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  1. #1
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Default Is weapon proficiency so relevant nowadays?

    Hello all!
    I've a doubt...
    I'm running an experimental build of mine (Stormchanter : bard 12 warchanter / ranger 6 tempest / fighter 2) a melee one that at end game should slash everything, at least in theory, with a couple of mountain's fist.

    From my calculation MF is better than Axe of Adaxus about damage + it has an additional augment slot so a win-win to me since I've a couple of em EE.

    Now I was trying to fit my build with Toughness to adress a little bit more survivability and I noticed I forgot to slot Exotic weapon proficiency : Dwarven Axe.

    For what I know Be un-proficient with a weapon should give u a -4 to hit... once that was a awkward debuff due to lack of to hit and old AC system but I was wondering if it's so terrible now with new system where even a mage with a stick can hit a boss mob almost everytime.

    It's that the only debuff I'll get using an un-proficient weapon?
    It will count so much on my end game whit all the buffs and stuffs I can count on?
    Ty all for the answer
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    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386688

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilia View Post
    Hello all!
    I've a doubt...
    I'm running an experimental build of mine (Stormchanter : bard 12 warchanter / ranger 6 tempest / fighter 2) a melee one that at end game should slash everything, at least in theory, with a couple of mountain's fist.

    From my calculation MF is better than Axe of Adaxus about damage + it has an additional augment slot so a win-win to me since I've a couple of em EE.

    Now I was trying to fit my build with Toughness to adress a little bit more survivability and I noticed I forgot to slot Exotic weapon proficiency : Dwarven Axe.

    For what I know Be un-proficient with a weapon should give u a -4 to hit... once that was a awkward debuff due to lack of to hit and old AC system but I was wondering if it's so terrible now with new system where even a mage with a stick can hit a boss mob almost everytime.

    It's that the only debuff I'll get using an un-proficient weapon?
    It will count so much on my end game whit all the buffs and stuffs I can count on?
    Ty all for the answer
    Weapon proficiency nolonger removes the -4 to hit nonproficiency penalty. Instead, it gives a 20 percentage point increase on the chance to hit when proficient. This is a much larger issue.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  3. #3
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Weapon proficiency nolonger removes the -4 to hit nonproficiency penalty. Instead, it gives a 20 percentage point increase on the chance to hit when proficient. This is a much larger issue.
    mmmhh ty for the answer... I guess I must slot it somewhere, then ^^
    ALL HAIL TO ITS SQUISHY-MAJESTY SIR KNORR, LORD OF OOZES AND MASTER OF SLIME
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  4. #4
    Community Member lronEnema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilia View Post
    Hello all!

    From my calculation MF is better than Axe of Adaxus about damage + it has an additional augment slot so a win-win to me since I've a couple of em EE.
    Not sure about this

    Mountain's Fist (EE): 3x[1d10], crit 20x3
    Axe of Adaxus (EE): 3x[1d10], crit 20x4

    In raw damage terms AoA is better unless, I'm missing something. May well be that with it's slot filled the MF does more damage (depending upon build) but then it's additional slot would be filled.

  5. #5
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    AoA also wouldn't take a feat as it is a Battle Axe.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    AoA also wouldn't take a feat as it is a Battle Axe.
    Oh. Good point!
    It's definitely an N-word.

  7. #7
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    1st level bard spell, master's touch. Gives proficiency to in hand weapon until death or rest, so it's essentially a permanent buff.

    I'm currently playing a rogue with one level of bard for fascinate, and have a large stock of mauls, greatswords and greataxes from other toons and previous lives. I can easily do similar amounts of damage with a gs, for example, as I can with shortswords, precision, and the two weapon fighting line. With no proficiency, I hear a lot of whiffing, with master's touch, hits occur a lot more frequently. Keep in mind that it can be target specific.

    At any rate, it's an idea for a simple solution to your problem. It's a cheap spell in a level of nearly useless spells that casts quickly and semi permanently... give it a try.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    1st level bard spell, master's touch. Gives proficiency to in hand weapon until death or rest, so it's essentially a permanent buff.

    I'm currently playing a rogue with one level of bard for fascinate, and have a large stock of mauls, greatswords and greataxes from other toons and previous lives. I can easily do similar amounts of damage with a gs, for example, as I can with shortswords, precision, and the two weapon fighting line. With no proficiency, I hear a lot of whiffing, with master's touch, hits occur a lot more frequently. Keep in mind that it can be target specific.

    At any rate, it's an idea for a simple solution to your problem. It's a cheap spell in a level of nearly useless spells that casts quickly and semi permanently... give it a try.
    Except that the OP has ranger and fighter levels, so already has martial proficiency.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  9. #9
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Plus Master touch doesn't give u any proficiency in exotic weapons unfortunately :\

    Anyway... I think I've done some calculation wrong...

