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  1. #401
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Do you mind providing a breakdown of your reflex save and spot skill? I'm curious how you get them that high and how I might be able to increase mine.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  2. #402
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Do you mind providing a breakdown of your reflex save and spot skill? I'm curious how you get them that high and how I might be able to increase mine.
    Sure, but I can only relay what is shown on the character sheet and skill sheet. I am not sure I can break it down beyond that. I think mostly from the twists I am using atm, some of them add a lot!

    Also reflex save will be lowee now that I am not using insightful reflexes. That feat was also a big reason for the high reflex save. I do not hve it right now to see if I can live without it. I definitely notice a difference not having it. Before I would say I almost NEVER failed a reflex save. Now I occasionally fail, but so far the consequences are minimal, especialy with improved evasion, But that may change with lev 21-28 content, so we will see. With the U19 changes I dump stat STR and went DEX as a secondary stat, so I dropped the dodge feat and insightful reflexes feat. With the boost dodge items got and pumped up dex I thought they may not be as important as before U19. So far that sentiment still holds true up to lev 20. That may well change at cap, tho.

    I am sorry that I can not update the OP faster. My game time is not as much as it has been in the past for many reasons, so updating this build will most likely take me a few more months. Sorry
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-12-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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  3. #403
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Sure, but I can only relay what is shown on the character sheet and skill sheet. I am not sure I can break it down beyond that. I think mostly from the twists I am using atm, some of them add a lot!

    Also reflex save will be lowee now that I am not using insightful reflexes. That feat was also a big reason for the high reflex save. I do not hve it right now to see if I can live without it. I definitely notice a difference not having it. Before I would say I almost NEVER failed a reflex save. Now I occasionally fail, but so far the consequences are minimal, especialy with improved evasion, But that may change with lev 21-28 content, so we will see. With the U19 changes I dump stat STR and went DEX as a secondary stat, so I dropped the dodge feat and insightful reflexes feat. With the boost dodge items got and pumped up dex I thought they may not be as important as before U19. So far that sentiment still holds true up to lev 20. That may well change at cap, tho.

    I am sorry that I can not update the OP faster. My game time is not as much as it has been in the past for many reasons, so updating this build will most likely take me a few more months. Sorry
    No problem. I thought that part of the OP had been updated already. Then whenever you get around to it I'd appreciate seeing a breakdown.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  4. #404
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    No problem. I thought that part of the OP had been updated already. Then whenever you get around to it I'd appreciate seeing a breakdown.
    Yeah I have updated some of it, mainly the race, starting stats, and assassinate DC. The rest of the numbers are still mostly level 25 helf stats from before. I expect those numbers to be AT LEAST the same if not a few points better at 28. I just hit 25 again and am working on the best gear set up at lev 25. So far the set up in the OP is still pretty good. The only thing I have added is a deadly cloak and swapped some augment slots around. I should be able to finalize the lev 25 gear set sometime this week, and then move on to capping and figuring out the best gear set at cap.


    So far for cap, I plan on keeping the 2 rings, armour, helm, bracers, and trinket (as listed in the lev 25 gearset in the OP). Changes will at least include +10 int, +10 resist cloak that I already have, +10 seeker +10 dodge gloves that I already have, swapping the goggles for the +3 insightful wis version, a different belt since I am dumping STR this time around, EE goatskin boots (already have), and deadly something or other somewhere. This gives me a few slots/augments to mess around with. Hopefully I will have it figured out along the way to capping

    Again, sorry if updating this is a tad slow, I just don't play as much anymore. Thanks for your patience!
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  5. #405
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I figured out what I think is the BEST endgame gearset is for this guy, and added this to the OP.

    Slight variations on this are possible in the random gear and the named items that have a random ability so look at all the random gear as a set, try to get what is listed as a set rather than looking specifically as I have it listed.

    I also made some changes to the lev 25 gearset to make transitioning into the endgame set easier.


    Head-Black Dragon Helm (+3 insight CON, green slot(+16 PRR), yellow slot(+8 CON), set bonus: (+3% double strike).

    Neck- Random Loot (Deadly 10, Search +20, colorless slot(+15 listen).

    Trinket- Planar Focus (+3 insight DEX, +1 alchemical saves, set bonus: (3% dodge, +5 sneak attack to hit, +8 sneak attack damage, true seeing).

    Cloak- Random Loot (+10 INT, +10 resist, colorless slot(+15 balance).

    Belt- EE Skullduggery (+6 INT skills, +6 DEX skills, seeker 10, green slot(vitality +20).

    Ring 1- Ring of Deceit (+20 to bluff, diplo, haggle, +8 CHA, improved deception, yellow slot(+2 insight CHA), colorless slot(+2 insight WIS).

    Ring 2- EE Ring of Shadows (ghostly, lesser displacement, +20 to move silently and hide, yellow slot(Globe of True Imperial Blood).

    Hands- Random Loot (+10 DEX, Falselife +50, colorless slot (+15 concentration).

    Feet- EE Goatskin Boots (speed XV perma haste!, green slot(protection +8), colorless slot(+8 STR), Fortification 115%.

    Bracers- EE Steady Handed Armbands (+5 exceptional seeker, +4 competence bonus to attack, yellow slot(deathblock) colorless slot(+15 disable device), --> swap to EE Bracers of Twisting Shade and tinkers goggles if an extra +10 to DD is needed).

    Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, yellow slot(+8 WIS), green slot(+8 natural armor). Swap to Goggles of Time Sensing for haste clickie.

    Armour- Black dragon light armour (need shadowdancer destiny to bump this to 25 max dex bonus) (Armour piercing 20%, Haste Guard, Set Bonus, Sup Acid Resist, Relentless Fury, blue slot(+2 armored agility).

    Quiver- one that adds + acid damage to ranged attacks

    Balizarde provides: Good Luck +2, +4 insight to all saves, and +8% insight Dodge


    Weapon main set is still Balizarde with 1d10 acid damage in the red slot + EMG with 1d10 acid damage in the red slot. For bosses I use 2 Balizardes or Balizards + Agony. for DR bypassers, 2 Celestia's works on almost everything needing bypassers. The only other thing I now carry is a good set of portal beaters. Celestias used to bypass portal DR, but not anymore. Don't ask how I found this out .
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-24-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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  6. #406
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I figured out what I think is the BEST endgame gearset is for this guy, and added this to the OP.
    It's not a bad setup. You've got a lot of utility stuff in there that isn't needed full time. I prefer a more dps oriented setup, but it really depends on your priorities and playstyle.

    Your final stats don't seem to add up based on the gear setup, unless you just haven't updated them yet. The only one that does is int. A breakdown on the others would be useful to see where it's all coming from.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  7. #407
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    It's not a bad setup. You've got a lot of utility stuff in there that isn't needed full time. I prefer a more dps oriented setup, but it really depends on your priorities and playstyle.

    Your final stats don't seem to add up based on the gear setup, unless you just haven't updated them yet. The only one that does is int. A breakdown on the others would be useful to see where it's all coming from.
    I am still lev 25 so I haven't updated the other stats yet. I just kinda did a quick layout on paper when U19 came out. I won't really finalize the numbers until I hit 28 again. Until then tho, the numbers posted will be close (withing 2 or 3 or so (I hope, LOL)).


    As for a more DPS set up, the only thing missing DPS wise that I can think of is a double strike boosting item and some on-20 effect items that are very poor replacements for anything in that gear set up. I think I have DPS about as good as it can be gear wise. What is missing?
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-24-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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  8. #408
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    As for a more DPS set up, the only thing missing DPS wise that I can think of is a double strike boosting item and some on-20 effect items that are very poor replacements for anything in that gear set up. I think I have DPS about as good as it can be gear wise. What is missing?
    Several of the items seem like obvious choices for a rogue, but I don't think some of them are the best option tbh. I gravitated toward many items in your set initially as well but eventually opted to replace them.

    Agony is better dps than Balizarde. They have the same crit profile on an assassin and Agony has higher base damage and more proc effects. I know Balizarde has more defensive properties, but you shouldn't really need them. I have no dodge items on my build and can get a 23 dodge. I rely on sneak attack procs to get some of it, but that's not a problem on a pure rogue. Good luck is easily slotted elsewhere. AC is useless for EE content so the insight AC isn't doing anything for you. The 4 insight to saves is nice, but your fort and will aren't likely to be high enough to make a difference in EE no matter what you do, and your reflex should be good enough without it.

    EE ring of shadows is a nice option, but I don't think it really offers much. You should have shadow form active all the time so the ghostly is useless. I end up with an 85 hide and move silently on my build without any items. I'm guessing you'd have a similar number and that's probably more than enough already. So the 20 hide/move silently from the ring isn't needed and can be swapped in if it is (when escaping, for example). Lesser displacement is nice, but is only 5% more than blurry which is available from wands and several items. So really all the ring is giving you is 5% concealment.

    To replace the blurry, I went with the EE bracers of twisting shade. It provides the same exc seeker 5 as the steady handed armbands, along with blurry, disable 20, and search 20. You shouldn't need the 4 competence bonus to attack from the steady handed armbands and you free up your neck suffix with the bracers of twisting shade.

    In the now empty ring slot, the skirmisher's ring adds an average of 5 damage per hit with the thunderstruck property and comes with con 8 freeing up your helm slot. Slot deathblock on the ring and you've replaced everything the steady handed armbands were giving you.

    The charisma on the ring of deceit isn't needed full time. If you really want it you can slot it elsewhere along with the bluff and/or diplo depending on which one you use or if you use both. The improved deception is a must have imo, but I think the better choice to get that is the avithoul ring. I notice you don't have a sneak attack 5 item, which the avithoul ring would cover.

    Which brings us to the planar focus. Planar focus of prowess is better than subterfuge. Again, you don't need the dodge. True seeing is already on the goggles. And exc sneak 3 (on the avithoul ring) plus the 4 damage from the prowess set bonus is more damage than the exc sneak 5 from the subterfuge set. The prowess set also makes up for the lost 4 to attack from the steady handed armbands if you're really concerned about that. Plus it's got 15 PRR and although you won't be able to get a huge amount of PRR, at least a little helps.

    You can easily slot the Globe, good luck, bluff (and/or diplo if you use it), insightful cha, and insightful wis somewhere else. You've got several things slotted that just aren't needed all the time or aren't doing much for you. AC is useless so the protection and natural armor can be replaced. Listen isn't needed. Balance seems unnecessary on this kind of a build, you should have plenty without an item bonus. Along with the empty helm slot, you've got 5 slots to replace everything of value if you get a necklace with bluff or diplo.

