Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 58 of 58
  1. #41
    Founder Xyfiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    2,724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    Again, raging means a barbarian is angry, not stupid. They are actually described as cunning warriors in the Player's Handbook. Too many people associate them with "Hulk Smash".
    Axer only has 11 intelligence, 1 after a SF pot. I don't think it matters if he is raging or not.

  2. #42
    The Hatchery
    2015 DDO Players Council
    LrdSlvrhnd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    1,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franke View Post
    Okay,let me see if I've got this right . . .a barbarian is raging and running around in Crystal Cove where there are plenty of enemies to fight. You think he should be able to place the torches at set distances to lead a team of miners to mine rare minerals for you,while communicating with team-mates who are scouting out the most lucrative routes?
    Added to that, you argue that dropping barrels along the route in the most opportune locations is also a reasonable action for someone who is only interested in finding a foe to tear apart?

    I would argue that a raging barb would drop their entire stack of torches and barrels at the first sight of an enemy and do what they do best.
    On top of that, you're not just dropping a stick... you're ACTIVATING it. Using magic. With a command word. Which I'm pretty sure is one of the no-nos involved in raging. Also, the barrels are likely magical in nature and have to be properly keyed for the kobolds to use 'em properly (What, you think a kobold could ACTUALLY carry 5 barrels of crystals around? Kobold no pack mule!)

    This can be evidenced by the fact that actually dropping the torches/barrels (by dragging them out of the inventory) does squat.

    They *shouldn't* be able to place torches while raging, IMHO. Now, potions on the other hand, there shouldn't be any problem guzzling them by the score while raging. But I have zero problems with not being able to use challenge items (admittedly, I know nothing about challenge items. But torches are fairly obviously a magical item, and I would imagine so would be something called a 'magefire cannon'. Dunno what the kobold gems are about, but I'm sorta imagining a magical grenade... which would require activating. And I'm betting turning into a kobold is magical in nature...)
    "Ignorance killed the cat, sir; curiosity was framed."
    Tripoint, C.J. Cherryh

  3. #43
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,671

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    On top of that, you're not just dropping a stick... you're ACTIVATING it. Using magic. With a command word. Which I'm pretty sure is one of the no-nos involved in raging. Also, the barrels are likely magical in nature and have to be properly keyed for the kobolds to use 'em properly (What, you think a kobold could ACTUALLY carry 5 barrels of crystals around? Kobold no pack mule!)

    This can be evidenced by the fact that actually dropping the torches/barrels (by dragging them out of the inventory) does squat.

    They *shouldn't* be able to place torches while raging, IMHO. Now, potions on the other hand, there shouldn't be any problem guzzling them by the score while raging. But I have zero problems with not being able to use challenge items (admittedly, I know nothing about challenge items. But torches are fairly obviously a magical item, and I would imagine so would be something called a 'magefire cannon'. Dunno what the kobold gems are about, but I'm sorta imagining a magical grenade... which would require activating. And I'm betting turning into a kobold is magical in nature...)
    Are the torches really activated by magic? I thought they were just stinky torches that Kobolds followed by smell and the lines connecting the torches were added for the players benefit. If it's just lighting incense, I'm pretty sure a raging barbarian can do that. If you doubt me, get a copy of Pumping Iron.

    I really don't see why barbarians should be prevented from using torches and barrels. There's no UMD check on the items, so I don't see how it's any different than the Radiant Arc, which raging barbarians can use (except for the Everbright flash). I'll agree that magefire cannons would be a more reasonable item that barbarians shouldn't be able to activate.

  4. #44
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in North Carolina
    Posts
    730

    Default

    Barbarian rage is described as a bloodthirsty frenzy.

    Considering that frenzy is defined as extreme mental agitation; wild excitement or derangement, (link) it would seem that a raging barbarian would be more likely to throw the barrels at their enemies and beat them up-side the head with the torches.

    Rage is an extremely powerful feature of the class. The drawback is that you can't think straight until the rage is over.
    Last edited by blkcat1028; 11-06-2011 at 02:51 PM.
    "You know how sometimes when you’re drifting off to sleep you feel that jolt, like you were falling and caught yourself at the last second? It’s nothing to be concerned about, it’s usually just the parasite adjusting its grip." -David Wong

  5. #45
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    14,425

    Default

    cant believe ppl are still debating this..

