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  1. #21
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    The fighter made several mistakes:

    First: Fighters (As well as most Melee) typically make Horrible Scouts in Crystal Cove. Since, to begin with,The Cove is not melee friendly at all, and a Scout needs to be highly self sufficient. IE:Wizards, WF Sorc, FvS, Clerics, Rogues (With high UMD), Bards, Etc. Someone that can nomrally take care of things on their own.

    If the fighter needs a heal-bot to follow them around, that deprives the other 4 members of the group of healing. Which is not a good group make up or a good call for the fighter to do.

    If the Fighter needs the healing and has zero self sufficiency, then the Fighter and the Healer should hold center, that way the rest of the group knows where to run if they need heal and back up fighting.

    Second: The fighter needs to learn about Raidiant Servant Aura. Stay near the Cleric. Fight with the cleric, get healed at the same time. Also makes things easy for RS burst to heal. If the fighter is not going to stay with you, that is their choice. But it is a bad choice.

    Last: There is nothing wrong with mixing it up, but, the party needs you to heal them, and that is a big role to fill. Anyone knucklehead can want to get into melee, so that is not a role needed. But not every class can heal effectively as a cleric. Keep that in mind, as you play in a group. You are the best healer so they will look to you to provide it.

    And remember.. it is a game.

    Have Fun!

  2. #22
    Community Member twiliteslayer02's Avatar
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    Spent My Cleric's whole first life as a healbot, actually over two years of being a healbot and a half year of it collecting dust(was actually my only abbott flagged toon for a long long time too)

    Made a Hybrid wf fvs, and fell in love with the soloability of it. but found that I needed a bit more to be epic viable as healer primary(personal thing)

    TR'd her(my original healer) to clonk, and at level 6 with around a dc of 30 give or take on my stunning fist, and the ability to evade almost anything so far... I gotta say its I'm in love.

    A buddy of mine has been tanking elite VoD's with his and soloing skllie runs ever since I can remember, and pretty sure he's still attempting to get the sulu tank spot in ToD as well.

    Not ever made for high dps, but you dont need high dps if you cant be killed.

    Tell those squishy meat shields to drink a pot!, yoiull be there soon enuf just gotta clean up what he/she ran from.
    Rageforged

  3. #23
    Community Member jaegarnel's Avatar
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    You can perfectly well use a non-self healing melee to scout. They just need to have high enough hp to survive a fight on their own and run back to the healer.

    Sure, it's less efficient than getting yet another self-healing caster in the group, but I've had a barbarian scout in most of my CC groups, and it was no problem for him to run back to my cleric who was usually guarding the center or patrolling the line whenever he needed a heal.

    He didn't die much more than the sorc who could use heal scrolls, even on Cove lvl 25. 700+ hp is survivability too.

  4. #24
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    One problem i see is he was scouting? You should use self sufficient people to scout.
    Team scouting/clearing works, if the cleric knows he's assigned to the scout group. It's better to have an arcane just burn down the dungeon while the torches get set, but it's not necessary.

    Biggest problem I see here is that there appears to be no communication or leadership in the group. OP is in the tavern recharging clickies, and the rest of the group just starts. They do this even though they have non selfhealing toons in there group, so we know they effectively started with no more than 4.

    Then a fighter runs off and starts scouting on his own. I've seen this a lot this iteration of the Cove. Must be a bunch of new players running it, because everybody used to know how to run it. It's not like you can run more than 2 completions an opening anyway. Just wait a couple minutes and get organized.

  5. #25
    Community Member rjbutchko's Avatar
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    Except in raids, if Im playing my healer you might want to stay next to me. I melee (poorly) cast (moderately okay) and heal (very well.) I also target myself for mass heals. If I see your red bar going down, I assume you must be just outside my reach with masses so I will target you and throw a heal.

    If I toss a heal that comes back to heal me that tells me you are too far ahead of the group for me to bother with. I already just wasted mana and wont be wasting any more.

    Clerics are far more useful DPS than anyone who hasnt really dug their heals in and learned how to play one can understand. While Im never at the top of an epic kill list (EXCEPTION: epic Wiz King) Im also rarely at the bottom. If you're grouped with a cleric who isnt afraid to get a little bloody, dont whine. REJOICE!
    Dontbleed----Velvetelvis----Bleedout----Whatsina
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  6. #26
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    You should use self sufficient people.
    Fixed.

