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  1. #441
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I updated the OP with lev 28 numbers. (I am now back to lev 27 and I extrapolated my current numbers to lev 28, so there may be an error here and there. I will correct them when I cap and finish my lev 28 gear set).

    I also tweeked the endgame gear set a little bit to include one greensteel item.
    What do you think of the Rogue PL? I don't remember if you stated anything about it or not. Which feat would you give up for it if you were to take it?

  2. #442
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    What do you think of the Rogue PL? I don't remember if you stated anything about it or not. Which feat would you give up for it if you were to take it?
    The rogue past life feat is a very nice chunk of extra damage for 3 solid minutes. I have it on the build in my sig but I'm considering dropping it for weapon finesse. I'm also human so it's easier to take due to the extra feat. The only value I see in weapon finesse is being able to use light maces for undead. One of the most run raids in the game at the moment has a skeleton as a boss. I've got a lot of coms to farm out so I'll probably go with weapon finesse until I don't need to run FoT anymore, then switch it out for the past life.

    Toughness, past life rogue, weapon finesse, and imp crit slash (for EMG) are all optional feats. I'd say choose whichever of those best fits your priorities. Toughness for survivability. Past life rogue for burst dps. Weapon finesse for better undead dps. Imp crit slash for better trash dps without doing a weapon swap every 12 seconds to assassinate.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  3. #443
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    very nice write up Melkor. what did you finally decide for starting stats?

    the updates to the first page still show Dex as 14, which is not enough to take improved sneak attack. several of your posts went back and forth about increasing Dex a bit, did you decide to go that route?

    thanks

  4. #444
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendo View Post
    very nice write up Melkor. what did you finally decide for starting stats?

    the updates to the first page still show Dex as 14, which is not enough to take improved sneak attack. several of your posts went back and forth about increasing Dex a bit, did you decide to go that route?

    thanks
    The whole starting stat distribution doesn't add up. It shows 35 points being spent while a 3rd life drow only gets 32 points.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    The whole starting stat distribution doesn't add up. It shows 35 points being spent while a 3rd life drow only gets 32 points.
    Hmm I will double check next time I log on.

  6. #446
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    Yeah, dunno where those numbers came from lol. Must be an amalgam of old and new posts that I overlooked. Thanks for pointing it out. I went 8/17/13/20/8/10 this time around. I think you could still you can lower dex in favor of con if you wanted to, but you really wont notice 2 or 3 points one way or the other much at end game, regardless.

  7. #447
    Community Member nokowi's Avatar
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    This is a fun, well thought out build. I am currently using a completionist (no precision feat but +2 to all stats) version with Shadar Kai instead of drow. I have 64 int with an assassinate dc of 70 (after sneaking). This will probably be human in my final build for the extra feat.

    There is a lvl 27 or 28 feat that gives you 5% miss after all other effects (you must have 2 martial ED's maxed out). You might consider this over epic toughness.

    A note to those of you trying to gear up to this build: This build only functions well for EE content if you fully maximize your fort/will saves. (Mid to High 40's helps but you will still fail saves on EE content). I would be more comfortable with ~50 saves if you can find a way to get this into your build (completionist + higher starting con from not being drow help with fort). I have 754 hp without epic toughness feat (but with 3 barb past lives, higher starting con + completionist). This will be 853 hp after epic TR's are done.

    Could you lay out your dodge bonuses to reach 25% dodge? Dodge bonuses no longer stack (U19), using only your best item. You have Baldazar listed as insight bonus to dodge, but it is currently listed as an enhancement bonus. I get into the 20's for dodge (after assassinating some mobs) but will definitely need Shadar Kai past lives (+1% dodge up to 3x) to reach 25% without taking a dodge feat.
    Last edited by nokowi; 12-04-2013 at 09:12 AM.

  8. #448
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    There is a lvl 27 or 28 feat that gives you 5% miss after all other effects (you must have 2 martial ED's maxed out). You might consider this over epic toughness.
    Elusive target is what you're referring to. It's a level 28 ED feat, so it doesn't compete with epic toughness. I take both on the assassin in my sig.

