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  1. #461
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    Default why not shadar-kai?

    Hi guys

    Was wandering, why not shadar-kai instead of drow?
    They look built for rogue, specially assassin rogue. Let's see the good...
    bonus to INT
    spike chain, AoE damage, does not break stealth!!!
    guile for more sneak attack dices
    shadow jaunt for quick "get out of trouble" button
    and last: gloom stalker! let you sneak attack even when you have aggro!!! (don't know the proc rate)
    Anyway... seems pretty decent to me, what am i missing?
    Would love feed back before Tring (was going human assassin, but now...)
    Thanks

  2. #462
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choopak View Post
    Hi guys

    Was wandering, why not shadar-kai instead of drow?
    They look built for rogue, specially assassin rogue. Let's see the good...
    bonus to INT
    spike chain, AoE damage, does not break stealth!!!
    guile for more sneak attack dices
    shadow jaunt for quick "get out of trouble" button
    and last: gloom stalker! let you sneak attack even when you have aggro!!! (don't know the proc rate)
    Anyway... seems pretty decent to me, what am i missing?
    Would love feed back before Tring (was going human assassin, but now...)
    Thanks
    I'm currently finishing my 2nd Shadar-kai rogue life for the 2x dodge past life feats as I needed 2 more rogue life's. Unless you do not have EMG and are planning on fitting in Ring of the Runaway for +2 assassinate dc Drow is better choice for higher int (3 total). Also next update there will be a +4 assassination dc item.

    Shadar only get +1 Int from enhancements and no bonus int from character build (same as human, but missus 1 extra feat). I built my shadar more like I would have when going human except without toughness as the bonus feat.

    Ive never tried the spike chain as the full enhancement line is too expensive to be able to fit in haste from acrobat and 2 int from mechanic.

    Shadow jaunt seems useful, but also can only fit in 2/3 haste with it. I may try this latter.

    Best thing with gloom stalker is that it negates the envenomed blades bug breaking assassination, but this is fixed in next patch. Also the effect only works while sneaking and with an improved deception item and weapons its not really needed.

  3. #463
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choopak View Post
    Hi guys

    Was wandering, why not shadar-kai instead of drow?
    They look built for rogue, specially assassin rogue. Let's see the good...
    bonus to INT
    spike chain, AoE damage, does not break stealth!!!
    guile for more sneak attack dices
    shadow jaunt for quick "get out of trouble" button
    and last: gloom stalker! let you sneak attack even when you have aggro!!! (don't know the proc rate)
    Anyway... seems pretty decent to me, what am i missing?
    Would love feed back before Tring (was going human assassin, but now...)
    Thanks
    In addition to what HuneyMunster said:

    I tried one of these briefly (I used my +20 heart of wood on an old lev 20 rogue alt), I didnt really put much time into it, but while a lot of shadar-kai stuff seems great on paper, I was utterly disappointed in practice. The spike chain was laughable as far as damage output goes at lev 20 (basically because you dont get sneak damage while using it). Maybe it is good at lower levels. Everything else it offers is basically easily replaced with better gear or is so minimal at endgame it is trivial. So he is now once again a dedicated bank toon, LOL
    Last edited by Mellkor; 03-01-2014 at 09:41 AM.
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
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  4. #464
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    In addition to what HuneyMunster said:

    I tried one of these briefly (I used my +20 heart of wood on an old lev 20 rogue alt), I didnt really put much time into it, but while a lot of shadar-kai stuff seems great on paper, I was utterly disappointed in practice. The spike chain was laughable as far as damage output goes at lev 20 (basically because you dont get sneak damage while using it). Maybe it is good at lower levels. Everything else it offers is basically easily replaced with better gear or is so minimal at endgame it is trivial. So he is now once again a dedicated bank toon, LOL
    Adding to this, if you want an iconic assassin rogue and want to skip levels 1 to 14 then a Sun Elf Morninglord would be better. This is especially true if you still have the free lesser heart of wood to remove the cleric level or willing to pay to remove it. You still have the +2 int you would get from Drow as well as the +2 int from enhancements. You would also gain 4% to hit instead of the spell resistance (making Sun Elf best choice offensively if you cant no fail on a 2). But, unless the wiki page is incorrect (not checked on live) then you would spend 1 extra action point to get the +2 int (1st core for Drow is listed as 0 action points which I think is wrong so no extra expense in action points).

    Edit:

    Also if you use repeater xbow a lot when melee combat is too dangerous (cleave type attacks from mobs such as Draegloth are especially bad for rogue melee) and the giants like the black dragon in Gianthold Tor that knocks you half way across the room when in shadow form the "Ranged Sneak Attack range is increased by 2 meters for each Elven Core Ability you possess from this tree" is very nice and makes sun elf the best choice to use.
    Last edited by HuneyMunster; 03-08-2014 at 10:09 PM.

  5. #465
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    You aren't by chance going to upgrade the OP with the new armor that's out by chance? The +4 dc to assassinate etc?

  6. #466
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    You aren't by chance going to upgrade the OP with the new armor that's out by chance? The +4 dc to assassinate etc?
    I do not know.

    I quit DDO over the Akamai b u l l s h i t.

    What are the specs on the armour?
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
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  7. #467
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    Trinket: Manual of Stealthy Pilfering
    Good Luck +2
    Dexterity Skills - Exceptional Bonus +4
    Intelligence Skills - Exceptional Bonus +4
    Open Lock +20
    Disable Device +20
    Zhentarim Attuned

    Upgraded:
    Good Luck +3
    Dex Skills - Excep +6
    Int SKills - Excep +6
    Open Lock +20
    Disable Device +20
    Use Magical Device +5 (Competence bonus)
    Green Slot

    Dumathoin's Bracers - Bracers
    Natural Armor +10
    Elemental Resistance +45
    Sheltering +30
    Blue Augment Slot
    Dexterity +11

    Dark Diversion - necklace
    Occultation: decrease all threat by 20%
    Assassination +4
    Move Silently +20
    Hide +20
    Colorless Augment Slot
    some augment slot(s)

    Just some of the updated gear. I'll post more when I see it in game or on forums.

