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  1. #1
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default 6 Monkcher builds

    Edit: For an up to date list of all of my builds make sure to look at the build index rather than this OP.

    This thread has evolved some. Below are some 7 builds centered around the theme of 10k stars Monk/Arcane Archer.

    The first build is available here and is a 12 monk/6 ranger/2 fighter which is the general norm for the theme. I've just added a /2 Artificer variant with no fail heal scrolls, not sure which I like better.

    Second build is a 11 ranger variant which again is designed to have more AB and ends up being quite exploiteresque with full trap skills and self healing versatility (with wand and scroll mastery and healing amp). This is a 36 point variant that I'm currently playing (or have recently currently played depending on if I update this :P).

    This build is an Arcane Archer rogue. It looks way better than I thought it would when I started writing it and I'd say it is actually "viable" rather than "flavour". This is a MKII based on accessing AA with a sorc PL and no blue bar.

    For the fourth build I wanted to do a 12 fighter kensei version but I simply don't like the feat constraints excluding TWF'ing. If I wanted a fighter themed build then I would refer to Arsont's Fad which is a really nice build.

    The fifth build is a Radiant Servant Archer. I've got a lot of history with this style of build so it's interesting to see how the paradigm looks with the changes to 10k stars.

    The final build that is a 12 FvS/6 monk/2 fighter build which looks to be the best split for a FvS AA ATM.

    Epic thoughts.
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 09-15-2012 at 05:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default [insert appropriate name of build here]

    Turns out that Elf is gimp even for Archer builds due to the difficulty in qualifying for Master of Stones. In light of that I'm replacing the build with the build in my other thread which I'll TR into shortly (TM).

    To convert this build to a first life character simply drop strength by 1 and replace Extend and Past Life: Soldier of the Faith with GTWF and (possibly) Quickdraw. Alternatively you could drop those 2 feats and swap 2 Fighter for 2 Rogue (for possible trap skills and wand and scroll mastery). +2 dex tome at least is required for IPS and a +2 int tome is very desirable for extra skills.

    Concept/Goals: 10,000 Stars Archer
    Class: 12 monk / 6 ranger / 2 fighter
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    Multiclass progression: 1-6: Ranger, 7-12: Monk, 13-14 fighter, 15-20 monk

    Stats and Race (34pt build): Half-Elf
    Str: 30 (15 base +1 fighter +1 greater adaptability +2 tome +6 item +3 exceptional +2 rage +2 madstone -2 water stance )
    Dex: 23 (16 base +2 tome +1 level +6 item -2 earth)
    Con: 32 (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 rage +4 madstone +3 earth III +1 exceptional con)
    Int: 10 (8 base +2 tome)
    Wis: 45 (16 base +4 levels +2 tome +4 enhancements +7 item +3 exceptional +2 alchemical +3 water stance +2 yugo +2 ship)
    Cha: 16 (8 base +2 tome +6 item)
    32/36 point build: Drop or raise strength. Drop dexterity with access to +3 dex tome.
    Ability increase every 4 levels: 1 in dexterity (for IPS), rest in wisdom

    Skills: Concentration, Balance, UMD, Tumble (1), left overs in move silently

    Feats (by level): Past Life: Paladin (1), Point Blank Shot (1), Past Life: Soldier of the Faith (3), Extend Spell (6), Zen Archery (9), Precise Shot (12), Weapon Focus: Ranged (15), Mental Toughness (18)
    Feats (monk): Toughness (7), Stunning Fist (8), Dodge (12)
    Feats (fighter): Improved Precise Shot (13), Improved Critical: Ranged (14)
    Feats (ranger bonus): Favoured Enemy: Evil Outsider (1), FE: Construct (6)

    Undead will be a FE until swapping to EO after Necro 4.

    Enhancements (Monk): Ninja Spy I (4), Static Charge (2), Improved Jump II (2), Improved Tumble II (2), Ninja Spy II (2), Way of the Patient Tortoise (3), Master of Sea (5), Master of Stone (5), Adept of Wind (2), 10,000 Stars (1), Wisdom II (6), Improved Recovery I (2), Porous Soul (2)
    Enhancements (Ranger): Sprint Boost I (1), Favoured Damage II (3),
    Enhancements (Fighter): Strength I (2), Toughness I (1), Haste Boost I (1)
    Enhancements (Half-Elf): Arcane Archer I (4), Conjure +5 Arrows (4), Slayer Arrows (5), Racial Toughness II (3), Improved Rogue Dilettante I (2), Versatility III (6), Adaptability: Strength (2), Improved Recovery I (2)

    74 points spent so far. Not really enough points to take all the things that you want but just have to make do (missing 2 wisdom and 1d6 sneak attack most notably right now).