    I decided to go with human also. Human gets not only the extra feat, but also better burst dps with damage boost, saves a twist, and can still reach a 69 DC.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  9. #449
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Dodge:

    10% item (currently have it on my bracers atm).
    6% Improved Uncanny Dodge.
    3% Planar Focus set bonus.
    3% Unearthly Reactions.
    ______________________________________
    22% standing dodge.

    The remaining 3% comes from maintaining 3 shadow charges.

    You could hit standing 25% with other twists or feats, but I think 22% + 3 shadow charges works well, and is easy to maintain, as you will typically have 3 or more shadow charges most of the time anyway.

    Some people rely on Nimbleness to hit 25%. I do not recommend relying on this as these are very temporary (only lasts a few seconds) and relies on you being in combat to get and maintain this bonus. There are a lot of times when you are NOT in combat and still want to have dodge maxed, so again, Nimbleness is of very little value, IMO. It would be nice if this ability stacked above and beyond the 25% cap tho.

    Even using Balizard's 8% bonus instead of a 10% bonus on an item, you can still get to 25%, you just have to maintain 5 charges instead of 3. This is a little harder, as I often dip below 5 shadow charges, but rarely do I go below 3.

    Also, you have to be sure your armour does not limit you to below 25%. In the case of the black dragon leather armour, I have to take 2 levels of lithe and use an armoured agility augment to get to 25% dodge with that armour on.
    Last edited by Mellkor; 12-05-2013 at 09:30 AM.
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
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  10. #450
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    Does anyone use Executioners Strike in Shadow Dancer? It seems like it would be another assassinate, but using Dex instead of Int. Wouldn't this be pretty good to use while assassinate is on timer? Or am I mis-reading the skill or putting too much hope in it's usefulness/effectiveness?

  11. #451
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbIe View Post
    Does anyone use Executioners Strike in Shadow Dancer? It seems like it would be another assassinate, but using Dex instead of Int. Wouldn't this be pretty good to use while assassinate is on timer? Or am I mis-reading the skill or putting too much hope in it's usefulness/effectiveness?
    I do not use this ability on this build. I haven't tried to use this in a while, but my experience was that it did not work too well in EE content. It seems to work OK(ish) in EH and lower content. It might work better on an all-out DEX build tho. /shrug
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
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  12. #452
    Community Member Doutrinador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Posting this build upon request.

    U19: Updated for U19. Biggest change was race. Drow is best race for this build IMO, but human is a close second.

    Updated for U17: Biggest change is gear! Entirely new gear set for lev 25 over lev 20 gear. I added a level 25 gear section to this post, I left the level 20 gear list as it was. Some chages to twists also.

    U16's biggest change is more emphasis on defense. U16 Epic Elite quests are brutal if you neglect defense. I now have 25% dodge + 25% incoporeal + 20/50% concealment running on this guy all the time. You dont get hit much with all of these being separate checks for each incoming blow.

    I have tried str based and dex based rogues pures and spalshed, but by far I like this one the best.

    This guy requires a lot of hard to grind gear, but it is worth it!


    My concept for this build started out a while back (when lev 16 was cap) as an INT based assassin. When I started this build most folks laughed and said no way it would work. LOL. My concept was to max out assassinate DC, with 500+ HP's, be able to hit most mobs on a 2, all while still being able to do all the trap stuff expected of a rogue, without fail. This build does between 80-90% of the dps that a geared STR based build does. That said, I gotta wonder why folks go STR based!!!!

    Game play on this guy involves doing most of my DPS via sneak and assassinate. I concentrate on assassinating full health bar mobs, and then joining the main fight on an already engaged mob until my cool down for assassinate is reset, I then go into sneak and hunt down the next mob with a full health bar, rinse, repeat. I usually give priority to mobs in the periphery such as archers and casters for my assassinates. I also try to get lined up so I can hit two or three mobs at once. You can often assassinate 2 at once and rarely 3 if you get lucky with double strike, but the mobs have to be close together. You can also often assassinate 2 at once by striking one and taking a fast side step to reach a nearby mob. For solo play I use a lot of summon monster scrolls to get mobs attention, then stick 'em. I tend to use Bluff and Diplo a lot. All this while being able to do any trap and open any lock on any difficulty, without fail. I have a lot of fun with this guy!

