Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 104
  1. #61
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,404

    Default

    404, thanks for taking the time and effort to make your thread and follow up so much with the posters

    I once thought about applying for ML but decided not to due to my enjoyment of the live servers.
    I don't get enough time to play what I'm paying for much less spend time on Lamm or ML.

    Good luck to the testers and thanks for all that you do for us (lazy non testers who complain
    about the lack of your testing ) .
    The Office of the Exchequer. 1750 on all live servers via Pure pugging. Thank you very much to all who helped carry a gimp . (wayfinder was a soloist build)


  2. #62
    Community Member altrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    In my mind, unless I'm out of it
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SHOCK_and_AWE View Post
    This is indeed a rather ostentatious occurrence. The UI change went through ML and Lamma and all the way to Live. I'm glad it was ultimately changed to a much better format (superior to the original in my opinion), but it is still odd that the annoying aspects weren't fully recognized before release.
    For the record, if you look at the Lamma forums, you will find that it was so riddled with bugs during the preview that we couldn't actually get a good idea of how it would work. I literally sat in a raid group for 1 hour with people dropping, rejoining and reforming to try and figure out a work around for people not showing up in the party UI. Once it was fully implemented, everyone pretty much hated it. I do like how quickly Turbine reacted to that, though. The UI now is much, much better.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    as for voice actors I wanted Betty White for Lolth but I got voted down.
    Khyber: Alelric - Wiz 5 (Hero), Arayaleth - Ranger 20 AA (Champion), Altrocks - Cleric 20 Radiant Servant (Champion), Zinnix - Rogue 20 Assassin (Champion)

  3. #63
    Community Member altrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    In my mind, unless I'm out of it
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    there will always be bugs in DDO it will never be bug free at any point in its lifetime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phemt81 View Post
    Can i say: quote of the year?
    Eh, more like missing-the-point of the year. It's not about making it bug-free. It never has been. It's the fact that certain major bugs that effect game play in major ways have persisted for weeks/months/years, often go ignored and currently we have no official way of reporting them other than to post on the forums and hope a dev reads it.

    - The Opportunist Feat not WAI was a well known bug (to the players) but was only picked up by the devs after the fort increase in U11, when it became game-breaking for rogue dps.

    - Destruction and Improved Destruction were intentionally changed by the devs, mentioned in release notes quite clearly, and was not WAI from the moment they hit Lamma (and probably ML as well). It was tested, talked about, reported, acknowledged and promptly ignored.

    - Handwraps. Need I say more?


    Just a few examples of what the problem actually is. We don't really care if there's some bugs. We expect that. But we also expect bugs that effect the game playing experience to be addresses quickly for the same reasons that 404 says ML exists for. If you have a certain mechanic in place in the game that supposed to work a certain way and it doesn't, that's not fun. That's frustrating. If it's a known bug and it sits there for months with no word on the progress of fixing it or that it's even been acknowledged as a bug by the devs and QA, that's infuriating. And when the dev/QA response to people complaining about this state of afairs is what 404 put up there, that's just the end of the rope as far as I'm concerned.

    I believe that the devs take bugs personally because they are the ones who coded them. I also believe it's more a matter of their own pride in their coding skills being injured than it is concern about the state of the game. Everyone feels bad when they mess something up. Not everyone cares about trying to make it right when they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    as for voice actors I wanted Betty White for Lolth but I got voted down.
    Khyber: Alelric - Wiz 5 (Hero), Arayaleth - Ranger 20 AA (Champion), Altrocks - Cleric 20 Radiant Servant (Champion), Zinnix - Rogue 20 Assassin (Champion)

  4. #64
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,496

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by altrocks View Post
    Eh, more like missing-the-point of the year.
    Exactly, you are missing the point of the year, if you caught it you would have used this face in your post -->

    And, i agree, not needing a perfectly bug free game (but WHO would complain about that? lol) but leaving things bugged while updating the game with more new content that spreads out even more bugs will not be the best solution to keep the game enjoyable.

