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  1. #61
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Costs monks a lot less:
    Byrron vs portal:
    26 sec: 461.5 dps
    Byrron vs giant:
    2:52: 401 dps

    Oddly he actually gained DPS.. I blame the power of smiting wraps, and synergy of haste boost.

    Pretty sure no amount of numbers in the world will explain that, and they'd all say he'd do more vs 0% 0 DR target, but in the actual game.. Things are more complex.
    This is because that giant entry was made on a pure 20 wisdom based monk, and the 26 second portal entry was on a 10fighter/9monk/1rogue strength based build. The pure 20 wisdom based portal entry was 34 seconds (~353 dps) so no, I didn't gain dps on the portal.
    Also, the relatively small difference in dps is due to the low crit profile of unarmed combat, not because DR affects monks less.. in fact, the DR alone reduces haste boosted monk dps more then any other class. If the portal was 0% fort and 10 DR, monks would actually be the worst class for this.
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  2. #62
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    DR alone reduces haste boosted monk dps more then any other class.
    Yea haste boost + dmg booost monk is pretty sick. How many swings/min is it?

    But u only have 5 boosts right..

    So dps challenge and very short boss fights, its true perhaps.

    But for longer stuff, like say 13 of those portals (shroud) or 300k hp worth of 100% fort nonsense (abbot) elite, ur hits per min average would eventually drop down below a cleaving bbn.

    But yea also goes to show the huge difference in wis or dex spec, vs str spec. It's a lot more then most ppl make it out to be. So many terrible dex monks around these days wanting to join my epic raids that require solid dps.. They need to learn how much of an impact it makes.

    You should do ur new uber str build vs giant video tho. Also come to khyber, we own all the dps builds =)

  3. #63
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Yea haste boost + dmg booost monk is pretty sick. How many swings/min is it?
    Vanshilar predicts it to be 147.5 swings per minute (265.5 with offhands) much more then the 108 swing per minute (216 with glances) that autocleave gives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    But yea also goes to show the huge difference in wis or dex spec, vs str spec. It's a lot more then most ppl make it out to be. So many terrible dex monks around these days wanting to join my epic raids that require solid dps.. They need to learn how much of an impact it makes.

    You should do ur new uber str build vs giant video tho. Also come to khyber, we own all the dps builds =)
    While I do agree that there's almost no reason to make a dex monk these days, my "new uber" build is the wisdom based pure monk, not the strength based fighter splash gimp. As someone who has played both strength based pure and splash monks, I guarantee that the wisdom build kills faster and does more dps in 99% of the game (even if the results aren't as great on a static portal, which is due to the 32.5% attack speed increase, not the +3 damage per swing )
    Last edited by Monkey_Archer; 12-03-2011 at 05:27 AM.
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  4. #64
    Community Member Daggertooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    While I do agree that there's almost no reason to make a dex monk these days, my "new uber" build is the wisdom based pure monk, not the strength based fighter splash gimp. As someone who has played both strength based pure and splash monks, I guarantee that the wisdom build kills faster and does more dps in 99% of the game )

    This here is forum gold man.. your 'new uber build'

    Back in 2007 when monks first came out, my monk was the only wisdom based monk on the server. Back then a 27 DC stun was the end all be all and was able to actually stun the giants in gianthold. Of course everyone was so concerned with con.. (and str and dex) that they only put a few points in wis. But thankfully eveyrone has your 'new uber build' to show them how its done. Maybe you and Shade can collaborate on some kind of video or something.

    So anyway wouldnt that mean that I was using your 'new uber build' before you ever even played the game? Just think man, you were busy copying and pasting all those builds from the forum and I was already capped with your 'new uber build'. Aint it nuts?
    Last edited by Daggertooth; 12-03-2011 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #65
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggertooth View Post
    This here is forum gold man.. your 'new uber build'

    Back in 2007 when monks first came out, my monk was the only wisdom based monk on the server. Back then a 27 DC stun was the end all be all and was able to actually stun the giants in gianthold. Of course everyone was so concerned with con.. (and str and dex) that they only put a few points in wis. But thankfully eveyrone has your 'new uber build' to show them how its done. Maybe you and Shade can collaborate on some kind of video or something.

    So anyway wouldnt that mean that I was using your 'new uber build' before you ever even played the game? Just think man, you were busy copying and pasting all those builds from the forum and I was already capped with your 'new uber build'. Aint it nuts?
    I dont know what you are talking about.
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  6. #66
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggertooth View Post
    Back in 2007 when monks first came out, my monk was the only wisdom based monk on the server.
    I bet. Because the rest if us didn't get the monk class until 2008.

  7. #67
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    I dont know what you are talking about.
    No one does.

    Vordax

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  8. #68
    Community Member Daggertooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordax View Post
    No one does.

    Vordax
    I was just saying that it was the same with monks when they first came out as it is with artificers today... i.e. no one having a clue as to what they're doing and mine being the best.

  9. #69
    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggertooth View Post
    This here is forum gold man.. your 'new uber build'

    Back in 2007 when monks first came out, my monk was the only wisdom based monk on the server. Back then a 27 DC stun was the end all be all and was able to actually stun the giants in gianthold. Of course everyone was so concerned with con.. (and str and dex) that they only put a few points in wis. But thankfully eveyrone has your 'new uber build' to show them how its done. Maybe you and Shade can collaborate on some kind of video or something.

    So anyway wouldnt that mean that I was using your 'new uber build' before you ever even played the game? Just think man, you were busy copying and pasting all those builds from the forum and I was already capped with your 'new uber build'. Aint it nuts?
    It's sad to be ignored.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daggertooth View Post
    I was just saying that it was the same with monks when they first came out as it is with artificers today... i.e. no one having a clue as to what they're doing and mine being the best.
    Right.