    Equipment:
    Head: Epic Helm of Mroranon
    Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw
    Cloak: Wretched Twilight
    Boots: Madstone Boots
    Trinket: Epic Gem of Many Facets
    Bracers: Windhowler Bracers
    Belt: GS MinII +45 HP Belt
    Necklace: Shintao Cord
    Goggles: Epic Raven's Sight
    Armour: Epic Frozen Tunic (toughness)
    Ring1: Epic Ring of the Stalker
    Ring2: Kyosho's Ring (+2 exceptional strength)
    Weapons: Epic Bow of Earth, Epic Thornlord, LitII GS Bow

    Details:
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 12-19-2011 at 09:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default [insert another appropriate name here]

    Concept/Goals: A monkcher which sacrifices some possible DPS for better AB, versatility and utility.
    Class: 11 ranger / 6 monk / 3 Artificer
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    Multiclass progression: 1: Ranger, 2: Artificer, 3: Ranger, 4-9: Monk, 10: Artificer, 11-14: Ranger, 15: Artificer, 16-20: Ranger

    Stats and Race (32pt build): Half-Elf

    Str: 24 (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 rage +2 rams might -2 water stance)
    Dex: 22 (13 base +3 tome +6 item)
    Con: 24 (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 rage)
    Int: 16 (13 base +3 tome)
    Wis: 34 (16 base +5 levels +1 greater adaptability +2 tome +6 item +2 monk +2 water stance)
    Cha: 10 (8 base +2 tome)
    34 point build: 14 dex/int or 36 point build: 16 strength.
    Ability increase every 4 levels: All in wisdom (or strength).

    Skills: Concentration, Balance (10), UMD, Move Silently, Search, Disable Device, Tumble (1), left overs in spot.

    Feats (by level): Dilettante: Rogue (1), Weapon Focus: Ranged (1), Point Blank Shot (3), Precision (6), Quickdraw (9), Improved Critical: Ranged (12), Improved Critical: Bludgeoning (18)
    Feats (monk): Toughness (4), Stunning Fist (5), Zen Archery (9)

    Feat swaps: Manyshot at 9, swap to Quickdraw before taking Ranger 6. Improved Precise Shot at 15, swap to ??? before taking Ranger 11.
    Dodge could be added instead of Quickdraw to go darkside.
    IC:B is primarily for Nightmare or Radiance handwraps.
    There is considerable feat flexibility here if more toughness is desired (if you swing that way) or if you have relevant past lives - I'll particularly look forward to putting Past Life: Soldier of the Faith in.

    Enhancements (Ranger): Favoured Damage/Attack/Saves/AC, Skills Boost IV, Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancements (Monk): Adept of Rocks, Adept of Rain, Monk Wisdom II, Adept of Water, 10k stars, Clever Monkey (for leveling, swap to patient tortoise at some stage)
    Enhancements (Artificer): Wand and Scroll Mastery I, Improved UMD I, Damage Boost I
    Enhancements (Half-Elf): Human Versatility IV, Adaptability: Wisdom, Improved Rogue Dilettante II

    Equipment: See other 10k stars threads for gear ideas.

    Variant: F2P variant (with access to monk class) would be 3 rogue (can drop dex down to 12 with a +2 tome for 10k stars), elf race (or artificer dilettante first then swap to something else - cleric until no fail heal scrolls or barbarian), rogue at level 1 for skills, mental toughness instead of quickdraw.

    Summary: Same issues as above addressed with a different class split for more AB. The additional feats and access to extra action boost I might overcome a lot of the DPS shortfalls. The versatility from more useful ranger spells is a nice perk.
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 07-12-2012 at 05:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default

    All 10k stars monkcher builds have similar attributes:
    1. Low AB due to MADness
    2. A useful AC in a lot of content
    3. A useful stunning fist DC in most content (10 base +10 levels +10 wraps +5 epic sparehand +wisdom modificer +possibly stunning blow enhancements).
    4. Ki generation issues forcing you to go to melee or struggle to generate Ki from secondary sources (earth I+/wind stance III+, philosophy of the tenacious badger).

    Not anything else that I can think of, anyone want to add to this?

  5. #5
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    Hello,

    Pretty spot on for the different "top choice", arcane archer have if they want 10k stars.
    It is just sad that dps wise those builds are very far from the helf angel.

