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  1. #21
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    WoW.
    Citation please. Link me to information about said server.

    I can name non-MMO's too- Valve for all their games.
    Again citation. I know of zero valve games that do this. They certainly do not advertise if they do so, im a huge fan of many of their games and would know about this, not so much for WoW, but for a couple valve games ive been following for years: TF2, CS.. I would know, I'm 100% positive they NOTHING like mournlands.

    I know for a fact both WoW and most the big valve games (CS, TF2) have PUBLIC OPEN test version and servers unlike DDO. They also have bug report forums and read every report. Thats the major difference. Open, transparent QA that is very clearly reading and responding to a lot on dedicated bug report forums, they have great QA. How frequently TF2 gets updates and few bugs it has is awesome.

    If they also have a hidden un-advertised closed one, that is a good thing. And thats absolutely not the same thing.

    Saying
    "We have this great preview server, we keep talking about it.. and no you can't join, and no we have no test server." is a lot different then saying nothing, advertising a open public test server and having a hidden one out of sight for earlier stuff.
    Last edited by Shade; 11-05-2011 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #22
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    It is not that we don't know about it or 'spot' it, well, go read my blog. The why on bugs like this is all there, and I don't want to re-type it.
    Ok. I've read your blog. That's not the point.
    The point is that you guys don't finish things. Forget what I said about Sniper shot breaking stealth. That's minor.
    Really, it is. But nonexisting Deepwood sniper II and III is hardly a bug. That's a design flaw.

    I don't want to compare prestiges to Wow talent trees because it makes no sense. But, in a way - wow talent trees are more complicated, they give more options than your prestiges. What would Wow players say if Blizzard would roll out a class with 1.5 talent trees done? :P

    See, that's my issue with this game. I can't stand that you blindly ignore the fact that things are half way done or not done at all!!!
    All you say - we know about it. It's on our known issues list. Who cares if it's on the list for 2-3 years and nobody does anything about it!!!!
    So, it all comes down to that your owners, WB, don't give you money because they don't think it's a game which can compete on MMORPG market and which doesn't deserve much attention.
    Maybe they're blind/stupid!

    There are several reasons for this:
    1) you roll out a German speaking server which is based in US and is empty - nobody speaks German - all speak english. You lost partners in Europe and now your global service is US based which causes increased latency for players from Europe/Asia, whatever.
    2) bad localization - you probably have 1-2 persons which can translate strings in English into German and French - that would be Tolero. Not that she's bad, it's that you lack money to properly translate - also the GM speech should be translated.
    3) very few new graphics models - reusing old models with a simple new texture and name change. I'm not saying don't reuse, it's just way to much of it.
    4) making promises which you don't fulfill - prestiges announced in 2008, Druids :P,

    I don't expect you to reply on this. Send Fernando to WB with a requirement of 10 mil $ for advancement of this game. Then fix bugs, revamp classes and launch servers in Europe and Asia and revive this game to what it needs to be. :P (never gonna happen, btw.)

  3. #23
    Community Member Xionanx's Avatar
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    Really I think the above posters hit the nail on the head. DDO is a dieing game. Its old, its using an outdated engine, and its competing in a notoriously fickle market where "the next big mmo" is always just around the corner.

    However, the second part about that is that a LARGE portion of the players who are playing DDO today are the same players who were playing it when it first came out. At least we seem to be the most vocal on the forums. I find it hard to believe that fixing bugs and issues that have been plaguing your long term subscribers takes a backseat. That keeping promises made YEARS ago are not a priority.

    Take a GOOD HARD LOOK AT FFXIV and what happens when developers ignore the PLEAS of the players. Then look at that nice new ROADMAP they published about their plans and what they intend to do to fix the game. As much of a fail as the launch of FFXIV was -

    TURBINE COULD LEARN A LOT FROM HOW SQUARE IS RESPONDING

    Seriously, give us a nice detailed roadmap that shows that you are at least AWARE of these issues players have, and that you have some kind of "Plan" in place to take care of them.