    Damage comes primarily from Assassinate and Sneak Attack Damage which on this guy is 23d6 + 12 + weapon damage + items that add to sneak damage, usually from an EMG + one of the CitW weapons which add 2d4 +21 base damage along with disintegrate procs, greater shocking blow from epic charged gauntlets, elemental damage from arti scrolls, critical hits, force burst alchemical rituals, and damage from the assassin enhancements make for nice DPS. I almost always have one EMG equipped, what goes in the other hand depends on the situation. Usually it is one of the CitW (for the subterfuge set bonus) weapons. The CitW weapons are king of DPS for this build as of U19, especially the rapier, dagger, and the short sword. EMG's are (still) very nearly a universal weapon that works well on everything in the hands of an assassin. I still often dual-wield EMG's when crowd control is important. As far as damage goes, it ALMOST does not matter what weapon you use, since sneak damage is so dominate. You can almost do as much damage with a spoon, LOL.

    Damage wise I bring something to the table in all situations, BUT why worry about maximizing DPS by going str build or adding a splash when you can 1 shot most enemies out there and hardly fail. If the enemy is assassinatable it will go down seems to me more than 90% of the time! Even hard to assassinate enemies such as orothons and devils go down most of the time.


    Anyway, Benchmarks for this build: at Lev 25. (Lev 28 stats are somewhat better than listed) (assumptions: ship buffs, GH, haste, as equipped or using equipment described below, one TR, +4 tomes to all, +5 int tome).

    I do not include other (some easy to get) buffs in these numbers as I consider most of them either too hard to get (abashai cookies, house D pots, bard buffs, etc), too much of a pain in the ass to sustain (rage pots, scrolls of whatever buff, and other short duration buff pots and clickys), or too expensive (store pots, yugo pots, etc). Do keep in mind tho, that the below posted numbers can be even better. The only one of these I occasionally use these days are the store pots, they last 10 mins and allow some flexibility in some aspects of this build, such as making up for lack of a +4 tome, or if you prefer a different destiny set up than what is described below. (I usually just get the int one, as the supreme pots are too expensive, IMO)


    Race Drow Elf. (36 pt build)

    Stats: start / end game (+4 tome to all included, +5 tomes to DEX, INT, and CON)

    STR 8 / 24
    DEX 17 / 36
    CON 13 / 34
    INT 20 / 64 (20 base, +7 level ups, +11 item, +1 exceptional, +3 insight, +5 tome, +2 capstone, +2 ship, +2 Drow racial enhancement, +2 assassin enhancement tree, +2 mechanic enhancement tree, +5 epic destinies (including twists), +2 epic feats)
    WIS 10 / 26
    CHA 10 / 28


    Standing Assassinate DC:

    27 INT bonus (64 INT)
    20 rogue levels
    10 base
    6 stealthy from shadowdancer destiny
    5 measure the foe enhancement from assassin tree
    2 EMG
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    70 Self buffed Assassinate DC

    1 bard Song
    1 yugo pot
    1 store pot
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    73 DC from common and/or not too much a pain to maintain buffs.

    Higher than 73 and you really begin to move into PIA-to-maintain-that-DC territory. Requiring (IMO) major sacrifices in destines and feat selection as well as maintaining short duration buffs that are difficult to obtain, such as abashai cookies or house D pots, etc.

    70 is what I consider the best practical DC as all you need to rely on is yourself (and your ship), not make major sacrifices to attain, and not have to worry about refreshing pots or other short duration buffs. I sometimes use store and yugo pots for a 72 DC, but the cost and/or detriments are not worth it or needed most of the time.

    +80 DC is possible, but, again, is not practical as it requires hard to acquire or very short duration buffs such as abashi cookies or house D pots, etc. 70 is about the best practical DC one can maintain, IMO as of U19. Going all out to 80 DC really gimps you in other areas that matter, especially in destinies and enhancements.

    736 HP (often ends up to be over 800 with party buffs)

    Armour Class: 70

    Saves:

    Fort: 46
    Reflex 75 (mid 80's vs traps)
    Will 48

    Reflex save is very high without really trying so you could drop insightful reflexes and settle for a low 60's reflex save and get some other feat of your choice. But having that high a reflex save sure is nice in end game EE content.


