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  1. #441
    Community Member orobold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    You can even have 1 Druid for a permanent 'Deadly Weapons' if you use a wooden quarterstaff.
    I think shilelagh will only last 1 min with 1 druid lvl.
    Wyrlax of Orien

  2. #442
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orobold View Post
    I think shilelagh will only last 1 min with 1 druid lvl.
    That could be true as well. Personally, I would never take 1 druid level but just throwing it out there for more options.

  3. #443
    Court Jester
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    Nice build, and fairly decent rogue skills. Before I tr'd into a paly to get my paly lifes done... I lr'd my int based rogue into a str based rogue. Took TWF, GTWF, and OTWF, Cleave and Greater Cleave, and stayed in LD epic destiny, which Sense Weakness, and a couple other twists, and was putting out massive DPS. Like, 300-500 on avg, and 4 digit crits, which was common.

    Was using Planar Focus: Prowess and Citw Hammer in right hand and Balizarde in left. Things died quick.

  4. #444
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Nice build, and fairly decent rogue skills. Before I tr'd into a paly to get my paly lifes done... I lr'd my int based rogue into a str based rogue. Took TWF, GTWF, and OTWF, Cleave and Greater Cleave, and stayed in LD epic destiny, which Sense Weakness, and a couple other twists, and was putting out massive DPS. Like, 300-500 on avg, and 4 digit crits, which was common.

    Was using Planar Focus: Prowess and Citw Hammer in right hand and Balizarde in left. Things died quick.
    Yea, I was killing 10000 HP kobolds with no SA damage in 9-10 seconds. All with pre-u14 gear.

  5. #445
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    I tested out the new version of enhancements on Lamannia. You're allowed to have six trees out at the same time. They also changed up the fifth tier of enhancements. Now it's a minimum of five levels needed of the same class. For example:15 Wizard/5 Rogue can have assassinate. The "core abilitys" (innate passives/abilitys) are the same (requires level 20 in same class to get capstone) Unfortunately you can only take tier five ability's in one tree. So If you choose to have a tier five ability in Assassin. You can't take a tier five ability in Acrobat. That being said, the rogue trees haven't changed a bit.

    The Sun Wukong
    The build is 13 Rogue, 6 Monk, 1 Fighter. The build is based around swinging extremely fast with quarterstaffs. With an almost permanent 57% doublestrike chance, perma haste, haste boost, and 15% more swing speed with quarterstaffs. Massive dps with good survivability.

    Racial Tree:


    Stats: 32 point build
    Str:16
    Dex:16
    Con:16
    Int:10
    Wis:8
    Cha:8

    Stats: 34 point build
    Str:17
    Dex:16
    Con:16
    Int:9
    Wis:8
    Cha:8

    Stat level ups:
    Str:5
    Con:1
    Dex:1

    Enhancements:

    (for a better image click here:http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psd2b1eff5.png)

    For the feats you have to start at Monk. Or else you'll sacrifice a feat. (1-6 monk, 7-11 rogue, 12 fighter, 13-20 rogue) All feats are in order of level.

    Feats:
    • Cleave
    • Toughness
    • Great Cleave
    • Improved Two Handed Fighting
    • Master of forms
    • Greater Two Handed Fighting
    • Grandmaster of Forms


    Monk Bonus Feats:
    • Power Attack
    • Two Handed Fighting
    • Path of harmonious balance: Fists of Light
    • Toughness, Dodge, or Precision. Your choice.


    Fighter Bonus Feat:
    • Improved Critical: bludgeoning


    Rogue Bonus Feats:
    • Opportunist
    • Improved Evasion


    Epic Feats
    • Epic Toughness
    • Improved Sneak Attack
    • Overwhelming Critical


    Sphere Feats(26 & 28):
    • Perfect THF
    • Pierce or Holy Strike(your choice!)


    Destiny:

    Defensive Passives: The passives are without any items, buffs, or destinys.
    • Passive 16% dodge
    • Permanent 25% incorporeality
    • Passive 15% healing amp
    • Passive -40% threat


    Keep in mind everything is on Lamannia. Which is subject to change.
    Last edited by Rogann; 08-16-2013 at 11:56 PM. Reason: It's a secret!