    But that's just a consumer's opinion
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  5. #65
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    12,890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I lost faith in the ML server, both as a practicality and as a philosophy.


    After years of seeing Llamania feedback just go to waste, and even more seeing said feedback tagged as a "known issue" when brought up on Llama's forums and still have the problem linger for months more - I lost faith in the ML server, both as a practicality and as a philosophy.


    After years of slapping my forehead and wondering how did Problem/Bug-X make it past ML testers - I lost faith in the ML server, both as a practicality and as a philosophy.



    I'm sorry, but I just do not have any kind of conviction that the ML server does a damn thing. Especially after it being labeled another "Preview Server" in 404's OP. I see it as nothing but a behind-the-velvet-rope version of Llama. A members-only club, that has little direct impact on the game itself. Yeah, I'm probably wrong about a lot of that - but it's the honest impression I've gotten of ML since the game launched. I don't know if I'm wrong or not because I cannot know. A necessary side-effect of the NDA. All I can go by is the indirect evaluation I've been able to form over the years - and that evaluation is that ML is an empty effort.

    All I know is that my faith in ML is nill. This thread has done nothing to change that opinion. So... why expend my valuable free time in what I very much believe would just be wasted time? And don't get me wrong - I've beta tested for many games. I started DDO as a beta tester. I've tested RTSs, MMOs, FPSs, and a long list of titles for Microsoft (one of the benifits of living so close to their Redmond HQ). I like to test games, and have a good degree of experience doing so.
    I do not like to waste my time, however.
    Yup
    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post

    To answer point 1 in a very direct manner is there will always be bugs in DDO it will never be bug free at any point in its lifetime. Not everything will be addressed at that moment or we are curently focusing on other tasks that we don't have time to make soon to be released content as perfect as it should be. DDO like other MMO's is a living game and will always change and evolve. Does any of this mean we don't care, no we care deeply and if days came with more time we would fix more. Many members of both Dev and QA put in more hours than they should to try to make the game as fun and as good as it can be for every launch and we take it personally when we miss something.

    Myself and Kookie follow up with Dev's on a nearly daily basis to see what is being done on certain issues. The overall feedback is accounted for and reviewed regularly and we present that to the producers and the developers of their dungeons.

    ~404error~
    The problem is in what we see. We (the players) see ourselves and others posting bug report after bug report, both on Live and Lama, and the results often end up as major bugs that continue to go unfixed for months despite being labeled as "Known Issues" or we get devs (lumping everyone in together here, devs, QA, community relations, etc...) who claim that they didn't know about problem X, had never seen a bug report for issue Y, which makes it appear as though we aren't being heard, or are being actively ignored.

    You know why? Because we don't get any information from you guys about what's going on, whether you're looking to fix A, B and C in this way or that way. Instead, we get "fixes" to problems, that cause more problems, or that result in enormous backlash from the community, because the "fix" has incredibly undesirable consequences that would have become apparent in 2 seconds if we had been asked (off-hand items automatically moving to fill the main hand, for example).

    Oh, except that, if there is a bug in the game that benefits players, it gets fixed 100 times faster than any that hurt us. Something makes a quest too easy, or someone too strong? Fixed in a patch or by the next update, but if the bug hurts us, such as by having objectives uncompleteable or items breaking or disappearing, that can stick around for months or years.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  6. #66
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Middlonowhere, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    3,085