    Don't get me wrong, 10k stars is a very nice addition. It provides a second button when burst dps is needed on multiple / unreachable target.

    Unfortunately, for arcane archer builds, since the range dps is only 30%-50% of the melee DPS, we need to shoot an average 3 arrows to use 10k stars over melee vs a single target boss.

    From the numbers I saw, I'm not sure we got those 3 average arrows with 10k stars.
    It is still ms + melee rotation versus boss, nothing new.

    Bow users have less and less choice:
    - be pure ranger
    or pick elf/helf (one race suck the other requires money)
    - have at least 6 lvl of fighter or ranger to take the range feats and not suck at melee
    - take 6 lvl of monk (be loyal) if you want 10k stars ...

  6. #6
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kaobang View Post
    Hello,

    Pretty spot on for the different "top choice", arcane archer have if they want 10k stars.
    It is just sad that dps wise those builds are very far from the helf angel.

    Don't get me wrong, 10k stars is a very nice addition. It provides a second button when burst dps is needed on multiple / unreachable target.

    Unfortunately, for arcane archer builds, since the range dps is only 30%-50% of the melee DPS, we need to shoot an average 3 arrows to use 10k stars over melee vs a single target boss.

    From the numbers I saw, I'm not sure we got those 3 average arrows with 10k stars.
    It is still ms + melee rotation versus boss, nothing new.

    Bow users have less and less choice:
    - be pure ranger
    or pick elf/helf (one race suck the other requires money)
    - have at least 6 lvl of fighter or ranger to take the range feats and not suck at melee
    - take 6 lvl of monk (be loyal) if you want 10k stars ...
    Technically you only need 18 ranger to get slayer arrows. This is a fine choice as a monk and fighter level (for instance) can bring quite a lot to an Arcane Archer.

    The jury is still out on the usefulness of 10k stars. However, from what I've read there are enough extra arrows that it could at least equal melee DPS while active. More in depth testing is necessary.

    Helves to cost money but they are one of the best races in the game for a lot of builds (including archer builds).

    Elves do suck but in the above build at least I've tried to show that they can compete with helves which has to say something.

    The update to 10k stars has broadened possibilities. 6 monk might become an option on some builds rather than the 6 ranger or fighter. It isn't as hard to not suck at melee as you make out either; you need at least one feat - power attack - an optional second - improved critical - and the patience to learn how to twitch properly with a two handed weapon.

    The thing that I really want to know is how much on an increase in DPS a point of wisdom modifier represents. My current theory says something like 1.11% after being halved for duration is taken into account which would probably mean that at some level of gear - close to being fully epicced out - an increase in wisdom might see an increase in overall DPS higher than what you'd get from ansimilar increase in strength.

  7. #7

    Default

    Hey WoWo,

    Nice work and reasoning.

    I have a few builds in this thread you may find interesting.

  8. #8
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Default

    Your first build has Earth 3, but starts with 12 CON and only puts a +2 tome in with no levels, you need base 16 CON for Earth 3.

    Otherwise it looks much like the Hong Kong Pewy.

    You're also forgetting about passive ki generation in water 3+, which would largely solve the 10k stars problem.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  9. #9
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    Default

    thanks for the replies

    You're correct that you only need 18 lvl of ranger for slayer arrows.
    However you have to beat the 5th FE (+5 dmg) and the capstone bonus with the 2 feats from ftr/monk.

    Elves do suck but in the above build at least I've tried to show that they can compete with helves which has to say something.
    My apologies to the elf community, my words were not adequate.
    Elf are good for range, they provide +2 base dmg and +3 dex (2 at creation +1 enh compared to helf).
    But half elf provides the dili, human vitality: 25% dmg (base +SA) for 20s (5 times).

    from what I've read there are enough extra arrows that it could at least equal melee DPS while active.
    DPS is hard to estimate, what do you consider a good/average dps for an arcane archer in melee / range modes (without ms) ?

    I may be wrong but I see the melee dps between 2 and 3 times the range dps.
    That's why I said that we should fire an average of 3 arrows per shot to reach the same dps as if we melee.