    Overall, you lose 5% concealment (the only thing of real value imo) and a few things of little value (some AC, unneeded skills, dodge, and 4 to saves) for a gain of 14 average damage per hit and 15 PRR. I'd say that's a pretty significant gain for a small loss. But as I said before, it really depends on your priorities.

    Lastly, you don't have a GS hp item. On a pure drow rogue with 14 starting con I wouldn't want to be without this. From my calculations, you should end up with 630 base hp, completely unbuffed. I'd want more than that personally, and every little bit is going to help. I'm not sure where you could slot it, but you can check out the link in my sig for my gear setup if you're looking for some possibilities.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 09-24-2013 at 09:51 PM.
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  9. #409
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Several of the items seem like obvious choices for a rogue, but I don't think some of them are the best option tbh. I gravitated toward many items in your set initially as well but eventually opted to replace them.

    Agony is better dps than Balizarde. They have the same crit profile on an assassin and Agony has higher base damage and more proc effects. I know Balizarde has more defensive properties, but you shouldn't really need them. I have no dodge items on my build and can get a 23 dodge. I rely on sneak attack procs to get some of it, but that's not a problem on a pure rogue. Good luck is easily slotted elsewhere. AC is useless for EE content so the insight AC isn't doing anything for you. The 4 insight to saves is nice, but your fort and will aren't likely to be high enough to make a difference in EE no matter what you do, and your reflex should be good enough without it.

    EE ring of shadows is a nice option, but I don't think it really offers much. You should have shadow form active all the time so the ghostly is useless. I end up with an 85 hide and move silently on my build without any items. I'm guessing you'd have a similar number and that's probably more than enough already. So the 20 hide/move silently from the ring isn't needed and can be swapped in if it is (when escaping, for example). Lesser displacement is nice, but is only 5% more than blurry which is available from wands and several items. So really all the ring is giving you is 5% concealment.

    To replace the blurry, I went with the EE bracers of twisting shade. It provides the same exc seeker 5 as the steady handed armbands, along with blurry, disable 20, and search 20. You shouldn't need the 4 competence bonus to attack from the steady handed armbands and you free up your neck suffix with the bracers of twisting shade.

    In the now empty ring slot, the skirmisher's ring adds an average of 5 damage per hit with the thunderstruck property and comes with con 8 freeing up your helm slot. Slot deathblock on the ring and you've replaced everything the steady handed armbands were giving you.

    The charisma on the ring of deceit isn't needed full time. If you really want it you can slot it elsewhere along with the bluff and/or diplo depending on which one you use or if you use both. The improved deception is a must have imo, but I think the better choice to get that is the avithoul ring. I notice you don't have a sneak attack 5 item, which the avithoul ring would cover.

    Which brings us to the planar focus. Planar focus of prowess is better than subterfuge. Again, you don't need the dodge. True seeing is already on the goggles. And exc sneak 3 (on the avithoul ring) plus the 4 damage from the prowess set bonus is more damage than the exc sneak 5 from the subterfuge set. The prowess set also makes up for the lost 4 to attack from the steady handed armbands if you're really concerned about that. Plus it's got 15 PRR and although you won't be able to get a huge amount of PRR, at least a little helps.

    You can easily slot the Globe, good luck, bluff (and/or diplo if you use it), insightful cha, and insightful wis somewhere else. You've got several things slotted that just aren't needed all the time or aren't doing much for you. AC is useless so the protection and natural armor can be replaced. Listen isn't needed. Balance seems unnecessary on this kind of a build, you should have plenty without an item bonus. Along with the empty helm slot, you've got 5 slots to replace everything of value if you get a necklace with bluff or diplo.

    Overall, you lose 5% concealment (the only thing of real value imo) and a few things of little value (some AC, unneeded skills, dodge, and 4 to saves) for a gain of 14 average damage per hit and 15 PRR. I'd say that's a pretty significant gain for a small loss. But as I said before, it really depends on your priorities.

    Lastly, you don't have a GS hp item. On a pure drow rogue with 14 starting con I wouldn't want to be without this. From my calculations, you should end up with 630 base hp, completely unbuffed. I'd want more than that personally, and every little bit is going to help. I'm not sure where you could slot it, but you can check out the link in my sig for my gear setup if you're looking for some possibilities.
    I guess we are going to disagree then. I hold high value and often use most of the things you disregard as useless, unnecessary, or not needed.

    A few points tho, I already have 610 HPs at lev 25, with better gear and levels alone that puts me at a comfortable 700+ which is more than enough, IMO, so greensteel JUST for 45 HP's is just not worth it when I could get something else with at least 3 useful things on the same slot.

    I do find AC is helpful, if only a little, even in EE.