    Default

    I guess my problem with both Lammania and Mournlands both being 'Preview' servers is this: Why? What is the point of previewing content that will be hitting the live servers unchanged in a couple weeks? That is, if the update is written, and passed, and will not be changed despite any bugs that are found, then why release it to Lammania and not straight to Live? You'll be getting the exact same feedback and you'll have to follow the exact same procedures for reporting, prioritizing, and fixing any bugs. If anything, the Lamma release is hindering you, besides the resources required to keep it running, by flooding you with unwanted bug reports.
    And if Mournlands is simply your 'focus group' server, which is what I read you're telling me, then I'd think you need to take it off the radar completely. Populate it with non-DDOers if you want a fresh perspective, and a lower chance of leaks.
    I think that both of those programs, lamma and ML, are energy better spent elsewhere. It seems to me that players are more concerned with bugs making it to live than they are with innovative new features. Which means we'd rather see you making use of us as bug hunters, in an open test-server, which Lamma COULD be and really should be, rather than whatever these two servers are doing now, which feels to us like a waste of time.

    You're going to do what you're going to do, despite what I say here, and honestly I really do hope it works out for you. Anything to improve the game is fine with me... I'm just trying to get across to you that right now, as it stands, we feel like this is a waste. And since it's all secret and always will be, there's little way for you to prove to us that it isn't a waste. At least if ML or lamma WAS a bughunt server, and someone like Shade or whoever was to discover a bug, and you'd say 'Nice Catch!' and that bug would get squashed before release, well then we'd feel like we were getting somewhere, you know?

    anyways, like i said, I hope you're getting what you need from these things, and I hope it helps you make the game better. But for as long as it continues to feel like a waste, I'm gonna have to just ignore it... sorry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  7. #67
    Community Member Astraghal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Your Head
    Posts
    1,683

    Default

    I think Turbine have done a good job on DDO in the past year. When I started playing a year and a half ago, the game was way more dull and boring. I will often complain and take issue with class balance, because I enjoy playing melee and think they could be better implimented. But besides that I think that most of the content released in the last year has been great.

    I really loved the Carnival/Fens/Droam/Chronoscope/Madness packs. I think it's really good that Turbine is overhauling some of the useless old loot too. I think the game has definately got a lot going for it now and there's no reason why it can't have a good future. Overall I am happy that there's been more positive things happening in the game of late than negative.

    It's a good thing that Turbine has been engaging with the community a lot more lately too, I hope they keep that up.

  8. #68
    Community Member Flavilandile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,908

    Default

    Adding my two Euro-cents to the fight...

    I'm more or less on the same path as Memnir.

    While I appreciate the fact that Lammania and Mournlands exists. If their function is to be preview servers, then
    actions should be taken on the feedback of said preview.
    I'm not a Mournlander, and probably never will be, ( unless it becomes a real test server where we go to test things out and give a feedback both on how the thing tested works and how the tested thing is going to impact the game, and such feedback is acted upon. ) as it is just pointless right now. ( unless you think you can win the game... *shrug* )

    I'm going to point to the latests recent failures of both servers : the UI revamps.
    While I can't tell for Mournlands, but I hope it went through it, on Lammania, the feedback was clear on both the UI and the cooldown, it shouldn't go live. Sadly it went live, and for the UI, a crash patch/hotfix was created as it was evident that it was slowly killing the game ( everybody parking their healers ).

    As long as things like that will happen, both Mournlands and Lammania will be seen as nothing more than servers where you can learn before the world at large things that will make you have a bigger one over the rest of the world ( whatever you consider bigger ), and not servers where we go, give our feedback and actually have an impact on the game.
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  9. #69
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    433

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    If your every intention is to come and bug things you are better off applying to our QA department so you can actually track those issues you hate.
    Note taken. I'll ping Maj -> NEW PRESTIGES, PLEASE!
    Deepwood sniper!
    Fix sniper shot!
    New content - release Lammania on Lammania - a new adventure pack which is totally outdoors and focuses on rangers and druids. Yaay! (something like Redwillow's ruins).

