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  1. #181
    Community Member arroyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Also, for constructs, there is always a blasting chime.
    People look down on u12, but it's gear is quite decent. I saw the Ranger post about Frozen Tunic and laughed really hard. Been using it for a long time already.
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  2. #182
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Sunder doesn't reduce fortification.
    Even in guild/channel runs I've noticed that my rogue is the one usually applying the Improved Sunder with maybe 1 other person helping.
    Destruction/Improved Destruction currently apply identical, non-stacking effect which is maximum of 4%.
    Wrack Construct doesn't work against raid bosses.

    All up ... 24% which isn't really much. FvS Aura you forgot to mention is a huge source of rogue DPS. Update 13 will be better as Improved Destruction looks like it will be fixed giving possibly 12% fort decrease between it and Destruction. Still waiting on a fix of wrack construct.

    Fortification is a BIG issue for rogues. It's why my unarmed rogue will usually do more damage in a raid than a pure rogue
    Since when did they change destruction? Thought it only lowered AC last time i read it(about a year ago XD)

  3. #183
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Since when did they change destruction? Thought it only lowered AC last time i read it(about a year ago XD)
    Good to see that you stay informed on game mechanics that greatly effect the class you deign to write guides about.

    Update 11, patch 1 is when the mechanic changed.

  4. #184
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Ha, cant be perfect. Its pretty cool i suppose but not worth swapping weapons for. So meh dosent deserve a spot in the guide.

    Not to mention i was gone for 6 months when U11 came out.

  5. #185
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Ha, cant be perfect. Its pretty cool i suppose but not worth swapping weapons for. So meh dosent deserve a spot in the guide.

    Not to mention i was gone for 6 months when U11 came out.
    Uhh, if destruction is applied you'll probably get as much additional DPS as from an epic claw set personally and the whole party gets additional DPS too. Rogues don't have the highest AB - particularly if not fully geared or against high fort targets - so destruction helps here too.

  6. #186
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    WOW. Just got a +4 STR tome for 20th TOD.

    I'm at 44 str unbuffed now.

    Im a happy camper

    (didn't take a screenshot of the list cause i was caught up in the moment, grrrrrr)
    Last edited by Rogann; 02-07-2012 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #187
    Community Member MalarKan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Uhh, if destruction is applied you'll probably get as much additional DPS as from an epic claw set personally and the whole party gets additional DPS too. Rogues don't have the highest AB - particularly if not fully geared or against high fort targets - so destruction helps here too.
    if you mean Attack Bonus with that, then you should consider Divine Power clickie/scrolls. I personally prefer scrolls, since i already ahve enough clickies and 6 sec timer is just too much.

    And Mister Rogann, if u havent noticed, Epic Kronzek's Cruelty is well worth weilding now
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  8. #188
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalarKan View Post
    And Mister Rogann, if u havent noticed, Epic Kronzek's Cruelty is well worth weilding now
    Ive noticed a long time, been in my post since i made it.

    But i hate house P and getting 2 kronzek's would take a while(plus id have to scroll masters touch all both each time).

  9. #189
    Community Member MalarKan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Ive noticed a long time, been in my post since i made it.

    But i hate house P and getting 2 kronzek's would take a while(plus id have to scroll masters touch all both each time).
    no you dont. If you are gonna weild, lets say, Epic Kronzeks in one hand and Lacerator in the other, both are scimitars, so you just have to masters touch one of them, as long as you weild the one with masters touch you will be proficient with scimitars. and 2 E kronzeks? meh... i rather just weild one and a litII khopesh in the other (if i had one...). But for now i just use whatever for each mob (E garos for fire weak or not-inmune-to-fire-at-least mobs, or a crafted construct beater, etc)

    And im really sure about that... was a ligthpick/heavy pick weilder before. Still use some Hpicks, switching to khopesh is just too expensive... even so, to hit is so nice with the items i have that i dont even need the khopesh feat... that -4 is covered in Epic vulkoorim leathers and Epic raven set (goggles + epic gem).

    edit: forgot scimitars had an S at begining
    Last edited by MalarKan; 02-15-2012 at 09:46 AM.
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  10. #190
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalarKan View Post
    no you dont. If you are gonna weild, lets say, Epic Kronzeks in one hand and Lacerator in the other, both are scimitars, so you just have to masters touch one of them, as long as you weild the one with masters touch you will be proficient with scimitars. and 2 E kronzeks? meh... i rather just weild one and a litII khopesh in the other (if i had one...). But for now i just use whatever for each mob (E garos for fire weak or not-inmune-to-fire-at-least mobs, or a crafted construct beater, etc)

    And im really sure about that... was a ligthpick/heavy pick weilder before. Still use some Hpicks, switching to khopesh is just too expensive... even so, to hit is so nice with the items i have that i dont even need the khopesh feat... that -4 is covered in Epic vulkoorim leathers and Epic raven set (goggles + epic gem).

    edit: forgot scimitars had an S at begining
    Yea your correct, was confused since masters touch only comes up on one weapo(my bad).