    Assuming I'd slot good in one red slot for DR bypass and got IC:slash
    I thought that MF has a 3[1d10]+2[1d10 elemental] 19-20/ x3
    so roughly 5d10 19-20/x3 assuming u'r not facing an immune to something foe.
    While Adaxus were 3[1d10]+1[1d10 elemental] 20/x4

    In 20 hits :

    MF = (5d10*16) +( (5d10*3)*4) = 5d10 * 28 every 20 swings.
    AoA = (4d10*18) + ((4d10*4)*2) = 4d10 * 26 every 20 swings.

    5d10 = 27.5 average damage
    4d10 = 22 average damage

    MF = 27.5 *28 = 770 damage
    AoA = 22 * 26 = 572 damage

    Problem is that I really dunno where in the hell I saw MF to have a crit range of 19-20/x3 ....
    Last edited by Nephilia; 03-14-2013 at 09:39 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilia View Post
    Problem is that I really dunno where in the hell I saw MF to have a crit range of 19-20/x3 ....
    If you have IC:Slash they will both effectively be 19-20

  11. #11
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    If you have IC:Slash they will both effectively be 19-20
    Y sure but I meant that MF has a basic 19-20 crit profile before apply IC:slash
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  12. #12
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilia View Post
    Problem is that I really dunno where in the hell I saw MF to have a crit range of 19-20/x3 ....
    Drinking anything?

    ;-)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  13. #13

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    With that build, and those weaponplans....why isn't the character a dwarf?

  14. #14
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narfle_the_Garthok View Post
    With that build, and those weaponplans....why isn't the character a dwarf?
    It's a human so I though I could net the difference with the proficiency with the free feat at lv 1.
    Plus I've full line in Human versatility and Human recovery which are nice imho.

    Anyway I made some new counts...

    Still assuming 20 swings, IC: slash and no elem immune mobs :

    MF = 27,5 normal swing
    16,5*3 (base damage) + 11 (elemental) on crit

    MF = (27,5*18) + ((16,5*3)*2) + 11*2 = 495 + 99 + 22 = 616


    AoA = 22 normal swing
    16,5*3 (base damage) + 5,5 (elemental) on crit

    AoA = (22*18) + (16,5*4)*2) + 5,5*2 = 396 + 132 + 11 = 539

    Seems that even while I'm under peyote I calculate not that bad effectively XD
    Am I missing something in there?
    The damage difference is huge!
    Last edited by Nephilia; 03-14-2013 at 10:21 AM.
    ALL HAIL TO ITS SQUISHY-MAJESTY SIR KNORR, LORD OF OOZES AND MASTER OF SLIME
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  15. #15
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nephilia View Post
    It's a human so I though I could net the difference with the proficiency with the free feat at lv 1.
    Plus I've full line in Human versatility and Human recovery which are nice imho.

    Anyway I made some new counts...

    Still assuming 20 swings, IC: slash and no elem immune mobs :

    MF = 27,5 normal swing
    16,5*3 (base damage) + 11 (elemental) on crit

    MF = (27,5*18) + ((16,5*3)*2) + 11*2 = 495 + 99 + 22 = 616


    AoA = 22 normal swing
    16,5*3 (base damage) + 5,5 (elemental) on crit

    AoA = (22*18) + (16,5*4)*2) + 5,5*2 = 396 + 132 + 11 = 539

    Seems that even while I'm under peyote I calculate not that bad effectively XD
    Am I missing something in there?
    The damage difference is huge!
    Both are +7 3[1d10] right? So both have the same base? It's just a question of one adding additional elemental from a slot, and one having a x4 multiplier, right?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #16

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    Thats not too much of a dmg difference. A couple of dmg per hit, mostly centered around crits.
    Which are not always confirmed, or break fort.

    Ow, and enjoy the trip.

  17. #17
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Both are +7 3[1d10] right? So both have the same base? It's just a question of one adding additional elemental from a slot, and one having a x4 multiplier, right?
    Y basically that's the problem!
    Maybe with the addiction of Str, PA, seeker and such the X4 multiplier would stand on top I guess...
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  18. #18
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Both are +7 3[1d10] right? So both have the same base? It's just a question of one adding additional elemental from a slot, and one having a x4 multiplier, right?
    And if you are going TWF or sword and board. Mountain's Fist have glancing blow damage, AoA do not.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    and if you are going twf or sword and board. Mountain's fist have glancing blow damage, aoa do not.
    twf

    And that's the build : http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...28#post4930428
    Last edited by Nephilia; 03-14-2013 at 12:10 PM.
    ALL HAIL TO ITS SQUISHY-MAJESTY SIR KNORR, LORD OF OOZES AND MASTER OF SLIME
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