  10. #70
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bell's Brewery, MI.
    Posts
    10,991

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vhlad View Post
    If someone said the same thing about Lamannia they would be wrong. Anyone who wants to access Lamannia can. Anyone who wants to read the Lamannia forums can. We do not have a competitive market under asymmetric information with Lamannia. We do, however, have it with mournlands: an exclusive private server where some players are able to get information that others cannot.
    So, people don't hit up Llama, use free points, buy tons of Store pots, and go brute force the Raids to learn how to beat them, go back to live with that knowledge and beat the raids on day one within hours of launch?

    Thx for the full on belly laugh man.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #71
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    8,779

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by B.Ogre View Post
    You're going to do what you're going to do, despite what I say here, and honestly I really do hope it works out for you. Anything to improve the game is fine with me... I'm just trying to get across to you that right now, as it stands, we feel like this is a waste. And since it's all secret and always will be, there's little way for you to prove to us that it isn't a waste. At least if ML or lamma WAS a bughunt server, and someone like Shade or whoever was to discover a bug, and you'd say 'Nice Catch!' and that bug would get squashed before release, well then we'd feel like we were getting somewhere, you know?
    But if someone like Shade were actually on ML for example and found and located 200 bugs that all got fixed and removed from the game before it went live, the NDA he signed would also preclude him or anyone else from letting anyone but those on ML from knowing about it. The other 100 bugs that got thru to Lammaland and Live would be all that the rest of the gamers see and thus conclude that Shades effort were futile. (Just using him as an example, not sure anything he does is futile....)

    So part of the conumdrum of a server like ML is that most of the good stuff is NEVER known about. The bugs that did get caught, the borked game play that never gets released. If you look at the timing of release of an update to Lammaland and it then going live, only the most major of game breaking bugs are likely to slow that release train from going live. The rest of the input is compiled and often shows up in the next update or hot fix or whatever they are calling it these days.

    I recall that Major once mentioned the triage aspect of their job. The need to rack and stack all the problems and address them in the order that makes the OVERALL most sense for the game. Small annoyances, yah they should be fixed, but often they are way down the list on the stacking order, and often get ursurped by new more urgent issues. I run into this issue at work all the time. That document should be updated and typos fixed, but we have this other bunch of issues that threaten work stoppages. Hop on those first. Often times other new issues keep jumping to the head of the line, leaving those old longstanding low priority issues to simmer forever it seems.
    Sarlona - The Ko Brotherhood :Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8+4E; Hennako-Human Cleric22; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15; lots more

  12. #72
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    So, people don't hit up Llama, use free points, buy tons of Store pots, and go brute force the Raids to learn how to beat them, go back to live with that knowledge and beat the raids on day one within hours of launch?

    Thx for the full on belly laugh man.
    Its painfully obvious you didnt even read the post you quoted.

  13. #73
    The Top Side GoldyGopher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Minnesnowta
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    As real life has interfered with my ability to respond in a timely manner this response might be a little rambling and is responding to a number of posts, I am not going to quote them all.

    I think it is disappointing that neither 404 nor Maj have explained exactly what the Mournland Program actually is. They can correct me if I am wrong but as far as I can tell the Mournland Program is a private preview server in which the Turbine staff attempts to determine the “Fun Ratio” of the changes they have decided to make. If ML players find bugs that is a bonus as far as Turbine is concerned.
    What the ML Program isn’t is just as important, it is not a program that directly influences the decisions on game design and system design any more than what already occurs on the forums. It is not full blown “beta test” of new systems nor is it a stress testing ground of shard or system performance.

    That being said, what is the “Fun Ratio”? When Turbine is looking at potentially making a change it is previewed to the ML players and they get to have an input. Note that by the time it makes it to ML, dozens or hundreds of hours have already been spent on said change, so something very similar to what the previewed change is going to go live. ML players have input on the final change but not necessarily the change as a whole, if that make sense.

    You talk about making ML players a secret and I laugh. I know about a dozen current and former ML players that have provide me with substantiated proof that they are ML players. Yes this means they have violated their NDA. I also now a good dozen more players that claim to be a part of the ML program, but I cannot say they have substantiated their claim. In many cases these players are looking for sounding boards to discuss whatever happens to be the topic du jure on the ML forum. Several of these ML players, IMHO, are attempting to do the right thing and be a conduit for the player base to the Devs.

