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  1. #21
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    When it comes to rogues I think horc is overrated. You NEED to go max STR cause otherwise there is no point creating a horc rogue, unless u don't take PA enhancements. But then again, why would u not take it as it's 2nd best enhancement line horcs have.

    Max dps = human/helf. Human probably better cause of extra feat and helf dillies ain't that great and cost some APs. End of story.

    I've been always wondering why people put redscale armors on their rogues, apart from the obvious *bling bling*. I know, 2 slots, sup fire res, incineration - nothing spectacular (with all that epic gear you'll have more than enough slots to augment w/e you want and i wouldn't pay any attention to guards unless you are tanking). I'd rather have the ease of swapping DT armors in an instant than to be tied to only one armor. There are just so many good choices to customise them: heal amp/GFL/heavy fort/resistance +5/some guards/tharnes, depending on your other gear.

    Another thing is Nyoko set, if u have Tharnes or any other Backstabbing item this set gives u only 20% less threat and takes 2 very important slots. Kyosho/Veriks sets are much much better than this one or epic stalker ring + some necklace.

    About threat, if u pug a lot it would be better for u to have as much reduction as u can get. But if you are going to run mainly with guild/friends and have threat reducing items, not to mention improved diplo and bluff, i don't see a need to max SB. When i go all-out on my decked out assassin (tharne's set + SB III = 44%) i usually hit bluff, damage + haste boosts and diplo once off timer. I rarely grab aggro that way, granted they upped fort greatly and i don't pug many raids nowadays.

    Now HPs, i guess those 580hp is your max possible without significantly gimping your DPS.You'd be better off dropping one/two abishai pieces and getting gs hp item instead. DDO pot? Meh. Yugo pot? That shouldn't even be in a thread about "MAX DPS". Not having Toughness or GS hp item really hurts (it's almost 90hp combined). With the changes to bosses' fort and hps u need more hp yourself as healers won't spam heals and chug sp pots for you.

    Edit: @ Qezuzu While it's not an issue on 0-50% fort mobs and raid bosses, it really becomes one while fighting 80-100% ones like Lailat, LoB, Abbot who happen to have decent-high AC. High fort and high AC -> less SA -> more regular attacks -> less to-hit -> more misses -> less DPS.
    Last edited by brzytki; 11-30-2011 at 12:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Did Einstein solo eLoB without pots or what?
    Guild: Captain's Crew
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  2. #22
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Please note that Rogues are not proficient with Scimitars. (Unless they are Elves, or Helves with the fighter dilly.) So you will either have the same penalty as with Khopeshes, or it will cost you another feat.
    Plz note you can scroll masters touch. Do it for etimeblades everytime.

  3. #23
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Plz note you can scroll masters touch. Do it for etimeblades everytime.
    I must admit I forgot about that. Sorry if my post came across somewhat unpleasant.

    Personally, I couldn't be bothered with Master's Touch. I already felt annoyed by casting MT on a THF bard with no proficiency after every shrine usage. But then, that's a matter of personal preference.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    To-hit is not an issue for rogues. Not only can BAB be artificially increased, rogues are the most likely to be flanking, most likely to have the bonus from Tharne's, have +4 to SA accuracy from enhancements, and SoS is another +5 when active. I can hit epic Turigalon and Malicia on a 2 at the beginning of my attack sequence, without Destruction or sunder, and with PA and oversized penalty.
    Yea when your SA your to-hit is high. I was talking about when u pull aggro(happens every time in equests) once u loose the SA it's hard to hit.

  5. #25
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    EDIT: This is the Update 13 version. Changes from Update 10 include Human becoming the new highest dps rogue race thanks to Update 11 giving the Human Versatility: Damage Boost a percentage damage increase (25%) instead of the static damage amount (+5). A bunch of new max dps gear and unfortunately massive nerfs limiting rogues to select raids and difficulties.