    Mournlands is a joke! Players ***** on these servers not because they hate DDO and want to see it ruined, they ***** because they LOVE DDO and WANT TO SEE IT IMPROVED. I think you as devs have lost touch with that.

  4. #24
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    If they also have a hidden un-advertised closed one, that is a good thing. And thats absolutely not the same thing.
    It seems to me that Mournlands is absolutely this same thing. The only difference is that Mournlands is advertised; which affects its intended function not one iota, and makes it one step more open than Valve or Blizzard, from what you say.

    What you're apparently asking for - a public test server - is exactly what MajMalph has said, multiple times, that he wants, but can't get authorisation for.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auran82 View Post
    I wonder if it would be possible to see the same sort of pattern with expensive desert scrolls...
    I am not on mournlands, but heard about scroll changes many many months ago.

    gamers are a funny breed, almost impossible to keep secrets for long. If the mournlands folks are gamers then there will be leaks, but they will find major balancing issues and bugs. If they populate mournlands with casual gamers(that will keep secrets), then few balancing issues or bugs will be found.
    Last edited by mystafyi; 11-05-2011 at 07:11 PM.

  6. #26
    DDO Producer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Citation please. Link me to information about said server.


    Again citation. I know of zero valve games that do this. They certainly do not advertise if they do so, im a huge fan of many of their games and would know about this, not so much for WoW, but for a couple valve games ive been following for years: TF2, CS.. I would know, I'm 100% positive they NOTHING like mournlands.

    I know for a fact both WoW and most the big valve games (CS, TF2) have PUBLIC OPEN test version and servers unlike DDO. They also have bug report forums and read every report. Thats the major difference. Open, transparent QA that is very clearly reading and responding to a lot on dedicated bug report forums, they have great QA. How frequently TF2 gets updates and few bugs it has is awesome.

    If they also have a hidden un-advertised closed one, that is a good thing. And thats absolutely not the same thing.

    I'm ok with Bringing ML to the forefront right now...Keeping it a secret when everyone already knew is just...stupid. The cat is already out of the bag, why pretend?
    Maybe we will start another server in the future. Maybe we already have.

    Saying
    "We have this great preview server, we keep talking about it.. and no you can't join, and no we have no test server." is a lot different then saying nothing, advertising a open public test server and having a hidden one out of sight for earlier stuff.
    Fight club Shade. I know employees at both places. they do private betas. I've been in them.
    Keeping ML secret at this point when everyone already knows about it is..well, stupid. Why pretend?
    Maybe we will do another super secret in the future. Maybe we already have one.
    Last edited by MajMalphunktion; 11-05-2011 at 08:55 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xionanx View Post
    Really I think the above posters hit the nail on the head. DDO is a dieing game. Its old, its using an outdated engine, and its competing in a notoriously fickle market where "the next big mmo" is always just around the corner.

    However, the second part about that is that a LARGE portion of the players who are playing DDO today are the same players who were playing it when it first came out. At least we seem to be the most vocal on the forums. I find it hard to believe that fixing bugs and issues that have been plaguing your long term subscribers takes a backseat. That keeping promises made YEARS ago are not a priority.

    Take a GOOD HARD LOOK AT FFXIV and what happens when developers ignore the PLEAS of the players. Then look at that nice new ROADMAP they published about their plans and what they intend to do to fix the game. As much of a fail as the launch of FFXIV was -

    TURBINE COULD LEARN A LOT FROM HOW SQUARE IS RESPONDING

    Seriously, give us a nice detailed roadmap that shows that you are at least AWARE of these issues players have, and that you have some kind of "Plan" in place to take care of them.