    In this is where in my view a problem arises. Many of those ML players are affected by “Groupthink”, which is a phenomenon in which people want harmony rather than conflict in a group decision. Those players who seem to be less affected by Groupthink are the ones that are more likely to be former ML program players. In a business world we call these people “yes men”. I find it interesting because of the ML players I know outside of ML and on the live servers many of players have similar characters, similar play styles, and similar opinions.

    Beyond groupthink there are other problems with the ML program, the first which has been alluded to is too many ML players and their buddies are taking advantage of the information on ML that is not readily available. Allow me to explain;
    I am a big watcher of the auction house, I used to for fun manipulate prices more because I could than any other reason. Now I am more of a watcher, it is funny to watch what is on the auction house and their current prices and what items are being run on. Before “Cannith Crafting” was announced or showed off on Lammania there was a huge run on low to mid range items, hummm. Or WoP sell off, or the sudden rise of WoE, or the number of scrolls for Marilth Chain suddenly available a couple of weeks before it is announced.
    In addition just watch the LFMs, about a month ago there was an increase in the number of groups running Abbot Flagging Quests on two servers for sure. Not surprisingly after being released on Lammania there was a change to Abbot. Things that make you go Humm.
    As I have said Real Life (finalizing my divorce) has precluded me from playing as much as I would like lately but given a few weeks I could at least give you a good idea of what is changing not exactly how.

    The other problem with ML, as it is implemented it really is WAI, but the problem is players need a better pipeline to direct concerns in the game systems as the ML program isn’t that pipeline, as that is not ML program is for. What do I mean by this? Well rather there is a problem with how XP (loot and Favor to a smaller) is awarded in quests and it is a big problem for the casual/non hardcore players and leveling up TR, Turbine’s solution does nothing to correct those issues with Hard and Elite Bonuses and simply amplifies the difference between Hardcore players and those that aren’t. But any discussion on the problem is lost in the chaff on the forums. I could go into AC, Ranged Builds, Guild Bonuses, and literally two dozen other issues. The answer is we need a better forum (discussions) to address these imbalances in the game.

    The Twilight Avengers are always recruiting - http://twilightavengersofeberron.yuku.com/topic/655

  14. #74
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Yup
    You know why? Because we don't get any information from you guys about what's going on, whether you're looking to fix A, B and C in this way or that way. Instead, we get "fixes" to problems, that cause more problems, or that result in enormous backlash from the community, because the "fix" has incredibly undesirable consequences that would have become apparent in 2 seconds if we had been asked (off-hand items automatically moving to fill the main hand, for example).
    Not entirely true. This post by MajMalphunktion is in my opinion the single best post by a Turbine employee in my year long experience with DDO. While not perfect, it did at least show that Turbine acknowledged certain bugs and even gave the status of some of them (still a lot of simply "know issue" lines but at least MajMalphunktion said work was proceeding on some of them). More communication along these lines is definitely needed. Unfortunately many of the follow-up threads read more like press releases than updates on current work which is what I think most of us would like to see. We don't really need teaser posts about challenges, future updates and item updates. I'd like to hear that my quickened spell will be displayed correctly in the next patch or opportunist will finally work correctly (or how about fixing that turbulent epee).

