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    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Arrow Lord of Blades - Complete Advanced Epic or otherwise Strategy guide and Video guide

    Got a lot of requests for help on this raid.. So here is a complete advanced strategy guide on how to beat the raid. This strategy works excellent on epic difficult and lower, tested and proven on several runs. It's very well optimized but there may be room for small improvements.

    Also did a full length video of the raid to show you exactly how it should go down:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xyIpCghUcI&hd=1
    (Recorded at 1080p, 60fps and max detail as always. Should default to 720p, Set it to 1080p for perfectly clear text.)

    This video is done on normal to keep it short and exciting, but aside from the fast and dangerous approach to the trash, the strategies used will work fine on Epic.

    Strategy guide:


    Party make up:

    This raid is pretty much entirely combat, with a good variety of enemies, so having a strong mix of many classes is ideal.
    The Tank:
    By far the most important player in this raid will be your main tank, without a experienced and well geared tank you will a very hard time. Ideal tanks by far are Stalwart Defenders with very high (150%+) healing amp and excellent threat generation ability. But as you can see in the video, Barbarians can do an excellent job as well. As can paladins, or hell as of U12, even monks.. Ideally just the most experienced player that has the stats to qualify should perform this role.
    Note on Epic:
    Given the extreme difficulty on Epic, it's HIGHLY recommended to use a Stalwart Defender for this role. It will be doable without one, but it can make a huge difference given there strong damage resistance (25% with improved mastery) and hitpoints.
    The 2ndary/backup tank:
    Due to the design of the touch of mournlands debuff, and difficulty of the raid, its usually* CRITICAL to have a 2ndary tank that's hopefully just as powerful as the first. His job will be to tank while the main tank recovers from the mournlands wounds, as well as during emergencies should your main-tank die. He will also serve as one of the Hound tanks at the end. On lower difficulties he may not need to do much tanking at all, as the mournlands debuff has a low chance to proc, but it's still wise to always assign one in case mistakes happen and the maintain goes down.
    *Usually: It's possible to simply shield block and wait out the debuff.. However this strategy obvious greatly increases resource costs as it's a long debuff (80 seconds) and buffs are ticking. Then the fact if your maintain gets killed, no backups can easily lead to wipe.. Always assign a backup, even if he's not ideal.
    Healing:
    Once the tanking is covered, you need players to keep said tanks alive. Due to the extreme length and difficulty of the raid, and the fact its 99% single target healing, the best raid healers here are actaully by far Artificers and Bards with scroll mastery. They can and should heal scroll for 300-550+ depending on the tanks healing amp. This also frees up clerics and favored souls to focus on mass heals during cometfalls/blade barriers, and any emergency raise deads/buffs players may need.
    Trash management:
    On normal difficulty, most any decent player of any class can clear the trash.. On epic you REALLY will need a powerful arcane to dispatch them quickly. Be it with power word kill, fingers of deaths, or powerful polar rays, Arcanes are ideal as Artficiers are deadly at close range on higher difficulties.
    Debuffs:
    At a bare minimum I highly recommend you keep cloudkill up at all times, so having someone with that is important. Additional debuffs such as improved sunder, condemnation and crushing despair are all very useful as well, but as critical as the cloudkill. Cloudkill means 20% less hits, and thus 20% less mournlands debuffs on your tank, which can make all the difference.
    Buffs
    Clr/Fvs: will be wanted to deathward, circle and resistances.
    Bards: are very useful for their songs, the enemies here have quite a high armor class and a lot of hitpoints, bards will make this raid go much faster and smoother.
    Artificers: They can enhance your weapons to bypass DR, to allow things like a Lit2 to break his DR (Good+Adamantine), as well as casting 2 very powerful devensive buffs on the tank: Radiant Shield and Positive energy. You can see these buffs in action in the video.

    So set up a nice well balanced party of strong tanks, strong DPS, great healing and at least 1 proficient arcane. Bards and artificers are also extremely useful as you can see in the video.

    The Strategy:

    Initial clearing:
    On normal and hard in a strong group you can just crush the trash generally.. On elite/epic, you should absolutely NOT underestimate it, I've seen countless deaths from the trash on epic that can alwasy be avoided. So a few basic mmo rules on trahs should be observed:
    - Let the tank, tank.. Yes, even the trash should be tanked on epic. Let the tank intim and gather it, and only after is safe to do so should the DPS proceed in.
    - Let the arcanes and other ranged clear the artificers - They are EXTREMELY devastating on epic and can deal upwards of 500 damage in a second, thus at no point what so ever should any dps ever get close to them, they will invariably die. Insta kill them, or if taht fails, CAREFULLY use ottos irresistable and nuke them down.
    - Be vigilant on keeping the tank alive, but dont spend much resources. There is no shrine on epic, so you REALLY have to be careful on your sp usage, and use healing scroll as much as possible. If an artificer knocks down the tank a quick emergency ful heal may be necessary, but otherwise no SP should be used on healing if done correctly.

    Buffing for Boss:
    Buff up at the shrine on normal or hard, then shrine for full sp.. On epic well there is none, so you can just buff up at the platform past the water so your ready to engage when done.
    Recommended long individual buffs:
    - Electric and Fire on all (LoB casts Tactical Detonation, Power of the forge causes electric dmg, as do the hounds)
    - FoM on all (Hound grease WILL kill you, never get close to them without it, always recast this after any raise deads!)
    - True Sight for those who request (Assasins love to cast blur and displacement.. Negate that and destroy them)
    - GH on all (Cometfall will hit everyone as its targeted randomly, save against it!)
    - If you have an Arti or adamantine scrolls: Use as appropriate. DR is Adamantine + Good.. Break the DR!

    For epic difficulty preferable extend all of these buffs, its quite a long encounter.