  10. #10
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default Starry-eyed Rouge

    Concept/Goals: 10,000 Stars Archer Rogue
    Class: 13 Rogue / 6 Monk / 1 Artificer (or wizard)
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    Multiclass progression: 1: Rogue, 2-7 Monk, 8-12 Rogue, 13 Artificer, 14-20 Rogue

    Stats and Race (36pt build): Half-Elf
    Str: 26/30 (13 base +3 tome +6 item +2 madstone -2 water stance/+2 fire stance +2 ship +2 yugo +2 rage)
    Dex: 34 (16 base +2 level up +3 tome +6 item +3 rogue +2 exceptional +2 yugo +2 ship buff)
    Con: 22 (14 base +2 tome +6 item)
    Int: 16 (13 base +3 tome)
    Wis: 40 (16 base +4 levels +2 tome +3 enhancements +2 water stance +7 item +2 exceptional +2 yugo +2 ship buff)
    Cha: 18 (8 base +2 tome +6 item)
    variations: Goal is to hit 26 strength to max out strength shot in water stance (so quite some flexibility here). Extra build points should go towards maximising wisdom or as desired (perhaps intelligence to maximise skills better). Use 1 level up in dexterity if no +3 dex tome.
    13 strength/13 intelligence was to qualify for Artificer Dilettante at level 1 for ease of leveling, this isn't an optimal choice at end game but that can be rectified in a number of ways.
    32 point build: Drop int to 8, dex to 16 and increase strength to 14 (as a possibility)
    Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Wisdom (preferably)

    Skills: Concentration (23), Disable Device (20), Search (20), UMD (23), Spot (8), Open Lock (10), Diplomacy (23), Tumble (1), Jump (10)

    The above is with a starting int of 10. I think I'll go with 14 to fit in hide/move silently and bluff for some tactical play.

    Feats (by level): Dilettante: Ranger (1), Point Blank Shot (1), Rapid Shot (3), Weapon Focus: Ranged (6), Manyshot (9), Improved Critical: Ranged (12), Precise Shot (15), Improved Precise Shot (18)
    Feats (monk): Precision (2), Toughness (3), Zen Archery (7)
    Feats (rogue bonus): Improved Evasion (17), Opportunist (20)

    Ranged feats fit perfectly with absolutely 0 wiggle room. There isn't even that much flexibility in order. Importantly, everything that should be in there is in there and that is what matters.

    Enhancements (Rogue): Acrobat II (+prereqs), Haste/Damage Boost, Extra Action Boost I, Sneak Attack Training, Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    Enhancements (Monk): Way of the Patient Tortoise II (3), Adept of Sea/Rock/Air (6), 10,000 Stars (1), Wisdom II (6), Improved Recovery I (2)
    Enhancements (Artificer): Energy of the Creation I (1)
    Enhancements (Half-Elf): Arcane Archer I (4), Conjure +5 Arrows (4), Slayer Arrows (5), Racial Toughness II (3), Improved Ranger Dilettante III (6), Versatility III (6), Adaptability: Wisdom (2), Improved Recovery I (2)

    Equipment:
    Usual stuff but importantly this build could use a (epic) Staff of Nat-Gann quite well (for the AC). This build should be able to manage untouchable AC while leveling. For ideas on this have a look at This and to a lesser extent this for an idea of what is possible. I think maintaining AC while leveling and possibly even at end game will really make this build shine when you have the flexibility to grab and hold aggro using 10k stars/manyshot without dying which will minimise party resource use.

    Variants:
    1 wizard is a fine substitute for 1 Artificer, just lose 2 UMD and 1 CL on scrolls. If the character has a PL:Paladin Wizard might be a better choice to take extend spell and then give up Improved Critical: Ranged for Past Life: Soldier of the Faith (not sure if that works out DPS wise or not).

    I'm still torn on the choice between light side and dark side. I'd like to try dark side for the passive Ki regen while stealthing but that would mean giving up precision which is looking like a crucial rogue feat in U14 so I'll probably be stuck as light path.

    Equipment:
    Head: Epic Helm of Mroranon
    Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw
    Cloak: Wretched Twilight
    Boots: Madstone Boots
    Trinket: Epic Gem of Many Facets
    Bracers: Windhowler Bracers
    Belt: GS MinII +45 HP Belt
    Necklace: Shintao Cord/Gilvaenor's Necklace
    Goggles: Epic Raven's Sight
    Armour: Epic Frozen Tunic (toughness)
    Ring1: Epic Ring of the Stalker
    Ring2: Kyosho's Ring (+2 con)/Gilvaenor's Ring (20% heal amp)
    Weapons: Epic Bow of Earth, Epic Thornlord, LitII GS Bow, Flametouched Iron/Earth/Water/Earth/? (+7 I guess)

    +1 exceptional wisdom slotted (or not if no +3 dex tome).

