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  1. #201
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Do you find Shadow Manipulation really that useful? I'm having huge doubts putting a point into there when I can get 100% dodge. Your thoughts?
    It almost never fails, even on epic elite. It also SEEMS to work better on some difficult to assassinate mobs than assassinate does, despite having the same DC (supposedly).

    I often use it when there is a crowd of mobs. I hit one of em with shadow manipulation, then assassinate the rest 2 at a time while they fight each other.

    I also use it as a fire-and-forget assassinate! Its awesome! I highly recommend this.

    Consume is also working a lot better, however it is still buggy as all hell. It works REALLY well on some things and seems to always fail on others, even on mobs that shadow manipulation works on all the time.
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
    ***Argonnessen***
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  2. #202
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellkor View Post
    Hit lev 15.

    I will edit the OP soon and put the feats I took in the proper order.
    ...

    I got a really nice lev 16 named light repeater out of one of the eveningstar flagging quests (not sure which one), it uses your int bonus for to hit. Really nice for this build along with use of flame bolts.
    Thanks for keeping the thread current!

    I think the xbow you referenced that used Int to hit that is good for Arties & this build is:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Doublecross_Bow

  3. #203
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Updated the OP to reflect the order of feats taken as I leveled up my second life on this build. I also updated some of the text and incorporated some comments from this thread into the OP.

    I do not expect this to change much until U17 and/or the enhancement changes.

    I am still experimenting with end-game equipment, so that MAY change. (will probably go red dragon robe, use only a 3-piece abashai set instead of the 5-piece, Bracers of the Twisting Shade epic elite version, con +8 necklace of +6 natural armour, switch current greensteel necklace item to cloak slot) and maybe some different TOD rings. That set up is very impressive as it adds +15 seeker! as well as other goodies, at the cost of being able to swap robes. I am still on the fence on it all tho. I really like the versatility of being able to use situationaly useful robes. I may also go with the epic dragon belt (it has most of the same stuff as the red dragon robes) at the cost of my CHA skills greensteel item (I can almost live without this at end-game), and retain use of robes.
    Last edited by Mellkor; 12-12-2012 at 12:15 PM.
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
    ***Argonnessen***
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  4. #204
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Thanks for keeping the thread current!

    I think the xbow you referenced that used Int to hit that is good for Arties & this build is:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Doublecross_Bow
    Yeah thats the one. It is great at lev 16. I am not sure it will be great in epic levels, but for now I still laugh when watching a mob get whacked hard by a volley and then falls asleep. Its a hoot.
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
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  5. #205
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    The new update is laid out in a much cleaner outline. Thank you.

    I too am enjoying this build quite a lot... though it's a pain in my arse trying to get a full five piece abishai set. But I am working on it.

  6. #206
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    Finally was able to get the scroll for the charged gauntlets. Haven't had time to use them yet, but I will this weekend. But the Epic Goggles of Time Sensing are sweet, and since I'm not level 25 yet, I'm also using the Epic Utility Vest for the OL and DD. I started the game late August, so I lack some of the Treasure Cove gear, which I'll get next year. But overall, I'm loving this build.

    The +8 int ring seems to be one of the hardest pieces to get, in my opinion, but I will continue to look for it.

    May I suggest for the other finger the Seal of Dun'Robar with stunning? Right now I have +10% Slicing one, so I'll try for the other version when I get to that point.

    What's your opinion of the Epic Elite version of Whisperchain? It seems pretty decent, though I do have the Greater Stability Robes of Destruction, I can't use them till 25.

    Overall, even though my gear varies a bit from yours... due to lack of parts, I'm still loving this build.

  7. #207
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Finally was able to get the scroll for the charged gauntlets. Haven't had time to use them yet, but I will this weekend. But the Epic Goggles of Time Sensing are sweet, and since I'm not level 25 yet, I'm also using the Epic Utility Vest for the OL and DD. I started the game late August, so I lack some of the Treasure Cove gear, which I'll get next year. But overall, I'm loving this build.

    The +8 int ring seems to be one of the hardest pieces to get, in my opinion, but I will continue to look for it.

    May I suggest for the other finger the Seal of Dun'Robar with stunning? Right now I have +10% Slicing one, so I'll try for the other version when I get to that point.

    What's your opinion of the Epic Elite version of Whisperchain? It seems pretty decent, though I do have the Greater Stability Robes of Destruction, I can't use them till 25.

    Overall, even though my gear varies a bit from yours... due to lack of parts, I'm still loving this build.
    Congrats on the scroll. Now for the fun part....slotting them!

    The ring is OK, but the stunning on it only helps if you have the stun feat.
    Whisperchain is a no go for me, it severely limits your max Dodge %. I cant live with anything less than max dodge (25%).
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
    ***Argonnessen***
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  8. #208
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    What server do you play on? And I didn't know about the stunning feat.

    Side note: had to trade 2 raid timer bypasses for that bloody scroll.

    And I'm slowly but surely slotting the epic gear, though they might vary from yours depending on my need and order I get them in, but the end results will be the same.

    I only have the seal for the cloak... that's one of the harder items to epic out.

  9. #209
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I'd honestly avoid slotting anything in the short term, except maybe a +1 INT on one of your eMGs. With the changes coming next udpate, I'd save up on the tokens.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  10. #210
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    Awe yes, I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.

    Also, since I don't have any CitW weapons yet... damn thing wont cough any of them up, I switch between an EMG and Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger or Epic Garos' Malice. This is while I wait till my second EMG shard pops up so I can make my second one.
    Last edited by hi_sa1nt; 12-13-2012 at 10:00 PM.

  11. #211
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Awe yes, I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.