    Mass buffs after shrine in the Creation forge (AKA Boss Arena):
    -Mass Deathward (randomly targets necrotic ray and likes to cast symbols)
    -Cricle against evil (increases saves)
    -Bards songs

    Assign the roles:
    You'll need several key roles for this strategy:
    - Maintank and 2ndary tank as I talked about.
    - Power of the Forge takers - You'll need to assign 3. While the buff can be useful for everyone, I believe its best for DPS, and sometimes the maintank* - if hes fast moving and skilled enough to get it. While experienced players should generally do this, players new to the raid can do this as long as you explain carefully what needs to be done.
    -- Maintank Note: If your maintain is a slower moving class like a Stalwart Defender or Siberys Paladin, he may wish to forego this as it can take a bit long to get it with reduce movement speed. Barbarians, Rangers and monks are fairly ideal as they can sprint in qickly to acquire it and return to the tanking position easily as seen in the video.
    - Main burst healer: Especially important on epic to conserve resource costs is to assign your strongest healer to handle the tank burst healing during whirlwinds or other specials.. This way you can ensure hte other heals know to save SP and use mainly scrolls, to cut down on pot costs.
    - Main party healer: One will need to focus on mass healing after a cometfall or blade barrier for the DPS. Due to the length of the spell, you should assign this task and be sure only 1 player does it.
    - Main resurrecter/rebuffer: Again avoid duplication, set 1 person to do this. Bards work well for this task as they have many nice buffs like FoM and songs to give freshly raised comrades.
    - Hound Kiter: This is the most critical role next to tanking.. Be sure to have a VERY skilled, fast, self-sufficient player do this. Perfably an experienced one, but its not that difficult a task..
    Ideal candidates are :
    Arcane archers who can heal scrol (as they will lose nothing by doing it, they can DPS the boss or pillars while kiting without major risk
    Wizard/Sorc - While they can do it quite well keep in mind the one assigned to debuffing tasks should not do this, as the hounds should never get close to the boss, and cloudkill has a short range.
    Favored soul - Very ideal as its quite easy to self heal thru rain on one, but they are often needed near the tank for condemnation or healing, keep this in mind.
    Cleric - Perhaps even more ideal as they aren't needed nearby for condemnation
    Any class that can self heal and has a good reflex save - One of the main ways the kiter often dies (which causes major issues) is from cometfall, so a good reflex save helps.

    Backup Kiter - A strong strategy includes backups and redundancy for everything. As skilled and powerful as one player is, they can alawys roll a 1, lose connection or crash.. So assign back ups whereever possible.

    On to the raid strategy:

    Phase One: Initial Special Abilities (100% to 75% Health)

    At it's core this is basic tank and destroy raid.. But there are a LOT of complexities involved that need to be understood to suceed. I'll go over each special mechanic:

    Tanking Position:
    North end, where you begin. View the video for the exact ideal location. The reason for this is because of the next spot:
    Dog positioning:
    South end, far from the start. This is because they have a AOE buff that increases all mobs - including the bosses resistance to all damage by 25%, and it stacks for up to -50% penatlty. Negate this by kiting them in a small areas to the south far from the LoB. Again review the video for where they should be.

    Power of the Forge - USE IT! (Advanced strategy)
    A common mistake many pug groups make is to quickly destroy all the pillars, and thus the power. The power of the forge is a major benefit to us if we use it to our advantage, and for an advanced epic strategy, imo its a ulra important thing to have to reduce resource costs and speed up the raid. The huge thing is the +25% damage output it provides, as well as the speed incrases. It's a very major DPS buff that can and will aid you greatly. So USE IT, Keep it alive!. It's NOT nteccesary to kill the initial pillars. You actually only have to kill the ones that spawn at the end to complete the raid. I recommend you keep the north two bottoms alive, as we do in the video. Why two? Redundancy, always have a backup incase someone gets confused and accidently kills a pillar.

    How it works:
    -Center area glows blue - Power is CHARGING - Get ready! You generally shouldn't actually go in tho, as it hurts you! (10d10 electric dmg every 2 sec)
    -Center area then glows yellow - Power is available - TAKE IT ASAP! You only have about 2-4 seconds to get it before the Lord of Blades takes it for himself. Ideally you have 3 players assigned, and the ones whos turn it is, is alreayd there and has it.. If for any reasons he is incapacitated or out or range.. Someone else get it, no matter what just do not let the LoB get the power!

    How the buff works:
    You get a blue icon - thats it, it will not show a timer, as it's duration is random. It lasts between 25 to 80 seconds from my experience. You will also get a debuff call "Overcharged" which lasts 120 seconds .. It's the black icon. As long as you have this debuff, you may not get another power.. If you try, you will get mind probed (a very long duration stun that cannot be removed).
    Since the power returns also at a random rate (Between 20-40 seconds), you will thus need a minimum of 3 players to be able to continuously get it, and occasionally may need a fourth.
    (Advanced strategy): This does take a bit of understanding of the raid and player skill to perform accurately.. And mistakes can cause serious problems, thus if your group is not confident in their abilities to understand and get the buff, it may be easier to simply destroy all the pillars, and thus end the power. I'd only recommend this on normal difficulty in a pug group that you otherwise dont feel will be moving on to harder difficulties later. In a guild group, you should leave it up to practice getting it even if its not required.

    Mighty Blow Stun + Backspin + Slam:
    This triple attack special is very dangerous, and is what seperates the skilled tanks from the not so skilled. It can and should be blocked. It has a VERY SHORT audio cue, kind of like the sound of a gear griding fast - review the video and turn your sound up loud to listen for it. It can't be blocked off the visual cue, thats like 200ms - only military androids can react taht fast.. But the audio cue is about 900-1200ms , which you can react to.
    If it's blocked, nothing will happen, continue DPS.
    If it's not blocked - You will be stuned, Call out on a voice immediately!
    Generally ill say DPS out.. But really the DPS should not necessary get out, so much as they should flank on the side.. The backspin is kind of like a bolt-like AOE, it goes straight back quite a distance, but does not hit the side.. Review the video and watch what Wrathdancer does to know the ideal strategy.. However this is a more advanced, more difficult strategy so only do this if you confident you wont pull agro, as obviously the tank cant build threat while stunned.

