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  1. #381
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I used my +20 heart to LR to all Arti (to get an Arti past life) then TR'd to Drow Elf. I like Drow Elf for its ability to get +3 more INT than human and I like drow elf racial tree for this build a tiny bit better. Human is still a good choice, tho. Basically, the only real difference is humans get an extra feat, -3 INT, and the ability to have haste and damage boost active at the same time compared to drow. I also went dex as secondary stat instead of str, after playing around a bit the last week or so, I think it really works well now with the new enhancements and you only have to put points into 3 stats instead of 4. I started with 8 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 20 INT, 8 WIS, 10 CHA. (36pt build). All level-ups into INT. a +5 dex tome qualifies me for improved sneak if I decide to take it. Overall U19 brings some nice improvements to this build. (except for the TR part ).
    Which feat are you dropping for Weapon Finesse?

    I would think the choice would be either
    IC:S/P / Dodge
    or
    Insightful Reflexes

    Your only using EMG for assassinates and you have the improved crit on your other weapons.
    With the change to dodge Balizarde has 8 dodge now so easy to hit the dodge cap without Dodge feat.
    Would Insightful Reflexes be more beneficial than the other options as its about an extra 10 reflex saves. If its less than 6 reflex then changing a twist for 6 reflex/spot from Draconic and having Dodge feat would be better? This still depends on hitting dodge cap.
    Last edited by HuneyMunster; 08-29-2013 at 05:59 AM.

  2. #382
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    Which feat are you dropping for Weapon Finesse?

    I would think the choice would be either
    IC:S/P / Dodge
    or
    Insightful Reflexes

    Your only using EMG for assassinates and you have the improved crit on your other weapons.
    With the change to dodge Balizarde has 8 dodge now so easy to hit the dodge cap without Dodge feat.
    Would Insightful Reflexes be more beneficial than the other options as its about an extra 10 reflex saves. If its less than 6 reflex then changing a twist for 6 reflex/spot from Draconic and having Dodge feat would be better? This still depends on hitting dodge cap.
    Dodge is the best choice, I am thinking atm. Easy to fit in a +10% dodge item with a slot to replace something somewhere at endgame (belt or cloak, most likely).

    The U19 gear shuffle is very complicated, I don't really think it will be practical to list specific gear, I will most likely make a list of must haves and a list of things to slot in and leave it at that.
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  3. #383
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Dodge is the best choice, I am thinking atm. Easy to fit in a +10% dodge item with a slot to replace something somewhere at endgame (belt or cloak, most likely).

    The U19 gear shuffle is very complicated, I don't really think it will be practical to list specific gear, I will most likely make a list of must haves and a list of things to slot in and leave it at that.
    How are you finding the Character post TR?

    Its looking like Drow might be the way to go, the lower Con isn't as much of an issue as it used to be at end game with the stupidly large number of hp bonuses available now.

  4. #384
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    U19 changes that affect max theoretical assassinate DC:

    +2 INT--drow elf racial tree
    +2 INT-- assassin tree
    +2 INT-- mechanic tree
    +1 INT-- lev 28 feat
    +3 INT-- +11 int item
    ------------------------------
    +10 more INT than what was possible before U19.

    +5 assassinate DC-- measure the foe enhancement.

    U10 brings a total of +10 to assasssinate DC, adding in sources already listed in the OP that makes the max theoretical DC 80.

    Am I missing anything?
    Max theoretical is actually 81. Helf can get 1 more int than drow through action surge. Max int with drow is 85, with helf action surge it's 86. You'd have to spend 15 points in helf tree, 22 in mechanic, and 41 in assassin. So it would eat up most of your points, but it's possible. So as far as I can tell, this would be max:

    10 base
    20 rogue levels
    6 stealthy (shadowdancer tier 1)
    2 EMG
    5 measure the foe
    38 int86 (18 base, 5 tome, 7 levels, 1 human adaptability, 1 arti dil, 3 action surge, 2 capstone, 2 assassin, 2 mechanic, 11 gloves of the master illusionist, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 yugo, 2 ship, 6 epic destiny, 3 twisted, 3 great int, 2 completionist, 1 litany, 2 store pot, 3 house D pot, 4 abashai cookies, 2 bard song)
    81 Theoretical Max Assassinate DC