    Meh i need as much to-hit as i can get ATM. Bloodplate is a pain to hit(aswell as razor arm) i need as much to-hit as i can get(even with 44 STR unbuffed). Im sure thoughs ekronzeks would actually help a ton though.

  11. #191
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    Going to try this build out and compare it to my dex/int rogue. only downside now i need to make kopeshes thnx for posting your build gimp

  12. #192
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Added in ED's and epic levels. Still some minor typos and need a new 'Average DPS' screenshot but ill get that in time.
    Last edited by Rogann; 07-02-2012 at 06:56 PM.

  13. #193
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Added in ED's and epic levels. Still some minor typos and need a new 'Average DPS' screenshot but ill get that in time.
    So your "max DPS rogue" misses 3d6 sneak attack damage from taking toughness instead of improved sneak attack, and 5d6 sneak attack damage from not being shadowdancer? Losing 28 damage per hit seems like a pretty big deal to me.

    For fate points, it seems like a better deal to go shadow dancer, twist the +3 action boosts, and have another twistable ability,
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 07-02-2012 at 07:39 PM.
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  14. #194
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    So your "max DPS rogue" misses 3d6 sneak attack damage from taking toughness instead of improved sneak attack, and 5d6 sneak attack damage from not being shadowdancer? Losing 28 damage per hit seems like a pretty big deal to me.
    The title of the thread was pre-expansion, from what ive seen i need more survivability so thats what i choose.

    Im not even remotely close to having 21 base dex. Also the bonuses from LD beat a measly '5d6' SA. '28 dmg per swing' is assuming you dont have aggro/fort/mob can be sneak attackable. Where as LD not only gives me more survivability but bonuses stay regardless of aggro/fort.

    Im over the Glass Cannon build. Im making a real rogue that can actually survive.
    Last edited by Rogann; 07-02-2012 at 08:42 PM.

  15. #195
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Im not even remotely close to having 21 base dex. Also the bonuses from LD beat a measly '5d6' SA. '28 dmg per swing' is assuming you dont have aggro/fort/mob can be sneak attackable. Where as LD not only gives me more survivability but bonuses stay regardless of aggro/fort.
    Bypassing fortification is not that much of an issue - without Armor-piercing, Improved sunder, or a helping FVS, a rogue can get to -62% enemy fortification on her own.
    Sneak attacking SA-immune mobs is not completely impossible due to dark elusion.
    Aggro management is the responsibility of the player, and dependent on his/her personal skills and preferences.

    Im over the Glass Cannon build.
    That's your personal choice.
    Im making a real rogue that can actually survive.
    Implying that other rogue builds are not 'real rogues' who cannot survive is not very diplomatic.
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  16. #196
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    So when Improved SA gets fixed to be able to be taken twice (I hear it's broken atm?) you'll be missing a total of 6d6 SA from SD and 6d6 SA from feats - 42 damage/hit - along with the ability make mobs vulnerable to SA who were otherwise immune.

    Your build is no longer "max DPS" as it is quite possible to build a character with the above while still maintaining acceptable survivability.

    That said, I definitely enjoy the tanking style of a sturdy rogue and have a similar rogue myself, I'll go GMoF in my case but I never claimed that my character is max DPS (lots of DPS is enough).

    I'd definitely consider tracking down a +3 dex tome, starting with 16 base dex and putting 2 level ups into it though to get that extra 3d6 or 6d6 SA, that would at least help your case.
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  17. #197
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Implying that other rogue builds are not 'real rogues' who cannot survive is not very diplomatic.
    What? Me saying 'real' rogue was talking about my old build. Having 425 unbuffed was a little sketchy in evon6/bloodplate room ETC.

  18. #198
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Your build is no longer "max DPS" as it is quite possible to build a character with the above while still maintaining acceptable survivability.

    That said, I definitely enjoy the tanking style of a sturdy rogue and have a similar rogue myself, I'll go GMoF in my case but I never claimed that my character is max DPS (lots of DPS is enough).
    Exactly, the title was pre-expansion. My goals are on making a rogue now are survivability. I was thinking the same thing. Would be kinda fun going GMoF since i have all the tod rings/redscale.

  19. #199
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    What? Me saying 'real' rogue was talking about my old build. Having 425 unbuffed was a little sketchy in evon6/bloodplate room ETC.
    Ahuh.
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  20. #200
    Community Member Quarterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Ahuh.
    My thoughts exactly.

    Who does Rogann think (s)he is by saying what a "real" rogue is?

    I guess I'm not a "real" rogue even though my sneak attack is greater, I can bypass 73% fortification (93% on constructs) by myself, and my hit points is more than enough.

    Furthermore, I guess Sockpuppet isn't a "real" rogue as well.
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