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  1. #1
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Default 10k Stars Testing Thread

    Alright, so I'm going to use this thread to compile numbers on 10k stars. If you would like to contribute information, please do so in the format outlined below, or in some method that gets equivalent certainty.

    Information I have so far:

    32 WIS

    1 arrow/star: 29
    2 arrow/star: 57
    3 arrow/star: 14
    4 arrow/star: 0 (not sure if possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Just did a small amount of testing to add some data. Over 100 shots with 48 wisdom

    1 star: 10 (10%)
    2 stars: 51 (51%)
    3 stars: 33 (33%)
    4 stars: 6 (6%)

    Quote Originally Posted by sirdanile View Post
    numbers at 24 wis

    1 - 45 - 45%
    2 - 50 - 50%
    3 - 5 - 5%
    4 - None

    Activate 10k stars, and count the ammunition used for each attack, this is easiest using a plain weapon with no special abilities.

    ****NOTE: Do not try to collect information using shuriken if you have shuriken expertise, DROW automatically get this.


    Once I have enough information I'll try to compile it all and calculate the benefit of each additional point of wisdom.

    Contributions at any wisdom level would will be helpful. More info at wisdom lvls already recorded is also extremely helpful.


    Calculations so far:

    48 WIS: 135% increase in shots. 67.5% increase in baseline DPS.

    32 WIS: 85% increase in shots. 42.5% increase in baseline DPS.

    24 WIS: 60% increase in shots. 30% increase in baseline DPS.

    Plotting this on a graph seems to indicate a linear form. (actually, really nicely so, since calculating out an increase per unit from two of the entries yields a result that precisely estimates the third) So by this, we have a 3.125% increase in baseline DPS per 2 points of wisdom, or for each +1 modifier of wisdom (Not unreasonable to guess that it works on wisdom modifier or units of 2 wisdom, and we currently lack any data to prove that there's a difference between say 32 WIS and 33 WIS).

    This seems to very strongly indicate that on these Monk AA builds that WIS lvl ups are far more beneficial than STR lvl ups (not that you shouldn't try to get high str too).
    Last edited by Diyon; 11-25-2011 at 04:55 PM.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  2. #2
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Added some rough calculation for what I've already gathered. Rather small sample size, I'll add more to it later.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  3. #3
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    is this with or without shuriken expertise?

  4. #4
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    is this with or without shuriken expertise?
    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    ****NOTE: Do not try to collect information using shuriken if you have shuriken expertise, DROW automatically get this.
    Without. With both being utilized with no way to differentiate between the two, the data becomes very narrow in usage and practically worthless.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  5. #5
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Without. With both being utilized with no way to differentiate between the two, the data becomes very narrow in usage and practically worthless.
    wait, why not test with shuriken expertise? what if we want to know if and how they stack? =S

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    wait, why not test with shuriken expertise? what if we want to know if and how they stack? =S
    Until we know how both work (and shuriken expertise is known), it is hard to tell how they stack. Once we have a baseline for 10k stars, we can then figure out if/how well they stack.

  7. #7
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    wait, why not test with shuriken expertise? what if we want to know if and how they stack? =S
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamshifter View Post
    Until we know how both work (and shuriken expertise is known), it is hard to tell how they stack. Once we have a baseline for 10k stars, we can then figure out if/how well they stack.
    This.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  8. #8
    Community Member sirdanile's Avatar
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    I've got a monk archer, gimme a few i'll rack up some test numbers, are we counting number of hits per shot or amount of ammunition used over the duration of a 10k stars?
    The bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to keep me tame.
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    Toons: Diclonius, Sempresno, Slitmuno, Slitmdos, Slitmtres, Skyfe, Calcatrix, Marcosias, Sumona, Tarokian, Etc.

  9. #9
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Just did a small amount of testing to add some data. Over 100 shots with 48 wisdom

    1 star: 10 (10%)
    2 stars: 51 (51%)
    3 stars: 33 (33%)
    4 stars: 6 (6%)

    I did a very small amount of testing with 50 wisdom as I couldn't hold the buff for long. I was trying to see if perhaps you could get a 5 star shot with 50 wisdom. Perhaps an extra potential star is added at each 10 wisdom interval as the OP didn't see any 4 shots with only 32 wis, but with only a couple minutes to test, I didn't see any 5 star shots at 50 wisdom. Inconclusive. If I can find a longer lasting buff, I'll try again at 50 wis.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  10. #10
    Community Member sirdanile's Avatar
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    Some preliminary testing numbers at 24 wis, I can put it at all ranges of wisdom if it will help, anywhere from 16 to 28

    1 - 45 - 45%
    2 - 50 - 50%
    3 - 5 - 5%
    4 - None
    Last edited by sirdanile; 11-25-2011 at 11:33 AM.
    The bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to keep me tame.
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    Toons: Diclonius, Sempresno, Slitmuno, Slitmdos, Slitmtres, Skyfe, Calcatrix, Marcosias, Sumona, Tarokian, Etc.