  6. #446
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Now I know this thread is all about max dps rogue builds. However I found another build with good dps and survivability.

    The Unyielding Mountain
    The build is 12 Fighter, 6 Monk, 2 pally. The build is based around being centered with any weapon of your choosing. For example, you can use a Epic Sword of Shadow in Ultimate Mountain Stance and Defensive Strikes Stance(you won't be uncentered). It has decent dps capabilities thanks to the Kensai, evasion from monk, and saves from paladin.

    Racial Tree:


    Stats: 32 point build, +4 con tome needed.
    Str:16
    Dex:13
    Con:16
    Int:13
    Wis:8
    Cha:10
    (more tomes and Reincarnates dramatically change the stat layout)

    Stat Level Ups:
    Con:1
    Str:6

    Enhancements:

    (for a better image click here:http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...psc70fb072.jpg)

    For the feats start at Fighter. (1-12 fighter, 12-18 monk, 18-20 pally) The feat build also assumes you're going to use slashing weapons for endgame.

    Racial Bonus Feat:
    • Stunning Blow


    Feats:
    • Two Handed Fighting
    • Cleave
    • Toughness
    • Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    • Greater Two Handed Fighting
    • Improved Sunder
    • Master of Forms


    Fighter Bonus:
    • Power Attack
    • Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    • Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    • Great Cleave
    • Improved Two Handed Fighting
    • Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
    • Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


    Monk Bonus:
    • Mobility
    • Combat Expertise
    • Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
    • Dodge


    Epic Feats:
    • Grandmaster of Forms
    • Overwhelming Critical
    • Epic Toughness


    Epic Destiny:
    • Legendary Dreadnaught


    Defensive passives: The passives below are without any items, buffs or twists.
    • Permanent 25% incorporeality
    • Passive 22% dodge
    • Passive 40% healing amp
    • Passive 85 PRR, 95 PRR when under 50% hp
    • Passive 75% threat generation
    • Passive 576 hp (with endgame gear 831 hp)
    • Evasion
    • Range of unconsciousness extended to -30 hp without dying


    Everything is on Lamannia, which is subject to change.
    Last edited by Rogann; 07-06-2013 at 06:05 PM.

  7. #447
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Just checked out Lam. Taking level 26 and 28 (level 27 grants normal/epic feats) grants mini-destiny feats. Getting the mini-destiny feats requires you to max out a destiny in the required sphere. There's four spheres. Arcane, divine, martial, and primal. In addition to the four spheres there's also an epic spellpower group. I'll list off the best mini-feats for max dps and the sun wukong build.

    Pierce: adamantine, byeshk, silver or cold iron. (weapon bypasses said reduction, can only choose one)-martial sphere, 1 maxed destiny

    Elusive target: 5% chance to ignore all physical damage (even spells that do physical damage)-martial sphere, 2 maxed destiny's

    First Blood: 5d20 extra untyped damage when enemy is above 90% health. Can only happen every 3 secs-martial sphere, 2 maxed destiny's

    Holy Strike: Weapon gains ghost touch. 10d6 untyped damage on vorpal against evil enemies-divine sphere, 1 maxed destiny

    Perfect Two Handed Fighting: +10% glanceing blow damage, +10% chance to proc weapon effects-primal sphere, 1 maxed destiny

    Perfect Two Weapon Fighting: +5% doublestrike, +10% off-hand doublestrike-primal sphere, 1 maxed destiny

    Toughness -no requirements

    Perfect THF, and TWF will be the first picks. Holy strike and pierce will be the second choices. Everything else is pretty bad. Keep in mind these are from Lamannia, so everyone is subject to change.
    Last edited by Rogann; 08-11-2013 at 11:02 PM.

  8. #448
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Adding 1 fighter instead of 7 monk does indeed give you an extra feat! 7 monk gives nothing any ways. Now I know its a complicated leveling process but it works!