    How are you getting 23 dodge with no items? I am at 23 with +11 coming from items. 2 shadow charges brings me to 25 (the rest coming from base + twists.) Walking around with anything less than 25% dodge all the time simply doesnt cut it for me. So relying on sneak attack procs is not a good thing. Same with concealment. 25% vs 20% is a BIG difference, 1 in 4 attacks will be stopped vs 1 in 5. All these little things really do make a difference. A will save in the mid 40's combined with slippery mind and impregnable mind works great in EE content, I very rarely fail a will save with that combo. Fort save isnt really an issue to begin with.
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-24-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  10. #410
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    A few points tho, I already have 610 HPs at lev 25, with better gear and levels alone that puts me at a comfortable 700+ which is more than enough, IMO, so greensteel JUST for 45 HP's is just not worth it when I could get something else with at least 3 useful things on the same slot.
    I did say 630 completely unbuffed, so I'm guessing your counting some buffs in there. A full breakdown would be helpful here as well to see exactly what you have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I do find AC is helpful, if only a little, even in EE.
    Unless I'm missing it, I don't see an AC breakdown in your OP. What AC do you actually end up with and how do you get there? I can't see how a pure rogue is going to get enough to matter in EE. And in anything less than EE, everything dies so quickly AC isn't necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    How are you getting 23 dodge with no items?
    Check the link in my sig for a full breakdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Same with concealment. 25% vs 20% is a BIG difference, 1 in 4 attacks will be stopped vs 1 in 5.
    I agree that an additional 5% miss chance is valuable, but I think it's the only thing valuable you'd be giving up. And I'd gladly trade 5% concealment for an extra 14 damage and 15 PRR. Concealment won't work on bosses but the extra damage and PRR certainly will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    A will save in the mid 40's combined with slippery mind and impregnable mind works great in EE content, I very rarely fail a will save with that combo.
    A mid 40s isn't going to do much for you in EE. Slippery mind just means you'll fail twice. And besides, properly buffed, will save is irrelevant. Protection from evil (easily self-buffed with level 10 wands) prevents nearly everything that requires a will save. So it's just not needed.

    As I said originally, you're gear set emphasizes utility. If that's your goal, then you've got the right setup. Personally, though, I don't think it's all that useful for the reasons I've already stated and I'd rather focus more on dps, but that's my goal.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  11. #411
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post

    How are you getting 23 dodge with no items? I am at 23 with +11 coming from items. 2 shadow charges brings me to 25 (the rest coming from base + twists.) Walking around with anything less than 25% dodge all the time simply doesnt cut it for me. So relying on sneak attack procs is not a good thing. Same with concealment. 25% vs 20% is a BIG difference, 1 in 4 attacks will be stopped vs 1 in 5. All these little things really do make a difference. A will save in the mid 40's combined with slippery mind and impregnable mind works great in EE content, I very rarely fail a will save with that combo. Fort save isnt really an issue to begin with.
    His 23% is actually a 6% which is really low and shouldn't be advised for anyone.

    Dodge: (with lithe rank 2, max dex bonus on the black dragon armor will be 23)
    6 uncanny dodge
    7 shadowcharges
    10 nimbleness
    23% Total

    7 Shadowcharges and 10 numbleness lol. His dodge is a 6% coming from uncanny dodge. The other 2 sources are both temporary and not relevant since nimbleness is 1% dodge every 6 seconds so he needs a whole minute to bring it to 10 lol. In 1 minute, a group of mob is dead.

    Shadowcharges, on the other hand, might be kinda permanent but to get 7, you need 7 mobs. Not realiable. Not counting that Shadow Manipulation and Consume are really useful abilities that spends 1 charge each every time.


    Your set is kinda better but there are some things that I don't like.

    Let's go in order:

    1) Agony > Balizarde. No doubt about this.
    2) You are seriously lacking of Heal Amp on your gear. With 700~ HP, you NEED it. What I would do to achieve it: EE Steady Handed Armbands really doesn't give you anything but Exc seeker IMHO.
    3) Give up the cloak +10 int, +10 resist for Adamantine Cloak of Wolf for Exc seeker +5, Dodge 8%, +4 Attack which IS kinda useful)
    4) Get Goatskin boots with +8 dex instead of Fortification 115%.
    5) Get the +10 Int, +50 False life into gloves, you will lose 2 dex thou.

    Optional but I would swap these out:

    6) Give up the Ring of Deceit (besides Improved Decepetion, you can slot Cha+8 somewhere else) for the +24 PRR ring.
    7) I also don't like the EE Ring of shadows but no real solution here. Seal of House avithoul would give you +2 Ins Dex and improved deception. Ghostly is useless with Shadow form IIRC and Lesser Displacement well...just farm out 5-6 displacement clickies.
    8) This frees up your trinket slot for the Planar focus of Prowess for a +4 damage AND Insight Dex +3

    Let's see what you will lose with this: 2 dex, +2 resist (slot +8 somewhere else) and 15% fort, Lesser displacement
    You gain: 30% heal amp, Superior parrying on perma slot, 8% dodge from cloak, +39 PRR, +4 damage

    If you don't like having Hamp for some weird reason, use the bracers with the 8% doublestrike there.


    So, I'd go with:

    Head-Black Dragon Helm (+3 insight CON, green slot(+16 PRR), yellow slot(+8 CON), set bonus: (+3% double strike).

    Neck- Random Loot (Deadly 10, Search +20, colorless slot(+15 listen).

    Trinket- Planar Focus of Prowess (+3 insight DEX, set bonus: 4 damage, 15 PRR)

    Cloak- Adamantine cloak of wolf (Exceptional Seeker +5, Dodge Bonus 8%, Attack Bonus +4, Diversion 20%)

    Belt- EE Skullduggery (+6 INT skills, +6 DEX skills, seeker 10, green slot(vitality +20).

    Ring 1- Seal of House avithoul (+2 Insight Dex, Sneak Attack Bonus +5, Exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +3, Deception I)

    Ring 2- 24 PRR Ring.