    RACE:
    Human
    *Pure rogue level 20*

    ALIGNMENT:
    True Neutral

    STATS: 32 POINT BUILD
    Str 18
    Dex 15
    Con 15
    Int 8
    Wis 8
    Cha 8

    NOTE: Requires +2 Dex tome. Raise Con to 16 if 34 point build. Put rest into Int if 36 point build. You cannot put Dex to 14 even if you have a +3 dex tome as you are unable to choose a viable feat with your bonus feat.

    STAT LEVEL-UPS:
    All into Strength (5)

    FEATS:
    • Two Weapon Fighting
    • Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    • Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    • Quickdraw
    • Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    • Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    • Power Attack
    • Past Life: Sneak of Shadows (Toughness or Oversized Two Weapon Fighting if you don't have)

    ROGUE FEATS:
    • Opportunist
    • Skill Mastery
    • Improved Evasion
    • Skill Mastery

    NOTE: The feats listed above aren't in order. Simply choose the ones you prefer whilst leveling. You do however have to choose Power Attack and Two Weapon Fighting as your first two feats. Oversized Two Weapon Fighting removes the -2 to-hit penalty from using a heavy off-hand weapon. Nothing to laugh at. You basically gain +2 to-hit with both hands.

    ENHANCEMENTS:
    ASSASSIN 3 PRE REQS:
    • Improved Hide 2
    • Improved Move Silenty 2
    • SA Accuracy 4
    • SA Training 4
    • Subtle Backstabbing 1
    • Rogue Damage Boost 2

    ALL ENHANCEMENTS:
    • Improved Hide 2
    • Improved Move Silenty 2
    • Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery 2
    • Human Improved Recovery 1
    • SA Accuracy 4
    • SA Training 4
    • Subtle Backstabbing 4
    • Rogue Damage Boost 2
    • Rogue Haste Boost 4
    • Rogue Deadly Shadow (capstone, 4d6 SA damage/+2 int)
    • Human Versatility 4
    • Human Adaptability Strength or Constitution 1 (choose the opposite of what +4 Con or Str tome you have)
    • Rogue Extra Action Boost 2
    • Rogue Assassin 3

    SKILLS:
    • Disable Device
    • Open Lock
    • Search
    • UMD

    NOTE: Rest are up to you (I go for jump, balance and concentration).

    GEAR:
    NOTE: This gear layout is the most optimal set up for Str Rogues.
    • Helm: Epic Helm of the Red Dragon
    • Necklace: Golden Guile
    • Trinket: See below in 'Gear Notes'
    • Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
    • Belt: Colethenis's Belt
    • Ring 1: Epic Ring of the Stalker
    • Ring 2: Ring of The Ravager (+2 Exceptional Str)
    • Gloves: Epic Charged Gauntlets
    • Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion
    • Bracers: Min 2 Green Steel (45 hp/heavyfort/protection +5)
    • Armor: Dragontouched (slotted with Tharnes Wrath or Destruction) or Epic Red Dragonhide Armor
    • Goggles: Tharne's Goggles

    WEAPONS:
    • NO DR: Main Hand: Lit 2 Khopesh Off Hand: Alchemical Khopesh (triple air)
    • DR: Main Hand: Alchemical Khopesh (triple air) Off Hand: Holy silver of GEOB or Appropriate DR breakers