    Mournlands is a joke! Players ***** on these servers not because they hate DDO and want to see it ruined, they ***** because they LOVE DDO and WANT TO SEE IT IMPROVED. I think you as devs have lost touch with that.
    Lets take these one at a time.
    Death: I've been hearing this about DDO for 4 years. I bet the quarterly thread of our doom is out there right now..
    Let me look down the hall at that other dead game Acheron's Call...or right they have an update next week too.
    Launch/old timers a majority: not true.
    Roadmap- never going to happen. That is a last ditch effort to save their game from oblivion. We are not anywhere near desperation.
    Devs out of touch: Right. That is it. There is this funny movie with Alicia Silverstone you should watch.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Fight club Shade. I know employees at both places. they do private betas. I've been in them.
    for new releases, private alpha and beta's before open beta is common. for updates, private beta's without having public beta's and bug forums is uncommon.(yes i know this isnt your fault)

    DDO doesnt even have a working bug reporting function! previously bug reports never were entered into the system or were outright deleted. Now the whole system is bugged for months. For gods sake fix this and the datdefrag util that worked till someone at turbine broke it.

    hirelings, datdefrag, bug reporting function, client memory leak, ladders, quicken metafeat toggle, event lag, gear swap lag(umd lag)... please work on these.

  9. #29
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Roadmap- never going to happen. That is a last ditch effort to save their game from oblivion. We are not anywhere near desperation.
    But admit it Maj...you are CLOSE to using a roadmap. Not quite there, but close. Think of the situation as this: Some invisible force with broken handwraps is pushing you to a endless chasm. Unless you react and possibly counter this force, you'll either have to use everything you got(Specifically the roadmap) to have a chance or fall right into that chasm. DDO came close once to falling into that chasm, and that was when the game was under the name of 'stormreach'.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Roadmap- never going to happen. That is a last ditch effort to save their game from oblivion. We are not anywhere near desperation.
    Sure, no "roadmaps".... symbol of desperation. That's fine.

    But there are ways to publish more concrete information to the users without going into map-like detail, and without the game having been in desperation. Consider this article from Warcraft designers. They're talking about a nuanced game design concern that might not even become a change, but it's still a useful and productive communication. It demonstrates the competence and awareness of the designers, and gives players an opportunity to provide input (while there's still time to act on it).

    DDO could stand to have somethings like that published... the designer diaries of U11 and U12 were orders of magnitude less meaningful than that, concerned mostly with superficial choices or jokey ancedotes. For example, for a difficult topic the DDO devs could talk on "Iron Defenders: Useful enough?"... or for an easier subject (because it matters less) they could try "Harm spell and divine DPS".

  11. #31
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Has anyone said: DDDDdddooooOOOOOOoooOOOooOOOOMMmmmm!!!!!!!!1!!!!11 !!!!!one!!!!!!eleven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh wait I was busy having fun killing kobolds, nevermind.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  12. #32

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    What so many people don't seem to understand is that for DDO, new content is not about releasing 30 new adventures that are boring and just another dungeon that looks like all the others out there already. Every time you see new content in DDO, isn't it usually fairly different from what has already been in the game in terms of dungeon/adventure layout? New game mechanics are STILL being added after all this time, and that is NOT the sign of a game that is going to die.

    Now, when you start seeing more new adventures that look too much like older adventures, THEN you can start to spout your talk about "Doom!", but until then, DDO is still progressing and evolving in a positive way.

    Now, I do feel that DDO could use a bunch of new quests that re-visit old areas in the same way Hiding in Plain Sight did. Go back, look at old adventures that COULD have a second part to them, and that could allow for some "10 new adventures" in the new release releases. I am not saying that this should be common, but I, and probably others, would probably find it fun to see more continuity. The whole way that the old marketplace tent was removed from the game for example was beautifully done.

  13. #33
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Taken from OP:

    QUOTE: "Knowing what sort of feedback has been given before is a good indication of what feedback will be given in the future" UNQUOTE

    No dissenting voices eh?


    Suggestions:

    1. Add Lamannia to the ingame servers {Like Wayfinder}. You'll get far more people testing for bugs.
    2. Sort out the Bug reporting issues {This is not a known bug is hardly an answer people want to see}.
    3. Let GMs give more detailed explanations to people reporting bugs.
    4. I've not bug reported them in the past but I'll mention them here - Ghost of a Chance in 3 Barrel has a crossroads that causes massive lag spikes, Dryden's Tomb causes insane lag throughout the quest {No problems with the rest of Catacombs}.

    Oh! And please please please give us Kobolds as a playable race.

    Yark!

