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  1. #21
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    /signed, if mana pots are nerfed too.

    Torc is a game-breaking easy button. Any content designed for players without it is trivial for players with it.

    No other item in the game gives even remotely close to the same increase in power as the Torc. eSOS might make you 15-25% more effective and it was seen as 'so good it must be nerfed' - Torc gives much, much more.

    Some encounters would need to be redesigned without Torc, however. Epic LOB would need other ways to recover SP in the fight (perhaps the Forge buff).

  2. #22
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    /signed, if mana pots are nerfed too.
    This.

    The game, and raids in particular, are currently designed around the fact that (healers) running out of sp does not mean instant failure. From a success/failure perspective there is no substantial difference between filling sp with torc vs pots, so both deserve the same treatment from the nerf bat.
    A simple torc nerf does nothing by itself in increasing difficulty of anything (which I assume is the point) without making significant changes elsewhere.
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  3. #23
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Halo!?
    I think we should nerf haste, rage and boosts. In these times on epic where there is no haste, rage and boosts its mainly a fail.So... like in the posts above - lets just nerf everything that is easing epic diffuculty too much!

  4. #24
    Community Member Such755's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayla93 View Post
    Oh yeah. U melee have CHEAP pots (like e.g. silver flame or cure serious) and we have to pay 15k plat for mnemonic or
    TP points. So yeah... take away our TORC too... OO

    Idiotic.

    I agree - but if it gets in my healer on the beggining of every epic raid will collect from people 1 mnemonic per person.
    Or better. Im going to stop healing melees, Why to heal them? If u do it good, theyre going to put thread in forums that something i have is OP and want to take it away.

    That was with wings, DoT complaining, TORC complaning.
    Maybe we should take away madstone rage? I think its totally OP. And haste! Its helping melees too much id say.

    Next time when ull be waiting for healer t join any group on elite, dont cry if u wait 3 hours and no divine will join.

    /NOT signed.

    And


    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora1979 View Post
    /not signed

    Why do people keep taking their subjective view and asking for nerfs....

    if YOU think YOUR torc is over powered, dont wear it...... why should your experiance and opinion effect me?

    Play your own game people and dont keep trying to force change onto others game.


    Maybe I wouldn't put it in those exact harsh words, but I agree with those two guys, nothing else to add.

    /not signed.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bebeosita View Post
    /NOT SIGNED till melees get a stamina bar that determine your # of weapon attacks and your rolls
    Trust me on this if melees get a stamina bar every caster in the game will be in here saying nerf the stamina bar, for the purpose that with a stamina bar will come special attacks and combos some which will be AOE attack to a magnitude that casters will not agree with.

    as for a self healing item /not signed, self SP healing is the way it is because SP is used to heal HP in the majority adding a Self Healing item like that would further eliminate the need for non-SP classes to need SP classes to tag along.

  6. #26
    Community Member biggin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    This.

    The game, and raids in particular, are currently designed around the fact that (healers) running out of sp does not mean instant failure. From a success/failure perspective there is no substantial difference between filling sp with torc vs pots, so both deserve the same treatment from the nerf bat.
    A simple torc nerf does nothing by itself in increasing difficulty of anything (which I assume is the point) without making significant changes elsewhere.
    You beat me to it.

    If it were the only way to regen SP I could see your arguement. I wouldn't agree with it, but it could be debateable. But you can't say anything about unlimited SP when my blue bars are all sitting on 100+ pots. If anything I think the proc should be increased to help speed up the game for the times it is actually useful. The plain fact of the matter is that most arcanes and divines avoid damage at all costs. The only time we try and regen is where specific quests and raids are designed to be uncompleteable without them.
    Neg Ten, ruining your enjoyment of the game one quest at a time.

  7. #27
    Community Member Yokido's Avatar
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    I'd rather see torc give you a proc for a short buff that reduces the sp you spend for spells,
    than to have it give infinite sp in some situations.

    But in saying that I'm also the guy who says that both bauble and eRoSS should be made
    wear-able items, and their clicky effect should be changed to an sp recovery over time effect.

