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  1. #1

    Default Maximizing Rune Arm DPS

    Author's Update: Note that all calculations were done before the changes to the spell power system. Along with those changes, Rune Arms got a variable spell power penalty that hasn't really been fully reverse engineered -- so take exact number with a grain of salt. At a coarse level, a lot of these relative comparisons will be roughly the same, but the details have likely shifted.

    Maximizing Rune Arm DPS

    I've been doing research and testing in order to plan out rune arm strategy with my own Artificer (currently only level 10). As I've sometimes done in the past, I figured I might as well post my consolidated research and make a bit of a guide that others may find useful.

    I. Firing Types

    The most important thing to effective Rune Arm DPS is actually hitting your target, so let's review the different types of fire the rune arms can create. Each is quite a bit different and useful/useless in different situations, and it's important to understand how the targeting and fire patter work in each case.

    There are 6 patterns of rune arm fire:

    Blast (Flame Warden [2], Chimera's Breath [3], Trial by Fire [3], Arcing Sky [4]) - AoE
    The Blast firing type does what appears to be a cone on animation, but is really a rectangular or nearly-rectangular damage box:

    Code:
     *********->
     X********->
     *********->
    With you positioned at X, the blast will hit people in what I'd characterize as "extended melee range" (reachable with a two-hander) 90 degrees to the left and right of the direction you are facing. The direction of the blast is not affected by targeting, only by facing. The length of the blast in front of you gets larger at higher charge tiers, but the width appears to stay more or less the same regardless of charge tier. This type does a single tick of damage at the approriate charge tier rate.

    Exploding Fire Shot (Khyber's Fury [2], Hand of the Tombs [3], Animus [5]) - AoE
    Exploding Fire Shot = Fireball with manual targeting. Exploding Fire Shot doesn't cast at who you have targeted, it casts at wherever your aiming reticule is. This is also incredibly hard to use at point blank range. First, if you're actually pressed up against a mob, the fireball will shoot out of its back! You have to take a step back to register a hit. Furthermore (or perhaps releated), the bounding boxes are pretty sensistive to deviation -- if you're off a little bit to one side or the other at near-point-blank range, you'll miss the target.

    It much better you quickly target the ground under your feet if you want to use this at point-blank. For these reasons, this is a tough Rune Arm type to pair with a melee Artificer.

    Lash (Flicker [2], Disciplinator [3]) - AoE
    This one's a bit of a weird one. The AoE seems best described as a lightning bolt. Mobs *near* the path of the "lash-ball" will get hit, those farther away won't:
    Code:
         o-hit
    X-------------*
    	o-hit
         x-missed
    Unlike the exploding Fire Shot, this does appear to function OK at point blank range, and isn't too sensitive to facing. The radius of how far away from the center line the ball will score a 'lash' increases at higher tiers.

    In addition, a mob which is hit directly by the ball will get an additional tick of damage.

    Bolts (Chulcannad's Claw [2], The Devourer's Hunger [3], Chill of Winter [4]) - Single Target
    This firing type fires multiple bolts in a straight line, at wherever you've manually aimed the reticule -- it does not aim at a mob you have targeted. This shot type doesn't work well at point-blank range, suffering from the same "shooting out your back" behavior as Exploding Fire Shot, and subject tot he same sensitivity to facing in the wrong direction. But it's one of the easiest for long-range "Sniper" shots, as the bolts follow a straight path. The number of bolts fired is 2 for Tier I/II, 3 for Tier III, and 4 for Tier IV/V.

    Shot (Thought Spike [2], Recoyle [3], Pea Shooter [3], The Turmoil Within [4], Titan's Fist [4], Glorious Obscenity [5], Lucid Dreams [5]) - Single Target <kinda>
    The Shot firing type is *the only type that actually aims at who you are targeting*! It fires a "spray" of homing bolts, that will all travel in a sometimes-curved trajectory to hit your target. Any "shots" that hit somme other piece of geometry (landscape or other mobs) will be stopped there, though. (In this way it's possible to hit multiple targets. For example, if you target a guy in the back row, your shots could spread out and actually hit up to five different targets in front of that guy before they home in on their actual target. The number of bolts fired is one per tier, making this type the highest single-target damage type for tier V-capable rune arms (if all off the bolts actually hit, which is quite tricky).