  11. #11
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Just did a small amount of testing to add some data. Over 100 shots with 48 wisdom

    1 star: 10 (10%)
    2 stars: 51 (51%)
    3 stars: 33 (33%)
    4 stars: 6 (6%)

    I did a very small amount of testing with 50 wisdom as I couldn't hold the buff for long. I was trying to see if perhaps you could get a 5 star shot with 50 wisdom. Perhaps an extra potential star is added at each 10 wisdom interval as the OP didn't see any 4 shots with only 32 wis, but with only a couple minutes to test, I didn't see any 5 star shots at 50 wisdom. Inconclusive. If I can find a longer lasting buff, I'll try again at 50 wis.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirdanile View Post
    Some preliminary testing numbers at 24 wis, I can put it at all ranges of wisdom if it will help, anywhere from 16 to 28

    1 - 45 - 45%
    2 - 50 - 50%
    3 - 5 - 5%
    4 - None
    Thanks for the input I'll update the OP. Any info you'd be willing to put in Sirdanile would help.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirdanile View Post
    Some preliminary testing numbers at 24 wis, I can put it at all ranges of wisdom if it will help, anywhere from 16 to 28

    1 - 45 - 45%
    2 - 50 - 50%
    3 - 5 - 5%
    4 - None
    The "4-none" its a mistake,just tested for a friend of mine and i saw "4-3" with 26 wis!

  13. #13
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xristoss View Post
    The "4-none" its a mistake,just tested for a friend of mine and i saw "4-3" with 26 wis!
    Not necessarily a mistake, just a small sampling. That will become clear as more data is gathered.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  14. #14
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    I notice that the 3 samples all have exactly 100 shots and yet I don't see this mentioned in the op anywhere. I assume everyone is testing with shurikens with a level 20 non-drow monk?

    Here's this for a theory to fit the data:
    50+2*(wis modifier)% for first additional arrow
    0+(wis modifier)% for second additional arrow
    0+0.1*(wis modifier)% for third additional arrow

    Does this fit the data with a margin of error? This gives +3.1% additional DPS per wisdom modifier while 10k stars is active.

    I can't wait to finish my current TR so I can TR my paladin into a 10k stars archer

  15. #15
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Though this is just anecdotal and not really conclusive, my testing with 52 wisdom showed a rather large amount of single shuriken shots. Much higher than with 48 wisdom. Possibly a bug, probably just a small sample size and randomness. Either way, it doesn't fall into the "50+2*(wis modifier)% for first additional arrow" range as that would imply a 100% chance of at least 2 shuriken per shot. If there is a cutoff for 100% chance of at least 2 shuriken per shot, it's mostly likely out of the range of reasonable possibility. Some very, very uber monk may be able to sustain low 60's wisdom for short bursts of time, but I can't see it being a long term sustainable mark. Your formula numbers do look very close to accurate based on the data so far though, Wax.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 11-27-2011 at 08:45 PM.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  16. #16
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I notice that the 3 samples all have exactly 100 shots and yet I don't see this mentioned in the op anywhere. I assume everyone is testing with shurikens with a level 20 non-drow monk?

    Here's this for a theory to fit the data:
    50+2*(wis modifier)% for first additional arrow
    0+(wis modifier)% for second additional arrow
    0+0.1*(wis modifier)% for third additional arrow

    Does this fit the data with a margin of error? This gives +3.1% additional DPS per wisdom modifier while 10k stars is active.

    I can't wait to finish my current TR so I can TR my paladin into a 10k stars archer
    I had 100 shots because that's what I wanted to get to. Was not doing it on a 20th monk, but that shouldn't matter right?

    What about for the 4th arrow?
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  17. #17
    Community Member sirdanile's Avatar
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    I shot and recorded for 10 minutes using a bow, not a shuriken.
    100 is a nice easy number

    12 monk/6 Ranger/2 fighter

    I may want to redo my level ups on a tr and get exceptional wis gear now...
    Last edited by sirdanile; 11-27-2011 at 09:59 PM.
    The bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to keep me tame.
    Thelanis
    Toons: Diclonius, Sempresno, Slitmuno, Slitmdos, Slitmtres, Skyfe, Calcatrix, Marcosias, Sumona, Tarokian, Etc.

  18. #18
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    What about for the 4th arrow?
    do you have any confirmed reports of a 4th (additional) arrow? i've not seen any in this thread...

  19. #19
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    do you have any confirmed reports of a 4th (additional) arrow? i've not seen any in this thread...
    Quoted below:

    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Just did a small amount of testing to add some data. Over 100 shots with 48 wisdom

    1 star: 10 (10%)
    2 stars: 51 (51%)
    3 stars: 33 (33%)
    4 stars: 6 (6%)

    I did a very small amount of testing with 50 wisdom as I couldn't hold the buff for long. I was trying to see if perhaps you could get a 5 star shot with 50 wisdom. Perhaps an extra potential star is added at each 10 wisdom interval as the OP didn't see any 4 shots with only 32 wis, but with only a couple minutes to test, I didn't see any 5 star shots at 50 wisdom. Inconclusive. If I can find a longer lasting buff, I'll try again at 50 wis.
    I haven't gotten a personal confirmation myself yet though.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  20. #20
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    I had 100 shots because that's what I wanted to get to. Was not doing it on a 20th monk, but that shouldn't matter right?

    What about for the 4th arrow?
    It says "additional" so 1 base + 3 additional = 4.

    I was actually thinking that the above guess is wrong as I would assume that each arrow chance is checked irrespective of any other arrows proccing.

    Perhaps it is something like:
    1: 100%
    2: 50+1*wis mod%
    3: 2*wis mod%
    4: 0.1*wis mod%

    I think this will give a better distribution considering that often enough arrow 2 won't proc but arrow 3 will, if you see what I'm saying. I wish that I remembered how to plot things like this ...

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