    Note on buffs: Grasp of the Earthdragon (A light monk special) can negate the stuns. This can be useful if your tank is not blocking stuns well. However if your tank is trying to learn how to bllock on just normal/hard, you may wish to not use it, so he can learn the tell for later runs on higher settings which this buff may not be available. So use it if available, but don't rely on it.
    He can also miss his stun attack roll, cloudkill is useful for this.

    This is the only special he has during phase 1 (100-75% health)

    Phase Two: New Special Abilities (75% to 40% Health)
    At this point he gains 2 more specials and also returns his hound:
    Re-establish agro as its reset now, then shield block as the hounds will reset in the next 5-15 seconds. They will return to the kiter automatiicaly as long as you dont hit them, the threat is maintained even tho they heal to full.

    New specials:

    Neo/Superman Leap: This ability allows him to escape combat and perform a massive leap to the ceiling of the Forge. This ability will also reset his aggro list. Once he drops down he will perform either of these specials:
    -Pouncing Strike: He will target 1 random party member and lead down slamming his Trident into their body, dealing massive damage enough to outright kill many party members. (~250-500 damage depending on difficulty/or if he has power of the forge)
    -Powerful Double Charge': If he instead lands on the very outside edge of the arena.. He will perform a powerful double charge. This one isn't too bad as it simply knocks down players that get in his way, and deals moderate damage. It does show a saving throw, but even rolling a 20 generally won't negate it. Simply dodge it or shield block to avoid some damage.

    Tank role during this:
    -Get a thrower out ASAP (Ideally +5 holy burst adamantine of GCB crafted one).
    -Remove your tower shield (-2 to hit HURTS), ideally you have a weapon set with a shield and no shield. You can offhand a seeker +10 if your really pro.
    -Toss at him, auto attack helps you determine positioning though personally I dont use it.. You may wish to.
    -If he is charging you should have no trouble getting him before he complets it. If he is pouncing.. Call out the name of the person with agro, and BURSt heal that player, do not let him die, the tank will take 2-4 throws to re-establish.

    Non-tank role:
    The MOMENT you see him crouch down:
    -STOP DPS
    -Spread out
    -Get a sheld in your hand and block and face him, no matter what. The agro is random so until you are 110% sure its not you, block.
    -AT ALL COSTS DO NOT RUN FROM THE BOSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ** I can't stress this enough. Every run I do someone always trys to run from him. Just don't. Please. It's an extremely bad move for several reasons:
    -Tank will miss his throws and take longer to get him off you.
    -You will probably get a mournlands debuff - This not only damages your maximum hp and generally gets you killed, but it also causes your spells to gain a huge spell failure chance! And this applies to ALL spells, even divines and heal scrolls. So if your a healer and you do this, you could very well fail your heals and let the tank die due to it.
    -He may immediately try to stun you - he has NO cooldown on his specials, blocking prevents the stun.
    -You may get someone else cleaved in the process
    -He will chain you eventually.. He has a very smart AI and automatically chains anyone trying to run. Get chains in a bad place and your dead, and probably others.

    I mean yea maybe if over 75% of the party is dead and theres no one to heal you, you should run.. But in 99 out of 100 times its never the right choice.

    Whirlwind:
    Perhaps his most devastating special. This attack has very short tell - he will swing his weapon around in circle above his head as a sort of wind up. The attack itself is a very devastating AOE attack so if are flanking and don't have agro, move away quickly! It deals ~75-260 damage per hit (Depending on difficulty/power of the forge), and hits EXTREMELY fast, every ~150 milliseconds and goes on for several seconds.) Each hit will also hit all nearby players in a 360 degree arc, and cause a powerful knockback with no save.

    If your the tank: Recommended Strategy is to jump/get knocked directly into the water - Ideally you are tanking him nearby the water. If you are too far away just jump straight up - there by getting knocked quite far into the plasma water and hope you can survive that. Jumping helps even if you are far away as the knockback distance is greatly amplified if your airborn, especially with featherfall on. Be warned though - you can easily lose his agro if you jump into the water too soon after seeing the tell, which can result in the whirlwind killing several of your party members.
    Ideally though, you are standing very near the water and can simply drop in, avoiding any hits. No matter how well you position him this won't always be the case however, as he can chain or knock you down just before he does it, so react approrpriately.

    The water also deals heavy initial damage plus moderate damage over time so executing this strategy and surviving is very difficult, especially on the higher difficulties.
    This is very hard to perform and time accurately, so review the video of my actions and try to replicate them for the best success rate against this attack.

    Phase Three: The Final Devastating Special Ability (40% to 5% Health)

    Return my Hounds again: He will once again re-summon his hounds to full health. He also gains one new special:
    Rain of Blades: In this phase he gains one final, very devastating special attack. This one has an easy tell, he will crouch down and small blades will fly out of his back, then a couple of seconds later the special attack will hit. It deals massive damage over time, it's similar to the Black Abbot' Inferno in the it engulfs the entire platform except 1 small area. Though the damage is quite survivable by high hp players with good healing - thus the tank should stay out to avoid having the party get cleaved by the lord of blades in the center. Deals slashing damage. Reflex save for half, but for most characters even half damage will be enough to kill them if they remain in it too long. There is one safe area: The exact center of the platform. The tank and the dog kiter should not enter the center.
    Again review the video for some tips on what to do or not do during this.

