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  1. #21
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    When it comes to rogues I think horc is overrated. You NEED to go max STR cause otherwise there is no point creating a horc rogue, unless u don't take PA enhancements. But then again, why would u not take it as it's 2nd best enhancement line horcs have.

    Max dps = human/helf. Human probably better cause of extra feat and helf dillies ain't that great and cost some APs. End of story.

    I've been always wondering why people put redscale armors on their rogues, apart from the obvious *bling bling*. I know, 2 slots, sup fire res, incineration - nothing spectacular (with all that epic gear you'll have more than enough slots to augment w/e you want and i wouldn't pay any attention to guards unless you are tanking). I'd rather have the ease of swapping DT armors in an instant than to be tied to only one armor. There are just so many good choices to customise them: heal amp/GFL/heavy fort/resistance +5/some guards/tharnes, depending on your other gear.

    Another thing is Nyoko set, if u have Tharnes or any other Backstabbing item this set gives u only 20% less threat and takes 2 very important slots. Kyosho/Veriks sets are much much better than this one or epic stalker ring + some necklace.

    About threat, if u pug a lot it would be better for u to have as much reduction as u can get. But if you are going to run mainly with guild/friends and have threat reducing items, not to mention improved diplo and bluff, i don't see a need to max SB. When i go all-out on my decked out assassin (tharne's set + SB III = 44%) i usually hit bluff, damage + haste boosts and diplo once off timer. I rarely grab aggro that way, granted they upped fort greatly and i don't pug many raids nowadays.

    Now HPs, i guess those 580hp is your max possible without significantly gimping your DPS.You'd be better off dropping one/two abishai pieces and getting gs hp item instead. DDO pot? Meh. Yugo pot? That shouldn't even be in a thread about "MAX DPS". Not having Toughness or GS hp item really hurts (it's almost 90hp combined). With the changes to bosses' fort and hps u need more hp yourself as healers won't spam heals and chug sp pots for you.

    Edit: @ Qezuzu While it's not an issue on 0-50% fort mobs and raid bosses, it really becomes one while fighting 80-100% ones like Lailat, LoB, Abbot who happen to have decent-high AC. High fort and high AC -> less SA -> more regular attacks -> less to-hit -> more misses -> less DPS.
    Last edited by brzytki; 11-30-2011 at 12:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Did Einstein solo eLoB without pots or what?
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  2. #22
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Please note that Rogues are not proficient with Scimitars. (Unless they are Elves, or Helves with the fighter dilly.) So you will either have the same penalty as with Khopeshes, or it will cost you another feat.
    Plz note you can scroll masters touch. Do it for etimeblades everytime.

  3. #23
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Plz note you can scroll masters touch. Do it for etimeblades everytime.
    I must admit I forgot about that. Sorry if my post came across somewhat unpleasant.

    Personally, I couldn't be bothered with Master's Touch. I already felt annoyed by casting MT on a THF bard with no proficiency after every shrine usage. But then, that's a matter of personal preference.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
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  4. #24
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    To-hit is not an issue for rogues. Not only can BAB be artificially increased, rogues are the most likely to be flanking, most likely to have the bonus from Tharne's, have +4 to SA accuracy from enhancements, and SoS is another +5 when active. I can hit epic Turigalon and Malicia on a 2 at the beginning of my attack sequence, without Destruction or sunder, and with PA and oversized penalty.
    Yea when your SA your to-hit is high. I was talking about when u pull aggro(happens every time in equests) once u loose the SA it's hard to hit.

  5. #25
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    I must admit I forgot about that. Sorry if my post came across somewhat unpleasant.

    Personally, I couldn't be bothered with Master's Touch. I already felt annoyed by casting MT on a THF bard with no proficiency after every shrine usage. But then, that's a matter of personal preference.
    Lol it's all good, I was joking around myself continuing that "plz note" thing.

  6. #26
    Community Member Rydin_Dirtay's Avatar
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    Rogann nice full-on STR based half orc Rogue Assassin build. Yours does what you like it to do.

    You said you'd rather take yours into epics than some other build types. Well, I say why not have it all? A Rogue that has 3% less dps than yours has, but in sports a 40-ish Assassinate DC, and a 40-ish UMD.

    You could get that with your Half-Orc with a little fiddling and 34/36 points. He would still be BRUTAL when fury'ed up and rolling. Yet have a bit more speciality stuff going on (Assassinate and UMD and Scroll use etc.).
    Khyber:Greenberry, Jemric, Qashta, Leuk, Thurradal + many others

  7. #27
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    When it comes to rogues I think horc is overrated. You NEED to go max STR cause otherwise there is no point creating a horc rogue, unless u don't take PA enhancements. But then again, why would u not take it as it's 2nd best enhancement line horcs have.

    Max dps = human/helf. Human probably better cause of extra feat and helf dillies ain't that great and cost some APs. End of story.