    Skills:

    This guy basically maxes out all skills useful to a rogue. The only skills points are not put into are heal, repair, intimidate, spellcraft, and perform. 23 ranks go into ALL of the other skills (need a +1, +2, +3, and a +4 int tomes eaten on a first life, then TR, to do this) except for tumble (only need 15 ranks to max it out at 36) and jump (only need a few points to max it at 40 with the shavarath clicky).


    Trap Skills: (at lev 28 using +20 items, +5 exceptional items and/or gear described below and self buffed only. Other buffs such as bard/yugo/store pots, action boosts, etc, will make these somewhat better.)

    Spot 83
    Search 96
    Diasble 112 + 1d20
    Open Lock 95 + 1d20

    I have not failed any trap or lock with these numbers to date in epic elite quests and raids.

    Other Skills (as equipped at lev 28 below)

    UMD 51 (good enough to cast level IX scrolls at 100% success rate)
    Hide 65
    Move Silently 65
    Jump 40+
    balance 55
    swim 71 (LOL) try it, its a hoot. (with a +20 item)
    Diplo 65
    Haggle 60
    Bluff 70
    Listen 56 (could hit 76 with a +20 item equipped, but I never do this on this guy)

    Feats: (in order of acquisition)

    Two weapon fighting
    Weapon Finesse
    Improved two weapon fighting
    Precision
    Improved crit: pierce
    Insightful Reflexes
    Greater two weapon fighting

    Improved Sneak Attack (lev 21)
    Epic Intelligence x2 (lev 24 and 27)
    Toughness (lev 26)
    Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (lev 28)

    Rogue special feats:

    Improved Evasion
    Skill Mastery
    Slippery mind (this really helps to shore up this builds greatest weakness, the low will save)
    Opportunist

    Enhancements:

    Drow Racial tree: +2 INT (only requires first 3 core abilities to do this!!!!!)

    Assassin Tree: All 6 core abilities, +1 INT x 2, Assassinate, measure the foe III, Crit accuracy III, crit damage III, killer II, knife specialization, sneak attack training x 4, stealthy III, Damage Boost III.

    Mechanic Tree: first 4 core abilities, +1 INT x 2, Awareness III, mechanics II, wand and scroll mastery III, UMD III.

    Thief-Acrobat Tree: first core ability, fast sneaking III, haste boost III.


    Destiny:

    This part of the build is often changing for me. Many good things here. You could actually go all int and hit a 75 or so standing assassinate if you like, however, I recommend AT THE VERY LEAST maintaining 70 standing DC + 25% dodge somehow. There are many ways to do this by tweaking this destiny to your liking. It becomes even easier if you get lucky with a +5 int tome. I use shadow manipulation a lot, it is really excellent.

    Shadow Dancer.

    Stealthy III
    Intelligence x4
    Lithe II
    Shrouding Strike I
    Cloak of Shadows I
    Shadow Manipulation I
    Improved Ivisibility I
    Untouchable I
    Grim Precision II
    Shadow Form I (grants 25% incorporeal!!!!!!!!!!!!)

    Twists:
    Brace for Impact
    Int +1
    Impregnable Mind



    Equipment:

    Weapons: Epic Midnight Greetings + Balizarde, Protector of Kings most of the time. The EMG with 1d10 acid slotted in. Both with alchemical force burst ritual. I also often UMD arti elemental damage scrolls on them. I usually swap the EMG to Agony for bosses or swap in DR beaters as needed for bosses. In situations where getting aggro cant be avoided, I also swap out the EMG with Celestina, Brightest Star of Day, or one of the other CitW weapons, or some other weapon depending if the mob is vulnerable to stat damage, etc). I also use a greensteel healing amp stick when self healing (a heal scroll heals me half my total HPs or so).

    For ranged weapons you get repeater crossbows profs from first 4 core abilities from mechanic as well as int bonus to damage!!. I went for this as early as possible because a good repeater with int bonus is really powerful at early levels. Greensteel repeaters at lev 12 on up is also very, very good. This is a nice bonus when ranged is required.