    Details:
    UMD: 23 base +3 charisma +2 artificer +4 GH = 32 ... hmm, not likely to get standing no fail heal scrolls (+2 GL, +3 spyglass, +3 golden cartouche = 40).
    HP: 20 base+13*6 rogue+6 arti+6*8 monk+22 toughness+20 racial+10 tortoise+10 barb PL+10 draconic+20*6 con+30 GLF+20 minos+45 GS+20 guild augment=20+13*6+6+6*8+22+20+10+10+10+20*6+30+20+45 +20=459. +20 rage+20 ship buff+40 madstone+20 earth stance+40 yugo=599. +10 racial toughness III+40 +3 exceptional con/+1 adaptability+10 stalwart trinket=659

    Summary:
    I'm actually quite surprised how well this build looks like it will work. It doesn't have any melee feats but melee will only occur 1/4 of the time so it isn't missed too much. 10k stars/Manyshot will be a brutal combination with rogue sneak attack making this a very high DPS build (especially once you get wisdom up).
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 07-21-2012 at 09:46 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default Angel of Over 9,000 Stars

    Angel of Over 9,000 Stars
    Concept/Goals: 10,000 Stars Angel of Vengeance Arcane Archer
    Class: 12 Favoured Soul / 6 Monk / 2 fighter
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    Multiclass progression: 1: Monk, 2-13 FvS, 14-15 fighter, 16-20 monk.

    Stats and Race (32pt build): Half-Elf
    Str: 26 (12 base +2 tome +6 item +2 rage -2 water stance +2 ship +3 Abishai +1 fighter)
    Dex: 26 (16 base +2 levels +3 tome +6 item +1 exceptional)
    Con: 24 (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 rage)
    Int: 12 (10 base +2 tome)
    Wis: 34 (16 base +4 levels +2 tome +4 enhancements +2 water stance +6 item)
    Cha: 17 (8 base +2 tome +7 item)
    34 point build: Strength to 14
    Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Wisdom

    Skills: Concentration, UMD, Tumble (1), left overs in Move Silently, Balance (5-10)

    Feats (by level): Dilettante: Ranger (1), Point Blank Shot (1), Maximise (3), Precise Shot (6), Rapid Shot (9), Manyshot (12), Mental Toughness (15), Improved Critical: Ranged (18), Combat Archery (21), Strength Shot (24)
    Feats (monk): Toughness (1), Zen Archery (14), Precision (18)
    Feats (fighter): Weapon Focus: Ranged (14), Improved Precise Shot (15)

    This gets AA and IPS at 15 but no IC:R or 10k stars until later, sacrifices either way.
    Swap Dilettante: Ranger to Rogue at level 24 when you take Strength Shot or could swap feats around to take Stunning Fist.

    Enhancements (FvS): Angel of Vengeance (+prereqs), max life enhancements, wisdom II, Wand and Scroll Mastery IV, Smiting (4/2/2), Toughness II
    Enhancements (Monk): Way of the Patient Tortoise II (3), Adept of Sea (2), Adept of Stone (2), Adept of Wind (2), 10,000 Stars (1), Wisdom II (6), Improved Recovery I (2)
    Enhancements (Fighter): Strength I, Haste Boost I
    Enhancements (Half-Elf): Arcane Archer I (4), Conjure +5 Arrows (4), Slayer Arrows (5), Racial Toughness II (3), Improved Ranger Dilettante III (6), Versatility III (6), Adaptability: Strength (2), Improved Recovery I (2), Greater Adaptability: Wisdom

    Equipment:
    Head: Epic Helm of Frost
    Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw
    Cloak: Epic Envenomed Cloak
    Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion
    Trinket: Epic Gem of Many Facets
    Bracers: Windhowler Bracers
    Belt: GS MinII +45 HP Belt
    Necklace: Gilvaenor's Necklace/Shintao Cord
    Goggles: Epic Raven's Sight
    Body: Blue Dragonscale
    Ring1: Epic Ring of the Stalker
    Ring2: Gilvaenor's Ring (+2 exceptional strength)/Kyosho's ring (Holy Burst)
    Weapons: Epic Bow of Earth, Epic Thornlord, Earth/Water Alchemic Bow, LitII GS Bow, Air/Water Alchemical Handwraps

    Summary:
    Always difficult to make divine AAs work but they are super fun to play and level at least.
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 08-17-2012 at 11:00 AM.

  12. #12
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    Your first build has Earth 3, but starts with 12 CON and only puts a +2 tome in with no levels, you need base 16 CON for Earth 3.

    Otherwise it looks much like the Hong Kong Pewy.