    For the feats you have to start at Monk. Or else you'll sacrifice a feat. (1-6 monk, 7-11 rogue, 12 fighter, 13-20 rogue) All feats are in order of level.

    Racial Bonus Feat:
    • Half-elf Dilettante: Fighter


    Feats:
    • Cleave
    • Toughness
    • Great Cleave
    • Improved Two Handed Fighting
    • Master of forms
    • Greater Two Handed Fighting
    • Grandmaster of Forms


    Monk Bonus Feats:
    • Power Attack
    • Two Handed Fighting
    • Path of harmonious balance: Fists of Light
    • Toughness, Dodge, or Precision. Your choice.


    Fighter Bonus Feat:
    • Improved Critical: bludgeoning


    Rogue Bonus Feats:
    • Opportunist
    • Improved Evasion


    Epic Feats
    • Epic Toughness
    • Improved Sneak Attack
    • Overwhelming Critical


    Sphere Feats(26 & 28):
    • Perfect THF
    • Pierce or Holy Strike(your choice!)
    Last edited by Rogann; 08-21-2013 at 11:08 PM.

  9. #449
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Did some more testing on Lam. Specifically killing hundreds of 10000 hp kobolds. I've come to the conclusion that PURE ROGUE ISN'T A VIABLE DPS CHOICE any more. It was a fun two years of playing this build. All the memories of dps challenges with guildies on part two of ToD. Sun Wukong build is just too good. I'll be putting a big warning before this build post begins. I won't be updating this thread any more!

    Sun Wukong build is finally complete. When U19 hits I'll be making the build post.
    Last edited by Rogann; 08-16-2013 at 11:15 PM.

  10. #450
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Did some more testing on Lam. Specifically killing hundreds of 10000 hp kobolds. I've come to the conclusion that PURE ROGUE ISN'T A VIABLE DPS CHOICE any more. It was a fun two years of playing this build. All the memories of dps challenges with guildies on part two of ToD. Sun Wukong build is just too good. I'll be putting a big warning before this build post begins. I won't be updating this thread any more!

    Sun Wukong build is finally complete. When U19 hits I'll be making the build post.
    Not a viable dps choice? Fairly certain you can still insta kill stuff and you still do a ton of damage. Best part about pure rogue now is you can go twf+OC and double up on Acrobat and Assassin for the cleave fighting bonuses while still being able to use celestia/balizarde/nightmare/lootgen of your choice. Pure rogue will always be a viable choice just as pure wizard dc caster and any dc build would be.

    I mean mine's not been pure once in her life, but even with only a 2 monk splash I don't feel like I'm ever lagging behind in any content (always battling the barbs for top spot on kills. Single target stuns vs cleave-tarding idjit is quite fun)

  11. #451
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Not a viable dps choice? Fairly certain you can still insta kill stuff and you still do a ton of damage. Best part about pure rogue now is you can go twf+OC and double up on Acrobat and Assassin for the cleave fighting bonuses while still being able to use celestia/balizarde/nightmare/lootgen of your choice. Pure rogue will always be a viable choice just as pure wizard dc caster and any dc build would be.

    I mean mine's not been pure once in her life, but even with only a 2 monk splash I don't feel like I'm ever lagging behind in any content (always battling the barbs for top spot on kills. Single target stuns vs cleave-tarding idjit is quite fun)
    Building a pure rogue specifically for dps isn't viable any more. Same goes for most melee builds. As for Int rogues, the new content needs a 75-80 DC to insta kill on EE iirc. Good luck getting that high of a DC. The reason I didn't post the Sun Wukong build is melees are obsolete. I didn't want to mislead anyone into the build. Shiradi sorc is the best build now. My melee toons will be collecting dust for a very long time.