    Phase Four: Reinforcements! (5% Health tell the Quori ambush)
    The Hounds' Last Assault: At this point he will return his hounds yet again (if they are dead) for a final assault. Killing the hounds at this point completely disintegrates their corpses, preventing further resurrection. It is recommended to kill them during this phase. However on Epic difficulty keep in mind they hit VERY hard, so have the maintank tank one, and the offtank intim ONE (and only one) away. If you are confident in 1 players abilities to break enchant (TIP: Scrolls work, there is no CL check) the spit fast, you can stay in and keep DPS up too, highly recommended as long as its just 1 hound. If its 2 hounds, you cant always break 2 spits, so this is too risky imo.. Seperate them first.

    Evade and Summon Reinforcements:
    At this point he will continuously perform his Neo/Superman leap to avoid taking serious injury (Occasionally doing a single charge, pounce attack or spell.) and instead he will keep you busy by summoning several waves of Bladesworn Warforged reinforments.

    TIP: He can only perform his superman leap + charge combo on the 4 cardinal Directions: Directly North, East, Sout and west.. Avoid standing on those areas or death will be imminant.

    The trash waves include:
    ~20-25 Bladesworn Assassins (spawning a small amount in several waves).. On normal you can just slay all these quick.. On epic it's somewhat recommend to kill about half of them, then use the other half as mana batteries to regain some SP for the final phase, tho imo spending much time here isn't really neccesary,
    ~4-6 Bladesworn Artificers (spawning a small amount in several waves, generally its 1-2 per wave, 3 waves).. You MUST slay these VERY FAST on epic difficulty or they will wipe you raid. Assign your strongest arcanes and call out their locations to aid their targeting. Their spawn points are static, so experience can help here in eliminating them quickly.

    Once all these waves are defeated they will not respawn and the final phase will be triggered.

    Final Phase and How to complete the raid (5% to completion)

    A short time after this phase begins a portal will appear and dozens of Quori monsters will continuously spawn and attack you.

    At this point you can either choose to continue to attack the Lord of Blades and knock him down. But he cannot be defeated, as the Power of the Forge will be back and prevent him from dying (The amount of health he gets back varies with difficulty). You can choose to "Mark" him. EG - Knock him down him several times to complete an optional, or simply go for completion by destroying the newly attackable pillars. Once you destroy the pillars, the raid will be complete and he will stop attacking you, regardless of his current health.

    If you mark him three times you'll have no choice but to destroy the pillars as the DM will inform you of this and a new required objective will appear. Do so quickly before you are overwhelmed by the Quori invaders.

    Roles during this phase will shift as you need:
    Maintank as always - Hold the boss in a safe area and block if you are not doing the optional.
    Trash tank/kiter - This role is CRITICAL and very challenging on the higher difficulties.. This is where probably dozens of Epic attempts have failed. Follow my strategy and I guarentee you will get thru this part:

    First off - Who is the ideal candidate?
    A common thought on this is the caster (wiz/sor) should do this. IMO this is rather incorrect. Casters (wiz/sor) are inherantly squishy and often have poor saves.. They do not make for strong trash tanks/kiters. Really the person ideal for this role isn't dependant on class, but more so other factors:
    What does make for a strong trash tank/kiter:
    - Good hitpoints: While it can be done with only a moderate amount, the more the better.
    - Good fortitude save: Saving against flesh to stone is critical if your not a warforged.
    - Good everything saves: There is a ton of other ways they can incap you including paratic touch (willsave), tactical detonation (reflex) among others, good saving throwers are critical.
    - Warforged Race: One huge cause of wipes here is flesh to stone.. Warforged are simply immune.
    - Fast movement speed: The quori move FAST. You need to move faster, the faster you move, the less spells will hit you and thus the longer you can go without issue,
    - Strong equipment: There are a few key items that few players know of, that can and will make this succeed every time:
    A) Pale Lavender Ion stone - This absorbs pretty much every spell the Mindstealers will toss at you. Only issue is it can be burnt up fast, generally a lot faster then the pillars can be destroyed. So you'll need additional insurances:
    B) Shield of Reflecting - If your ideal/chosne trash tank is not a waforged, this item can save the day. It absorbs flesh to stone, and can make or break your raid. GET IT!
    C) Battered Phiarlan Shield - If you are a WF, and thus immune to F2P, Here is your shield of choice. This baby absorbs power word stun, and your not immune to that. This can make all the difference. Get one, or several as they love to spam power word stun.

    In addition: The trash kiter is so critical to this you should give him a dedicated healer - and even a Divine intervention if its available. If he goes down, your raid can, and likely will end right there. Keep him alive AT ALL COSTS!

    It's also important for him to have voice.. So if his ion stone/shield runs out (or he doesnt have one), he can call the moment he is helpless, paralyzed, stunned or stoned, and you can have all availlable players rush to remedy it. On epic you will generally only have a few seconds to react (if that, depends on his HP/healing) and remedy him, be vigiliant and be ready.
    How to remedy devastating effects:
    -Helpless from charisma damage: Restoration. Heal can also work if the person available to help you otherwise doesnt have restore spell/scrolls. However ideally dont rely on heal, as you could very well get a healin curse the moment they try to heal you, and heal does not seem to remove stat dmg if its blocked by the curse.. Restore will remove the damage regardless of curses.
    -Stun: Heal removes stun. Keep in mind he might be cursed as well tho, as the Reavers curse.. So remove curse and heal ASAP!
    -Stoned: Scepter of the Fleshweaver If your serious about beating ths on epic, you own one of these. Yea can scroll this too, but scrolls are NOT reliable. You can and invariable will fail your concentration chekc.. Clickies never fail. Everytime someone saves the raid by using this to unstone someone, a legend is born. It wont happen often, but if you can do it, its pretty damn awesome. It requires extremely fast reaction time.
    -Paralyzed by a Mind Stealers melee attack (idylic touch, will save): I don't believe this is any way to remedy this... Just heal them through it as best you can. (If you know a way to remedy this, let me know - tested remove curse, remove paralysys and other, none worked)

    Ideally tho, you have the DPS on the pillars and they go down faster then your tanks ion stone/shield gets drained.