    You're also forgetting about passive ki generation in water 3+, which would largely solve the 10k stars problem.
    I only just noticed this post but you're dead right. Looks like Elf offers nothing that Half-elf can't do better. I'm replacing the build with my build from another thread which I will TR into (probably very close if not identical to Hong-Kong-Pewy but the intention wasn't to be original but to iron out the details before I TR into it).

  13. #13
    Community Member SpearKicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Concept/Goals: 10,000 Stars Archer Rogue
    Class: 13 Rogue / 6 Monk / 1 Wizard
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    Multiclass progression: 1: Rogue, 2-7 Monk, 8-10 Rogue, 11 Wizard, 12-20 Rogue

    Stats and Race (32pt build): Half-Elf
    Str: 23/27 (14 base +1 greater adaptability +2 tome +6 item +2 rage -2 water stance/+2 fire stance)
    Dex: 26 (16 base +2 tome +1 level +6 item +3 rogue)
    Con: 24 (14 base +2 tome +6 item +2 rage)
    Int: 10 (8 base +2 tome)
    Wis: 33 (16 base +4 levels +2 tome +3 enhancements +2 water stance +6 item)
    Cha: 16 (8 base +2 tome +6 item)
    34/36 point build: Raise strength. Drop dexterity with access to +3 dex tome.
    Ability increase every 4 levels: 1 in Dexterity (for IPS), rest in Wisdom

    Skills: Concentration, Disable Device, Search, Spot, Bluff, UMD, Tumble (1), left overs in Move Silently, Balance (5)

    Feats (by level): Dilettante: Ranger (1), Point Blank Shot (1), Rapid Shot (3), Weapon Focus: Ranged (6), Precise Shot (9), Manyshot (12), Improved Critical: Ranged (15), Improved Precise Shot (18)
    Feats (monk): Toughness (7), Zen Archery (8), Dodge (12)
    Feats (wizard): Extend Spell or Mental Toughness (11)
    Feats (rogue bonus): Improved Evasion (17), Opportunist (20)

    Feats fit perfectly with absolutely 0 wiggle room. There isn't even that much flexibility in order. Importantly, everything that should be in there is in there and that is what matters.

    Enhancements (Rogue): Acrobat II (+prereqs), Haste/Damage Boost, Extra Action Boost, Sneak Attack Training, Wand and Scroll Mastery
    Enhancements (Monk): Ninja Spy I (4), Static Charge (2), Improved Jump II (2), Improved Tumble II (2), Way of the Patient Tortoise II (3), Adept of Sea (2), Adept of Fire (2), Adept of Wind (2), 10,000 Stars (1), Wisdom II (6), Improved Recovery I (2), Porous Soul (2)
    Enhancements (Wizard): Energy of the Scholar I (1)
    Enhancements (Half-Elf): Arcane Archer I (4), Conjure +5 Arrows (4), Slayer Arrows (5), Racial Toughness II (3), Improved Ranger Dilettante III (6), Versatility III (6), Adaptability: Strength (2), Improved Recovery I (2)

    Equipment:
    Usual stuff but importantly this build could use a (epic) Staff of Nat-Gann quite well (and other dex mod staves).

    Summary:
    I'm actually quite surprised how well this build looks like it will work. It doesn't have any melee feats (power attack would be really nice to have) but melee will only occur 1/4 of the time so it isn't missed too much. 10k stars/Manyshot will be a brutal combination with rogue sneak attack making this a very high DPS build (especially once you get wisdom up).

    I'd be very tempted to do a PL of this on my archer just to try it out.


    Love this idea. I am playing a Monk12/ranger6/fighter2 (earth 3), currently at level 16 now. Maybe I would try this rogue build next life...

    Please, if you do try it, tell us how it goes...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearKicker View Post
    Love this idea. I am playing a Monk12/ranger6/fighter2 (earth 3), currently at level 16 now. Maybe I would try this rogue build next life...

    Please, if you do try it, tell us how it goes...
    I have just created a toon using this build. Plan to use it running with a friend who is new to ddo. We will be on Khyber - my toon is Velnian nilQuendi.

  15. #15
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfuel1 View Post
    I have just created a toon using this build. Plan to use it running with a friend who is new to ddo. We will be on Khyber - my toon is Velnian nilQuendi.
    I had another look through the build. I didn't change anything besides including diplomacy as a possible skill but included some explanations on different aspects of the build which I hope are helpful.

    I'll be starting another TR in a week or so so feel free to look me up on Nilak or Adelaise (not sure who I'm TR'ing yet).