    I've been always wondering why people put redscale armors on their rogues, apart from the obvious *bling bling*. I know, 2 slots, sup fire res, incineration - nothing spectacular (with all that epic gear you'll have more than enough slots to augment w/e you want and i wouldn't pay any attention to guards unless you are tanking). I'd rather have the ease of swapping DT armors in an instant than to be tied to only one armor. There are just so many good choices to customise them: heal amp/GFL/heavy fort/resistance +5/some guards/tharnes, depending on your other gear.

    Another thing is Nyoko set, if u have Tharnes or any other Backstabbing item this set gives u only 20% less threat and takes 2 very important slots. Kyosho/Veriks sets are much much better than this one or epic stalker ring + some necklace.

    About threat, if u pug a lot it would be better for u to have as much reduction as u can get. But if you are going to run mainly with guild/friends and have threat reducing items, not to mention improved diplo and bluff, i don't see a need to max SB. When i go all-out on my decked out assassin (tharne's set + SB III = 44%) i usually hit bluff, damage + haste boosts and diplo once off timer. I rarely grab aggro that way, granted they upped fort greatly and i don't pug many raids nowadays.

    Now HPs, i guess those 580hp is your max possible without significantly gimping your DPS.You'd be better off dropping one/two abishai pieces and getting gs hp item instead. DDO pot? Meh. Yugo pot? That shouldn't even be in a thread about "MAX DPS". Not having Toughness or GS hp item really hurts (it's almost 90hp combined). With the changes to bosses' fort and hps u need more hp yourself as healers won't spam heals and chug sp pots for you.

    Edit: @ Qezuzu While it's not an issue on 0-50% fort mobs and raid bosses, it really becomes one while fighting 80-100% ones like Lailat, LoB, Abbot who happen to have decent-high AC. High fort and high AC -> less SA -> more regular attacks -> less to-hit -> more misses -> less DPS.
    Redscales for flaming burst. Rest is pretty much useless. The slots can be very nice, and I guess it looks nice.

    IMO my hp is decent, even 550 is great for most epic stuff.

    Yea I stated 100% fort scares me, however someone said wrack construct makes rogues less gimp in leet/epic lob.

  8. #28
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin_Dirtay View Post
    Rogann nice full-on STR based half orc Rogue Assassin build. Yours does what you like it to do.

    You said you'd rather take yours into epics than some other build types. Well, I say why not have it all? A Rogue that has 3% less dps than yours has, but in sports a 40-ish Assassinate DC, and a 40-ish UMD.

    You could get that with your Half-Orc with a little fiddling and 34/36 points. He would still be BRUTAL when fury'ed up and rolling. Yet have a bit more speciality stuff going on (Assassinate and UMD and Scroll use etc.).
    Int/dex rogues are best in quests, insta killing and paralyzing mobs. However rather take my build when doing raids. My build is a boss beater and the kind of play style of a barbarian I guess you could say.

  9. #29
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    Nice build!!

    what's stats for HElf (36 points) str based? and maybe same int for assassinate DC?
    i have to TR soon : 1 pastlife:monk 2 pastlife:fighter. khop user ^^

    If same1 can post a build ll be appreciate

    Soz about my english...

    tvm.

  10. #30
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Redscales for flaming burst. Rest is pretty much useless. The slots can be very nice, and I guess it looks nice.

    IMO my hp is decent, even 550 is great for most epic stuff.
    Ah, flaming burst - forgot about that. It's nice while questing but there are just too many mobs resistant/immune to fire at end-game for it to be worth it IMO. Slots... let's count them:
    Green: 3
    Colorless: 1
    Yellow: 3
    add 1 Blue and 1 Colorless from redscale armor
    Now i'd like to see what would go in those 9 slots. I'd guess Toughness/Heavy fort/GL in Greens, Disease Immunity/GFL in Yellow. That leaves 1 Blue/Green, 1 Yellow and 2 Colorless. Unless you really need all those slots for +6 stat or +1 exc stat i don't see any use for them.

    Yeah, 550hp is great but you have to count in -5% melee attack speed penalty from yugo pot and being madstoned, so no clickies/scrolls. While the latter is not an issue in boss beatdowns, the former hurts your DPS much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Did Einstein solo eLoB without pots or what?
    Guild: Captain's Crew
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  11. #31
    Community Member Rydin_Dirtay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Int/dex rogues are best in quests, insta killing and paralyzing mobs. However rather take my build when doing raids. My build is a boss beater and the kind of play style of a barbarian I guess you could say.
    I didn't say anything about INT/DEX Rogues.
    Khyber:Greenberry, Jemric, Qashta, Leuk, Thurradal + many others

  12. #32
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin_Dirtay View Post
    I didn't say anything about INT/DEX Rogues.
    Then i am rather confused sir.

  13. #33
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    I had a Hord assassin III kopesh rogue life on my main and he was nasty. Really enjoyed the build and the DPS was incredible. Horc is certainly a race I would go with again.

  14. #34
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    Ah, flaming burst - forgot about that. It's nice while questing but there are just too many mobs resistant/immune to fire at end-game for it to be worth it IMO. Slots... let's count them:
    Green: 3
    Colorless: 1
    Yellow: 3
    add 1 Blue and 1 Colorless from redscale armor
    Now i'd like to see what would go in those 9 slots. I'd guess Toughness/Heavy fort/GL in Greens, Disease Immunity/GFL in Yellow. That leaves 1 Blue/Green, 1 Yellow and 2 Colorless. Unless you really need all those slots for +6 stat or +1 exc stat i don't see any use for them.