    Also, if anyone is looking for gear suggestions, I list mine here. There is a lot to fit in. All I'm missing (some of which isn't completely necessary) is seeker, threat reduction, heal amp, doublestrike, and open lock. I'm open to feedback and I'd like to hear what others are planning for gear.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  5. #385
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I used my +20 heart to LR to all Arti (to get an Arti past life) then TR'd to Drow Elf. I like Drow Elf for its ability to get +3 more INT than human and I like drow elf racial tree for this build a tiny bit better. Human is still a good choice, tho. Basically, the only real difference is humans get an extra feat, -3 INT, and the ability to have haste and damage boost active at the same time compared to drow. I also went dex as secondary stat instead of str, after playing around a bit the last week or so, I think it really works well now with the new enhancements and you only have to put points into 3 stats instead of 4. I started with 8 STR, 16 DEX, 14 CON, 20 INT, 8 WIS, 10 CHA. (36pt build). All level-ups into INT. a +5 dex tome qualifies me for improved sneak if I decide to take it. Overall U19 brings some nice improvements to this build. (except for the TR part ).
    Just confirming, you were able to use the +20 LR then immediately TR?

  6. #386
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auran82 View Post
    Just confirming, you were able to use the +20 LR then immediately TR?
    Yes. I used the +20 LR and then I TR's about 5 mins after I finished with the LR. The LR and TR are on separate timers. So as long as you havent TR'd recently, you can do this. (I am not sure what the TR timer is, maybe a week?)
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-02-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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  7. #387
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Max theoretical is actually 81. Helf can get 1 more int than drow through action surge. Max int with drow is 85, with helf action surge it's 86. You'd have to spend 15 points in helf tree, 22 in mechanic, and 41 in assassin. So it would eat up most of your points, but it's possible. So as far as I can tell, this would be max:

    10 base
    20 rogue levels
    6 stealthy (shadowdancer tier 1)
    2 EMG
    5 measure the foe
    38 int86 (18 base, 5 tome, 7 levels, 1 human adaptability, 1 arti dil, 3 action surge, 2 capstone, 2 assassin, 2 mechanic, 11 gloves of the master illusionist, 3 insight, 1 exc, 2 yugo, 2 ship, 6 epic destiny, 3 twisted, 3 great int, 2 completionist, 1 litany, 2 store pot, 3 house D pot, 4 abashai cookies, 2 bard song)
    81 Theoretical Max Assassinate DC

    Also, if anyone is looking for gear suggestions, I list mine here. There is a lot to fit in. All I'm missing (some of which isn't completely necessary) is seeker, threat reduction, heal amp, doublestrike, and open lock. I'm open to feedback and I'd like to hear what others are planning for gear.
    Thanks for the info. how long does the action surge last?

    Again, people, remember this number is just for reference, this number is in no way practical to maintain. currently around 70 DC is the max practical DC that one could reasonably maintain.
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  8. #388
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Thanks for the info. how long does the action surge last?

    Again, people, remember this number is just for reference, this number is in no way practical to maintain. currently around 70 DC is the max practical DC that one could reasonably maintain.
    Admittedly I have never used an action surge, but the description states: "While under the effect of any Action Boost, you gain a +1/+2/+3 Action Boost bonus to Intelligence." So as long as the action boost lasts I assume, which is 30 seconds in most cases.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  9. #389
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    Admittedly I have never used an action surge, but the description states: "While under the effect of any Action Boost, you gain a +1/+2/+3 Action Boost bonus to Intelligence." So as long as the action boost lasts I assume, which is 30 seconds in most cases.
    I will add this to the theoretical side of things but leave it out of the practical side of Assassinate DC's then

    It would be nice to mess around with an 81 DC tho vs the hardest to assassinate mobs in the game and see how it goes!
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  10. #390
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I have started to update the OP for U19. This is a work in progress, so please refrain from jumping down my throat about inconsistencies until I am done. I will let you know when I think I am done
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  11. #391
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Looking good so far, I think Drow might be the way to go on this kind of build seeing that most of the old bad points about Drow have more or less been removed (toughness enhancements, lesser con, which is less of an issue now with the amount of extra con and hp bonuses available)

    Also, with the Drow tree now having extra Int available it makes it even better.