    If not:
    As i've often said: Redundancy. Assign a back up trash tank to kite, be sure he has some threat built up on the trash so he has the agro quickly should the main go down.

    Also: Let the trash tank have power of the forge, that extra speed and DR can save him.

    Hopefully this guide helps you guys crush this raid.

    Additional Reading:
    http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Lord_of_Blades - main wiki entry, covers the basics.
    http://ddowiki.com/page/Lord_of_Blades - Boss entry, i contributed most of this article (some parts were improved by other wiki editors), contains mainly his stats and some of the same information i've present here.
    Last edited by Shade; 01-11-2012 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Versions 1.2, phases clarified and given names

  2. #2
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    ok strategy guide complete, enjoy.

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    Great video and guide, thanks very much for providing it. One thing that could be added is that for any attack that has a tell that people should watch out for you could add a URL for the exact time it occurs so people wanting to review the cues could get there quickly.

    For example:

    Whirlwind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...pCghUcI#t=526s

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    Thanks for the guide - very informative.

    Minor comment - you don't include rogues in the list of toons with scroll mastery. Do you feel it's best for them to not be a scroll healer in this raid?

  5. #5
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandomKeypress View Post
    Thanks for the guide - very informative.

    Minor comment - you don't include rogues in the list of toons with scroll mastery. Do you feel it's best for them to not be a scroll healer in this raid?
    I just listed the best scroll healers - bard and artificer. They both get signficiantly higher scroll mastery % at rank IV then a rogue does.

    Rogues are a bit weaker then some classes here overall, they serve as good dps, but their lower hp can be an issue on epic.. They could be better if they let wrack work on purple named.
    Last edited by Shade; 11-12-2011 at 09:28 PM.

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    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    I just listed the best scroll healers - bard and artificer. They both get signficiantly higher scroll mastery % at rank IV then a rogue does.

    Rogues are a bit weaker then some classes here overall, they serve as good dps, but their lower hp can be an issue on epic.. They could be better if they let wrack work on purple named.
    I just checked and Bard and Rogue now receive identical % at IV -- 75%. Stealth update(?) as I don't recall ever seeing that listed for rogue before. Or maybe it was there all along and I never noticed.

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    Community Member deahamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrite View Post
    I just checked and Bard and Rogue now receive identical % at IV -- 75%. Stealth update(?) as I don't recall ever seeing that listed for rogue before. Or maybe it was there all along and I never noticed.
    Not sure if anyone mentioned, I haven't finished the entire thread yet.

    Artificers get bonuses to scrolls at level-ups. No idea about bards. Someone did the math once and artificers heal the most out of a scroll. That's why artificers are top choice for scroll healing. Not all have the CHA and UMD score to do it, but if they got their UMD high enough and took scroll mastery IV, they're the best at it.
    Toons on Orien:
    Daemonav Atreides: WF artificer (TR 2/14)////Irullan Atreides: human FvS (TR 2/?!?)////Lorrellei Atreides: human ice/acid sorcerer////Aliademon Atreides: elf PM necro/enchant wizzie (TR 2/8)

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    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Been on a 0 resource 50 min epic run where we did not use this forge buff you keep harping about. Running, and stopping fighting in order to get a buff decreases dps.

    A second big time tank is not essential even on epic but it does help lessen the resources. I have tanked by myself all the way to the end on epic. Just block when your hp gets to 550 hp and then when the debuff goes away dps when you just have one tank..

    Regarding your kiter at end theory. Still testing something out but thinking a paladin tank is probably best with the mega saves and ease to heal. Theory is lower your intimidate to +60 then run around intimidate such that you can not get lord of blades but can get all the trash. Super easy to heal..
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 11-12-2011 at 02:14 PM.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #9
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Been on a 0 resource 50 min epic run where we did not use this forge buff you keep harping about. Running, and stopping fighting in order to get a buff decreases dps.
    Utterly illogical.

    the whole 2 seconds it takes of lost dps is not worth +25% dmg and +~10% attack speed for as much as 80 seconds?
    Give me a break norg. Anyone with some basic logic can get why thats false.

    While i trust your guild is very strong and occasionally does fast and effective runs, I don't think you have the right mindset about learning or applying strategy on new raids, you have a few strong stategic players in your guild that show you the way - most of which learned it from me FYI. Show some respect and humilty for once and learn from those who do and you could be doing 40 min runs with the players you have.

    This is a proven epic strategy we've used on several very smooth runs, and you can see for yourself how well it works on the normal 20min run.

    Yes power of the forge use is a more advanced, and more difficult strategy, but given the caliber of player required to beat epic, I think its utterly ineffecient to not make use of it. Perhaps on normal with inexperienced players destruction may be in order.. not in an experienced group. There's also the fact its an intended mechanic, just review the pax videos from fernando, he talks a lot about the players using it, as we should.

    And while I believe the strategy I use and outline here is extremely well optimized given i've somewhere near 60 completions now, I feel there is still room for minor improvements even to mine, it is quite a complex raid. Your idea isn't one of them.
    Last edited by Shade; 11-12-2011 at 09:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member KyrzaBladedancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Utterly illogical.

    the whole 2 seconds it takes of lost dps is not worth +25% dmg and +~10% attack speed for as much as 80 seconds?
    Give me a break norg. Anyone with some basic logic can get why thats false.