    As far as concordant opposition goes, it is pretty much negligible that people are getting
    sp off of such a small effect that you work hard for. 4% if you have an item, 8% if you
    have an item AND a weapon, which is still 1/5th less than the torc's proc rate, that's
    two slots and two T3 greensteel items.

    Sp pots are fine, they just need to apply a timer preventing you from using
    one every 30 seconds.

    /signed-ish

  8. #28
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    I'm on the other side... let's remove shrines ;-)
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    /signed, if mana pots are nerfed too.

    Torc is a game-breaking easy button. Any content designed for players without it is trivial for players with it.

    No other item in the game gives even remotely close to the same increase in power as the Torc. eSOS might make you 15-25% more effective and it was seen as 'so good it must be nerfed' - Torc gives much, much more.

    Some encounters would need to be redesigned without Torc, however. Epic LOB would need other ways to recover SP in the fight (perhaps the Forge buff).
    Incorrect.

    Torq may be game breaking for a three/four time tr who has all the gear and build points to withstand and overcome the damage taken in order to refill a mana bar.

    If the game continues to be developed along the lines of make it harder harder harder in order to satisfy the 1% of the playing population, whats the point for the devs to make high level quests? Items like the torq and mana pots allow the lesser players to try the new content without gobs of resources being used. As it stands, the new content is heavily resource driven for the less than perfect geared toons. Swinging the nerf bat at one piece fo gear that makes questing somewhat less resource driven is hardly what I would characterize as game breaking.

    So please, stop with the hyperbole by saying the torq is a game breaking easy button. Its not.


    as for nerfing mana pots, lets also nerf scrolls. Afterall they are an endless resource as well, huh?
    Last edited by Pape_27; 11-08-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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  10. #30
    Community Member zeonardo's Avatar
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    Do this a and the only healers you will ever see are Arties and WF LoB. Maybe.

    Roll a caster and be happy and stop whinning and calling for nerf bat everytime a good caster runs the show.

    /not signed
    I don't care...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    It can certainly hurt to be on the receiving end of a nerf

  11. #31
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    Torc and conc opposition should be changed to "x% chance that a spell costs 0 sp". Makes it useful but prevents exploitive possibilities.
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  12. #32
    Community Member Schwarzie's Avatar
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    /not signed

    at least as long as this would come without a MAJOR redesign of a lot of encounters and Manapotions.
    I am no native english speaker


    Other Toons: Siaphas, Kelderian, Kelras, Keldi, Kelmons

  13. #33
    Community Member balancetraveller's Avatar
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    Dang, OP never played a caster and dunno what the heck that you were suggesting? LOL

  14. #34
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    Not signed, not even remotely.

    A lot of people seem to think that casters run around with no regard for their blue bar and are just constantly seeing SP streaming in from their torc. In reality, it is nothing like this at all. If you want to regain a significant amount of SP you need to NOT KILL THINGS. You need to let those things sit there and hit on you.

    Have you ever been in an epic lord of blades where the healers decided to torc before going to the final fight? Did you hear everybody sigh right after they announced they wanted to?

    I think we torced up for the first half a dozen epic LoBs we did, now nobody can be bothered because it is so freaking boring.

    There are very few quests/raids in the game where a significant amount of SP is regained by torcing, simply because WE LIKE KILLING THINGS. We don't like NOT KILLING THINGS.

    But one of the things a Torc does provide, beyond a small amount of sp regen from the hits you do take running through and murdering everything, is that it provides a safety net.

    When your tank lags out on the run to the epic LoB right and half your party dies and you spend 1000 sp getting them back up, you have a way to recover that. IF you built your character right that is. IF you have some sort of DR, some temporary HP regen, and a way of healing yourself without wasting that SP you just gained back.

    The change that I would propose to torcing, which might have some people cry less, would be to make the amount of SP returned per proc scale with the amount of damage dealt by the mob before DR reductions are taken into effect. This would prevent people torcing of very low damage mobs, and would ensure that if you want to be able to torc from time to time you have to build a survivable character that can take some high damage hits.
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