    Hands- Random Loot (+10 Int, Falselife +50, colorless slot (Globe).

    Feet- EE Goatskin Boots (speed XV perma haste!, green slot(protection +8), colorless slot(+8 STR), +8 dex).

    Bracers- Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying (30% hamp, +4 saves)

    Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, yellow slot(+8 WIS), green slot(+8 natural armor). Swap to Goggles of Time Sensing for haste clickie.

    Armour- Black dragon light armour (need shadowdancer destiny to bump this to 25 max dex bonus) (Armour piercing 20%, Haste Guard, Set Bonus, Sup Acid Resist, Relentless Fury, blue slot(+2 armored agility).

    Quiver- one that adds + acid damage to ranged attacks

    Agony + EMG
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  12. #412
    Community Member Rogann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Head-Black Dragon Helm (+3 insight CON, green slot(+16 PRR)

    Ring 2- 24 PRR Ring.
    Sheltering and slotted PRR don't stack.

  13. #413
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    His 23% is actually a 6% which is really low and shouldn't be advised for anyone.

    Dodge: (with lithe rank 2, max dex bonus on the black dragon armor will be 23)
    6 uncanny dodge
    7 shadowcharges
    10 nimbleness
    23% Total

    7 Shadowcharges and 10 numbleness lol. His dodge is a 6% coming from uncanny dodge. The other 2 sources are both temporary and not relevant since nimbleness is 1% dodge every 6 seconds so he needs a whole minute to bring it to 10 lol. In 1 minute, a group of mob is dead.

    Shadowcharges, on the other hand, might be kinda permanent but to get 7, you need 7 mobs. Not realiable. Not counting that Shadow Manipulation and Consume are really useful abilities that spends 1 charge each every time.


    Your set is kinda better but there are some things that I don't like.

    Let's go in order:

    1) Agony > Balizarde. No doubt about this.
    2) You are seriously lacking of Heal Amp on your gear. With 700~ HP, you NEED it. What I would do to achieve it: EE Steady Handed Armbands really doesn't give you anything but Exc seeker IMHO.
    3) Give up the cloak +10 int, +10 resist for Adamantine Cloak of Wolf for Exc seeker +5, Dodge 8%, +4 Attack which IS kinda useful)
    4) Get Goatskin boots with +8 dex instead of Fortification 115%.
    5) Get the +10 Int, +50 False life into gloves, you will lose 2 dex thou.

    Optional but I would swap these out:

    6) Give up the Ring of Deceit (besides Improved Decepetion, you can slot Cha+8 somewhere else) for the +24 PRR ring.
    7) I also don't like the EE Ring of shadows but no real solution here. Seal of House avithoul would give you +2 Ins Dex and improved deception. Ghostly is useless with Shadow form IIRC and Lesser Displacement well...just farm out 5-6 displacement clickies.
    8) This frees up your trinket slot for the Planar focus of Prowess for a +4 damage AND Insight Dex +3

    Let's see what you will lose with this: 2 dex, +2 resist (slot +8 somewhere else) and 15% fort, Lesser displacement
    You gain: 30% heal amp, Superior parrying on perma slot, 8% dodge from cloak, +39 PRR, +4 damage

    If you don't like having Hamp for some weird reason, use the bracers with the 8% doublestrike there.


    So, I'd go with:

    Head-Black Dragon Helm (+3 insight CON, green slot(+16 PRR), yellow slot(+8 CON), set bonus: (+3% double strike).

    Neck- Random Loot (Deadly 10, Search +20, colorless slot(+15 listen).

    Trinket- Planar Focus of Prowess (+3 insight DEX, set bonus: 4 damage, 15 PRR)

    Cloak- Adamantine cloak of wolf (Exceptional Seeker +5, Dodge Bonus 8%, Attack Bonus +4, Diversion 20%)

    Belt- EE Skullduggery (+6 INT skills, +6 DEX skills, seeker 10, green slot(vitality +20).

    Ring 1- Seal of House avithoul (+2 Insight Dex, Sneak Attack Bonus +5, Exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +3, Deception I)

    Ring 2- 24 PRR Ring.

    Hands- Random Loot (+10 Int, Falselife +50, colorless slot (Globe).

    Feet- EE Goatskin Boots (speed XV perma haste!, green slot(protection +8), colorless slot(+8 STR), +8 dex).

    Bracers- Greater Convalescent of Superior Parrying (30% hamp, +4 saves)

    Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, yellow slot(+8 WIS), green slot(+8 natural armor). Swap to Goggles of Time Sensing for haste clickie.

    Armour- Black dragon light armour (need shadowdancer destiny to bump this to 25 max dex bonus) (Armour piercing 20%, Haste Guard, Set Bonus, Sup Acid Resist, Relentless Fury, blue slot(+2 armored agility).

    Quiver- one that adds + acid damage to ranged attacks

    Agony + EMG
    Oh for healing amp, I have a greensteel dagger with 10, 20, and 30% amp on it, I make it a set with my heal scroll stack so whenever I heal scroll myself it is equipped. That set up + scroll mastery heals me for more than half my total. Since I usually think about healing myself when I get to about half my total, it works well enough for me. If an actual healer is healing me, amp is not needed with the massive overhealing most healers do anyway.