    If you're going to go off by yourself in the Cove doing ANYTHING (scouting, torch running, etc.) you need to be self sufficient. Most clerics are slow (mine sure as h*ll are) and with the WONDERFUL new UI, you can no longer tell who is who on the minimap, so you have absolutely no way of knowing where that fighter who's down to his last 5 HP is unless he happens to be within view.

    And "Why is our Cleric fighting?" - Maybe because everyone else is down at the bowling alley and you left him alone with Jack and 10 hobs in the center? Sigh...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  7. #27
    Community Member pseudomasochist's Avatar
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    How did other people in the party react? If they were ignoring the fighter, I might have proposed to recall and reform without him. If they were agreeing with him, that would've been a sign for me to find another party.

  8. #28
    Community Member xPhoxhoundx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    It's weird how melee fvs is ok but a splashed melee-capable cleric is that aberrant battle cleric.
    No it's not. People have just accepted those that roll FVS typically can't heal.
    Clerics are still the role models.

  9. #29
    Community Member gloopygloop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xPhoxhoundx View Post
    No it's not. People have just accepted those that roll FVS typically can't heal.
    Clerics are still the role models.
    I love these threads.

    "FvS that heal and fight are okay while people demand that Clerics act as nannybots" turns into "Everyone knows that FvS can't heal, so we just expect Clerics to do it right."

  10. #30
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodallec View Post
    Keep fighting! Don't be a healbot! Sounds like a sweet playstyle youve got.
    I second this motion. Fighter on Ramp = Fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  11. #31
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    I can see two sides to this argument.

    I've been in groups with my fighter/barb where the cleric expected everyone to stand in his aura until we were healed so he didn't have to "waste" his SP on healing. Not very efficient and I carry pots but chugging a pot for 35 hp while being hit for 50 is a war of attrition you aren't going to win. In the middle of a fight, melee needs a healer to focus on keeping them alive.

    I am more than happy to chug 30 pots between fights, but honestly, I'd rather short man it and bring in a healbot hireling if the "real" healer is only going to keep an aura going while he plays at being a melee. It's not really teamwork if your cleric expects you to follow him around getting 20-25 hp every 15 seconds while he focuses on whatever he feels like doing.

    On the other hand, while playing my healer, it is annoying when people refuse to EVER come stand in the aura to be topped off. Totally ignoring the ability to soak up some heals between fights really makes me want to not help them out as they take no interest in helping themselves out.

  12. #32
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    The way crystal cove is set up currently it is not friendly to players that require someone to heal them because they are unwilling to do that for themselves. The cove is best run by players with some degree of self sufficiency.

    That said, I don't take those classes on my runs. Simply because my experience has been that they waste time dying in remote corners of the map after running off. It becomes a big time waster in a timed event. It's frustrating for them, and it's frustrating for me. Better to save them the trouble and not bother taking them along.

  13. #33
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    That's where you were supposed to retort back:

    "Why is our 'Big Stupid Fighter' talking and not hitting stuff with his shiny metal stick?"

  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    1 invis x5 clicky = scout in the cove. The only things that see you are the named, and you can either kill those or drag them to the center to have them killed.

    I see ALOT of people using their self sufficient toons to farm the cove because its easier knowing everyone will run off to do their own thing and no one will die. Ive only grouped with a few fighters, and no barbarians yet, heh. Lots of arcane and divine casters. We did have a few melee groups, but those were all people we knew, who used the buddy system to keep melee alive.
    Last edited by Chai; 10-03-2011 at 09:29 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #35
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkzane View Post
    Lots of stuff
    Looks to me like you're doing everything right, to really get the most out of your capabilities Ok, so you wont be the highest DPS around, big deal.. some is better than none especially if you're casting, assisting with CC & DPS through stunning fist & keeping the party alive too - i have a battleclonk (includes 2 fighter levels too & is far more melee-centric than DC casting based) that i take much the same approach with...

    I'd advise if possible trying for a ToD ring or 2, that'll help boost your melee dps capabilities higher while also giving some other handy benefits.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  16. #36
    Community Member Zenako's Avatar
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    My cleric usually scouts in force, ie kills everything along the way. Usually just solos the loop to the East and then heads down the twisty ramp to the water. About then might need to use a shrine (20 cleric on 25CC). That lets everyone else cover the other sides. I quickly let the group know if we have a good purple drop or not. IF gem mining will be sure to toast all the undead. The undead side works best for her. A few aura ticks, bursts, and mass heal effects and the bucket of undead around her are gone. Rinse and repeat. (It just takes too long to pound them to pieces in a timed event, although I could.) (same thing works for arcane casters too.)