  8. #468
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Just some of the updated gear. I'll post more when I see it in game or on forums.
    You can find all the new gear on wiki.

    The Manual is nothing but swap effects. Only good luck 3 and UMD 5 are not easily found elsewhere, but neither one is needed full time either. The Skirmisher's Bracers are better for the doublestrike they provide. The necklace is a no brainer for an assassin.

    There's also the Dragon Masque, which I think is better than the black dragon helm. The shadowscale armor, I'm still undecided about. The only thing of any real value on it is the 2d6 sneak attack. Giving up the black scale armor means losing relentless fury (5% melee damage) and armor pierce 20. Using a thunder forged dagger with armor pierce 35 would make up for the loss on the armor, so I think it's probably worth it.

    I posted more of my thoughts in my assassin thread which can be found in my sig if you're interested.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  9. #469
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    How's the Max Int assassinates working in the new raids?




  10. #470
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    About as well as any quest where most of the mobs are undead :/
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
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  11. #471
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    Rogues in general suck in the new stuff. I hate it.

  12. #472
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I messed around in the new stuff yesterday.

    Clearly something is different with AI now. I went from almost always assassinating 2 mobs at a time to almost always assassinating one at a time

    It appeares to be because every mob in the area will now aggro as soon as the first one is assassinated, no matter what your stealth score is.

    Anyone else notice this?

    Also, 72 DC is not the near no fail number for any assassinateable mob for the new content, its around 75! With a 72 DC I estimate around a 10 to 15% failure rate on EE.
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

  13. #473
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I also updated the max possible Assassinate DC in the OP for reference.

    Am I missing anything?


    Max Theoretical Assassinate DC for a rogue:

    Max assassinate DC = 84 for a Helf, 83 for a drow elf. (this DC is far from practical since it requires a lot of very short duration and very hard to get int buffs. It is here just for reference.)



    10 base
    20 rogue levels
    6 stealthy (shadowdancer tier 1)
    4 Dark Diversion necklace
    5 measure the foe
    39 INT bonus from 88 INT (18 base, 6 tome, 7 levels, 1 human adaptability, 1 arti dil, 3 action surge, 2 capstone, 2 assassin, 2 mechanic, 11 gloves of the master illusionist, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 yugo, 2 ship, 6 epic destiny, 4 twisted, 3 great int, 2 completionist, 1 litany, 2 store pot, 3 house D pot, 4 abashai cookies, 2 bard song)
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post


    Max Theoretical Assassinate DC for a rogue:

    Max assassinate DC = 84 for a Helf, 83 for a drow elf. (this DC is far from practical since it requires a lot of very short duration and very hard to get int buffs. It is here just for reference.)



    10 base
    20 rogue levels
    6 stealthy (shadowdancer tier 1)
    4 Dark Diversion necklace
    5 measure the foe
    39 INT bonus from 88 INT (18 base, 6 tome, 7 levels, 1 human adaptability, 1 arti dil, 3 action surge, 2 capstone, 2 assassin, 2 mechanic, 11 gloves of the master illusionist, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 yugo, 2 ship, 6 epic destiny, 4 twisted, 3 great int, 2 completionist, 1 litany, 2 store pot, 3 house D pot, 4 abashai cookies, 2 bard song)

    I don't think you can twist in Intelligence if you already have that tier of intelligence from your current destiny.

  15. #475
    Community Member TitoFireknife's Avatar
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    is there a u23 version coming? need new Gear input


    Proud Member of Eternal Infinity
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  16. #476
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I've not seen Mellkor post in a couple of months, unfortunately. Maybe try your luck in Hassan's Assassin thread.

  17. #477
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I've not seen Mellkor post in a couple of months, unfortunately. Maybe try your luck in Hassan's Assassin thread.
    I could have sworn I saw in chat on Thelanis recently someone with a name like Mellkor offering prizes for folk who could find him in the market place (or something like that). If I had know that he was scarce on the forums I would have pinged him in game to see if that was indeed him and let him know how much I have enjoyed reading his threads...

  18. #478
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    I could have sworn I saw in chat on Thelanis recently someone with a name like Mellkor offering prizes for folk who could find him in the market place (or something like that). If I had know that he was scarce on the forums I would have pinged him in game to see if that was indeed him and let him know how much I have enjoyed reading his threads...

    Heh that was not me. I have just been busy with work this summer. I have not had much time for DDO. I am on Argo, I don't think I have any characters on Thelanis.

    And thanks I'll try and get a U23 version updated sometime this Fall.
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

  19. #479
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Wow, Harper tree int to hit and damage with all weapons is awesome a REALLY big boost to DPS on this build. You can also get another +2 int from this tree over Mechanic. You give up wand and scroll mastery and repeaters. I can live without repeaters, but the loss of wand and scroll mastery is a tough one. Heal scrolls hit for only 207 (with a greensteel HAMP stick) or so....

    I am considering Human to get some inherent healing amp and an extra feat to mitigate this. Int to Damage is just too good. A lot of great gear out there too. I will update the OP in a few days after I put some thought into all of it and see what new gear is out there.

    Completed the new Abbot raid and got the rune arm :/
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

  20. #480
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    *Double Post*
    Last edited by Mellkor; 10-01-2014 at 04:30 PM.
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

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