    GEAR NOTES:
    • Trinkets: If you miss an enemy on any roll besides a 1 use Cannith crafted Trinket with +4 to-hit. If the enemy has Electric Resistance or Evasion use Litany of the Dead. If the enemy does not have Electric Resistance or Evasion use Greater Bold Trinket. If you have died and lost your ship buffs use Greater Bold Trinket.
    • Best in slot Armor: Redscale Armor has very limited uses. It’s only really good in quests but that’s where threat reduction is needed the most. In raids the threat reduction isnt needed as much but the majority of bosses are fire immune. Generally I’d use the destruction rune in raids and the Tharnes in quests. The only scenario where I would use Redscale is if my group had a tank capable of holding aggro in quests.
    • Weapon Clarification: The Lit 2 Main and Alchemical triple air Off Hand beats out the Lit 2 Off Hand mostly due to the 6% Doublestrike. Note that having an Alchemical in the main hand or even duel wielding Alchemicals has lower dps. Epic Kron'zek's Cruelty may actually be the best in slot off-hand as of Update 13. More info here.
    • Welfare Weapons While researching if Alchemical Weapons beat out Lit 2 I came across an interesting find. The level 16 Tier 3 Elemental Khopesh of Water with Holy/Bleeding slotted is pretty close to Lit 2's and Alchemical weapons. If you dont feel like running 40+ shrouds or farm Epic Lob this is a great alternative. Click here for more info.
    • Shintao Monk ToD set vs Golden Guile/Stalker Ring: ToD set gives 2.9 damage a swing. Golden Guile/Stalker Ring gives 5 damage a swing with the Manslayer proc alone.
    • Augment Slots: Will have to slot Greater False Life, Toughness, +1 Exceptional Con, +2 luck bonus, Fear Immunity and others depending on your preference.
    • Ghostly: The Ghostly from Epic Ring of the Stalker is actually a 20% concealment bonus (same as Blur). The description is bugged.
    • Trap Gear: You'll need a UMD, +6 int, +20 search, +15 disable/openlock items. (I used Epic Kundarak Delving Goggles with +6 Int slotted and Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass for the UMD and +20 search if it was needed)
    • Resists: 30 acid/lightning, 40 fire perma resists
    • Unbuffed Stats: Unfortunately I do not have a screenshot of the new gear or as a Human. Human would be at 40 Strength, 28 Constitution and 425 hp 100% unbuffed.



    RACE DPS COMPARISON UPDATE 13:
    NOTE: I decided to do a comparison of the races for those who care about flavour over dps. The Strength numbers assume you're using the gear in this guide, have +4 Str tome and you are 100% unbuffed. The races will be benchmarked by Human, the highest dps rogue race from Update 11 to 13.
    • Human: Human Dmg Boost, Quickdraw (Human bonus feat), Unbuffed Str: 40
    • Half-Elf: Human Dmg Boost, +1 base dmg and proficiency with all martial weapons over Human (loses Quickdraw), Unbuffed Str: 42
    • Half-Orc: Three extra Haste Boosts and +4 base dmg over Human (loses Human Dmg Boost and Quickdraw), Unbuffed Str: 44
    • Halfling: +1 normal to-hit, +3 flanking to-hit, and +6 Sneak Attack dmg over Human (loses Human Dmg Boost, Quickdraw, and +1 base dmg), Unbuffed Str: 38


    NOTE: As of Update 13 the best dps race goes Human>Half-Elf>Half-Orc>Halfling. Halfling is unable to take the fourth sneak attack to-hit and sneak attack damage enhancements due to ap starvation. Halflings can however gain an additional 20 hp over the other three races if you're a 36 point build. Half-Orc gains a whopping +5 base dmg and three extra Haste Boosts over Halfling. Half-Elf chose the Fighter Dilettante, the most viable dilettante available for rogues.


    DDO CLASSIC SERVER PRE-MOTU:
    • Playing a rogue: If by some miracle we get a classic server would I main a rogue again? I would have to say no. Even though rogues were still the kings of dps at 0% fort and despite Update 13 reducing the grind in obtaining max dps gear for a rogue. I still can’t get over how restricted rogues were with the release of Update 11. Rogues were squishy. We had to wait for other people to grab aggro before we could attack. We couldn't solo anything. We lost the majority of our dps once we grabbed aggro which was guaranteed in quests. Then Update 11 limited us to only run normal raids and two epic raids. You're far better off playing a caster, barb, fighter, or one of the twf multiclass builds that were on par with rogues dps. If you're curious about fighter vs barb dps click here. Basically fighters have slightly more dps the lower the fort and barbs have slightly more dps the higher the fort. Fighter loses the majority of its benefit at low fort if it doesn't perform a perfect twitch. Also if the barb is auto-cleaving, fighters benefit at lower fort is moot. If you're curious how other twf builds stack up against rogue click here. Keep in mind those calcs assume Opportunist was working. Which it wasn't until Update 12-13? A Sorc that’s built towards the two caster Dots can put out 600+ dps in Dots alone. Even if the boss has 100 in both resists it’s still 500+ dps. Far exceeding any ranged or melee build by 50-100+ dps on 50% fort bosses. More info here.
    Last edited by Rogann; 01-18-2018 at 08:10 PM.