    Clerics should not hamper their power by limiting their roles to only a subset of their skill set. (I usually would toss a few mass buffs as we all zone in SR, Death Ward, Prot Elements, Aid, etc as I fire off the buff bar series) Then off to the races...
    Sarlona - Stormreach Requisition Company (SRC):Jareko-Elf Ranger12Rogue8; Hennako-Human Cleric20; Rukio-Human Paladin18; Taellya-Halfling Rogue16; Zenako-Dwarf Fighter10Cleric1; Daniko-Drow Bard20; Kerriganko-Human Cleric18; Buket-WF Fighter6; Xenophilia-Human Wiz20; Zenakotwo-Dwarf Cleric16; Yadnomko-Halfling Ftr12; Gabiko-Human Bard15;more

  17. #37
    Community Member krackythehoodedone's Avatar
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    Absolutely you are a better scout.

    18/2 or 17/3 Clonk can fight and be MORE effective at healing the party

    Because they bring their aura into the combat arena which lessens SP healing outlay.

    They wont grab aggro and have great AC/saves/hit points (or if they do grab aggro be Very worried about ur DPS toons)

    I expect ur Fighter doesnt realise you can hit Heal/Mass Heal with no chance of Spell Failure from combat just as easily as outside it.

    Most experienced players are well aware of Clonks abilities it is those that are not who will lose out.

    Part of this is to do with another problem all to often circulating the forums which is the Newer Player Vs Vets arguement.

    Whilst it is equaly important that the Vets embrace the newer players it is also important that our newer players recognise that a Tr in a top guild with a bucket load of Desert Epics and hundreds of Epic completions is probably worth his spot in your party even if his build looks a bit weird.

    I got declined on a Shroud a few days ago for not being able to melee a few minutes after tanking Horoth. And the offending PL went to great lengths to explain he knew my build and what was required to complete a Shroud run.?

    My only word of caution is that the Clonk player has to have a bit of experience too.

    Make sure you really know how to handle healing and fighting at the same time w/o detracting from your healing abilities. It isnt all that difficult but does require a bit of practise
    Last edited by krackythehoodedone; 10-03-2011 at 02:11 PM.

  18. #38
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    The OP is a better person than I am....

    I would have dropped party the moment he said "why is the cleric fighting"
    Cannith:
    Brigette; Warlock12/Monk3(14th life) || Aoeryn; Wiz20(3rd life).

  19. #39
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    As someone who plays a 19/1 cleric/fighter as his main toon, all of this sounds too familiar.

    Of course, whenever you jump into a group you are likely to be the best healer available, so you need to make sure you are doing your part there. However, healing and nannying are two very different things.

    That fighter who apparently had made no effort to be self sufficient didn't understand his place in the hierarchy of the group. Fighter depends upon cleric, cleric doesn't depend upon fighter. Fighter needs to follow where ever cleric decides to go, not the other way around.

    I see this same problem whenever Vale goes on sale. Unskilled melee goes into part 4 of Shroud and goes splat, while me and the rest of the party are still standing at the portal in part 3. "Where were my heals?" Um, the mini-map is there for a reason...

    I call this "cleric hireling" syndrome. I'm sure the problem existed to some degree before cleric hirelings became so widely used, but too many melee level using hirelings who follow them around, and make the mistake of believing this is how the game is always played.

    I solo a lot, and switch between melee, casting and healing fairly proficiently. If you see me meleeing or casting when I play in a group, its because I know the quest and just standing back and throwing heals would be quasi-piking. If I'm standing back and just throwing heals, there's a reason for that too. Far better for you to figure out how to play YOUR toon, instead of trying to tell me how to play mine.

  20. #40
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    "You can't heal stupid."

    This thread is Player's Exhibit #1, 357, 919 to support that truism.

    For myself, I don't mind focusing on healing but I do reserve the right to toss of a situationally-appropriate offensive spell now and again. In the context of DDO, I completely reject the term "healbot" because there is really no such thing. I have played other games in which the healing class was pretty much limited by game mechanics to being a healer (or healer/buffer)- DAoC and Albion's Cleric post-Smite nerf comes readily to mind- and know the difference. I enjoy DDO's Cleric's versatility.

    Now there is such a thing as a "nannybot", but I believe that term is a projection of some melees who aren't quite sure of their capabilities and want the safety net that a nearby healer-type provides. Shame on the melee for making those sorts of demands and double shame on the Cleric (or FvS) for indulging them.

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