    Yeah, 550hp is great but you have to count in -5% melee attack speed penalty from yugo pot and being madstoned, so no clickies/scrolls. While the latter is not an issue in boss beatdowns, the former hurts your DPS much.
    Slots so far:
    Helm:GFL
    Robe:Good Luck +2,+1 exceptional con
    Bracers:Heavy Fort
    Boots: +1 Exceptional INT/WIS
    Gloves: +6 dex
    Cloak:Toughness
    (Most of the exceptionals are so i can get an even score, whats wrong with more hp/trap skills/will saves?)

    Only got 1 yellow slot on the egem, seems eravens sight dosent have a slot -.-. Dosent matter though, dont think ima put anything on the gem as of now.

    Dont worry, i dont forget the -5% attack speed. Most of the time i only drink str potions .
    Last edited by Rogann; 11-30-2011 at 06:15 PM.

  15. #35
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Then i am rather confused sir.
    Stay Str-based, but don't neglect Int totally.

    Dump Str a bit, use a +3 Dex tome, and put a decent amount of stat points into int. You'd sacrifice at most one Str-bracket and gain a good int-score.

    For instance:
    11 base (5 build points, which is 19 starting STR, and 14 starting DEX)
    3 tome
    2 capstone
    2 ship
    6 item
    ---
    24 int = +8 mod

    Assassinate DC:
    10 base
    8 int
    20 levels
    2 EMG (you can even slot the int into the red slot, if you want to)
    ---
    40 DC.

    This is of course just an example which is tweakable to your needs. Still, you sacrifice so little, but you gain so much.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 11-30-2011 at 06:16 PM.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We may or may not intentionally insert in red herrings, purple mackerels, or horses of different colors. Void where prohibited. Not available in all planes of existence.

  16. #36
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Stay Str-based, but don't neglect Int totally.

    Dump Str a bit, use a +3 Dex tome, and put a decent amount of stat points into int. You'd sacrifice at most one Str-bracket and gain a good int-score.

    For instance:
    11 base (5 build points, which is 19 starting STR, and 14 starting DEX)
    3 tome
    2 capstone
    2 ship
    6 item
    ---
    24 int = +8 mod

    Assassinate DC:
    10 base
    8 int
    20 levels
    2 EMG (you can even slot the int into the red slot, if you want to)
    ---
    40 DC.

    This is of course just an example which is tweakable to your needs. Still, you sacrifice so little, but you gain so much.
    Interesting, might look into this for the future.

  17. #37
    Community Member Bufo_Alvarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post

    For instance:
    11 base (5 build points, which is 19 starting STR, and 14 starting DEX)
    3 tome
    2 capstone
    2 ship
    6 item
    ---
    24 int = +8 mod

    Assassinate DC:
    10 base
    8 int
    20 levels
    2 EMG (you can even slot the int into the red slot, if you want to)
    ---
    40 DC.
    You can also add a 7 int robe with a 1 excep slotted. Thats my plan anyways.

  18. #38
    Community Member Rydin_Dirtay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Interesting, might look into this for the future.

    Yes that is what I meant. You can tweak your guy just a little to gain so much. Especially with a 34 or 36 point build.
    Khyber:Greenberry, Jemric, Qashta, Leuk, Thurradal + many others

  19. #39
    Community Member destiny4405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Hmm well 32 con with toughness and gfl. I personally went 16 con base and ate a +3 con tome. And it's me Gimpforlife from good old Sarlona hehe

    Oh, it's a bit to late for me to get GS, I'd only gain 15hp at the loss of the helm and bracers resulting in a total waste of epic tokens.
    i thought of you when i saw the build well, i know from first hand that you don't have problems with hp

    i understand you for slots. it becomes really boring farming epic tokens

    btw, how is dual wielding epic kronzaks get you toughnesses? are you gonna drop khopesh prof or did i miss something?
    Jesus saves. Everyone else rounds to nearest 5%.

    Sarlona: Nafaka[Rogue] Nandu[Monk] Neotheny[Wizard]
    Bullet Fist Tony My rogue's build

  20. #40
    Community Member destiny4405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    LOL

    well, while you are busy beating down devils and orothons in say, eDA, an int based assassin is one-shoting them, and often two at a time. All while still doing 80% or so the dps this build offers up on bosses and 100% fort mobs. Figure that into your DPS calculator and the int based comes out WAY ahead. I think the int based is much more fun to play. A build like this is better done and will get better results by going fighter or barb, IMO, because this build just seems to play out more like a front line fighter instead of the classic sneaky role of a rogue, which for me is the whole point of going rogue!
    different people like different things. some like insta killing, some like big numbers.



    i like later
    Jesus saves. Everyone else rounds to nearest 5%.

    Sarlona: Nafaka[Rogue] Nandu[Monk] Neotheny[Wizard]
    Bullet Fist Tony My rogue's build

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