    While i trust your guild is very strong and occasionally does fast and effective runs, I don't think you have the right mindset about learning or applying strategy on new raids, you have a few strong stategic players in your guild that show you the way - most of which learned it from me FYI. Show some respect and humilty for once and learn from those who do and you could be doing 40 min runs with the players you have.

    This is a proven epic strategy we've used on several very smooth runs, and you can see for yourself how well it works on the normal 20min run.

    Yes power of the forge use is a more advanced, and more difficult strategy, but given the caliber of player required to beat epic, I think its utterly ineffecient to not make use of it. Perhaps on normal with inexperienced players destruction may be in order.. not in an experienced group. There's also the fact its an intended mechanic, just review the pax videos from fernando, he talks a lot about the players using it, as we should.

    And while I believe the strategy I use and outline here is extremely well optimized given i've somewhere near 60 completions now, I feel there is still room for minor improvements even to mine, it is quite a complex raid. Your idea isn't one of them.
    So many gems in this post it's hilarious. First, anyone who has grabbed the buff more than twice knows it lasts 50 seconds, no more no less. Second, hypocrisy much? Third, when has Fernando ever been right about game mechanics? I'm still waiting on my Paralyzing Bastard sword. There are many more errors in your guide that anyone who pays attention during the raid would see besides the Forge buff, and if you wish I'll write each one of them down seeing as people will read this guide and make mistakes because of them.

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    Life is not fair, get over it now.

  11. #11
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyrzaBladedancer View Post
    anyone who has grabbed the buff more than twice knows it lasts 50 seconds, no more no less.
    Yet no one i've asked in my 50+ runs have known that..

    Whats funny? You replied to a video strategy guide so confidenly with false info, that you could of simply verified by viewing the video yourself..

    Power of the forge:
    1st one at: 7:24
    End: 8:18
    Duration: 54 seconds

    Power 2:
    Start: 9:26
    End: 10:15
    Duration: 49 seconds

    Power 3:
    Start: 11:38
    End: 12:30
    Duration: 52 seconds

    The duration is very clearly random. 50sec may be a good average, and I may add that info to the guide, but that it can end earlier or later.

    Far as your other callous remark, by all means attempt to report more false information and i'll verify it. Like I said, there could be some improvements to the strategy. The way you present your advice certainly has room for improvement. Laughing at players is not only against the code of conduct, but simply not inducive for such discussion.

  12. #12
    Community Member KyrzaBladedancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Yet no one i've asked in my 50+ runs have known that..

    Whats funny? You replied to a video strategy guide so confidenly with false info, that you could of simply verified by viewing the video yourself..

    Power of the forge:
    1st one at: 7:24
    End: 8:18
    Duration: 54 seconds

    Power 2:
    Start: 9:26
    End: 10:15
    Duration: 49 seconds

    Power 3:
    Start: 11:38
    End: 12:30
    Duration: 52 seconds

    The duration is very clearly random. 50sec may be a good average, and I may add that info to the guide, but that it can end earlier or later.

    Far as your other callous remark, by all means attempt to report more false information and i'll verify it. Like I said, there could be some improvements to the strategy. The way you present your advice certainly has room for improvement. Laughing at players is not only against the code of conduct, but simply not inducive for such discussion.
    Curious, because every single time I've stopped floating at exactly 1:10 left on the my overcharge. Considering floating is part of the buff... but whatever.

    1. A barb works on Normal and Hard, but on Epic? You will get your bum handed to you in tiny little pieces, or the healers will drink 50+ pots just to keep you up. Not to mention anything with less than 800 will spend half his time getting rid of Mournlands. It doesn't take as much as many people think to tank epic but don't try and make it out to be just as easy to tank as normal.

    2. Secondary tank is not necessary at all, once your tank hits about 650 just shield block for 80 seconds, even on Epic you shouldn't need to do this more than 4 times, this prevents people who shouldn't be tanking on Epic trying to tank.

    3. Having someone other than a caster kite just makes the caster nearly useless and if you can't get a cloudkill off without the dogs buffing LoB try casting it at max range on a sideways tilt.

    4. Having the main tank grab the Forge buff not only is stupid, it will end up getting your raid wiped eventually. Keeping the Forge active is a valid tactic, but opens you up to many many more errors that will end up Wiping the raid or costing significant amounts of time/ resources.

    5. The different phases are at 75% 40% and about 5% and he only calls his hounds back 3 times. You do not need to reaggro the dogs as they still have their aggro tables when called, all doing more damage to them does it make it harder to pull them off the kiter.

    6. There is plenty of time to spread out once the LoB is actually gone, don't waste precious time by running away as soon as he jumps.

    7. Getting hit by Whirlwind EVER is just plain dumb, Jumping while getting hit even more so. Getting launched to the other side of the room then skipping across the water 2-3 times while out of range of the healers will kill you. Just walk backwards into the water till he finishes. Also the water does the same amount of damage on Normal as it does on Epic.

    8. Rain if done properly will never deal more than 400 points of damage, and since the kiter really shouldn't be getting hit much if at all by the dogs, he should only need 1 scroll and then heal himself the rest of the way. The center should also be vacated during the last tic of Rain as a Cometfall to the center has great potential to cause a wipe.

    9. During the Trash phase there are 3 sets of Assassins/Artificer, there may be a forth set of just Assassins or the third is a double clutch but usually too engaged to watch. 4 Assassins and a single Artificer each time, nowhere near 25 and 6 you claim. The Artificer always drops in the same spot so it is very easy to control him. The Kiter should also invis himself during this part as the Assassin will cripple the hell out of you.

    10. Mighty Blow, the effect that hits you when you get stunned/landed on/charged will do about 300 on normal and slightly more than 400 on Epic, anymore or less than is likely due to some effect on you. Extreme numbers as you say may be possible normally, but I don't believe so.

