Don't forget that the emg is a +10 weapon with high enough int. That alone makes up for 10 str over a GS weapon(for example) I am pretty sure he wouldn't attempt this w/o the emg, the to hit would be too hard.
Bhask the Unseen 21 Rog(tr 3), Tangoh 15 Barb(tr life 3),Domand d'Jorasco 18/2(tr4 )sorc/paly BF, Nilock 20(tr life 3), Domandi 20/8 1st life shuriken thrower.
I do not have to hit issues with this toon. There are only a few mobs in the game I cant hit on a 2 as equipped above (as long as I do not have aggro). When fighting those, after I use improved destruct or action boost, and/or divine power clickies, I can hit those on a 2 as well. So I am not missing 20% more than you, LOL, I am hitting the SAME as you. As for hitting when I have aggro, I am not too bad in that department, however I am not concerned at all about to hit when I have aggro. If I were I would be a fighter or barb.
As for no power attack, it would only add a very small percentage of total damage I am already doing. For this build (or any TWF build that relies heavily on sneak attack damage, IMO) it is not missed at all. For folks that really want it, it can easily be fit in.
Triumore - Triu - Broktar
The only mobs I have issues with in epic desert are the ones I cant assassinate anyway (undead and golums). All others are hittable on a 2.
I respect your viewpoint, but as someone who has done str based rogues (and done it well), I by far find int based a lot more useful and fun to play. Str based is concordant to the rogues inherent strengths, while int based fortifies and magnifies the rogues inherent strengths.
If you are having fun with your str based, have at it. If you are saying what you are saying without the experience of an int based, well, then shame on you!
I'm trying to get the most out of my 2nd life Halfling Rogue (finally back to 20) using the same ideas in this thread. The problem I'm finding with Halfling is that I can get my DEX much higher than STR much more easily, resulting in a higher tohit bonus if I go finesse. If it is viable I'd rather go STR.
I do not have EMG yet, if it matters.
So this is my proposed final build at 20. I plan to stay at 20 and play around in epics with some raiding here and there. My concerns are ToHit and Assassinate DC. Any thoughts and feedback are appreciated.
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male (20 Rogue) Hit Points: 264 Spell Points: 0 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 10 Reflex: 17 Will: 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 15 18 Dexterity 15 18 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 16 24 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 8 10 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 2 7 Bluff -1 13 Concentration 2 6 Diplomacy -1 3 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle -1 3 Heal -1 3 Hide 2 19 Intimidate -1 3 Jump 2 9 Listen -1 5 Move Silently 2 17 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 3 10 Search 3 10 Spot -1 3 Swim 2 7 Tumble n/a n/a Use Magic Device n/a n/a Level 1 (Rogue) Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 2 (Rogue) Level 3 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows Level 4 (Rogue) Ability Raise: INT Level 5 (Rogue) Level 6 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting Level 7 (Rogue) Level 8 (Rogue) Ability Raise: INT Level 9 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting Level 10 (Rogue) Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist Level 11 (Rogue) Level 12 (Rogue) Ability Raise: INT Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons Level 13 (Rogue) Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion Level 14 (Rogue) Level 15 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting Level 16 (Rogue) Ability Raise: INT Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery Level 17 (Rogue) Level 18 (Rogue) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 19 (Rogue) Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery Level 20 (Rogue) Ability Raise: STR Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV Enhancement: Halfling Guile I Enhancement: Halfling Guile II Enhancement: Halfling Guile III Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV Enhancement: Improved Hide I Enhancement: Improved Hide II Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
interesting build Mellkor but the biggest question I have is how you leveled your guy up to 20. did you go with a more typical strength build until you got the pair of EMG's and other gear and then LR? or does it work out okay to build a new character from scratch going with INT instead of STR?
thanks again for presenting alternate ideas, good food for thought whether people agree or disagree
I leveled up as an int based just to be a rebel. It worked out great! You can assassinate starting at level 12 (I think), so I would say do whatever until lev 12 and then spec/gear up for assassinates.
EMG's are certainly a big part of what makes this build work so well at end game, but until then, you will do just fine with high to hit weapons such as +5 greater banes, or greensteel starting at level 12 is also an excellent and viable choice, especially radiance II. Maximizing to hit is more important than maximizing damage on this build. That said, DPS will still be grreat, and not to far off a pure ****** build anyway.
Mellkor, passing to say that I'll Tr and use Helf in My Ture Scorpion Wraith build, I mean, I'll merge your build with mine and use my personal touch, I already have all gear and playing drow for more than 2 years I believe its time to upgrade him, I would like to thank you an Wax to encourage me to do it, not with words but with great ideas. But I really hope someday they give some love to Drows.