  6. #26
    Community Member Rydin_Dirtay's Avatar
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    Rogann nice full-on STR based half orc Rogue Assassin build. Yours does what you like it to do.

    You said you'd rather take yours into epics than some other build types. Well, I say why not have it all? A Rogue that has 3% less dps than yours has, but in sports a 40-ish Assassinate DC, and a 40-ish UMD.

    You could get that with your Half-Orc with a little fiddling and 34/36 points. He would still be BRUTAL when fury'ed up and rolling. Yet have a bit more speciality stuff going on (Assassinate and UMD and Scroll use etc.).
    Khyber:Greenberry, Jemric, Qashta, Leuk, Thurradal + many others

  7. #27
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    When it comes to rogues I think horc is overrated. You NEED to go max STR cause otherwise there is no point creating a horc rogue, unless u don't take PA enhancements. But then again, why would u not take it as it's 2nd best enhancement line horcs have.

    Max dps = human/helf. Human probably better cause of extra feat and helf dillies ain't that great and cost some APs. End of story.

    I've been always wondering why people put redscale armors on their rogues, apart from the obvious *bling bling*. I know, 2 slots, sup fire res, incineration - nothing spectacular (with all that epic gear you'll have more than enough slots to augment w/e you want and i wouldn't pay any attention to guards unless you are tanking). I'd rather have the ease of swapping DT armors in an instant than to be tied to only one armor. There are just so many good choices to customise them: heal amp/GFL/heavy fort/resistance +5/some guards/tharnes, depending on your other gear.

    Another thing is Nyoko set, if u have Tharnes or any other Backstabbing item this set gives u only 20% less threat and takes 2 very important slots. Kyosho/Veriks sets are much much better than this one or epic stalker ring + some necklace.

    About threat, if u pug a lot it would be better for u to have as much reduction as u can get. But if you are going to run mainly with guild/friends and have threat reducing items, not to mention improved diplo and bluff, i don't see a need to max SB. When i go all-out on my decked out assassin (tharne's set + SB III = 44%) i usually hit bluff, damage + haste boosts and diplo once off timer. I rarely grab aggro that way, granted they upped fort greatly and i don't pug many raids nowadays.

    Now HPs, i guess those 580hp is your max possible without significantly gimping your DPS.You'd be better off dropping one/two abishai pieces and getting gs hp item instead. DDO pot? Meh. Yugo pot? That shouldn't even be in a thread about "MAX DPS". Not having Toughness or GS hp item really hurts (it's almost 90hp combined). With the changes to bosses' fort and hps u need more hp yourself as healers won't spam heals and chug sp pots for you.

    Edit: @ Qezuzu While it's not an issue on 0-50% fort mobs and raid bosses, it really becomes one while fighting 80-100% ones like Lailat, LoB, Abbot who happen to have decent-high AC. High fort and high AC -> less SA -> more regular attacks -> less to-hit -> more misses -> less DPS.
    Redscales for flaming burst. Rest is pretty much useless. The slots can be very nice, and I guess it looks nice.

    IMO my hp is decent, even 550 is great for most epic stuff.

    Yea I stated 100% fort scares me, however someone said wrack construct makes rogues less gimp in leet/epic lob.

  8. #28
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin_Dirtay View Post
    Rogann nice full-on STR based half orc Rogue Assassin build. Yours does what you like it to do.

    You said you'd rather take yours into epics than some other build types. Well, I say why not have it all? A Rogue that has 3% less dps than yours has, but in sports a 40-ish Assassinate DC, and a 40-ish UMD.