    Gear wise, I think the best thing to do is work out what effects are irreplacable (+3 insight stats where needed, set bonuses) and shore up secondary stats with augment slots on random gear (I have a ML27 necklace with +8 Deadly of +9 Accuracy and a colourless slot for example)

  12. #392
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    I would make a few changes to your feats.

    First of all: Drop 1x Epic Intelligence for Epic Toughness. 50hp are HUGE in the new content in EE. Now now, I know you are going to say "but this is an int based build". However, this changes will lead to another change in your Epic Destiny: you can drop another 1x Int (so you go from 64 to 62, just 1 DC loss) but you will be able to pick Consume.

    I think, and this is pure speculation as I haven't tried it post U19, that it is now worth something. DC is : 10 + Char level + Int mod. In your case, with +26 int, you are looking at 10 + 28 + 26 = 64 DC. If, after trying it out, this doesn't work well enough, then my suggestion to pick Epic Toughness is still valid.


    About your gear:

    1) Drop Girdle of Giants Brawn and get an EE Skullduggery with 50 HP, Heavy fort in the green slot.
    2) Goggles: random gen Deadly X/XI of Resistance +9
    3) Ring2: Random gen +10/+11 Int with a Colorless slot AND dodge if you can get it.
    4) Boots: EE Goatskin boots with +8 Dex in the random slot
    5) Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (Exc Seeker +5, Dodge +8%, Attack +4, Threat -20%)
    6) Bracers: Greater convalescent of Superior Parrying


    With this setup, you are covering: Dodge 8%, 50 HP, +11 Damage, +9 Resistance, Globe in Ring2, +8 Dex in boots, +30% hamp, +4 saves from parrying.

    You are losing: the STR bonuses of Girdle, nothing from Goggles (get heavy fort in the GS and slot PRR +16 in Skullduggery), Ghostly (Ring of the Stalker Tier 3?), Striding 30% from boots (useless), 25% exc fort, +2 insight dex bracers (that you can slot like EVERYWHERE).

    I'm probably missing something, let me know. This is the best I could come up with at the moment.
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  13. #393
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I would make a few changes to your feats.

    First of all: Drop 1x Epic Intelligence for Epic Toughness. 50hp are HUGE in the new content in EE. Now now, I know you are going to say "but this is an int based build". However, this changes will lead to another change in your Epic Destiny: you can drop another 1x Int (so you go from 64 to 62, just 1 DC loss) but you will be able to pick Consume.

    I think, and this is pure speculation as I haven't tried it post U19, that it is now worth something. DC is : 10 + Char level + Int mod. In your case, with +26 int, you are looking at 10 + 28 + 26 = 64 DC. If, after trying it out, this doesn't work well enough, then my suggestion to pick Epic Toughness is still valid.


    About your gear:

    1) Drop Girdle of Giants Brawn and get an EE Skullduggery with 50 HP, Heavy fort in the green slot.
    2) Goggles: random gen Deadly X/XI of Resistance +9
    3) Ring2: Random gen +10/+11 Int with a Colorless slot AND dodge if you can get it.
    4) Boots: EE Goatskin boots with +8 Dex in the random slot
    5) Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (Exc Seeker +5, Dodge +8%, Attack +4, Threat -20%)
    6) Bracers: Greater convalescent of Superior Parrying


    With this setup, you are covering: Dodge 8%, 50 HP, +11 Damage, +9 Resistance, Globe in Ring2, +8 Dex in boots, +30% hamp, +4 saves from parrying.

    You are losing: the STR bonuses of Girdle, nothing from Goggles (get heavy fort in the GS and slot PRR +16 in Skullduggery), Ghostly (Ring of the Stalker Tier 3?), Striding 30% from boots (useless), 25% exc fort, +2 insight dex bracers (that you can slot like EVERYWHERE).

    I'm probably missing something, let me know. This is the best I could come up with at the moment.
    I did something similar with feats and gear on my build here.

    The goatskin boots provide striding 30 btw, it's part of the speed property.

    EDIT: Also, you can't fit epic toughness on a drow without severely gimping yourself somewhere else. That's one reason I went with human. You lose 2 assassinate DCs overall. I end up with a standing 69 DC.
    Last edited by CThruTheEgo; 09-05-2013 at 06:05 AM.
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  14. #394
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I would make a few changes to your feats.