  14. #34
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yokido View Post
    Turbine made Mournlands because the players in Lammania weren't
    being honest about their opinions or their opinions were too bias.


    It's been seen on multiple accounts that the preview server does
    not give a good enough idea of what to expect resistance against,
    one of the bigger examples would be the global cooldowns(which scared
    a good deal of the player base away from the game due to the
    inability to stare at consistently flickering lights, borderline epileptics
    who were previously able to cope with the light changes of the game).

    The reason selective membership is probably being activated is
    because they want people who aren't bias towards the game,
    people who notice changes, and people to reveal their gaming
    mind-set.

    It probably isn't that everyone on Lammania testing lacks
    the right mind-set, it's probably that most of them don't,
    and weeding through it is a financial setback.

    Oh and Turbine, +1
    Mournlands was first and Llama followed, so, wanna try again?

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  15. #35
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vhlad View Post
    Some players may believe that the secretive aspect of Mournlands does more harm than good. Ultimately, the question they want answered is: What do you do to prevent mournlanders from having a competitive advantage in the live game?

    In economics we call it a competitive market under asymmetric information. Mournlanders have the opportunity to know what is nerfed and what is buffed before the rest of the playerbase. They may have known: (a) to trade their rare desert scrolls early, (b) which items would be upgraded and how (i.e. to collect raid loot that they would have otherwise given away or traded), (c) to focus on one character early because TR was coming, (d) not to build a character around mithral full plate + evasion before the nerf, (e) things that I cannot talk about (tavern, necropolis, boots, runes, etc.), (f) Many more examples (i.e. trade WoPs before the nerf). Other players can add to the list if they wish, but you get the idea.

    How do you police it? What incentives or disincentives are there? Information from previous incarnations of Mournlands has been leaked before and has given players and guilds a tremendous advantage in the live game.

    As a competitive gamer who doesn't play DDO anymore but still checks up on the game, convince me that the secrecy and exclusivity behind Mournlands does not place non-mournlanders at a massive competitive disadvantage.

    You can't monitor their trading habits because they can post in the trade forums and use the auction house with a separate account. You can't police what information they disclose because they can use vent/skype/teamspeak, external forums, etc.

    If your only control mechanisms are screening, trust, and the threat of losing access, then good luck with that.
    You can say the same exact thing about Llama.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Death: I've been hearing this about DDO for 4 years. I bet the quarterly thread of our doom is out there right now...
    I remember opening the red box and pulling out the crayon to color in my dice.
    I volunteered beside a WotC employee who recalled using the pieces of paper given in place of dice.
    I learned a lot from that man and his partners, he still works for WotC.

    This is the only MMO I have ever played.

  17. #37
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Every game has "testers" to some degree. It looks like this is a way for Turbine to not pay people, while allowing some players to help make the game better. The question is "do they actually listen to what the players say" I personally would find it frustrating to have my characters and loot "erased" every few days, and much like Lamania, where the Devs have their own agendas, very little is "heard" from the players by the Devs or they have selective hearing and hear what fits their agenda. ....still a great game..
    The Best Server: Gallhanda

    Looking for a great guild? Check Out Our Guild: http://www.oldtimersguild.com/vb/forum.php

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  18. #38
    Community Member gloopygloop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Fight club Shade. I know employees at both places. they do private betas. I've been in them.
    Keeping ML secret at this point when everyone already knows about it is..well, stupid. Why pretend?
    Maybe we will do another super secret in the future. Maybe we already have one.

    It won't help, Maj. Any time someone from Turbine says that Shade is wrong, he just claims that they're lying.

  19. #39
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    Feedback and comment is fine, insults and personal attacks are not. Let's keep this discussion civil, please.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
    Submit DDO Bugs through: ddobugs.turbine.com
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  20. #40
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Technical question here:

    The Minimum Age of 18 is for the part of having to sign a contract, I assume? Or is there another reason for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Welcome to Argo, where our end game players are constantly striving for new and exciting ways to make themselves more gimp, and continually working towards progressively more pointless goals.
    BYOH. Know it, abide by it, or don't mess with those who do.

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