  12. #452
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Building a pure rogue specifically for dps isn't viable any more. Same goes for most melee builds. As for Int rogues, the new content needs a 75-80 DC to insta kill on EE iirc. Good luck getting that high of a DC. The reason I didn't post the Sun Wukong build is melees are obsolete. I didn't want to mislead anyone into the build. Shiradi sorc is the best build now. My melee toons will be collecting dust for a very long time.
    You say rogues aren't viable DPS choice, and then state Shiradi Sorcs are the best build?
    What is this I don't even.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  13. #453
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    You say rogues aren't viable DPS choice, and then state Shiradi Sorcs are the best build?
    What is this I don't even.
    What are you confused about?

  14. #454
    Community Member MalarKan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Building a pure rogue specifically for dps isn't optimal for epic elite content anymore
    fixed that for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    As for Int rogues, the new content needs a 75-80 DC to insta kill on EE iirc. Good luck getting that high of a DC.

    Theers also traps and hidden doors in EE wheloon and Stormhorns, you know. I know someone int based that couldnt disable or find hidden doors or traps there... but he was still lacking like a +11 to his int skills from special and exceptional bonuses... anyways, you've always had been missusing words in this thread, like stating rogue builds are not "viable" and never stoping to consider that if a certain build is not "optimal" that doesnt mean its gimped or not viable.

    Actually, thanks to enhancements pass now there are not THE optimal builds anymore, you can make so many variations and take enhancements in so much different ways from various classes that you can go different paths, and still have plenty of viable builds. My rogue is still pure cus i want to, its still lvl 24 but is very viable for epic elite content. if i were to splash it, yeah, i would take 6 monk levels but i would take 1 cleric level instaed of fighter. Because if you really want to make epic elite survivability ubilds, consider a better self heal than just heal scrolls... for now, nothing beats Rejuv. Cocoon on a melee.

    And im glad you are not updating this build anymore, its now only one of the "Max dps rogue build" anyways
    Cisko from Argonessen: Prodigious Lord of Shadows, Master Locksmith and Deadly Firedancer
    (6th pure rogue life and counting)
    Long LiveR.O.G.U.E.

  15. #455
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    What are you confused about?
    I'm confused as to why you think Rogues are no longer a Viable DPS option.
    I'm even more confused as to why you think Shiradi Sorcs are the best build now.

    Neither of these things is even remotely true, hence the confusion.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  16. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    I'm confused as to why you think Rogues are no longer a Viable DPS option.
    I'm even more confused as to why you think Shiradi Sorcs are the best build now.

    Neither of these things is even remotely true, hence the confusion.
    Unfortunately, he's absolutely correct for EE content.

  17. #457
    Hero
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Unfortunately, he's absolutely correct for EE content.
    You folks are running with the wrong crowd with the wrong builds. As a past Shiradi user on my sorc, I have switched to DI. It's much more effective. ANd I have friends who run Rogues exclusively and they still rock on EE (that's about all I run when not TR'ing). So just because you can't seem to make them work for you, that doesn't make them useless for every player (even in EE).

  18. #458
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    As for Int rogues, the new content needs a 75-80 DC to insta kill on EE iirc. Good luck getting that high of a DC.
    1) This is absolutely false. All you need is 70.

    2) It is much easier to get to 70 DC.

    18 Int
    5 Lvl
    11 Item
    5 tome
    5 enhancement
    1 epic feat
    +3 insight
    +1 Exceptional
    +2 capstone
    -------------------------
    51
    3 Epic destiny
    +2 ship
    --------------------------
    56 standing INT (+23)

    Assassinate DC:

    DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier

    10 + 20 + 23 + 6 Destiny + 5 Measure the foe + 2 Epic Midnight Greetings = 66 standing DC.


    This is the DC of a NON-MAX Int rogue. Only 5 levels, only 3 from ED, 1 Great Int. Add: 2 levels, 3 ED, 1 Great Int = 6 more int = 69 Assassinate DC

    You can now add:

    +3 from Action Surge Int

    for a 71 DC.