    ENDGAME gear: (Lev 28 as of U19) Slight variations on this are possible in the random gear and on the named items that have a random ability so look at all the random gear as a set, try to get what is listed as a set rather than looking specifically as I have it listed.


    Head-Black Dragon Helm (+3 insight CON, green slot(+16 PRR), yellow slot(+8 CON), set bonus: (+3% double strike).

    Neck- Greensteel +45 HP's, Smokescreen, displacement x2. (make many for displacement all the time ) --> swap in +6 wis skills greensteel item when bump to spot is needed. Or other situational GS items, as needed.

    Trinket- Planar Focus of Subterfuge (+3 insight DEX, +1 alchemical saves, set bonus: (3% dodge, +5 sneak attack to hit, +8 sneak attack damage, true seeing).

    Cloak- Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (+5 exceptional seeker, 8% dodge, attack +4, diversion 20%).

    Belt- EE Skullduggery (+6 INT skills, +6 DEX skills, random ability(seeker 10), green slot(natural armour +8).

    Ring 1- Ring of Deceit (+20 to bluff, diplo, haggle, +8 CHA, improved deception, yellow slot(vitality +20), colorless slot(+2 insight WIS).

    Ring 2- Random Loot (Deadly 10, Resist 10, colorless slot(Globe of True Imperial Blood).

    Hands- Gloves of the Master Illusionist (INT +11, some useless stuff, yellow(deathblock).

    Feet- EE Goatskin Boots (speed XV perma haste!, green slot(protection +8), colorless slot(+8 STR), random ability (fortification 115%).

    Bracers- Skirmishers Bracers (+9 DEX, doublestrike +8%), --> swap to EE Bracers of Twisting Shade and tinkers goggles when using disable device if needed or when +20 to search is needed).

    Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, yellow slot(+8 WIS), green slot(falselife 40).

    Armour- Black dragon light armour (need shadowdancer destiny to bump this to 25 max dex bonus) (Armour piercing 20%, Haste Guard, Set Bonus, Sup Acid Resist, Relentless Fury, blue slot(+2 armored agility).

    Quiver- one that adds + acid damage to ranged attacks.

    Balizarde provides: Good Luck +2, +4 insight to all saves and AC, and +8% insight Dodge.


    Weapon main set is still Balizarde with 1d10 acid damage in the red slot + EMG with 1d10 acid damage in the red slot. For bosses OR for when my assassinate DC is not challanged by mobs I am fighting, I use Balizarde + Agony. When crowd control is important, I use 2 EMG's. For DR bypassers, 2 Celestia's works on almost everything needing bypassers. I also carry a good set of portal beaters.



    This guy is a lot of fun for me because blindly running ahead is NOT the thing to do with this guy. This guy requires smart play and accomplishing things by thinking outside the box, which for me is the biggest appeal for this character, and a nice refreshing change from the norm. There is almost nothing more satisfying than listening to the big bad barb ***** because you decimated his precious kill count. LOL. And you did most of it with one swing / mob



    Max Theoretical Assassinate DC for a rogue:

    Max assassinate DC = 81 for a Helf, 80 for a drow elf. (this DC is far from practical since it requires a lot of very short duration and very hard to get int buffs. It is here just for reference.)



    10 base
    20 rogue levels
    6 stealthy (shadowdancer tier 1)
    2 EMG
    5 measure the foe
    38 INT bonus from 87 INT (18 base, 6 tome, 7 levels, 1 human adaptability, 1 arti dil, 3 action surge, 2 capstone, 2 assassin, 2 mechanic, 11 gloves of the master illusionist, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 yugo, 2 ship, 6 epic destiny, 3 twisted, 3 great int, 2 completionist, 1 litany, 2 store pot, 3 house D pot, 4 abashai cookies, 2 bard song)
    1- balizard aplies dex to hit with finesse, but and for damage?

    2- can i use only kuri and daggers and not take finesse? i can use staffs for undead and take some lvls in acrobat.

    3- Its possible to do this build with 34 points?

    4- Why not go H elf and take arti dill or barb? With fighter dill and more str i could use schimitars and drop finesse.