I think there is going to be a major shift in the game. The storm is coming, and I'm going to enjoy the ride . If anyone wants some Soul Gems: Elf, let me know.
But on topic, I don't think one has to worry TOO much about to-hit if you go INT with the rogue, especially if you go human or helf. If you start missing, pop an attack bonus boost. There are plenty of buffs and improve the to-hit as well, it never should be an issue. With his build, he's only losing out on 7 STR (+3-4 to-hit/dmg). Just craft an attack bonus +2/+4 until you get to level 20 and then equip your eMG. Problem solved.
Personally, I'm looking forward to TRing into INT based though I think I may wait until the new prestiges/epic levels come out.
I am getting ready to TR my toon into a rogue. I am just passing through to get my PL and I will TR at 20 into my next life. My goal with the rogue life is just to make sure I can find, survive and disable all the traps I encounter as well as being able to do adequate DPS.
I like the sound of this build and I was thinking of trying it for this life.
From your description it sounds like it can do what I need. Do you see any impediment to leveling this build to 20 if I am not planning on grinding the gear at the end? I already have a LitII and RadII khopeshs that I will use as well as plenty of gear from my previous lives.
with a starting stat of 14 in dex, you cannot get ITWF until 12 after your +3 tome kicks in at 11. that means your main attack feats are taken:
12 - ITWF
15 - improved crit
18 - GTWF
if you started with 15 DEX, then you should be able to go with
9 - ITWF
12 - improved crit
15 - GTWF
18 - Hamstring
at 18 or above, you could lesser reincarnate to 14 DEX and have all your feats. but would think for leveling from 12 to 18, the second sequence of feats would make it easier.
am I overlooking something?? I leveled up to 12 with more of a STR/DEX build and looking to switch over to give this a try but concerned about not having improved crit until 15 as that is a big increase in your damage output
thanks for any advice or suggestions
I don't remember exactly how I leveled him up in regards to feats. I think I did take improved crit late. I don't think it is much of an issue since (at least for me) I tend to blow thru levels 1-18 anyway, so taking that feat late didnt really matter much.
That said, I think your way would be better for folks who take their time to stop and smell the roses, so to speak.
Nice build, but i'll stay str based... Rad 2 is too important (and needs str or *shudders* dex to handle properly)
As for equipment:
I went for the litany...the +1 to stats is too good to miss out on (placed +2 int on the rad2)
epic illusionist robe (+7 int base item and the exceptional will save is also nice for a rog) - but beware!!! you'll need a cosmetic armor kit with the robe or you'll be sick after a game session
Epic stalker ring for the seeker and exceptional sneak attack
Epic hyena claw necklace for +7 con and toughness
38 str with ship buffs and 44DC on assassination (no yugo/store pots)
i recommend grabbing some fighter past lives for rogues...the to-hit really helps
Currently i'm also using the active fighter PL feat clicky in addition to Divine power clickies
Major fights are usually a bit messy and the str build allows for more flexibility. e.g. in eda i usually land a double kill on the assassination, but the the fight gets too chaotic to keep sneak attack up all the time. Using EMG and rad 2 with enough str/to-hit you don't get dependent on others to grab/keep the aggro but you can wade in, blind and then melee down with sneak attack. this is esp valuable if the improved deception on the EMG switches the aggro. Bluff is too slow, imo, in a fast and wild epic situation to work reliably (esp if the devil/orthon decides to teleport around while you bluff)
So, pure int rogues are nice one-trick ponies, but imo not well suited for high speed epic rushing groups.
My 2 c
I find this build and play-style performs very well in "high speed epic rushing groups" with a RAD II. Blind + paralyzed is a great combo when you can't avoid aggro. But I still easily get in plenty of assassinates in those type of quests. Having played str builds, I still think INT based is a much better way to go, for many reasons already discussed, IMO. If anything, STR based ****** builds deserve to be called "one trick ponies" much more than INT based. But thanks for your input.
Yes, he's int based, but he didn't dump str/con ... his 32 str measures up well to your 38, plus he's running eFighting Leathers for a +4 to hit bump.
He lands hits, they leave a mark ... this isn't one of those Assassin builds that can only click one-button every few seconds, he can scrap.
It isn't my cup of tea, but no one who's seen Ungoliant mow things down in an eDA thinks he's one-trick anything.
Last edited by SableShadow; 05-17-2012 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Despreately in need of sleep
Do rogues, get kukri proficiency for free? I can't see it listed on the Compendium.
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