    You could get that with your Half-Orc with a little fiddling and 34/36 points. He would still be BRUTAL when fury'ed up and rolling. Yet have a bit more speciality stuff going on (Assassinate and UMD and Scroll use etc.).
    Int/dex rogues are best in quests, insta killing and paralyzing mobs. However rather take my build when doing raids. My build is a boss beater and the kind of play style of a barbarian I guess you could say.

  9. #29
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    Nice build!!

    what's stats for HElf (36 points) str based? and maybe same int for assassinate DC?
    i have to TR soon : 1 pastlife:monk 2 pastlife:fighter. khop user ^^

    If same1 can post a build ll be appreciate

    Soz about my english...

    tvm.

  10. #30
    Community Member brzytki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Redscales for flaming burst. Rest is pretty much useless. The slots can be very nice, and I guess it looks nice.

    IMO my hp is decent, even 550 is great for most epic stuff.
    Ah, flaming burst - forgot about that. It's nice while questing but there are just too many mobs resistant/immune to fire at end-game for it to be worth it IMO. Slots... let's count them:
    Green: 3
    Colorless: 1
    Yellow: 3
    add 1 Blue and 1 Colorless from redscale armor
    Now i'd like to see what would go in those 9 slots. I'd guess Toughness/Heavy fort/GL in Greens, Disease Immunity/GFL in Yellow. That leaves 1 Blue/Green, 1 Yellow and 2 Colorless. Unless you really need all those slots for +6 stat or +1 exc stat i don't see any use for them.

    Yeah, 550hp is great but you have to count in -5% melee attack speed penalty from yugo pot and being madstoned, so no clickies/scrolls. While the latter is not an issue in boss beatdowns, the former hurts your DPS much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Did Einstein solo eLoB without pots or what?
    Guild: Captain's Crew
    Characters: Kyorli , Xunrae , Halisstra , Nyarly

  11. #31
    Community Member Rydin_Dirtay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Int/dex rogues are best in quests, insta killing and paralyzing mobs. However rather take my build when doing raids. My build is a boss beater and the kind of play style of a barbarian I guess you could say.
    I didn't say anything about INT/DEX Rogues.
    Khyber:Greenberry, Jemric, Qashta, Leuk, Thurradal + many others

  12. #32
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydin_Dirtay View Post
    I didn't say anything about INT/DEX Rogues.
    Then i am rather confused sir.

  13. #33
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    I had a Hord assassin III kopesh rogue life on my main and he was nasty. Really enjoyed the build and the DPS was incredible. Horc is certainly a race I would go with again.

  14. #34
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brzytki View Post
    Ah, flaming burst - forgot about that. It's nice while questing but there are just too many mobs resistant/immune to fire at end-game for it to be worth it IMO. Slots... let's count them:
    Green: 3
    Colorless: 1
    Yellow: 3
    add 1 Blue and 1 Colorless from redscale armor
    Now i'd like to see what would go in those 9 slots. I'd guess Toughness/Heavy fort/GL in Greens, Disease Immunity/GFL in Yellow. That leaves 1 Blue/Green, 1 Yellow and 2 Colorless. Unless you really need all those slots for +6 stat or +1 exc stat i don't see any use for them.

    Yeah, 550hp is great but you have to count in -5% melee attack speed penalty from yugo pot and being madstoned, so no clickies/scrolls. While the latter is not an issue in boss beatdowns, the former hurts your DPS much.
    Slots so far:
    Helm:GFL
    Robe:Good Luck +2,+1 exceptional con
    Bracers:Heavy Fort
    Boots: +1 Exceptional INT/WIS
    Gloves: +6 dex
    Cloak:Toughness
    (Most of the exceptionals are so i can get an even score, whats wrong with more hp/trap skills/will saves?)

    Only got 1 yellow slot on the egem, seems eravens sight dosent have a slot -.-. Dosent matter though, dont think ima put anything on the gem as of now.

    Dont worry, i dont forget the -5% attack speed. Most of the time i only drink str potions .
    Last edited by Rogann; 11-30-2011 at 06:15 PM.