    Unlike bolts, this *can* be fired at point-blank range without backing up. It is still pretty sensitive to facing, though. If you're much more than 30 degrees off of your point-blank target, the shots will end up shooting harmlessly past them. This is the best (only?) single-target option that's usable on a melee artificer for that reason -- you'll just need to really practice accurate facing with it.

    If you're not comfortable with actively using mouse look to aim, than this is really your only option as a ranged Artificer, as well.

    Spirals (Candlelight [2], Coronach [3], Tira's Splendor [5]) - Single Target
    The bolts! They're all drunk! For all intents and purposes this acts like Bolts, except the bolts travel in spirals around the reticule rather than in a straight line to the target. All of the same problems with Bolts apply -- no good at point-blank, have to manually aim, etc. All of these rune arms also do light damage, for which there's no artificer enhancement line. The number of bolts fired is 2 for Tier I/II, 3 for Tier III, and 4 for Tier IV/V.

    Storm (Toven's Hammer [5]) - AoE
    This is the only type I don't have -- I'll rely on the generousity of other to fill in the blanks for now. This rune arm fires multiple charges, but each charge does an AoE strike in a small radius around theh impact point. Author's request for info: I'm assuming this rune arm fires at the reticule, not at a targeted enemy? This makes Toven's HAmmer the highest damage AoE available. The number of bolts fired is 2 for Tier I/II, 3 for Tier III, and 4 for Tier IV/V.

    II. Maximizing Damage

    Let's start by looking at the base damage progressions. Per Eladrin:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    There are two progressions. Elemental, and Force/Light.

    Elemental:
    Tier I: 2d4+2 + (1d2 per Artificer Level)
    Tier II: 2d6+3 + (1d4 per Artificer Level)
    Tier III: 2d8+4 + (1d6 per Artificer Level)
    Tier IV: 2d10+5 + (1d8 per Artificer Level)
    Tier V: 2d12+6 + (1d10 per Artificer Level)

    Force/Light:
    Tier I: 1d4+2 + (1 per Artificer Level)
    Tier II: 2d4+3 + (1d2 per Artificer Level)
    Tier III: 2d6+4 + (1d4 per Artificer Level)
    Tier IV: 2d8+5 + (1d6 per Artificer Level)
    Tier V: 2d10+6 + (1d8 per Artificer Level)
    (Note that some of the frequently-used screenshots of the various rune arms are from Lamannia, before an update that set them to the levels above. As far as I know, the rune arms on live all conform to the above, although I don't have a copy of every one personally to test this out.)

    The numbers above are, of course, a bit tricky to wrap your head around. When it comes down to specifics, there are actually 5 scales. Some of the rune arms do a single "packet" of the damage above, in an area of effect. All of these rune arms are elemental typed. The remainder fire multiple shots or bolts per charge tier, along one of two progressions: either 1/2/3/4/5 (Shot) or 2/2/3/4/4 (Bolt, Spiral, Storm). This results in up to 5 "packets" of the damage listed. I'm going to re-express them using a few common break-points in the various Artificer and Artificer-splash builds I've seen bouncing around: Artificer 20, 16, and 6.