    11. Using Damaging effects, especially persistent AOEs, to get trash will most likely result in a wipe once the LoB Jumps and runs through them. This is why Casters do it best, Cloudkill, Discoball, Solid Fog, all do 0 damage, last for over a minute, and do what you need them to do, aggro trash. Once you have aggro you can toss a damage effect to make sure the tank doesn't pull it off you with a thrower.

    TTFN hope you learned something.

    Jyrja, Ploratus, Alcedon, Kyrzi, Lilayn, Jaidynn, Morsus

    Life is not fair, get over it now.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Excellent guide.

    On Power of the Forge - IMO both ways are equally viable. Personal preference is to shut down the pillars fast, because doing so reduces the consequences of any mistakes players make or latency issues you might have. Shade's approach is basically a higher risk, higher DPS approach, just like offtanking (not killing) VOD orthons speeds up completion but is riskier.

    Other suggestions:

    - In the final phase (Quori + Pillars), kill the rednamed dream reaver (Ancient Nightmare). He has very low HP (even on Epic his HP are similar to Sagrata in Hard Shroud, on lower difficulties he's even lower) and dies fast, but if your kiter gets stunned/stoned or even just low on HP at the wrong time, a healing curse from the Nightmare can wipe your raid. All melee DPS that aren't using a Forge buff should kill this thing before touching the pillars.
    - Void 4 monks are top anti-pillar DPS by a long way. They have absolute top priority for Forge buffs.
    - I personally prefer to kill the Hounds twice - once when LOB gains Rain of Blades, then once more at the end. Their HP aren't high (even on Epic they are noticeably lower than epic Crateos) and kiter deaths during Rain of Blades are a total nightmare. I have had two wipes caused because healers had to focus on the tank so much that the kiter died, and in the ensuing chaos enough people died that we lost control of the raid before their raise lockouts expired.

  14. #14
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Excellent guide.

    On Power of the Forge - IMO both ways are equally viable. Personal preference is to shut down the pillars fast, because doing so reduces the consequences of any mistakes players make or latency issues you might have. Shade's approach is basically a higher risk, higher DPS approach, just like offtanking (not killing) VOD orthons speeds up completion but is riskier.
    .
    It's simply a matter of the fact my strategy is as listed in the title "Advanced". It's going to require more practice to master sure, but will also result in a faster, smoother and lower resource cost raid.

    I think your preferance is based on the fact of the difficulties you generally run. I will make it clearer that that portion is "advanced" tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Other suggestions:

    - In the final phase (Quori + Pillars), kill the rednamed dream reaver (Ancient Nightmare). He has very low HP (even on Epic his HP are similar to Sagrata in Hard Shroud, on lower difficulties he's even lower) and dies fast, but if your kiter gets stunned/stoned or even just low on HP at the wrong time, a healing curse from the Nightmare can wipe your raid. All melee DPS that aren't using a Forge buff should kill this thing before touching the pillars.
    um have you ever done epic with such a poor strategy? The spawn rate is about 5 times faster. Even in a top dps grp if EVERYONE attacked that guy, the 2nd spawn which includes several more of him will happen probably just as he goes down.

    While it's true the trash does not respawn, it spawns in waves.. The diffrence in difficulties is how fast the waves spawn.. On normal it can take something near 60 seconds to get the 2nd wave, and given how fast the pillars die on normal, you almost never even see it. On epic the 2nd wave comes in around 10-15 seconds, and the pillars have 3-5x the hitpoints, meaning you generally get the full onslaught on enemies long before they go down... Which includes about 10 Nightmares.

    It's absolutely not viable to kill the red named trash on epic, there are way too many and it would require a huge amount of mana pots. It can be done on norm or hard sure. I do recommend insta killing the non red named trash on epic tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    - Void 4 monks are top anti-pillar DPS by a long way. They have absolute top priority for Forge buffs.
    Again, a fallacy of "X CLASS IS BEST" .. Whos best at the raid is 95% dependant on the player behind the computer, 4% on gear he has, and maybe 1% on class (roughly). While id' agree a perfectly 100% max skilled max equiped void monk that may be truely ideal candidate, I dont know any on khyber. Power priority should be judged on a player-by-player, case-by-case basis, and yea you can factor in class, but its not a big one imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    - I personally prefer to kill the Hounds twice - once when LOB gains Rain of Blades, then once more at the end. Their HP aren't high (even on Epic they are noticeably lower than epic Crateos)
    heh No.. If you think the dogs hp aren't that high, you really have no idea. It's insanely hard to kill them even with Khybers best players. Not worth it. I dont believe you ever have done such a thing on live. They have insane hp, ultra high armor class and take a VERY long time to kill even in tip top groups, add some xtra time to the raid for more mistakes = more death penalties = more lost buffs = severely reduced dps.. Just does not work.

    I've killed the dogs everytime on my first epic run, the amount of extra time and resource it took was a massive waste. Learned that the hard way its not worth it.

    Killing them on normal is easy enough and can eliminate some difficulty.. However I just dont recommend it, as I prefer to keep my strategies aligned across difficulties, as that ensure that runs on norm/hard count as practice towards Epic.
    Last edited by Shade; 11-14-2011 at 07:42 PM.