    First of all: Drop 1x Epic Intelligence for Epic Toughness. 50hp are HUGE in the new content in EE. Now now, I know you are going to say "but this is an int based build". However, this changes will lead to another change in your Epic Destiny: you can drop another 1x Int (so you go from 64 to 62, just 1 DC loss) but you will be able to pick Consume.

    I think, and this is pure speculation as I haven't tried it post U19, that it is now worth something. DC is : 10 + Char level + Int mod. In your case, with +26 int, you are looking at 10 + 28 + 26 = 64 DC. If, after trying it out, this doesn't work well enough, then my suggestion to pick Epic Toughness is still valid.


    About your gear:

    1) Drop Girdle of Giants Brawn and get an EE Skullduggery with 50 HP, Heavy fort in the green slot.
    2) Goggles: random gen Deadly X/XI of Resistance +9
    3) Ring2: Random gen +10/+11 Int with a Colorless slot AND dodge if you can get it.
    4) Boots: EE Goatskin boots with +8 Dex in the random slot
    5) Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (Exc Seeker +5, Dodge +8%, Attack +4, Threat -20%)
    6) Bracers: Greater convalescent of Superior Parrying


    With this setup, you are covering: Dodge 8%, 50 HP, +11 Damage, +9 Resistance, Globe in Ring2, +8 Dex in boots, +30% hamp, +4 saves from parrying.

    You are losing: the STR bonuses of Girdle, nothing from Goggles (get heavy fort in the GS and slot PRR +16 in Skullduggery), Ghostly (Ring of the Stalker Tier 3?), Striding 30% from boots (useless), 25% exc fort, +2 insight dex bracers (that you can slot like EVERYWHERE).

    I'm probably missing something, let me know. This is the best I could come up with at the moment.
    I am still working on equipment and the build, so changes are likely over the next few weeks. So far the only thing from your list I have and will definently use is the EE Goatskin boots. I am not too convinvinced about some of the rest yet, but certainly are good suggestions. I am currently still leveling up as a drow elf. So working out equipment will take a while. Certainly some of the things in the lev 25 list in the OP will be replaced by random loot gen stuff. I just havent decided which ones yet. My early thoughts are to keep at least the 2 rings, black armour set, and trinket already listed in the lev 25 gearset in the OP as those have important things on them that cant be replaced, is very difficult to shuffle, or can not be improved at this time. And then work in random loot among the rest that in effect maxs INT score and improves on at least DEX and CON as well as adds some of the new goodies such as deadly. I am not sure more dodge will be needed, it is already maxed at 25% with balizarde and a few shadow charges. Again I am still working on this and it will take me a while. I welcome your suggestions!

    As for dropping INT, that is something I will not do. 1 DC is more important to me. having 50 more HP's when you already have 700ish is not that big a deal, IMO. And qualifying for epic toughness will require sacrificing more INT. Perhaps losing 1 DC may be worth it for consume IF it is working properly now. This ability has been broken since it came out, but I havent tried it in a while. I will give it a go this life when I get to it again and see how it goes.
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  15. #395
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    I am still working on equipment and the build, so changes are likely over the next few weeks. So far the only thing from your list I have and will definently use is the EE Goatskin boots. I am not too convinvinced about some of the rest yet, but certainly are good suggestions. I am currently still leveling up as a drow elf. So working out equipment will take a while. Certainly some of the things in the lev 25 list in the OP will be replaced by random loot gen stuff. I just havent decided which ones yet. My early thoughts are to keep at least the 2 rings, black armour set, and trinket already listed in the lev 25 gearset in the OP as those have important things on them that cant be replaced, is very difficult to shuffle, or can not be improved at this time. And then work in random loot among the rest that in effect maxs INT score and improves on at least DEX and CON as well as adds some of the new goodies such as deadly. I am not sure more dodge will be needed, it is already maxed at 25% with balizarde and a few shadow charges. Again I am still working on this and it will take me a while. I welcome your suggestions!
    AFAIK +11 int is only available on the gloves of the master illusionist. Lootgen only goes up to +10. So those gloves are a must have if your maxing int.