    Artificer 6 averages -- Tier I/II/III/IV/V
    Blast, Exploding Shot, Lash: 16/25/34/43/52
    Bolts, Storm: 32/50/102/172/204
    Spiral: 21/34/78/140/176
    Shot (Elemental): 16/50/102/172/256
    Shot (Force): 10.5/34/78/140/220

    Artificer 16 averages -- Tier I/II/III/IV/V
    Blast, Exploding Shot, Lash: 31/50/69/88/107
    Bolts, Storm: 62/100/207/352/428
    Spiral: 41/64/153/280/356
    Shot (Elemental): 31/100/207/352/535
    Shot (Force): 20.5/64/153/280/445

    Artificer 20 averages -- Tier I/II/III/IV/V
    Blast, Exploding Shot, Lash: 37/60/83/106/129
    Bolts, Storm: 74/120/252/424/516
    Spiral: 49/76/183/336/428
    Shot (Elemental): 37/120/252/424/645
    Shot (Force): 24.5/76/183/336/535


    Informally, many folks have given the advice that it's better DPS to charge the rune arms all the way to the maximum tier, rather than firing fewer lower-tier shots. More specfically, when using a shot rune arm, you would leave a *lot* of damage on the table. With full investment in the rune arm enhancement lines, a tier-5 shot can be fired about once every 6 seconds. In the same amount of time, due to cooldowns, you could probably fire about 3 tier I shots or about 2 tier II shots. Using the level 20 elemental scale, one tier V shot is 645 damage, but 3 tier I shots only add up to 117, a *huge* dropoff.

    With Blast, Exploding Shot, or Lash, on the other hand, the dropoff isn't nearly as severe. A tier V AoE is 129 points of base damage, but 3 tier I shots still add up to 117, only a slight drop-off. What this means for practical purposes is this: if you're "running and gunning", circle-kiting to clean up trash with an AoE, don't feel compelled to stop (and take a subsequent dose of incoming melee damage) just to get your rune arm past its stable charge tier. In the AoE cases, more shots at lower charge tiers doesn't *significantly* impact your damage.

    Items/Enhancements: Items and enhancements that increase spell damage or create spell criticals also affect rune arm damage. This means that base damage can be increased to 2.25x with a full investment in the corresponding <X manipulation> line, and a clickie of Superior <type> VI -- and a critical chance of 18%, with a critical multiplier of 2.75x, is possible with full enhancement investment and a major lore item. With this kind of across-the-board investment, a Artificer 20 can get up to 645 x 2.25 x 1.315 (averaged crit) = ~1900 damage per shot. There are a few ways to push this even higher, of course -- the eardweller, for example.

    Caster Level: Thanks to MrCow for providing some data on how caster level augmentations interact with Rune Arms:

    • They do not benefit from items with a bonus to caster level on Evocation (Infused Chaos Armor, Might of the Abishai). I have not checked anything with Arcane Augmentation.
    • They do not benefit from Prestige Bonuses to caster level (Radiant Servant will not boost Candlelight/Coronach/Tira's Splendor, for instance).
    • They do benefit from the Spellsinger's Song of Arcane Might.


    DC: One thing that's worth pointing out in damage calculations above -- I'm assuming a failed saving throw on the part of the mob. In this respect, I'm cheating! DC makes a big difference. The DC of Rune Arm blasts, it seems, is: 10 + {Charge Tier + 1} + {INT modifier} + {Max Charge Tier - 1} + {Evocation Feat Bonuses}. Note that preliminary testing seemed to indicate that Evocation item bonuses are not taken into account, although this could bear some independent verification. The difference of an INT-focused-build that hits 40 INT, and a splash build that only hits 20 INT, can be significant. It's also a good idea to consider the weak saves of your opponent. While the Force line is strictly weaker than the Elemental lines, it caries a will save. It may end up being more damage overall vs. melee-type bosses than other elemental lines which target fortitude or reflex. It's worth pointing this out, specifically, with regard to some of the end-game Rune Arms. Glorious Obscenity, on paper, has the highest single-target potential damage in the game. However, it uses a *Fortitude* save. In Epics, it's typical for Fortitude saves to be *much* higher than Will saves, which means that a will-save based Rune Arm like Lucid Dreams, is often going to be dealing more damage in practice.

    Taking this further, let's do a bit of comparison of two scenarios: in the first, we have our level 20 artificer with full investment in damage enhancements, and a decent DC, in content where he manages to get to "failed saves on a 19". In the second case, we have someone who has splashed artificer 6 and made *no* spell damage enhancement selections or rune arm enhancements. (We'll still assume that they're smart and use a clickie and manage to slot a Major Lore item, though.)