    Some good suggestions for equipment, I will give them some thought and try them out when i cap again and see what works better. Thanks. Maybe the cloak, but I am not sold on the bracers. I also thought the sneak bonuses on the avithoul ring were borked for some reason, I have the ring, but the difference between having that vs the bonus in Planar focus of subterfuge is relatively small and you gain so much more with the rings I am using now, that for me makes those 3 items as set much more valuable than what you have. I will give it a try tho, to see, since I have those items in the bank anyway. I am thinking cloak + doublestrike bracers might actually be a nice improvement. As well as ditching the Ring of Shadows for a stack of displacement clickies. (I tend to avoid things that I have to clickie every 90 seconds tho, :/. Just my preference.)

    As for Balizaede vs Agony, I often dual wield them when I am not assassinating, and I have to say I really don't see a difference in the damage output. In any case the difference is relatively small. I only swap in EMG vs mobs that test my assassinate DC (which doesnt happen too often on this guy) these days as well. I really like using them both.
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-25-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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  14. #414
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    His 23% is actually a 6% which is really low and shouldn't be advised for anyone.

    Dodge: (with lithe rank 2, max dex bonus on the black dragon armor will be 23)
    6 uncanny dodge
    7 shadowcharges
    10 nimbleness
    23% Total

    7 Shadowcharges and 10 numbleness lol. His dodge is a 6% coming from uncanny dodge. The other 2 sources are both temporary and not relevant since nimbleness is 1% dodge every 6 seconds so he needs a whole minute to bring it to 10 lol. In 1 minute, a group of mob is dead.

    Shadowcharges, on the other hand, might be kinda permanent but to get 7, you need 7 mobs. Not realiable. Not counting that Shadow Manipulation and Consume are really useful abilities that spends 1 charge each every time.
    7 shadowcharges are easy to keep up. Nimbleness procs every 2 seconds, so it takes 12 seconds to build up 10 stacks, not 1 minute. That's easily sustainable in most EE encounters. I've been up front about keeping my dodge maxed off of sneak attack procs. I understand if some don't want to rely on that, but I personally don't see it as a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Your set is kinda better but there are some things that I don't like.

    Let's go in order:

    1) Agony > Balizarde. No doubt about this.
    2) You are seriously lacking of Heal Amp on your gear. With 700~ HP, you NEED it. What I would do to achieve it: EE Steady Handed Armbands really doesn't give you anything but Exc seeker IMHO.
    3) Give up the cloak +10 int, +10 resist for Adamantine Cloak of Wolf for Exc seeker +5, Dodge 8%, +4 Attack which IS kinda useful)
    4) Get Goatskin boots with +8 dex instead of Fortification 115%.
    5) Get the +10 Int, +50 False life into gloves, you will lose 2 dex thou.

    Optional but I would swap these out:

    6) Give up the Ring of Deceit (besides Improved Decepetion, you can slot Cha+8 somewhere else) for the +24 PRR ring.
    7) I also don't like the EE Ring of shadows but no real solution here. Seal of House avithoul would give you +2 Ins Dex and improved deception. Ghostly is useless with Shadow form IIRC and Lesser Displacement well...just farm out 5-6 displacement clickies.
    8) This frees up your trinket slot for the Planar focus of Prowess for a +4 damage AND Insight Dex +3

    Let's see what you will lose with this: 2 dex, +2 resist (slot +8 somewhere else) and 15% fort, Lesser displacement
    You gain: 30% heal amp, Superior parrying on perma slot, 8% dodge from cloak, +39 PRR, +4 damage

    If you don't like having Hamp for some weird reason, use the bracers with the 8% doublestrike there.
    I like that you say Mellkor's set is better but then agree with most of the changes I suggested.

    I went with the skirmisher's ring over the guardian ring for exactly the reason that Rogann pointed out. The guardian ring only adds another 8 PRR. I'd value 5 average damage per hit over 8 PRR personally.

    EDIT: I forgot about the heal amp stick. I'd agree with Mellkor that is the ideal way to get heal amp for scroll healing.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 09-25-2013 at 09:37 AM.
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  15. #415
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogann View Post
    Sheltering and slotted PRR don't stack.
    True. He can slot the resistance +8 in the helm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Oh for healing amp, I have a greensteel dagger with 10, 20, and 30% amp on it, I make it a set with my heal scroll stack so whenever I heal scroll myself it is equipped. That set up + scroll mastery heals me for more than half my total. Since I usually think about healing myself when I get to about half my total, it works well enough for me. If an actual healer is healing me, amp is not needed with the massive overhealing most healers do anyway.

    Some good suggestions for equipment, I will give them some thought and try them out when i cap again and see what works better. Thanks. Maybe the cloak, but I am not sold on the bracers. I also thought the sneak bonuses on the avithoul ring were borked for some reason, I have the ring, but the difference between having that vs the bonus in Planar focus of subterfuge is relatively small and you gain so much more with the rings I am using now, that for me makes those 3 items as set much more valuable than what you have. I will give it a try tho, to see, since I have those items in the bank anyway. I am thinking cloak + doublestrike bracers might actually be a nice improvement. As well as ditching the Ring of Shadows for a stack of displacement clickies. (I tend to avoid things that I have to clickie every 90 seconds tho, :/. Just my preference.)