  15. #15
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    your guide is missing quite a bit of little details:

    no bard? a simple fascinate can easily halt a large group of trash mobs (hint hint wave before the quori) without using any resources. saving resources is critical on harder difficulties, plus . you mention using them as dedicated healers...this is one of many things they bring to the table - and there other uses should not be taken for granted. A stud bard + caster can really make an amazing combo for raid crowd controlling.

    no light monk? a light monk can anti-stun the tank, making him completely immune to the stun attack. that takes one less danger out of the equation, while still allowing the monk to dps.

    don't really agree with casters being a weak kite option for the end. personally I like throwing a favored soul into that job, as they typically have high saves, very good self healing capabilities, wings for emergencies, ect...plus a higher cha score so they don't get knocked into helpless from a single cha damage shot. a caster spotting him with stone to flesh can keep him going for a long time if necessary.

    overall good guide, but your definitely missing some critical information. Not saying I know all the details myself, either - but pugging it and purposefully taking the worst of the worst on our servers has taught me a lot.
    Last edited by protokon; 11-13-2011 at 03:15 PM.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Skani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    no bard? a simple fascinate can easily halt a large group of trash mobs (hint hint wave before the quori) without using any resources. saving resources is critical on harder difficulties,
    Not possible on epic - they are immune to fascinate. Both WFs and quori.
    ATM there is no point in running this raid on elite, and on normal/hard - who cares about WF trash, just kill them
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  17. #17
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skani View Post
    Not possible on epic - they are immune to fascinate. Both WFs and quori.
    ATM there is no point in running this raid on elite, and on normal/hard - who cares about WF trash, just kill them
    I see,

    only ran it on epic twice so didn't realize they were all immune to fascinate. makes sense, and for difficulty's sake glad it's like that.

    and your right on norm/hard an organized group can run around in one big blob and crush the mobs anyways.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    your guide is missing quite a bit of little details:

    no bard? a simple fascinate can easily halt a large group of trash mobs (hint hint wave before the quori) without using any resources. saving resources is critical on harder difficulties, plus . you mention using them as dedicated healers...this is one of many things they bring to the table - and there other uses should not be taken for granted. A stud bard + caster can really make an amazing combo for raid crowd controlling.

    no light monk? a light monk can anti-stun the tank, making him completely immune to the stun attack. that takes one less danger out of the equation, while still allowing the monk to dps.

    don't really agree with casters being a weak kite option for the end. personally I like throwing a favored soul into that job, as they typically have high saves, very good self healing capabilities, wings for emergencies, ect...plus a higher cha score so they don't get knocked into helpless from a single cha damage shot. a caster spotting him with stone to flesh can keep him going for a long time if necessary.

    overall good guide, but your definitely missing some critical information. Not saying I know all the details myself, either - but pugging it and purposefully taking the worst of the worst on our servers has taught me a lot.
    Pretty sure that the light monk anti stun does not work for the LoB's attack.

    Also, I'm not sure I can recall Shade running a raid without a bard in group.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  19. #19
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    Pretty sure that the light monk anti stun does not work for the LoB's attack.

    Also, I'm not sure I can recall Shade running a raid without a bard in group.
    I'm pretty sure it does. if not then i've just gotten extremely lucky for quite a few runs and coincidentally the tank was never stunned while a light monk was in the party...
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  20. #20
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    your guide is missing quite a bit of little details:

    no bard? a simple fascinate can easily halt a large group of trash mobs (hint hint wave before the quori) without using any resources. saving resources is critical on harder difficulties, plus . you mention using them as dedicated healers...this is one of many things they bring to the table - and there other uses should not be taken for granted. A stud bard + caster can really make an amazing combo for raid crowd controlling.
    Details that you've never tested I guess.

    All the Warforged have a buff called "Extreme devotion" on all difficulties, and even in the preraid. It makes them immune to facinate and other effects, not just epic as Skani said. The dreamscourge may not be immune on normal, not tested that.

    no light monk? a light monk can anti-stun the tank, making him completely immune to the stun attack. that takes one less danger out of the equation, while still allowing the monk to dps.
    I don't see anywhere in the guide that says "DONT TAKE A LIGHT MONK" or "DONT TAKE A BARD"
    -Yes they are a useful class..
    -No I'm not going to make the guide so exhaustive to include ever abilities from every class that work in this raid.
    Why? It's only needed with an unskilled/unprepared tank. It can and should be blocked as I do in the video.
    If the tank is unprepared but trying to learn how to block it, it will be very tough to do so if he cant tell when he missed it or when it worked because of the buff.
    So I will add a note on it, but I don't think its a big deal at all. 95% of my completions dont include a light monk, the ones that do, dont seem particularly better.
    don't really agree with casters being a weak kite option for the end. personally I like throwing a favored soul into that job, as they typically have high saves, very good self healing capabilities, wings for emergencies, ect...plus a higher cha score so they don't get knocked into helpless from a single cha damage shot. a caster spotting him with stone to flesh can keep him going for a long time if necessary.
    You've only ran epic and thus you really dont have enough experience to understand what exactly goes on. Most of the things you listed are worthless for the trash tank on epic.
    - Self Healing - The trash tank doesn't die because of some ranged spell damage. He dies because he got stuned/paralyzed/stoned/held/etc (Then gets mauled by the reavers/scourges).. Your self healing is worthless in those scenarios.
    - High Cha score - Not nearly high enough. On epic a single ego blast does 30-40 cha dmg, and they can spam 10 on you at once, your pretty much insta helpless no matther what class you are far as charisma score goes. Maybe a max cha sorc can take 1 hit, but not anyone else.
    -Wings.. Again like self healing, you cant do that while stuned, so it wont save you in emergies, while i might be nice to speed up your general kiting to get out of spell range temporarily, its not a huge boon.. Bbn or monk constant speed increase is far more useful in this regard.
    -So aside from having good saves, none of your points really apply.
    Also by casters I mainly meant wiz/sor.. A well equiped, high hp, high will save warforged favored soul is a fairly ideal candidate.. But like I outlined in my guide, race and equipment are the biggest factors, not class.. So a poorly equiped WF fvs is still not nearly as good as a well equipped wizard.

    overall good guide, but your definitely missing some critical information.
    Thanks.
    point2: Disagree. Everything you posted was either wrong or non-critical.
    Last edited by Shade; 11-14-2011 at 07:16 PM.

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