    Level 20 "Full Damage" Arti: 1900 (above) x 0.975 (one made save in 20) = ~1850 every ~6 seconds, or about +310 DPS
    "Splash 6" Arti with no damage enhancements: 260 base x 1.75 (clickie) x 1.09 (averaged crit) x 0.75 (10 saves made in 20) = ~370 every ~7 seconds, or about +50 DPS.

    If the splash arti goes even further and doesn't bother with a clickie or lore item, the added DPS starts getting truly marginal.

    This is an extreme example, obviously -- but the moral of the story is this: understand how much damage these rune arms can add! With the proper investments, the rune arm adds a lot! I'm sure there are plenty of Artificer splash builds out there that have very good build reasons-to-be, but if you're trying to max ranged damage, more Arti levels do a lot more than just unlocking spells -- build wisely!

    Note: I'm still leveling up my artificer, and while I've got a rune arm of every shot type, I haven't been able to personally test the higher-level rune arms with the same shot type. As always, if you have additional data to contribute, please pitch in! (Even if its contradictory -- that's often the best kind!)
    Last edited by cforce; 01-02-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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  2. #2
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Bookmarked for rereading for whenever I make an Artificer!

    Great read, as always!
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    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    cforce,

    For an Artificer, do you recommend the standard 7/1/1 AP distribution for the relavent Enhancement lines or is the 7/6/6 distribution a must?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedDragonScale View Post
    cforce,

    For an Artificer, do you recommend the standard 7/1/1 AP distribution for the relavent Enhancement lines or is the 7/6/6 distribution a must?
    Depends on the build, if you go full DPS, I'd say 7/6/6 in lighting and 7/1/1 force, but if you go full caster with strong dps I'd say 7/6/6 force and 7/1/1 lightning. Perchance even drop off lighting all together if you only want the caster stuff and go with Lucid Dream rather than Toven's.

    I'm going 7/6/6 lighting and 7/1/1 force when I TR into an Arti.


    EDIT: Also, thanks a lot for the info Cforce, great as always. I've been waiting for some numbers on charge time and stuff like that. Have you clocked it to 6 seconds, or is that just an estimate?
    If you haven't, could you please clock it as accurately as possible? I'd be great for future DPS calcs.

    EDIT 2: Just for everyone's knowledge, I've done some VERY rough calculations on Artificers and their DPS is quite respectable. Assuming the same thing I assume for melees (full gear and stuff) they're looking at around 450 DPS, if the rune arm charges each 6 seconds. That's quite strong, indeed, and while it's still behind kensais, fbs and rogues, it is not THAT far behind. Especially not when the fort increases. (These are without counting the pet (I have no idea how much that one gives) and once again, they are VERY rough and the DPS could be 100s away from what it really is. I haven't trimmed the program for it, so I just did some head calcs without counting everything in.
    Last edited by Absolute-Omniscience; 11-24-2011 at 04:00 PM.
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    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    A-O,

    I was looking at the Force and Repair lines.

    I have Lucid Dreams and was looking to make that my main runearm.

    I wanted the Repair line so I could a) repair myself well and b) open a can of Deconstruct whoopass on the LoB.

    I was thinking of going 7/1/1 for both.

    Does that information change what you posted at all?
    Last edited by RedDragonScale; 11-24-2011 at 05:55 PM.

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    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    I'm in the progress of leveling my first Artificer as well so this info is great.

    Regarding enhancements, what is the reasoning behind going more than 7/1/1? From my investigations consequential investments into crit chance and damage only nets about a 1% increase in damage per rank. If this is true, there is probably much better enhancements to invest in (as Artificers have a lot of good enhancements to invest in).

    My rule of thumb up to now has been not to invest beyond 7/1/1 unless it is a prereq for something else (savant, for example).

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedDragonScale View Post
    A-O,

    I was looking at the Force and Repair lines.

    I have Lucid Dreams and was looking to make that my main runearm.

    I wanted the Repair line so I could a) repair myself well and b) open a can of Deconstruct whoopass on the LoB.

    I was thinking of going 7/1/1 for both.

    Does that information change what you posted at all?
    No, not really. 7/1/1 for both might be something I'll consider as well. It won't net the highest ranged DPS possible for an Arti, but it will be close enough, assuming you want some other fancy stuff as well.

    @Wax_on_Wax_off
    The reason for ever going 7/6/6 is because it is 10 aps for about 8-10% more damage, and that, is quite good actually. Of course it won't be +10% Dps since all your damage isn't lightning, but it'll still be around 3% ranged DPS - which imo, is quite significant if you are striving for ranged DPS close to the melee dps of "real" dps builds.
    Last edited by Absolute-Omniscience; 11-25-2011 at 02:48 AM.
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    My current thinking on the different enhancement lines goes this way:

    First, allocate 1 action point in any line for any rune arm you might be using in the end-game. I really favor flexibility, and there are good reasons to want to use electric, acid, force, or fire-based rune arms situationally. (As I think about this, this probably deserves a rationale in the OP -- I'll go back and add my thoughts on this there sometime this week when I have more time available.)

    To start, each of these areas gets 1 AP. The 20% damage boost for 1 AP is so cheap that it's something I want, even for rune arms I only use once in a while.

    Then, if I have enough left, I like to bump 2 lines up to 7/1/1 -- for me, this is force and electric, since they overlap well with base spell damage. This gives me two different damage types to have "close to maximum DPS", so that I don't get stuck in a situation where my one "DPS of choice" hits an immunity.

    After all of the above, at a lower priority, I'll bump the crit lines from 1/1 to higher values, but only if I'm running out of other things to spend the AP on. The value-per-action-point here is definitely less than the 9 points that went into the initial 7/1/1 investment, so I'll focus on other areas for a more balanced character build before coming back and "topping off" DPS.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    EDIT: Also, thanks a lot for the info Cforce, great as always. I've been waiting for some numbers on charge time and stuff like that. Have you clocked it to 6 seconds, or is that just an estimate?
    If you haven't, could you please clock it as accurately as possible? I'd be great for future DPS calcs.
    At the point where I have an artificer that can use tier 5 rune arms, I may be able to clock it more specifically, although the software I used to use for that isn't installed on my current laptop.

    The 6 seconds figure is pretty rough -- I pulled it from some posted videos, but there's always a chance that the video capture software used sped things up (or slowed them down) by some amount. That being said, the delta there on video capture software are usually less than 5%, so it's unlikely that it's, say, 7. But a true value anywhere between 5.5 and 6.5 wouldn't surprise me.

    If anyone else out there is reading this, it would be nice to see how long it takes you to charge and fire a tier 5 blast, say, 30 times. Turn auto-charge on and try to fire as soon as possible after charged. That would give a slight "human delay" over perfectly-timed firing, but that's probably a more realistic value, anyway!
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    Uber Completionist Lithic's Avatar
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    I couldn't imagine using any other rune arm than Lucid Dreams. Its the most damage to everything as it is the only 5 tier spray-shot, and it even does damage to everything except crateos, and few monsters have any resistance at all. I've used all the other ones and they left much to be desired in my style of play.

    One thing to remmeber about the spray-shot runearms is that when you fire at tier 4 on small-medium immobile targets, very often 2 of them will spin around your target and not hit. This makes the black dragon runarm and tier 4 charged lucid dreams do about half damage to such opponents like humanoid archers and casters.

    One interesting note is that if something dies just before the runearm hits, the spray-shots spin around where they use to be, acting as a land mine for a few seconds. Monsters that move into this space will be hit with all remaining shots, but its short lived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithic View Post
    I couldn't imagine using any other rune arm than Lucid Dreams. Its the most damage to everything as it is the only 5 tier spray-shot, and it even does damage to everything except crateos, and few monsters have any resistance at all. I've used all the other ones and they left much to be desired in my style of play.
    Lithic, this is fully "form what I know/have been told", as I'm still leveling up my arti (only about 5 hours of play-time per week makes for a ong time leveling up a TR ) but:

    (A) Glorious Obscenity is a tier 5 spray shot as well, which lists more damage than Lucid Dreams (assuming both are equally enhanced). Granted, a lot more things are immune to acid, but I just wanted to get clarification on what you meant by "it's the only 5 tier spray shot". Is there a piece of info I'm missing?

    (B) Thoerietically, Toven's Hammer is also a 5-shot tier 5 weapon which does more damage, as well. What did you mean by "its the most damage to everything"? Are you just pointing out that Toven's Hammer, while higher damage, won't work against certain key enemies? Or, am I missing something about Toven's Hammer that causes it to do less damage than I think?
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    Uber Completionist Lithic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    Lithic, this is fully "form what I know/have been told", as I'm still leveling up my arti (only about 5 hours of play-time per week makes for a ong time leveling up a TR ) but:

    (A) Glorious Obscenity is a tier 5 spray shot as well, which lists more damage than Lucid Dreams (assuming both are equally enhanced). Granted, a lot more things are immune to acid, but I just wanted to get clarification on what you meant by "it's the only 5 tier spray shot". Is there a piece of info I'm missing?


    (B) Thoerietically, Toven's Hammer is also a 5-shot tier 5 weapon which does more damage, as well. What did you mean by "its the most damage to everything"? Are you just pointing out that Toven's Hammer, while higher damage, won't work against certain key enemies? Or, am I missing something about Toven's Hammer that causes it to do less damage than I think?
    A) Forgot about that one, so assuming your info on it being a tier 5 is accurate, you aren't missing anything heh. As for "its the most damage to everything" I should have said its the most damage to everything with the rune arms I've collected. Especially considering how inaccurate the I was with the other styles.

    B) Toven's is a tier 5 lightning ball, but fully charged only produces 4 hits. I tested this one quite a bit, and used it all the time when I fought Crateos (as he's immune to lucid dreams) and never got more than 4 hits. I really hoped this one would be better than Lucid dreams considering how fun it was to link it in guild chat to bug Tink, but even if the lightning strike stacks with my lit2 repeater, the lack of the 5th blast meant lucid was better. I think the 5th charge might make the hits AOE, but I can't be sure. Note this was when artificers first came out, so U12 may have changed things. I don't have tovens on anyone who can use them right now to test again.
    Last edited by Lithic; 11-27-2011 at 12:00 PM.
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    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    This is ALL very interesting reading guys, thanks for some insights!

    I had another question regarding the Rune Arm Overcharge I & II enhancements. Is it worth the 6 APs to be able to keep your rune arm charges stable up to charge tier III?

    Just HOW worth it is it? Will my DPS be hurt too horribly much by not having those enhancements?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithic View Post
    B) Toven's is a tier 5 lightning ball, but fully charged only produces 4 hits. I tested this one quite a bit, and used it all the time when I fought Crateos (as he's immune to lucid dreams) and never got more than 4 hits. I really hoped this one would be better than Lucid dreams considering how fun it was to link it in guild chat to bug Tink, but even if the lightning strike stacks with my lit2 repeater, the lack of the 5th blast meant lucid was better. I think the 5th charge might make the hits AOE, but I can't be sure. Note this was when artificers first came out, so U12 may have changed things. I don't have tovens on anyone who can use them right now to test again.
    That's a bummer. Did you check and see if it did any more damage per hit then? Maybe it was only 4 bolts but each one did 25% more damage?
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    Community Member zealous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    (These are without counting the pet (I have no idea how much that one gives)
    Currently have mine with imp.evasion thus loosing out a lot due to the stupid mutt insisting on spamming bluff as soon as it is off cd.