    +3 insightful int is only available on the intricate field optics and the planar focus of subterfuge, afaik. Personally, I like the combination of planar focus of prowess and the avithoul ring. It does more overall damage then getting exc sneak5 from planar subterfuge and regular sneak5 somewhere else. Plus you get the PRR from prowess. That means the field optics become the only place for insightful int3.

    Those were some basic starting points for my gear set, and the black armor and helm of course.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  16. #396
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CThruTheEgo View Post
    AFAIK +11 int is only available on the gloves of the master illusionist. Lootgen only goes up to +10. So those gloves are a must have if your maxing int.

    +3 insightful int is only available on the intricate field optics and the planar focus of subterfuge, afaik. Personally, I like the combination of planar focus of prowess and the avithoul ring. It does more overall damage then getting exc sneak5 from planar subterfuge and regular sneak5 somewhere else. Plus you get the PRR from prowess. That means the field optics become the only place for insightful int3.

    Those were some basic starting points for my gear set, and the black armor and helm of course.
    +11 does not drop only on named items. You can get them on Random loot but they are rare.
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  17. #397
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    +11 does not drop only on named items. You can get them on Random loot but they are rare.
    I haven't seen any on the AH, nor heard of anyone getting one, but I'll keep my eyes open for them.
    Totally Bass Ackwards ~ int based/heavy armored pure tempest<>The Count of Monte Cristo ~ dps/CC/survivability focused pure swashbuckler<>Santa's Little Slayer ~ dragonmarked elf centered kensai<>Hassan's Assassin ~ 76 DC/dps/survivability focused human assassin<>Dubbell O'Seven ~ casting/ranged WF artificer

  18. #398
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I am almost back to lev 20 again and just wanted to comment on the nothing is hidden enhancement on the dark elf racial tree. I LOVE it. I am not sure it will be something to keep at higher levels, but for leveling up it is great. Just being able to walk around without having to search makes trap duties really fast. No more searching, just walk up to where a trap box is and it is revealed well before you get to it. Disarming traps for the bonus is much faster with this enhancement! I have been using it since lev 15 or so and wish I got it earlier.
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  19. #399
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Hit level 20 again. Lev 20 equipment as it is in the OP is completely outdated. I will update it when I figure out the best lev 20 set up.

    So Far it is:

    Epic Duelist Leathers -- gives me 25% dodge with a few shadow charges. I put heavy fort in the blue slot.
    Epic Ring of the Buccaneer -- False Life 30 in the blue slot.
    Assassin ring with +2 insightful con on it. You could put +2 dex on it instead, but I don't have trouble hitting anything, so I went with con.
    Assassin belt.
    Epic Charged Gauntlets -- its just too good. and sadly, the only piece of the old epic abashai set I am using this time around.
    Cannith Boots of Propulsion.
    Greensteel HP cloak.
    Epic Treasure Hunters Spyglass.
    Epic Golden Guile
    Deadly Helm of Resistance.
    Tinkers Goggles.
    Bracers of Seeking VI (mine has a yellow and a colorless!!) haven't slotted it yet.

    Weapons:

    EMG (of course!!!) + sacrificial dagger most of the time.

    I also like a pair of sacrificial daggers for dps when I am not assassinating, one that does dex damage and the other that does con damage. Mobs drop FAST with this very potent combo, you get level drain on a 15-20, crit 15-20 x3, self healing every hit, con+dex+str damage on every hit + 1-6 stat damage on a crit, very good dps. Hard to beat this, I think, until lev 23 and CitW weapons, and even then this combo may still be potent when debuffing in a hurry is important. Very nice with the new enhancements for daggers.

    All this with a 65 assassinate DC at 20 is very nice!

    Notes: No need for a CHA item at 20, as I am able to hit 100% heal scroll with the ususal self buffs.
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-15-2013 at 12:54 PM.
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

  20. #400
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    I am also trying out consume again. It seems to be working well at level 20 EE content so far.

    Shadow charges are still borked tho. I am only getting 3 when I should be getting 6 :/
    Last edited by Mellkor; 09-12-2013 at 10:43 AM.
    Cully Clonk, Culpepper Cleric, Culpeppa PvP spec Cleric, Azygoz Clogue
    Coyle evoker FvS, Ungoliant, Assassin, Angainor, WF Lord of Blades FvS
    Mellkor Wizard, Ferrari WF Sorc, ***Argonnessen*** ~~Ascent~~

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