    Thx

  13. #453
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    1- balizard aplies dex to hit with finesse, but and for damage?

    2- can i use only kuri and daggers and not take finesse? i can use staffs for undead and take some lvls in acrobat.

    3- Its possible to do this build with 34 points?

    4- Why not go H elf and take arti dill or barb? With fighter dill and more str i could use schimitars and drop finesse.

    Thx
    1. No idea what you're asking here.
    2. Yes, but you're far more effective using a pair of light bludgeoning weapons with GTWF than you are using a quarterstaff with essentially zero investment in making it better.
    3. Yes.
    4. Because Drow can have 3 more Int than a Half-elf can achieve. The benefit of going Dex-based is that it removes a stat you need to worry about (Str), whereas you can't really dump Dex on this build, even with Insightful Reflexes, because you still need to hit a 17 for Improved and Greater TWF, and a 21 for Improved Sneak Attack. Plus, you use several Dex-based skills, and daggers and kukris with Knife Specialization are quite a bit better than scimitars with their 15-20/x3 crit profile.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  14. #454
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    1- balizard aplies dex to hit with finesse, but and for damage?
    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    1. No idea what you're asking here.
    I believe the question is if you can apply dex to damage with Balizarde from weapon finesse. If that is the question, then the answer is yes. Dagger in the back, the second core assassin enhancement, allows you to use dex for damage with any finesse weapon if you have weapon finesse.

    And I would agree with sephiroth's responses to your other questions.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

  15. #455
    Community Member Doutrinador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    I believe the question is if you can apply dex to damage with Balizarde from weapon finesse. If that is the question, then the answer is yes. Dagger in the back, the second core assassin enhancement, allows you to use dex for damage with any finesse weapon if you have weapon finesse.

    And I would agree with sephiroth's responses to your other questions.
    Thanks, that's what i would like to know.

    The Drow Enhancements have more good things? Nothing is Hidden is good, we can drop spot using this? Shuriken is good, or better go with repeaters? Darkfire works with low Charisma? And Faerie Fire? My next build will be this rogue, i just dont know what will do with undead and other mobs NA imunes.

  16. #456
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    Thanks, that's what i would like to know.

    The Drow Enhancements have more good things? Nothing is Hidden is good, we can drop spot using this? Shuriken is good, or better go with repeaters? Darkfire works with low Charisma? And Faerie Fire? My next build will be this rogue, i just dont know what will do with undead and other mobs NA imunes.
    There is so much to spend your AP on in all three of the rogue trees that you won't have much to spend on the racial tree. Take a look at the enhancements for the assassin in my sig and you'll see what I mean. So plan out your enhancements first to get an idea of what to expect. Also, I don't recall exactly how nothing is hidden works. If I remember correctly, someone tested it and found that it was using only spot or search, I don't remember which one. So do some research and figure out exactly how it works before you decide to dump a skill.

    You can go with repeaters. Knife specialization works with throwing daggers. Shuriken is also an option if drow. None of those will give you a strong ranged option so it doesn't really matter which one you go with.

    Sephiroth already suggested how to deal with undead. Go with dual triple positive greensteel light maces. That's what I use on my assassin and I'm quite pleased with it. I tried a triple positive quarterstaff and it is noticeably behind dual wielding.

    For constructs, get wracking strike from the mechanic tree. Drop their fort and take away their sneak attack immunity and they are not a problem at all.

    For elementals, using banishing or other high raw dps weapons are about your only option. You don't really have any other way of dealing with them.

    Oozes don't matter because they are not a significant enough threat in any part of the game. That covers all the sneak attack immune mobs.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Community Member Doutrinador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    There is so much to spend your AP on in all three of the rogue trees that you won't have much to spend on the racial tree. Take a look at the enhancements for the assassin in my sig and you'll see what I mean. So plan out your enhancements first to get an idea of what to expect. Also, I don't recall exactly how nothing is hidden works. If I remember correctly, someone tested it and found that it was using only spot or search, I don't remember which one. So do some research and figure out exactly how it works before you decide to dump a skill.