    As for Balizaede vs Agony, I often dual wield them when I am not assassinating, and I have to say I really don't see a difference in the damage output. In any case the difference is relatively small. I only swap in EMG vs mobs that test my assassinate DC (which doesnt happen too often on this guy) these days as well. I really like using them both.
    Fair enough for healing amp. It's still good for those times when the healers throw a Mass cure here and there. Anyway, I'd go with the 8% doublestrike bracers. They are really nice and they have the Dex +9 so you wouldn't need to slot +8 dex and can keep Fortification 115% on goatskin boots.

    Having Planar focus of subterfuge is really no different than having Seal of Avithoul. You will lose +2 Exceptional sneak attack but gain +4 damage which is more damage overall. And you also gain a 15 PRR, along with the 24 of the ring is a nice chunk of damage mitigation (I think around 21%).

    As for Displacement clickies...yeah well, they are like mandatory anyway. I also don't like having to use them every 90 seconds but I have to if I want to survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    7 shadowcharges are easy to keep up. Nimbleness procs every 2 seconds, so it takes 12 seconds to build up 10 stacks, not 1 minute. That's easily sustainable in most EE encounters. I've been up front about keeping my dodge maxed off of sneak attack procs. I understand if some don't want to rely on that, but I personally don't see it as a problem.
    Yeah my bad. 12 seconds are still a lot since it is not permanent but you have to build it for every group of mobs. You will start a fight with basically 6-13% dodge which is low. Wouldn't reccomend to anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  16. #416
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Based on some of Wizza's suggestions, this is the gear set I think I'll go with. This setup gets me most of the things I felt were missing before.

    Gear Set:
    Weapons: Agony and EMG, dual Sacrificial Daggers, assorted crafted DR breakers for any occasion
    Armor: Flawless Black Dragonhide Armor (haste guard/armor pierce20/relentless fury/acid res40/blue slotted PRR16/SET: doublestrike3)
    Goggles: EH Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot20/TS/green slotted blindness immunity/colorless slotted exc int1)
    Helm: EH Helm of the Black Dragon (dex3-con3/green slotted HP40/colorless slotted vitality/SET: doublestrike3)
    Neck: Deadly 10 of Resistance 10 with colorless slotted bluff 15 (competence damage10/resistance10/bluff15)
    Trinket: Planar Focus of Prowess (dex3-con3/SET: attack4/damage4/PRR15)
    Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (exc seeker5/dodge8/attack4/diversion20)
    Belt: EE Skullduggery Kit (int skills6/dex skills6/random-seeker10/green slotted good luck2)
    Ring swap: Seal of House Avithoul (wis2/exc sneak3/sneak attack5/imp deception)
    Gloves: Gloves of the Master Illusionist (int11/yellow slotted cha8)
    Boots: EE Goatskin Boots (melee alacrity15/striding30/random-fortification115/green slotted wis8/colorless slotted str8)
    Ring: Skirmisher's Ring (con8/thunderstruck/yellow slotted deathblock)
    Bracers: Skirmisher's Bracers (dex9/doublestrike8)

    I'm still not sold on the guardian's ring. I calculated the damage reduction bonus and it's only about another 2-4% over the other PRR and whether or not you have tensor's running.

    I don't like losing the GS hp item but exc seeker 5 and doublestrike 8 are both great dps additions, and I'll already be at 700 with no buffs whatsoever. So I'm willing to give it up.
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  17. #417
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Based on some of Wizza's suggestions, this is the gear set I think I'll go with. This setup gets me most of the things I felt were missing before.

    Gear Set:
    Weapons: Agony and EMG, dual Sacrificial Daggers, assorted crafted DR breakers for any occasion
    Armor: Flawless Black Dragonhide Armor (haste guard/armor pierce20/relentless fury/acid res40/blue slotted PRR16/SET: doublestrike3)
    Goggles: EH Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot20/TS/green slotted blindness immunity/colorless slotted exc int1)
    Helm: EH Helm of the Black Dragon (dex3-con3/green slotted HP40/colorless slotted vitality/SET: doublestrike3)
    Neck: Deadly 10 of Resistance 10 with colorless slotted bluff 15 (competence damage10/resistance10/bluff15)
    Trinket: Planar Focus of Prowess (dex3-con3/SET: attack4/damage4/PRR15)
    Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (exc seeker5/dodge8/attack4/diversion20)
    Belt: EE Skullduggery Kit (int skills6/dex skills6/random-seeker10/green slotted good luck2)
    Ring swap: Seal of House Avithoul (wis2/exc sneak3/sneak attack5/imp deception)
    Gloves: Gloves of the Master Illusionist (int11/yellow slotted cha8)
    Boots: EE Goatskin Boots (melee alacrity15/striding30/random-fortification115/green slotted wis8/colorless slotted str8)
    Ring: Skirmisher's Ring (con8/thunderstruck/yellow slotted deathblock)
    Bracers: Skirmisher's Bracers (dex9/doublestrike8)

    I'm still not sold on the guardian's ring. I calculated the damage reduction bonus and it's only about another 2-4% over the other PRR and whether or not you have tensor's running.

    I don't like losing the GS hp item but exc seeker 5 and doublestrike 8 are both great dps additions, and I'll already be at 700 with no buffs whatsoever. So I'm willing to give it up.
    31 PRR (Prowess + 16 augment) is 17,55% Damage reduction.
    39 PRR (Prowess + 24 PRR ring) is 21,45% damage reduction. I'd say it's worth it.