    Madfloyd has spoken guys.. Give up. Devs word > yours.

  6. #46
    Community Member Elaril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    Rage is an extremely powerful feature of the class. The drawback is that you can't think straight until the rage is over.
    Which isn't really a drawback in the game's current environment, especially considering MadFloyd's posts in this thread. I had hoped that this was WAI so that Barbs wouldn't be able to be fully raged for the entirety of quests, something that I have always thought is kind of silly and at least partially out of balance. I thought this was the dev's attempt to bring the class back into balance with other melee classes, but I was mistaken. Hopefully the devs intend on putting barbarian rage under review sometime in the near future to bring it more into line with other class features and its PnP roots, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
    Akori-Fighter Iroka-Sorcerer Censured-Rogue Isilti-Cleric Tony-Sorcerer Duress-Cleric Elaril-Fighter Avatard-Fighter Mitigation-Paladin Loose-Bard Shiken-Fighter Unreasonably-Barbarian Jueh-Monk

  7. #47
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in North Carolina
    Posts
    730

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    cant believe ppl are still debating this..

    Madfloyd has spoken guys.. Give up. Devs word > yours.
    Not a debate, mate. Just expressing my point of view.
    "You know how sometimes when you’re drifting off to sleep you feel that jolt, like you were falling and caught yourself at the last second? It’s nothing to be concerned about, it’s usually just the parasite adjusting its grip." -David Wong

  8. #48
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sandy, UT
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    from a gameplay standpoint, I don't think it's fair to render barbarians so useless in the terms of using items. It's one thing that they can't use items that require a UMD check, it's another if they can't chug a remove curse pot while tanking a raid boss - or place a simple item on the ground to corral the kobolds.

    I can't speak for all the mechanics because honestly I haven't signed into llamania since before U11, but I would think barbs being able to use some abilities/items while raged would be better than none.

    Then again, I guess the simple solution now is to not run around 'permaraged'.
    Proud member of Renowned, Thelanis server.

  9. #49
    Community Member Sirea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,718

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Devs word > yours.
    You'd do well to remember that yourself, Mr. This-Content-Is-Ready-For-Live-No-Matter-What-The-Devs-Say *coughepicgiantholdcough*

  10. #50
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Rasczak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Collecting Soul Stones
    Posts
    2,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    Really? There's a reason that rage(Barbarian or Madstone) blocks a normal curse pot but not a guild curse pot? Please, I'd love to hear your explanation of that. It is a years-old bug (From long before guild shops existed) that rage didn't allow the use of certain potions. It started when the potions were changed to allow them to be used on others. When they implemented the guild curse potions, they actually coded them correctly, but they never actually fixed the bugs in the original potions. Also, please give me other examples of items that behave differently depending on whether they are from a guild versus non-guild shop. Do Heal scrolls heal more? Do spells have a higher caster level?

    As for BTC, have you ever seen an object that is BTC behave differently than the same object when it was unbound? Again, from a programming standpoint, the objects should be the same, with only a flag to determine if they are bound or not.(A little more to it, since there are different types of binding, but the idea is the same) If you have two separate objects, one for bound and one for unbound, then you have just doubled the time it takes to make any modifications. Not only do you have to modify both objects, but you also have to test each one separately. That makes no sense from any perspective.

    Of course you have to distinguish between potions, scrolls, wands, and clickies. That's why there are rules for each of those individually. However, this discussion concerns only potions. The point is not the Remove Curse effect itself, but the mechanics behind the use of potions. The other items are not relevant to this discussion.

    Your Strength discussion is also pointless, since you are focusing only on the effect, not on the mechanics by which they are applied. Do potions of Bull's Strength work differently if you buy them in the guild shop instead of from a regular vendor? Again, the potion mechanics are the issue, not the effect.

    Games ARE applications. As with any other application, the exact method of development will be determined by the particular environment and existing base. Often, things that aren't considered "best practices" have to be utilized in order to make it work. That doesn't mean those things should become the standard MO.