  15. #35
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Then i am rather confused sir.
    Stay Str-based, but don't neglect Int totally.

    Dump Str a bit, use a +3 Dex tome, and put a decent amount of stat points into int. You'd sacrifice at most one Str-bracket and gain a good int-score.

    For instance:
    11 base (5 build points, which is 19 starting STR, and 14 starting DEX)
    3 tome
    2 capstone
    2 ship
    6 item
    ---
    24 int = +8 mod

    Assassinate DC:
    10 base
    8 int
    20 levels
    2 EMG (you can even slot the int into the red slot, if you want to)
    ---
    40 DC.

    This is of course just an example which is tweakable to your needs. Still, you sacrifice so little, but you gain so much.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 11-30-2011 at 06:16 PM.
    Toons on Orien: Meinir // Flodur // Twiddler // Thorkar // Impetor // Juliacantor // Minor all Soko Irrlicht
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  16. #36
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Stay Str-based, but don't neglect Int totally.

    Dump Str a bit, use a +3 Dex tome, and put a decent amount of stat points into int. You'd sacrifice at most one Str-bracket and gain a good int-score.

    For instance:
    11 base (5 build points, which is 19 starting STR, and 14 starting DEX)
    3 tome
    2 capstone
    2 ship
    6 item
    ---
    24 int = +8 mod

    Assassinate DC:
    10 base
    8 int
    20 levels
    2 EMG (you can even slot the int into the red slot, if you want to)
    ---
    40 DC.

    This is of course just an example which is tweakable to your needs. Still, you sacrifice so little, but you gain so much.
    Interesting, might look into this for the future.

  17. #37
    Community Member Bufo_Alvarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post

    For instance:
    11 base (5 build points, which is 19 starting STR, and 14 starting DEX)
    3 tome
    2 capstone
    2 ship
    6 item
    ---
    24 int = +8 mod

    Assassinate DC:
    10 base
    8 int
    20 levels
    2 EMG (you can even slot the int into the red slot, if you want to)
    ---
    40 DC.
    You can also add a 7 int robe with a 1 excep slotted. Thats my plan anyways.

  18. #38
    Community Member Rydin_Dirtay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Interesting, might look into this for the future.

    Yes that is what I meant. You can tweak your guy just a little to gain so much. Especially with a 34 or 36 point build.
    Khyber:Greenberry, Jemric, Qashta, Leuk, Thurradal + many others

  19. #39
    Community Member destiny4405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Hmm well 32 con with toughness and gfl. I personally went 16 con base and ate a +3 con tome. And it's me Gimpforlife from good old Sarlona hehe

    Oh, it's a bit to late for me to get GS, I'd only gain 15hp at the loss of the helm and bracers resulting in a total waste of epic tokens.
    i thought of you when i saw the build well, i know from first hand that you don't have problems with hp

    i understand you for slots. it becomes really boring farming epic tokens

    btw, how is dual wielding epic kronzaks get you toughnesses? are you gonna drop khopesh prof or did i miss something?
    Jesus saves. Everyone else rounds to nearest 5%.

    Sarlona: Nafaka[Rogue] Nandu[Monk] Neotheny[Wizard]
    Bullet Fist Tony My rogue's build

  20. #40
    Community Member destiny4405's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    LOL

    well, while you are busy beating down devils and orothons in say, eDA, an int based assassin is one-shoting them, and often two at a time. All while still doing 80% or so the dps this build offers up on bosses and 100% fort mobs. Figure that into your DPS calculator and the int based comes out WAY ahead. I think the int based is much more fun to play. A build like this is better done and will get better results by going fighter or barb, IMO, because this build just seems to play out more like a front line fighter instead of the classic sneaky role of a rogue, which for me is the whole point of going rogue!
    different people like different things. some like insta killing, some like big numbers.



    i like later
    Jesus saves. Everyone else rounds to nearest 5%.

    Sarlona: Nafaka[Rogue] Nandu[Monk] Neotheny[Wizard]
    Bullet Fist Tony My rogue's build

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