    You can go with repeaters. Knife specialization works with throwing daggers. Shuriken is also an option if drow. None of those will give you a strong ranged option so it doesn't really matter which one you go with.

    Sephiroth already suggested how to deal with undead. Go with dual triple positive greensteel light maces. That's what I use on my assassin and I'm quite pleased with it. I tried a triple positive quarterstaff and it is noticeably behind dual wielding.

    For constructs, get wracking strike from the mechanic tree. Drop their fort and take away their sneak attack immunity and they are not a problem at all.

    For elementals, using banishing or other high raw dps weapons are about your only option. You don't really have any other way of dealing with them.

    Oozes don't matter because they are not a significant enough threat in any part of the game. That covers all the sneak attack immune mobs.
    Thanks again

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    Community Member Doutrinador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    There is so much to spend your AP on in all three of the rogue trees that you won't have much to spend on the racial tree. Take a look at the enhancements for the assassin in my sig and you'll see what I mean. So plan out your enhancements first to get an idea of what to expect. Also, I don't recall exactly how nothing is hidden works. If I remember correctly, someone tested it and found that it was using only spot or search, I don't remember which one. So do some research and figure out exactly how it works before you decide to dump a skill.

    You can go with repeaters. Knife specialization works with throwing daggers. Shuriken is also an option if drow. None of those will give you a strong ranged option so it doesn't really matter which one you go with.

    Sephiroth already suggested how to deal with undead. Go with dual triple positive greensteel light maces. That's what I use on my assassin and I'm quite pleased with it. I tried a triple positive quarterstaff and it is noticeably behind dual wielding.

    For constructs, get wracking strike from the mechanic tree. Drop their fort and take away their sneak attack immunity and they are not a problem at all.

    For elementals, using banishing or other high raw dps weapons are about your only option. You don't really have any other way of dealing with them.

    Oozes don't matter because they are not a significant enough threat in any part of the game. That covers all the sneak attack immune mobs.

    And a bought spiders, scorpions, drow scorpions, bosses, they are not imune to SA?
    I dont have any green steel weapons, they seems difficult to craft.

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    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doutrinador View Post
    And a bought spiders, scorpions, drow scorpions, bosses, they are not imune to SA?
    I dont have any green steel weapons, they seems difficult to craft.
    No they are not immune to sneak attacks. Spiders have what is called tremor sense, which means you cannot sneak past them. But if someone else has their agro you will get sneak attack damage. Bosses have fortification, not sneak attack immunity. It used to be the case that bosses had 80% fort at most. I haven't seen any new info on this so I don't know if that is still the case or not. See the assassin in my sig for a breakdown of fort bypass.

    Greensteel isn't too bad. It does take some time, but Shroud is still run often, at least on Sarlona. If you have multiple characters running it every three days it won't take you very long to get your ingredients. If you only have one character running it, it will take a while. You also have the option of purchasing your ingredients. They are a lot cheaper now thanks to recent events.
    Unarmed monk guide with builds|The Arcane Warrior: wiz/fighter hybrids|White Feather Sniper: CC/dps focused deepwood stalker|The Divine Cuisinart: divine crusader tempest|The Count of Monte Cristo: swashbuckler|Hassan's Assassin: dex assassin|Dubbell O'Seven: WF artificer|Santa's Little Slayer: dragonmarked elf centered kensai

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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    No they are not immune to sneak attacks. Spiders have what is called tremor sense, which means you cannot sneak past them. But if someone else has their agro you will get sneak attack damage. Bosses have fortification, not sneak attack immunity. It used to be the case that bosses had 80% fort at most. I haven't seen any new info on this so I don't know if that is still the case or not. See the assassin in my sig for a breakdown of fort bypass.

    Greensteel isn't too bad. It does take some time, but Shroud is still run often, at least on Sarlona. If you have multiple characters running it every three days it won't take you very long to get your ingredients. If you only have one character running it, it will take a while. You also have the option of purchasing your ingredients. They are a lot cheaper now thanks to recent events.

    I made this build, its on lvl 4 and doing great. I just raised more cons (14), and Lower intel to 18.
    Note: is a 34 points build.
    Last edited by Doutrinador; 02-05-2014 at 07:24 AM.

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