  15. #75
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Staten Island, NY
    Posts
    12,890

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheep_Stealer View Post
    Not entirely true. This post by MajMalphunktion is in my opinion the single best post by a Turbine employee in my year long experience with DDO. While not perfect, it did at least show that Turbine acknowledged certain bugs and even gave the status of some of them (still a lot of simply "know issue" lines but at least MajMalphunktion said work was proceeding on some of them). More communication along these lines is definitely needed. Unfortunately many of the follow-up threads read more like press releases than updates on current work which is what I think most of us would like to see. We don't really need teaser posts about challenges, future updates and item updates. I'd like to hear that my quickened spell will be displayed correctly in the next patch or opportunist will finally work correctly (or how about fixing that turbulent epee).
    The problem is that posts like that are incredibly rare, and that we don't get similar posts along the lines of what the devs are thinking as solutions to problems with major game mechanics/quests/etc..., or ideas for new PrEs, spells, feats, etc... Now, sure, the devs don't (and shouldn't) need to check in with us on everything, but it would be helpful if they did more often, to avoid their having spent a lot of time trying to fix something or add something new and interesting to the game, only to have much of the playerbase react negatively to it, because it hurts us in some way, or is lackluster.

    Don't get me wrong, we do get posts like that sometimes (thinking specifically about Genasi's epic loot updates for Houses P and D from several months ago), but I don't feel like we get them enough. Devs have acknowledged that the AC system needs fixing, and that it's on their To Do List, but I haven't seen anything regarding their thoughts on how to approach the problem. Are we going to end up with some clunky system that doesn't really solve any of the problems, like when the devs gave epic minions the -d20 roll on their attacks, without seeming to lower the starting to-hit scores?
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  16. #76
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,331

    Default

    The whole ML issue is complex to say the least.

    Disclosure being the # 1 concern for the devs.

    Gaining an edge being a main concern for the players.

    At what point is the line crossed for exploiting the knowledge? And what can be done about it?


    The option of making or forcing players to be exclusive to ML won't happen, who would want to give up their friends & such on their main server?

    And to expand the player base for ML would be like drilling small holes on a boat (eventually it will leak).

    I do have an opinion on making it better. But, again it goes back to disclosure.

    As Lama has been open to the public, for those wishing to download & run when live. A similar set-up could be utilized as effectively.


    404, ;

    On all the live servers, as we meet & run with players, we form bonds of varying degrees. Some of those bonds leads to people banding together in a guild or alliance.

    Most older, more established guilds are selective about who they let in. ML could operate in a similar fashion. The small application you have for requesting to join ML is similar to going to a guilds website & requesting admission.

    Take the pool of appps people have submitted, and invite them to spend time with them on Lama! By this you can best determine the players abilities & demeanor.
    As this isnt fool proof, it is a way of better screening prospective ML players.

    Complex issue for sure. I like the idea of ML, and Im sure it's a huge asset in helping develop the game & systems.


  17. #77
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    gamertown usa
    Posts
    7,435

    Default

    Honestly, I like the idea of inviting people into a 'closed' test server. I understand the need for focus groups and opinions from the people who play the game for direction.

    I also understand the ened for the non-disclosure of it all. Despite the clear message about Lama being a preview server, how things can change daily, hordes of information is expelled before it hits live. Fortunately, the NDA on such a program is nil, so it isn't soo bad.

    Whereas, ML is a deep preview. It goes further than just one update (afik). So anything players gather from there could have either 0 or 100% ramifications in live play. Again, hence the secracy.

    In all the years I have been testing, only public betas have the loose NDA's. Private beta's always have strict NDA's for the sole reason of keeping their features guarded until it is ready for public display.

    How a company manages its IP is it's business. We know a ton about preview content from lama. So not knowing what ML is focusing on is nothing for me to ignore. When I see updates on ML wanting new people though, I get excited because I may get chosen. LOL

    I think having three tiers (ML, Lama, Live) is a great way to get focus and develop the features in a faster way than normal.

    My argument about why having a open 'closed' beta is bad? The same reasons 404 mentioned. Too much that would get cut would be talked about before it went to Lama.

    Regarding QA; it is one of the big thankless jobs. As bugets get tighter, QA shrinks the most. Members testing have to become more adapt at debugging and troubleshooting and can spend weeks root causing one issue. This is complicated by release schedules, dealines for bugs, deadlines for product releases, etc.