    But, if you don't think it is worth, I'd put Deadly into the ring and craft a 45 hp GS necklace. Put resistance +8 in the helm and Blindness Immunity (I see you like it) in the Skirmisher's ring at the cost of Deathblock.

    But yeah, that's pretty much the gear I'm looking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  18. #418
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    31 PRR (Prowess + 16 augment) is 17,55% Damage reduction.
    39 PRR (Prowess + 24 PRR ring) is 21,45% damage reduction. I'd say it's worth it.

    But, if you don't think it is worth, I'd put Deadly into the ring and craft a 45 hp GS necklace. Put resistance +8 in the helm and Blindness Immunity (I see you like it) in the Skirmisher's ring at the cost of Deathblock.

    But yeah, that's pretty much the gear I'm looking for.
    One thing to consider with PRR, yes it is nice to have, but for me it is low priority since I try to avoid getting hit with this toon, so things like maxing dodge, AC, concealment, and incorporeal are way more important IMO. The slotted version is all I will be using.

    As for me I think I will go with the double strike bracers, Wolf Cloak and +11 int gloves with +40 hps slotted in and adjust some of the other slots accordingly.
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  19. #419
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    31 PRR (Prowess + 16 augment) is 17,55% Damage reduction.
    39 PRR (Prowess + 24 PRR ring) is 21,45% damage reduction. I'd say it's worth it.

    But, if you don't think it is worth, I'd put Deadly into the ring and craft a 45 hp GS necklace. Put resistance +8 in the helm and Blindness Immunity (I see you like it) in the Skirmisher's ring at the cost of Deathblock.

    But yeah, that's pretty much the gear I'm looking for.
    You're forgetting about the base 12 PRR granted with wearing light armor. So you'd have:

    12 base + 15 prowess + 16 augment = 43 PRR or 22.80% damage reduction
    12 base + 15 prowess + 24 guardian ring = 51 PRR or 26.07 damage reduction

    That's only a difference of 3.27% or about 10 points of damage off a 300 point hit. IMO, that's not huge and worth giving up for another 5 average damage or 45 hp as you suggest.

    EDIT: You've got too many rings in your suggestion: avithoul, deadly, and skirmisher's. Unless you're suggesting to give up the avithoul ring for deadly, which is not a good choice since avithoul provides 3 more damage than deadly 10 and has improved deception.

    A better solution is to move the deadly 10 of resistance 10 with slotted bluff 15 into the skirmisher's ring slot, use a GS hp necklace, get con 3 and 8 in the trinket and helm, and dex 2 on the avithoul ring. That evens out the dex, loses 2 wis, thunderstruck, and deathblock, and gains 45 hp. That might be worth considering.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 09-26-2013 at 08:32 AM.
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  20. #420
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I am going with this I think. I am still on the fence about EE Ring of Shadows. I may swap it for CON 10 of something and rely on a stack of displacement clickies. Or put the neck item on the ring and go with GS 45 HP item. /shrug.

    Head-Black Dragon Helm (+3 insight CON, green slot(+16 PRR), yellow slot(+8 CON), set bonus: (+3% artifact bonus to double strike).

    Neck- Random Loot (Deadly 10, Search +20, colorless slot(+15 listen).

    Trinket- Planar Focus of Subterfuge (+3 insight DEX, +1 alchemical saves, set bonus: (3% dodge, +5 sneak attack to hit, +8 sneak attack damage, true seeing).

    Cloak- Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (+5 exceptional seeker, 8% dodge, attack +4, diversion 20%).

    Belt- EE Skullduggery (+6 INT skills, +6 DEX skills, random ability(seeker 10), green slot(resist +8).

    Ring 1- Ring of Deceit (+20 to bluff, diplo, haggle, +8 CHA, improved deception, yellow slot(vitality +20), colorless slot(+2 insight WIS).

    Ring 2- EE Ring of Shadows (ghostly, lesser displacement, +20 to move silently and hide, yellow slot(Globe of True Imperial Blood).

    Hands- Gloves of the Master Illusionist (INT +11, some useless stuff, yellow(false life +40).

    Feet- EE Goatskin Boots (speed XV perma haste!, green slot(protection +8), colorless slot(+8 STR), random ability (fortification 115%).

    Bracers- Skirmishers Bracers (+9 DEX, doublestrike +8%), --> swap to EE Bracers of Twisting Shade and tinkers goggles when using disable device if needed or when +20 to search is needed).

    Eyes- EE Intricate Field Optics (+3 insight INT, True Seeing, Spot +20, yellow slot(+8 WIS), green slot(+8 natural armor). ---> swap to Goggles of Time Sensing for haste (until you aquire the boots).

    Armour- Black dragon light armour (need shadowdancer destiny to bump this to 25 max dex bonus) (Armour piercing 20%, Haste Guard, Set Bonus, Sup Acid Resist, Relentless Fury, blue slot(+2 armored agility).

    Quiver- one that adds + acid damage to ranged attacks.

    Balizarde provides: Good Luck +2, +4 insight to all saves, and +8% insight Dodge.


    Weapon main set is still Balizarde with 1d10 acid damage in the red slot + EMG with 1d10 acid damage in the red slot. For bosses OR for when my assassinate DC is not challanged by mobs I am fighting, I use Balizarde + Agony. When crowd control is important, I use 2 EMG's. For DR bypassers, 2 Celestia's works on almost everything needing bypassers. I also carry a good set of portal beaters.
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-26-2013 at 08:26 AM.
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