    Again, I'd love to hear your reason for why the mechanics of a potion are different for guild potions and regular store potions.
    I said the effect is the same but the implementation is different. It is why you can drink a pot on any character but not use the scroll. You need to distinguish between a guild pot and a regular hence making them different objects. The effect is the same across the board but the object sitting in your inv should not be. I said nothing about the effects behaving differently. For example, guild pot you drink (in animation), the normal one is a cast effect. Whether WAI or not I don't care, my point was they are different. Next you going to say a belt of remove curse and a goggle of remove curse are the same object? Remove Curse is Remove curse. Implementation was my point and that the objects should be different. The reason you can use a guild pot while raged and not a normal is because of how they are treated.

    Personally I don't believe a potion should be acting differently whether guild or not and based on rules I don't believe you should be able to use them while raged. My original point however was that they should be different objects. I didn't say the mechanics of the object should be different. They should have different display graphics as well.

    Your original point was that is bad form to make them all different objects. I disagreed and gave my reasons why. You have now gone off on a tangent.


    But I've derailed enough and I'm not arguing semantics. You do your thing. I'll keep doing mine.
    Last edited by Rasczak; 11-07-2011 at 01:37 AM.
    Don't let common sense stop you...
    Qualified Devil's Advocate ` Refugee Boldrei '06 / Keeper '09

  11. #51
    The Hatchery BrightAsh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franke View Post
    Okay,let me see if I've got this right . . .a barbarian is raging and running around in Crystal Cove where there are plenty of enemies to fight. You think he should be able to place the torches at set distances to lead a team of miners to mine rare minerals for you,while communicating with team-mates who are scouting out the most lucrative routes?
    Added to that, you argue that dropping barrels along the route in the most opportune locations is also a reasonable action for someone who is only interested in finding a foe to tear apart?

    I would argue that a raging barb would drop their entire stack of torches and barrels at the first sight of an enemy and do what they do best.
    Made me chuckle
    They should not undo the rage=spell thingie, they should expand it

    Would be kind of a pain to solo something, so /notsigning my own statement

    still... would be fun
    Thelanis: Botar, Klogar, Saludar, Shantarr, Karygon

  12. #52
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Thats not his job.

    Thats QAs job.. Who seems to be doing a 'wonderful' job lately. And by 'wonderful', i mean .. Well ive got enough infraction points.
    I disagree, I do development as well and part of a developer's job is to fix bugs he is aware of, and part of programming is testing your own code to find obvious bugs. Sometimes it is relatively simple to test for something, depending on the setup, and sometimes it isn't. The devs have mentioned before that they have personal servers and the versions of the game on them are 'miles ahead' of what we are seeing. I would think that they have full builds of the version that they are working on so that when they do a bit of coding they can test that coding, otherwise it would be extremely inefficient.

    All I am saying here is that if the bug is there in the version on his desktop, it is probably also there in all older versions.

    I am not saying that he could/should fix it immediately. Just that if it was me AND I had a version of the game sitting on my desk I would jump in and check really quick. But that's just me.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  13. #53
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    14,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirea View Post
    You'd do well to remember that yourself, Mr. This-Content-Is-Ready-For-Live-No-Matter-What-The-Devs-Say *coughepicgiantholdcough*
    That wasn't simply words.

    I posted many screenshots and other evidence of that fact. There's also the fact 404 and kookie spawn the epic tor bosses nearly every dev event, and they all function quite well. And the fact all the epic tor loot shows up in the compendium.

    Everything here are simply words. Words going against obvious facts again.

    Fact:
    Crystal cove torches were bugged to not work while raged.
    Fact:
    Madfloyd fixed this. (for bbn rage, tho had problem fixing it for madstone rage)
    Fact:
    New challenge items suffer the same bug.
    Fact:
    Madfloyd is aware of this.

    Nothing more need to be said.
    Last edited by Shade; 11-07-2011 at 02:30 PM.

  14. #54
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    gamertown usa
    Posts
    6,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    who's argueing here? I was pointing out that you are making a very bold, incorrect statement about something you know absolutely nothing about. Someone of your reputation should know better than to do that.

    Recycling code is common practice - however, copying and pasting to fix an issue is completely different than recycling an object (class).

    As a matter of fact, it is much more accurate to say the issues with rage is most likely caused by a sloppy copy and paste job to begin with.

    I'm also confused at why you contradict yourself: you are saying in order to fix the issue a copy-paste is needed, and then turn around and say that your solution is also the cause of all the problems?

    I'm not argueing with you - I'm flat out saying that the problem is more complex than a simple 15-minute copy-paste job.
    Bolded the important part. It really makes you wonder how the game is coded, doesn't it?