  10. #70
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedDragonScale View Post
    It's sad to be ignored.




    Right.
    It's usually best to just laugh at those posts. Can not be taken seriously. People that generally state unequivocally that they are the best, generally aren't. Even if they "are", they generally aren't worth grouping with.
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  11. #71
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokiewa View Post
    It's usually best to just laugh at those posts. Can not be taken seriously. People that generally state unequivocally that they are the best, generally aren't. Even if they "are", they generally aren't worth grouping with.
    Seems to be a lot of that going around in this thread, which is a shame, because cforce has asked us TWICE not to do so as that isn't what this thread is about.
    .

  12. #72
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    Seems to be a lot of that going around in this thread, which is a shame, because cforce has asked us TWICE not to do so as that isn't what this thread is about.
    Yeah any paticular reason you guys are talking about unreltaed stuff

    ie. Shade you really don't belong in this thread no one really cares if your Barb deals more damage than an Arty we're trying to discover the best way to deal damage with rune arms
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  13. #73

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    About rune arms,
    What exactly increases the bolts' damage? Is it just enhancements along with item / clicky? Or does maximize / empower and stuff work as well?

    And is there some other hidden bonus or Arti feature besides what I've mentioned?
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  14. #74
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    About rune arms,
    What exactly increases the bolts' damage? Is it just enhancements along with item / clicky? Or does maximize / empower and stuff work as well?

    And is there some other hidden bonus or Arti feature besides what I've mentioned?
    clicky/item + enhancements for the damage portion. which offers a saving throw which the OP does a good job of detailing out.

    no metamagics work with it

    the actual Rune Arm enhacement line doesnt increase the damage directly, but does make it so u can fire it more often.
    Shadowsteel [TR train wreck]

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSteel View Post
    clicky/item + enhancements for the damage portion. which offers a saving throw which the OP does a good job of detailing out.

    no metamagics work with it

    the actual Rune Arm enhacement line doesnt increase the damage directly, but does make it so u can fire it more often.
    Thanks. +1

    Also, some rune arms fire multiple bolts, and my question is, do these bolts do full damage, or just a portion of the damage and it then ends up at full.
    So, if the damage on the rune arm is 20d8, do each bolt deal 20d8, or does all bolts combined add up to 20d8?
    I'd imagine it's all bolts combined, but since the force one supposedly deals more than Toven's since it only has 4 bolts, it makes me wonder if it is 20d8 per bolt.
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  16. #76
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    The damage listed is definitely for each bolt, Absolute.

    This probably does mean that on paper, even against non-lightning-immune no-evasion single targets, Lucid Dreams is superior to Toven's if you're just looking at the rune arm blast.

    That said, Toven's is great. Each of the 4 bolts is AoE, and you can debuff with Lightning Motes for a bonus 15% damage prior to shooting. Toven's also gives a (stacking with Lit II Lightning Strikes) Lightning Strike property, to crossbow hits, in addition to slightly more per hit over Lucid Dreams anyway, meaning your crossbow is ~11 damage per hit better than Lucid Dreams. Plus, in 12.1, it will have 2 other useful slot-saving properties... incidentally, Blast Rod is respectable damage when fully specced in lightning.

    I really enjoy force spec, and am currently using Lucid Dreams. Being lightning spec with Toven's, however, is a fine alternative, and I'd call it preferable for running a lot of epics where you'll be in a party meaning BB's aren't a great option for AoE.

    Finally, I sympathize with the arguments for Glorious Obscenity. I used it for a while before I got the other rune arms, and it was fine and does more raw damage (ignoring saving throw likelihood given it's against fort) than either of the other rune arm options against a single target that takes full damage from Acid. It positively murders epic tiefling casters. I also liked the Enhanced Spot +5 and saving the Seeker slot.

    That said, the synergies of the other rune arms with Arti spells are why I prefer force or lightning now, but Glorious Obscenity is far from gimpy too.
    Last edited by Deathdefy; 12-04-2011 at 04:09 AM.
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  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    The damage listed is definitely for each bolt, Absolute.

    This probably does mean that on paper, even against non-lightning-immune no-evasion single targets, Lucid Dreams is superior to Toven's if you're just looking at the rune arm blast.

    That said, Toven's is great. Each of the 4 bolts is AoE, and you can debuff with Lightning Motes for a bonus 15% damage prior to shooting. Toven's also gives a (stacking with Lit II Lightning Strikes) Lightning Strike property, to crossbow hits, in addition to slightly more per hit over Lucid Dreams anyway, meaning your crossbow is ~11 damage per hit better than Lucid Dreams. Plus, in 12.1, it will have 2 other useful slot-saving properties... incidentally, Blast Rod is respectable damage when fully specced in lightning.
    Hmm, that's quite unbelievable for damage. It means that Lucid Dreams should do
    107 base*(1 + 0.5 + 1) =267 * 5 = 1335/6 = 222.5 dps
    and thats without crits. I thought it was closer to 150 with crits
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  18. #78
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    Hmm, that's quite unbelievable for damage. It means that Lucid Dreams should do
    107 base*(1 + 0.5 + 1) =267 * 5 = 1335/6 = 222.5 dps
    and thats without crits. I thought it was closer to 150 with crits
    Save for half? Haha, I'm unsure if that explains it adequately but that's all I've got.
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  19. #79
    Community Member Ravoc-DDO's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on the Disciplinator? Didn't see this one in the OP. I'll assume it's also another Lash type rune arm.

  20. #80
    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    Plus, in 12.1, it will have 2 other useful slot-saving properties...
    Can you explain this further? I haven't heard of any changes to Toven's.

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