    Also, since I don't have any CitW weapons yet... damn thing wont cough any of them up, I switch between an EMG and Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger or Epic Garos' Malice. This is while I wait till my second EMG shard pops up so I can make my second one.
    You may be better off w/ a clerics of a sunblade instead of Garos Malice. Work on those commendations - I got myself a baby Greater Good / Radiance one that is pretty fun.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  12. #212
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    Star of Day? Never thought of that.

    The Sun Blade is a level 6 item. I don't know if that was a miss type.

  13. #213
    Court Jester hi_sa1nt's Avatar
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    Awe. Well, I traded in 15 cleric commendations for the Star of Day... and I got:

    Brilliance
    Fiery Detonation
    Holy Burst

  14. #214
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hi_sa1nt View Post
    Awe. Well, I traded in 15 cleric commendations for the Star of Day... and I got:

    Brilliance
    Fiery Detonation
    Holy Burst
    The Star of Day is, in fact, a Sun Blade (just all grown up). So is Celestia, only it is even better. Check out the description of each three.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  15. #215
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    I'd honestly avoid slotting anything in the short term, except maybe a +1 INT on one of your eMGs. With the changes coming next udpate, I'd save up on the tokens.
    I second this. Of course they would change the whole system SHORTLY AFTER finally having finished slotting the whole 5-piece abashai set. Curse my luck!
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
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  16. #216
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    Hey all,

    I have tried out a dex rogue and while I do like my rogue I know later on i'll regret not being able to SA things as hard as I really can and with that said I decided to try out Mellkors build here.

    However, this is my first life and I haven't been playing DDO very long. I do have access to most adventure packs as I bought them awhile go when points were on sale and I do have access to the 32 point build. Lastly, I can invest in tomes as well for the build.

    With all that said.. Can anyone take a look at this before I really start investing in my character?

    Thanks!

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Dyborne D'vinn
    Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Elf Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 242
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 9
    Reflex: 21
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 18                   18
    Dexterity            14                 21                   22
    Constitution         12                 16                   16
    Intelligence         18                 24                   28
    Wisdom                8                 12                   12
    Charisma              8                 12                   12
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
    +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
    +4 Tome of Strength used at level 17
    +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
    +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 17
    +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 17
    +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 17
    +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 17
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               6                 29                   30
    Bluff                 3                 24                   25
    Concentration         1                  3                    4
    Diplomacy             3                 24                   25
    Disable Device        8                 32                   35
    Haggle               -1                 24                   25
    Heal                 -1                  1                    2
    Hide                  6                 29                   30
    Intimidate           -1                  1                    2
    Jump                  6                 12                   13
    Listen               -1                  3                    4
    Move Silently         6                 29                   30
    Open Lock             6                 29                   30
    Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
    Repair                4                  9                   10
    Search                8                 32                   36
    Spot                  3                 24                   25
    Swim                  2                 20                   21
    Tumble                6                 22                   23
    Use Magic Device      3                 24                   25
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Artificer
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
    Enhancement: Elven Perception I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Intelligence I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Precision
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Artificer Intelligence I
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking III
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking IV
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: INT
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
    Enhancement: Improved Search II

  17. #217
    Community Member domandi's Avatar
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    As a first lifer, I would drop int to 16, and use those points to raise dex to 18 and con to 14. this way with the +4 tomes, you only need 1 lvl up in dex for improved sneak attack, and you can just put the rest into int. In fact that way you end up with the same stats with a higher con for good measure.

    Everything else looks pretty standard for this type of build.
    Bhask the Unseen 21 Rog(tr 3), Tangoh 15 Barb(tr life 3),Domand d'Jorasco 18/2(tr4 )sorc/paly BF, Nilock 20(tr life 3), Domandi 20/8 1st life shuriken thrower.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by domandi View Post
    As a first lifer, I would drop int to 16, and use those points to raise dex to 18 and con to 14. this way with the +4 tomes, you only need 1 lvl up in dex for improved sneak attack, and you can just put the rest into int. In fact that way you end up with the same stats with a higher con for good measure.

    Everything else looks pretty standard for this type of build.
    Hmm, that seems like a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

  19. #219
    Founder Mellkor's Avatar
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    As a first lifer I would suggest (also) dropping int to 16 and putting the extras into con and str. Domandi's suggestion is also ok if you want to focus on dex to damage weapons, otherwise I would suggest forgetting about improved sneak attack and make str your secondary stat for reasons already discussed in detail in this thread. Have fun!
    Mellkor Wizard, Culpepper Cleric, Coyle Warlock, Anarion Mechanic Archer, Ungoliant, Assassin, Tulkas Astaldo Vanguard Pally,
    ***Argonnessen***
    ~~Ascent~~

  20. #220
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    I have decided to roll this build, thanks a bunch for the extensive detail and everyone's questions. I do have a couple, My current rogue was an old 13R,6ranger,1 monk or something from way back in the day.

    I plan on TRing 2 times to get the 36 build now that I have these expensive stones of change. I also have several +5 LR thingys so I am able to change my current rogue to another class that may be helpful. I just came back after 1.5 years and I do not recall why I bought all those plus 5's.

    Are there past live passives that go better with this type of build?

    The fighter gets +1 to att (the tactics dont seem to have much use in this build) (my old rogue would have trouble hitting sometimes unless sneak attacking)

    The rouge gets +1 damage to sneak att

    Pala 5% heal amp

    The monk gets +1 damage always (so i would think this is better than rogue)

    the arty gets +1 int skills and umd (is this necessary?)

    Unless I have something wrong above, what is your opinion on the best past life if you had a choice? Feel free to add one I ommitted.
    Thando, Aarag, Keallen, Kuthroat, Sureshott, Skullcrusher

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