  15. #55
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    Posts
    5,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasczak View Post
    I said the effect is the same but the implementation is different. It is why you can drink a pot on any character but not use the scroll. You need to distinguish between a guild pot and a regular hence making them different objects. The effect is the same across the board but the object sitting in your inv should not be. I said nothing about the effects behaving differently. For example, guild pot you drink (in animation), the normal one is a cast effect. Whether WAI or not I don't care, my point was they are different. Next you going to say a belt of remove curse and a goggle of remove curse are the same object? Remove Curse is Remove curse. Implementation was my point and that the objects should be different. The reason you can use a guild pot while raged and not a normal is because of how they are treated.
    You accuse me of going off on tangents(Even though I was responding to your statements and did not bring up any new subjects), but that is your entire argument. Scrolls are not an issue. My statement was that guild potions should not be treated differently than regular potions. You stated they were different for a reason. I asked you what reason. You did not give an answer to that question. You only stated the obvious, that they are different because of X. Again, why are potions treated differently? Oddly enough, in you question about a belt of Remove Curse and goggles of Remove Curse, you make my point for me. Yes, a belt and goggles are different. However, in both cases, the mechanics of the Remove Curse are identical. Imagine that, a clicky works the same no matter what item it is placed on. Now please give me an instance of two different belts of Remove Curse that behave differently depending on the source of the item. That would be an appropriate counter to my statements. Instead, you insist on bringing up tangents, such as different types of items and different base items. When it comes to potions, which are the same base item, the behavior is different. Instead of making unsubstantiated statements such as "...objects should be different.", please explain to me why there should be two different objects for "Potion of Remove Curse" that behave differently. You stated there was a reason. I'd like to hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasczak View Post
    Personally I don't believe a potion should be acting differently whether guild or not and based on rules I don't believe you should be able to use them while raged. My original point however was that they should be different objects. I didn't say the mechanics of the object should be different. They should have different display graphics as well.

    Your original point was that is bad form to make them all different objects. I disagreed and gave my reasons why. You have now gone off on a tangent.
    I tend to stick with the PnP rules where possible, and those do allow for potion use while raged. They actually specifically list what is not allowed, and everything else is presumed to be allowed.(DM's discretion, of course, within limits) Again, you stated your point, but you have not elaborated on any logical reasons for that point. I stated my reasoning for why they should be the same argument. All I'd like you to do is present the same support for your statements, without tangents about scrolls, wands, belts, goggles, etc. You say it is not bad form to make them all different objects. All I'd like is for you to answer why you believe it is not bad form to have two objects that should be identical actually be different objects under the hood.(Not different instances of the same object, with varying parameters, but entirely different objects)
    Freeman - Human Bard - Thelanis Fulfilling my duty to the ladies of Stormreach
    Yuvben(Halfling Rogue), Acana(Drow Sorcerer), Walket(Human Cleric), Mahoukami (WF Wizard), Knicapper(Horc Fighter), Pyetr(Human Bard), Mazinger (WF Barb), and Belcar(Halfling Ranger).

  16. #56
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sandy, UT
    Posts
    2,486

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
    <snip wall of text argument>
    Silly programmers. This is why it's so hard to debate things - your not even arguing on the same issue.

    Rasc is talking about a remove curse pot being a different object than a guild remove curse pot. You are talking about the remove curse effect itself. implementation semantics aside, your not even arguing about the same mechanics.

    That is why rasc says you are going off on a tangent (pointing out something entirely different), and that is why you accuse rasc of being off on a tangent.

    Besides, rasc's point wasn't that remove curse is treated differently on different items. His point was "guild remove curse potion" is an entirely different object than "remove curse potion".

    err how do you say it, anyway? pointless arguing is pointless.
    Proud member of Renowned, Thelanis server.

  17. #57
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Yea crica 2006 DDO was a FAR more clean, debugged, stable and polished product then what we play today.

    I'd pay a ton to play that game again. It was a great game, too bad it got shut down.

    This new one we play now only vaguely resembles it. Has some of the same names and artwork, but everything else has changed, and not a lot of it for the better.
    You are fooling yourself.

  18. #58
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    4,896

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayham View Post
    All a little disappointing. An unraged barbarian is a...thug? A ruffian? A discontented peasant? Can't think of the word....
    A really ugly fighter.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload