparison is for 100% fortified mobs. So I took a look at the calomel versus 100% fortified mob no resistance to cold no fire type.

    calomelfullfort := .95*(7+6+x+2.5+77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4))+.3*4.5;

    or 30.07800 + 0.95 x


    for comparison I was looking at elemental beaters. My best elemental beater I have tested so far is a +5 risia bursted shocking bursted greater elemental bane rapier

    dualburstrisiageb := .95*(3.5+9+x+3.5+3.5+10.5)+.3*11;

    or 31.800 + 0.95 x

    That's close enough that anything less than that and the calomel is better.

    In the case of Fire elementals, both get increased dmg from the fire type creature but the elemntals have a nasty habit of casting cold protection on themselves and that stops the icy burst but not the tidal.

    I'll do some more comparisons here later on want to look at two handed as well as the khopesh non calomel versus the calomel scimitar. Looking at the numbers provided above it's most likely that the calomel scimi will top a lit II khopesh for standard generic trash but specialty crafted greater banes will beat out the calomel scimi on non dragons.

    Hope everyone finds this as eye opening as I have. Whereas before I really didn't want to grind out a pair of these for my melees just to use on evelah fights now I want a pair for any twf due to their superiority over most any generic mob. The lack of any resistance to almost all of their dmg makes them a great all around beater.
    Awesome calcs! +1! Does it work with/on the calomel wraps though? >><<! :P!: )!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by whereispowderedsilve View Post
    Awesome calcs! +1! Does it work with/on the calomel wraps though? >><<! :P!: )!
    I don't have any wraps to test but I haven't heard of anything here that is not working on wraps.

    The corrosive salt dmg numbers really enforce me wanting air tier 1 and water tier 2 for alchem wraps though.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    +1 for sharing this publically. Very surprising and relevent info that it actually beats the +5 holy burst of greater bane as well as lightning II.

    two questions:

    1. Epic SoS vs. Calomel Falchion.

    2. I know I'll be making plenty of these for Dragon. But while doing trash mob comparisons, why not just use alchemical weapons with t2 ice that have higher base damage, real burst instead of 1d4 burst, freezing ice or earthgrab, and potentially third tier sexiness? Lifedrinker is a legit reason why I might swap on Calomel sometimes, but it seems like this argument pushes more for tier 2 water on alchemical trash mob beaters than necessarily meaning that Calomel is the #1 dps weapon for two weapon fighting.
    Last edited by Anthios888; 12-15-2011 at 03:48 PM.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthios888 View Post
    +1 for sharing this publically. Very surprising and relevent info that it actually beats the +5 holy burst of greater bane as well as lightning II.

    two questions:

    1. Epic SoS vs. Calomel Falchion.

    2. I know I'll be making plenty of these for Dragon. But while doing trash mob comparisons, why not just use alchemical weapons with t2 ice that have higher base damage, real burst instead of 1d4 burst, freezing ice or earthgrab, and potentially third tier sexiness? Lifedrinker is a legit reason why I might swap on Calomel sometimes, but it seems like this argument pushes more for tier 2 water on alchemical trash mob beaters than necessarily meaning that Calomel is the #1 dps weapon for two weapon fighting.
    Working on the thf comparisons right now.

    As for alchems yes that was another comparison I was gonna work on. I like the alchems but they also can't be grinded out in a day. They actually have lower base dmg. 1d8 versus 2d6 for calomel on the rapiers and they are only +5 until tier 3 versus 6 for the calomel. At tier 3 for sure I would love to have them over calomels at tier two I think calomels will come out a bit ahead although something can be said for earthgrab/stone prison on earth tier 1 or stunning dc for stunning builds.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Working on the thf comparisons right now.

    As for alchems yes that was another comparison I was gonna work on. I like the alchems but they also can't be grinded out in a day. They actually have lower base dmg. 1d8 versus 2d6 for calomel on the rapiers and they are only +5 until tier 3 versus 6 for the calomel. At tier 3 for sure I would love to have them over calomels at tier two I think calomels will come out a bit ahead although something can be said for earthgrab/stone prison on earth tier 1 or stunning dc for stunning builds.
    Fair enough, I just know I will always pick the earthgrab and greater stone prison if I can get them vs. trash mobs on a typical melee. Any kind of stun bumps your damage up so fast and makes the salt/wave even better.
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  7. #7
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Does Scimitar beat lightning II KHOPESH? Looking like a yes but since you have the numbers handy . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Does Scimitar beat lightning II KHOPESH? Looking like a yes but since you have the numbers handy . . .
    haven't ran those yet. It probably will but scimi vs khpesh will have a different x coefficient and therefore the difference will vary depending on x.
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  9. #9

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    calomel scimi vs. litII khop vs holy burst bane

    calomelstandard := .65*(7+6+x+2.5)+.3*(2*(7+6+x+6)+2.5+4.5)+0.5e-1*35+.95*(77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4));

    or 39.32800 + 1.25 x

    litIIkhop := .75*(5.5+5+x+7+3.5)+.2*(3*(5.5+5+x+6)+7+3.5+11+11) +0.5e-1*14+610*(0.95*0.15e-1);

    or 41.54250+1.35x


    holyburstgreaterbanekhop := .75*(4.5+9+x+7+10.5)+.2*(3*(4.5+9+x+6)+7+14+10.5);

    or 41.250 + 1.35 x

    So in this case a specialized greater bane khopesh or a lit II will always be better than the calomel scimitar. Now a tier two alchem khopesh however would likely be ahead of the greater bane crafted and lit II.
    Last edited by LeLoric; 12-15-2011 at 06:57 PM. Reason: lit II numbers corrections
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    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Great post. Great info.

    At what point does the Calomel rapier pull even with or surpass the Lit2 rapier? Only at Epic?

  11. #11

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    Esos vs Calomel falchion no glancings

    Esostwitch := .65*(17.5+10+x)+.3*(3*(17.5+10+x+6));

    or 48.025 + 1.55 x


    calomelfalchiontwitch := .65*(10+6+x+2.5)+.3*(2*(10+6+x+6)+2.5+4.5)+(.95*0. 2e-1)*(6*77.5+4*68);

    or 41.32800 + 1.25 x

    not even close here and I doubted it would be glancings further push this in esos favor.

    against a dragon though it gets more even

    calomelfalchiondragon := .65*(10+10+x+2.5+10.5)+.3*(2*(10+10+x+6)+2.5+4.5+1 0.5)+0.5e-1*35+(.95*0.2e-1)*(6*77.5+4*68);

    or 58.05300 + 1.25 x


    esos overtakes the falchion at x=34 less with glancings taken into account. Thats achievable by many moderately geared dps thf char.

    So even in its best situation the calomel can't really be any better than an esos on any really even remotely ideal player.
    Last edited by LeLoric; 12-15-2011 at 04:58 PM.
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  12. #12
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    How often does Corrosive Salt proc on Epic Smallblade? Or on greensteel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Great post. Great info.

    At what point does the Calomel rapier pull even with or surpass the Lit2 rapier? Only at Epic?
    Even the tier 1 lev 20 rapier would come out as the following

    36.32800+1.25*x about 6 more dmg than a litII rapier

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    how often does corrosive salt proc on epic smallblade? Or on greensteel?
    Quote Originally Posted by leloric View Post
    couple that with information that i received about the proc rate 2% (same as wiki)
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post

    So in this case a specialized greater bane will always be better than the calomel scimitar. Now a tier two alchem khopesh however would likely be ahead of the greater bane crafted.
    Yeah ... but for mid-range crafters who can't quite hit the greaters (or for people not wanting to farm the essences) you can make one of these relatively quickly.

    It's my new "finish TR" plan for one of my toons ... challenges, challenges, challenges
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Yeah ... but for mid-range crafters who can't quite hit the greaters (or for people not wanting to farm the essences) you can make one of these relatively quickly.

    It's my new "finish TR" plan for one of my toons ... challenges, challenges, challenges
    Yeah they are easy to make and generic too so you dont have to carry around a set of greater orc banes and greater monstrous humanoids and greater aberrations and greater giant and greater xxx.

    There's also little resistance to anything on the calomel. The tidal is not water dmg and therefore unaffected by any sort of resistance/immunity. The only thing resistable is the cold dmg on the crushing wave.

    As pointed out earlier by my guild leader the alchem with water tier 2 is arguably better especially with the cc capabilities of earth or air at tier 1. Dps still remains somewhat the same however. One is just infinitely easier to acquire though.
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    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Yeah they are easy to make and generic too so you dont have to carry around a set of greater orc banes and greater monstrous humanoids and greater aberrations and greater giant and greater xxx.

    There's also little resistance to anything on the calomel. The tidal is not water dmg and therefore unaffected by any sort of resistance/immunity. The only thing resistable is the cold dmg on the crushing wave.

    As pointed out earlier by my guild leader the alchem with water tier 2 is arguably better especially with the cc capabilities of earth or air at tier 1. Dps still remains somewhat the same however. One is just infinitely easier to acquire though.
    /would rather run 20 lord of blades than grind out a tier 1 challenge item
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post

    Assumptions: Above tested info for values of corrosive salt and crushing wave, seeker 6, improved crit, no double stacked wave or salts.

    calomelstandard := .65*(7+6+x+2.5)+.3*(2*(7+6+x+6)+2.5+4.5)+0.5e-1*35+.95*(77.5*(0.2e-1*6)+68*(0.2e-1*4));

    x=str mod +additional dmg modifiers

    so thats 39.32800 + 1.25 x

    I then compared that to another good standard all purpose weapons the LitII rapier

    lightningII := .65*(4.5+5+x+7+3.5)+.3*(2*(4.5+5+x+6)+7+3.5+5.5+5. 5)+0.5e-1*14+610*(0.95e-1*0.15e-1);

    or 30.319250 + 1.25 x

    9 more dmg per swing on a calomel over a lit II. And the calomel has all but the cold portion of it's crushing wave dmg as untyped and unresistable. Lit II has a bunch more that's either resistable or immune to over the course of fighting different mob types.
    I'm getting the same for calomel, but you're lightning strike numbers seem off somewhere.

    LitII hit:
    9.5 base
    7 holy
    3.5 shock
    ---
    20 *0.65 = 13

    LitII crit:
    19 base
    12 seeker
    7 holy
    3.5 shock
    11 burst/blast
    ---
    52.5 *0.3 = 15.75

    Shocking blast
    14 * 0.05 = 0.7

    Lightning strike:
    610 @ 1.5% = 9.15 * 0.95 = 8.6925

    Total:
    13
    15.75
    0.7
    8.6925
    ----
    38.1425

    Which is very close to the ~39 of the calomel. Even a small error on either crushing wave or corrosive salt's proc rates could push the LitII ahead.
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    So if somebody were making two alchemical weapons you could make a water water water and water air water or something of that nature. Would that be the highest dps or at least one weapon with the second tier air and the other with second tier water? What is your conclusions for alchemical weapon sets?
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 12-15-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    So if somebody were making two alchemical weapons you could make a water water water and water air water or something of that nature. Would that be the highest dps or at least one weapon with the second tier air and the other with second tier water? What is your conclusions for alchemical weapon sets?
    Seems dependent on how much DPS you're doing with your mainhand whether it's better to get 6% doublestrike or the extra procs.
    Rockan Robin . Rocka Red Emma . Roq Star . RockCandy Mountain . Rockna Delaflote | Build Index
    Co-Leader, Ghallanda ReRolled
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarrant View Post
    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

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