  16. #16
    Community Member SpearKicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I had another look through the build. I didn't change anything besides including diplomacy as a possible skill but included some explanations on different aspects of the build which I hope are helpful.

    I'll be starting another TR in a week or so so feel free to look me up on Nilak or Adelaise (not sure who I'm TR'ing yet).
    So, any news on this builds?

  17. #17
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearKicker View Post
    So, any news on this builds?
    What were you wanting to know?

    I'm sitting at level 20 enjoying raiding, gearing and challenges at the moment.

    When I unlock Artificer I'll TR my paladin into one before TR'ing an Archer build from above - probably the rogue one.

    Study, readjustment of priorities and my baby daughter have slowed down my schedule.

    I'd love to hear back from Lowfuel1 and anyone else who has tried the build.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    What were you wanting to know?

    I'm sitting at level 20 enjoying raiding, gearing and challenges at the moment.

    When I unlock Artificer I'll TR my paladin into one before TR'ing an Archer build from above - probably the rogue one.

    Study, readjustment of priorities and my baby daughter have slowed down my schedule.

    I'd love to hear back from Lowfuel1 and anyone else who has tried the build.
    So far I like it, but still at low level. It's not my main toon but one of several alts. So, nothing really to say atm.

  19. #19
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Continued from another thread....

    Looking at using Build #2 as a base, but I do have some concerns. This will be in comparison to an Elf 1 rogue...then 11 ranger...then 8 barbarian build. Here's a quick run-down from the planner...It is not perfectly tweaked for AP's, but you should get the idea

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Spiritadrft BowBarbian TR
    Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
    (8 Barbarian \ 1 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 362
    Spell Points: 250 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            15                    17
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence         14                    16
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                     Feat/Enhancement
                      Modified Skills
    Skills             (Level 20)
    Balance                 22
    Bluff                    0
    Concentration            4
    Diplomacy                0
    Disable Device          26
    Haggle                   0
    Heal                     0
    Hide                     3
    Intimidate               0
    Jump                    11
    Listen                   6
    Move Silently            3
    Open Lock                9
    Perform                  n/a
    Repair                   3
    Search                  28
    Spot                    17
    Swim                    10
    Tumble                   4
    Use Magic Device        23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
    I'm comparing your Build #2 to this one (which is the build we're leaning too for life #2) as it's the only one that will net another ranger past life in your examples. My wife's non-negotionable goal is 3 ranger lives 1st. We primarily Duo, RAID every once in a blue moon (DQ,DQ,DQ till we die or we pull torcs....I think death will come first ) We have zero greensteel, but are pretty nicely geared. Our goal for our 2nd life is to start running epics, which we have not yet done and raiding more (sigh...yes shroud,we're looking at you finally).

    For reference, I'm toying with the idea of this build for my side of the duo...
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...29#post4343429
    which offsets our skills for duoing nicely, or another melee-divine, which I am used too.

    My concerns with your 11/6/3 split (I agree with picking up the 3rd arti onstead of ranger 12) is mainly DPS and survivability. While your "uber" builds cover these flaws quite well with epic gear and yugo pots, I'm not sure this concept scales down that well. The choice of WIS over STR is fine....if you can make up for it in gearing...which a 1st, or even 2nd lifer's like us, just don't have access too....yet.

    Do you feel that your build can start running epics, assuming GS is aquired 1st, to farm for such things as Greater abashi, Epic Thornlord, Etc. ?

    I think I have you covered pretty well in skills...her current life (1rogue/11ranger/8bard) is all about utility,tricks, and songs for survivability, CC and DPS buffing, and we were trying to get away from the mad click and buffing playstyle, and move more to a zerg approach for leveling. Not a deal-breaker for us by any means...just saying..

    With +6/+6 rage (with a halfway decent duration) and STR level-ups, I'm not so sure the 10K's WIS-based DPS is better...considering the lack of to-hit/damage on the melee side. HP's are also a concern on this flavor of 10K. The extra d12 and toughness line from barb levels really help out here in ours.

    I like the concept for sure, but I think it really does require great gear pre-made and banked to be successful end-game elite/epic (from my limited forum-only understanding). For her 4th life, the 12 monk split with epic gear certainly looks sweet, but that's a long way off.

    I'm not disputing the build at all, in fact just the oposite...I'm looking at you to convince me

    Finally, It's really all pie in the sky if either of our builds will survive the enhancement pass coming this summer.