    Realisticly talking, 66 is the DC for a good mix of DPS and Instakill Rogue. 66 lets you kill most of the mobs. Don't forget that if you go for a high int, you might as well get Consume in the Shadowdancer if you use that ED.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  19. #459
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Unfortunately, he's absolutely correct for EE content.
    No, no he's not. Ran some EE's with the assassination rogues and they were doing just fine taking out the baddies. My rogue stuns thing, and with a 64dc she was running with I was seeing it go off quite a lot on all sorts of different enemies (I'm going to assume the Blackguard are the hardiest of the new EE badguys, followed by the Orc Beserkers. Have to attempt them on EE though, only done EH so far of the Storm Horns)

    One thing though that needs to be said:

    Rogann, you've finally realized that building for Max DPS on a Rogue is far from being optimal. In fact, your build hasn't been optimal since U14 came out. Since the first xpac the game has shifted focus more towards building less around full retard dps, and more around versatility and personal survival. Sh*t starts to hit the fan? Pop ICD/displace/Meld and get out of there quick. Big group of baddies? Sneak in, bluff pull them out. This goes double for the Assassins, with those sadistic swinging chains of theirs. All trap dc's went up, hell I'm seriously regretting starting with 8 int on my rogue. Acrobat now has a focus on tactical dc's with their dex, especially with the aoe trip attack. If that mob is knocked down, it's less of a threat to the party.

    And that's what you have to realize. It's not about max dps anymore. Hell, with the setup of the new chains it's more about team play than it is about soloing. Look at the last update, when they redid GH. They removed Crucible from the flagging quests, replaced it with Cabal. Why? Because it's easier to solo Cabal. Want to try your hand at a much greater challenge? The Stormreaver has different dialogues depending on the number of people in party for the raid. Yet look at what we have now. They raised dc's on traps, making it much harder for someone with just basic trapping skills (2 rogue splash/non int based rogues) meaning you kind of need a rogue because some of those traps are just absolutely brutal. Again, the Shadar-Kai Assassins with their wonderful swinging blades have wiped plenty of parties that weren't paying attention. So now you need some form of CC, be it stuns, web, dancing balls or hold monster. There are plenty of times that I seriously wish I had some kind of ranged capabilities on my rogue, giving an edge to Artificers and Mechanics. Also, now that we can dual spec our prestiges the Mechassassin build seems incredibly viable even if it is more of a back lines support build.

    Also, don't get me started on Shiradi Sorcs. First off, Wizards are more powerful when it comes to Shiradi and secondly, Shiradi actually isn't all that much dps comparatively to say, a blitzing Juggernaut or a blitzing Fighter on the melee side and a Draconic Sorc on the Caster side. It's not the most dps, but it is useful dps with the Nerve Venom and all the random procs. It's also extremely easy to build and gear for meaning that it's more of the poor man's TR Draco Sorc (or Draco Lich Wizard, which I personally think would be more fun)

  20. #460
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    1) This is absolutely false. All you need is 70.

    2) It is much easier to get to 70 DC.

    18 Int
    5 Lvl
    11 Item
    5 tome
    5 enhancement
    1 epic feat
    +3 insight
    +1 Exceptional
    +2 capstone
    -------------------------
    51
    3 Epic destiny
    +2 ship
    --------------------------
    56 standing INT (+23)

    Assassinate DC:

    DC 10 + Rogue Level + Int Modifier

    10 + 20 + 23 + 6 Destiny + 5 Measure the foe + 2 Epic Midnight Greetings = 66 standing DC.


    This is the DC of a NON-MAX Int rogue. Only 5 levels, only 3 from ED, 1 Great Int. Add: 2 levels, 3 ED, 1 Great Int = 6 more int = 69 Assassinate DC

    You can now add:

    +3 from Action Surge Int

    for a 71 DC.


    Realisticly talking, 66 is the DC for a good mix of DPS and Instakill Rogue. 66 lets you kill most of the mobs. Don't forget that if you go for a high int, you might as well get Consume in the Shadowdancer if you use that ED.
    Realistically speaking 66 won't land regularly on average mobs(orc archers, gnolls). Forgot about giants and beserkers. The dps would be pitiful. Mobs are hitting for 250+. I honestly don't see the point in rolling a rogue unless you like doing EH content. If you're through the trouble of completely maxing int, just build a palemaster.

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