    Practical estimation by wailing on non-helpless dummy with hjeest, bulls, rage, good hope and +1 vicious of pg module is ~45DPS.
    Missing among others:
    ~3s every 15s due to bluff
    last tier str enhancement
    12 damage sneak attack
    4 +5 module
    ~10 ish from better suffix
    8 bard

    So I reckon you could easily get it up to ~100...with "self buffed" 80+ very easily attainable AC and 600-700ish hp

    Attack rate slightly higer than 1/s
    --------------------------------
    Also, rune arm should preferably be shot during reload, quickly followed by a quickened spell. Try it

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    Uber Completionist Lithic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolute-Omniscience View Post
    That's a bummer. Did you check and see if it did any more damage per hit then? Maybe it was only 4 bolts but each one did 25% more damage?
    I vaguely remember the toven's blasts doing about the same as the lucid dreams bolts. It's been a while though, someone else should test it out in U12.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Great thread cforce.

    So if I am doing my math correctly the adjusted Toven's Blast at L20 with clickies (not eardweller) is ~247 dps (assuming mobs saves are poor).

    Lucid dreams weighs in pretty close to that from the math I am doing (from only a rune arm shot perspective not overall dps).

    Oh what exactly is the DC for rune arm shots formula? Mainly looking to see if there is any spell level and caster school that is attached to the shots for DC purposes.
    Last edited by Cyr; 11-28-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Great thread cforce.

    So if I am doing my math correctly the adjusted Toven's Blast at L20 with clickies (not eardweller) is ~247 dps (assuming mobs saves are poor).

    Lucid dreams weighs in pretty close to that from the math I am doing (from only a rune arm shot perspective not overall dps).

    Oh what exactly is the DC for rune arm shots formula? Mainly looking to see if there is any spell level and caster school that is attached to the shots for DC purposes.
    To be precise, we probably need to have a better understanding of (a) exactly what the difference is between Toven's tier IV and Toven's tier V, and (b) if the best Toven's DPS is to charge to tier 4 and fire, what *that* cycle time looks like. But I'd guess you're in the ballpark.

    DC is a bit of a mystery at the moment. Since the rune arm blasts are treated as spells of a level one higher than the blast tier, the guesses have been along the lines of:

    10 + INT bonus + effective spell level + [maybe evocation feat and item bonuses]... but there's an existing thread citing some values from testing that are higher than that. I'm going to be adding my own testing into the mix the next chance I get, to try to puzzle out what the other factors might be.
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    I'm also finding it difficult to slot a lore item since the easier to get lore items slot to weapon slots. I guess at cap that won't be as much of a problem...Greater Lore is fairly easy to craft (especially for a 20 arti who starts out with a base of 11 crafting levels) and Major isn't terrible...but pre-cap this is an issue.

    If you can't slot a lore item then the crit lines become much less attractive. 9% chance of 1.75x damage is an increase of 6.75%. It's only when you stack that with the 9%/1.5x from an item that it becomes interesting (goes from 1.0675x damage to 1.225x damage - an increase of about 14.75% over the crit line alone or of 17% over the item alone). So unless you're keeping a lore item slotted the crit lines, beyond a single point, aren't very worthwhile.

    Again though, this mostly affects lower level arti's. At cap you can afford to craft the appropriate Lore on to each rune arm and since the ML can't go beyond 20 it won't delay the item's use. That does of course take away the ability to craft something like +2/+4 attack bonus, etc, but I think you'll get more use out of the lore if you're not able to slot it elsewhere.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    To be precise, we probably need to have a better understanding of (a) exactly what the difference is between Toven's tier IV and Toven's tier V, and (b) if the best Toven's DPS is to charge to tier 4 and fire, what *that* cycle time looks like. But I'd guess you're in the ballpark.

    DC is a bit of a mystery at the moment. Since the rune arm blasts are treated as spells of a level one higher than the blast tier, the guesses have been along the lines of:

    10 + INT bonus + effective spell level + [maybe evocation feat and item bonuses]... but there's an existing thread citing some values from testing that are higher than that. I'm going to be adding my own testing into the mix the next chance I get, to try to puzzle out what the other factors might be.
    Nod, good point about the charge time to tier 4 and the unknown factor of charge tier 4 to 5 on that particular rune arm shot.
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