    Thanks for the time...
    ShadowFlash
    Last edited by ShadowFlash; 03-03-2012 at 09:12 PM.
    All the math your brain can handle concerning Divine Punishment
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344769

  20. #20
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    Continued from another thread....

    Looking at using Build #2 as a base, but I do have some concerns. This will be in comparison to an Elf 1 rogue...then 11 ranger...then 8 barbarian build. Here's a quick run-down from the planner...It is not perfectly tweaked for AP's, but you should get the idea

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Spiritadrft BowBarbian TR
    Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
    (8 Barbarian \ 1 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 362
    Spell Points: 250 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    23
    Dexterity            15                    17
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence         14                    16
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                     Feat/Enhancement
                      Modified Skills
    Skills             (Level 20)
    Balance                 22
    Bluff                    0
    Concentration            4
    Diplomacy                0
    Disable Device          26
    Haggle                   0
    Heal                     0
    Hide                     3
    Intimidate               0
    Jump                    11
    Listen                   6
    Move Silently            3
    Open Lock                9
    Perform                  n/a
    Repair                   3
    Search                  28
    Spot                    17
    Swim                    10
    Tumble                   4
    Use Magic Device        23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
    I'm comparing your Build #2 to this one (which is the build we're leaning too for life #2) as it's the only one that will net another ranger past life in your examples. My wife's non-negotionable goal is 3 ranger lives 1st. We primarily Duo, RAID every once in a blue moon (DQ,DQ,DQ till we die or we pull torcs....I think death will come first ) We have zero greensteel, but are pretty nicely geared. Our goal for our 2nd life is to start running epics, which we have not yet done and raiding more (sigh...yes shroud,we're looking at you finally).

    For reference, I'm toying with the idea of this build for my side of the duo...
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...29#post4343429
    which offsets our skills for duoing nicely, or another melee-divine, which I am used too.

    My concerns with your 11/6/3 split (I agree with picking up the 3rd arti onstead of ranger 12) is mainly DPS and survivability. While your "uber" builds cover these flaws quite well with epic gear and yugo pots, I'm not sure this concept scales down that well. The choice of WIS over STR is fine....if you can make up for it in gearing...which a 1st, or even 2nd lifer's like us, just don't have access too....yet.

    Do you feel that your build can start running epics, assuming GS is aquired 1st, to farm for such things as Greater abashi, Epic Thornlord, Etc. ?

    I think I have you covered pretty well in skills...her current life (1rogue/11ranger/8bard) is all about utility,tricks, and songs for survivability, CC and DPS buffing, and we were trying to get away from the mad click and buffing playstyle, and move more to a zerg approach for leveling. Not a deal-breaker for us by any means...just saying..

    With +6/+6 rage (with a halfway decent duration) and STR level-ups, I'm not so sure the 10K's WIS-based DPS is better...considering the lack of to-hit/damage on the melee side. HP's are also a concern on this flavor of 10K. The extra d12 and toughness line from barb levels really help out here in ours.

    I like the concept for sure, but I think it really does require great gear pre-made and banked to be successful end-game elite/epic (from my limited forum-only understanding). For her 4th life, the 12 monk split with epic gear certainly looks sweet, but that's a long way off.

    I'm not disputing the build at all, in fact just the oposite...I'm looking at you to convince me

    Finally, It's really all pie in the sky if either of our builds will survive the enhancement pass coming this summer.

    Thanks for the time...
    ShadowFlash
    I've updated the build following our discussion. I originally designed the build as a low gear/first life option while working towards a final 12 monk build. The combination of low stat dependencies (free IPS being the main point), artificer buffs (elemental weapons) and flexible feats makes the build a very good contender for what you're looking for.

    You have to remember that with barbarian rage you'll be relying on pots to heal and you'll be getting hit pretty hard when you do get hit due to no AC. Wisdom based is vastly superior for any decently geared leveling build due to the ease with which you can hit untouchable AC and the massive boost to damage that stunning fist gives (+50% is more than anything barbarian gives). The only issue is melee AB; if you have access to guild augment slotted items, consumables (heroism pots, bulls pots), ship buffs and clickies (planar gird) then you'll be fine.

    At cap running epics an archers strength is never DPS, it's CC and utility, it's easy enough to grind out an Epic Bow of Earth from the challenge pack which is an easily accessible option until you get access to better options like Alchemical Earth bow, LitII or eThornlord. From this perspective the additional arrow procs that 10k stars grants is vastly superior to any additional damage that barbarian gives as additional procs translates directly into more chances for CC to proc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
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