    I am sure many features that have been talked about in the past were put on hold for QA reasons alone. In the long run, as long as a majority of users don't experience severity 1 bugs, then it generally gets pushed to public. That is true with every single computer software product out there; games or not.

    MMO's happen to be the largest, most complex programs to exist. Butterfly effects can be catastrophic and come from the simplest of things. So making changes to core code is very difficult and problematic at best. Again, true in all products, but magnified in mmo products.

    I don't think there is a budget big enough to properly test a build before any reasonable deadline is reached. The war behind the scenes is fixing as much as they can, as fast as they can, given the time allotted to them. The huge swarm of bugfixes I see each week in Maj's forum posts is a big nod to the 'QA exists and does their job' sign.

  18. #78
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    7,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    On a whole I have seen less complaints on how fun everything is in the past year and that leads me to believe that what is being done by the players that have applied and are representing you are doing what we hoped for. That says to me that it is working on what it is intended to do.
    404,

    I have stated numerous times on the forums since EU released that I find the game overall to be a worse game as time has passed since EU. I have also had negative feedback deleted more times since EU released then prior to EU's release by orders of magnitude.

    It is difficult to judge success by what you hear from a closed community where all the incentives are to be a yes man (ML) or from a forum where negative feedback is often eliminated.

    Let me be clear on this. The game is getting worse not better in my opinion. Even with new content and new classes the game is less fun then it was.

    Onto another subject...leaking and abuse of gameplay advantage material from ML.

    This should never happen. Not because security should be better or some other impossible to realize idealization. No this should never happen because anything that provides these sorts of advantages should be an open discussion with the real DDO community.

    Example...
    Wounding and puncturing changes. These should have went to the live community on Lammania. Let the community actually digest them there and state if the idea is horrible or not. No one gains an advantage over others.
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
    Main: Sharess
    Alts: Avaril/Cyr/Cyrillia/Garagos/Inim/Lamasa/Ravella

  19. #79
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    8,779

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    404,
    Onto another subject...leaking and abuse of gameplay advantage material from ML.

    This should never happen. Not because security should be better or some other impossible to realize idealization. No this should never happen because anything that provides these sorts of advantages should be an open discussion with the real DDO community.

    Example...
    Wounding and puncturing changes. These should have went to the live community on Lammania. Let the community actually digest them there and state if the idea is horrible or not. No one gains an advantage over others.
    No, all that does is shift the potential WHO gets the advantage. Very few players actually frequent the forums and even fewer bother with Lammaland. Had something been proposed and shown on Lamma, then those who saw it there first would also have the same kind of advantage over everyone else, and perhaps only for a few days, would have the same potential for "profiting" from the information.

    It comes across that you would be ok with leaks, as long as you and your peers were in on it, but not ok if some smaller group had that potential that you are not part of. The principle is much the same. Those with advance knowledge taking advantage of those who do not have that knowledge. Expanding the number of people who can take advantage of that information gap does not really address the core issue as you state it.
    Sarlona - The Ko Brotherhood :Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8+4E; Hennako-Human Cleric22; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15; lots more

  20. #80
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    7,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenako View Post
    No, all that does is shift the potential WHO gets the advantage. Very few players actually frequent the forums and even fewer bother with Lammaland. Had something been proposed and shown on Lamma, then those who saw it there first would also have the same kind of advantage over everyone else, and perhaps only for a few days, would have the same potential for "profiting" from the information.
    Nonsense.

    Word spreads quickly in game about these sorts of things. Anyone making a big ticket trade/purchase can log onto the forums and check or ask some people in game if the information is available for public consumption.

    This is like arguing the difference between insider trading and a public announcement about a companies profits are the same because some people do not read the newspapers.
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
    Main: Sharess
    Alts: Avaril/Cyr/Cyrillia/Garagos/Inim/Lamasa/Ravella

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload