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  1. #1
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Default Arcane Tank. Self healing.....

    I'm about to start my 4th life on one of my toons. I Plan on making an Arcane tank-type that is primarily a survivor. I'm not going to go into detail about my build but I'll give the basics....

    -18wiz/2monk Pale Master

    - Almost 700hp

    -42 Intelligence

    -Evasion with high 30s saves

    -Great turtle ability....Shield Mastery, Lorrik's, Docent of Defiance, Torc, Conc Ops, Lots of false life procs.



    The one issue and question I have with this design is the matter of self healing. Pale Master offers so much to this build but I've never played one. I'm not sure how well the auras and neg. energy burst will compare to reconstruct/heal. Will they be enough to out-heal raid boss damage? I'd love some input from experienced Pale Masters on this subject. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by CrankVulcan; 10-02-2011 at 07:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member EpiKagEMO's Avatar
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    Please tell me how you will obtain max int w/o drow. :3
    A rogue is basically, "Look at me or die."

  3. #3
    Community Member Mrmorphling's Avatar
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    With eardweller your aura will tick 30ish average with crits >70 and your NEB will do little less than 200 and 300+ on crits.

    Based from my experience it was enough to survive both normal Suulomades and second of EDA, for the last of EDA i needed an harm here and there but i do not have docent of defiance or shield master so i'm lacking quite a few DR points.

    I've never tried horoth as my HP are lowish (567) and metamagic sunburst hurts (we basically have 2 disi to worry about and both are fatal on a 1).

    I've never done on purpouse EChrono as i lack evasion but it happened some time and apart from red form it was quite easy to stay alive (it's very hard to build aggro fast enough)

    Main problem is mana managment, you can expect to use more then 800 sp/min (i dare say close to 1k if self healing only and no scroll here...) to keep up 2 dots and survive so you have about 3 minutes before starting chugging.

    Edeep demon was doable even if a bit luck based as double strike really hurt (120+ *2).

    MA MK2 no just kite .P

    EDIT: you can achieve max int (bracket) on both human and drow as, atm, drow ends up odd so human, being only one behind, can obtain same bracket.

  4. #4
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrmorphling View Post
    With eardweller your aura will tick 30ish average with crits >70 and your NEB will do little less than 200 and 300+ on crits.

    Based from my experience it was enough to survive both normal Suulomades and second of EDA, for the last of EDA i needed an harm here and there but i do not have docent of defiance or shield master so i'm lacking quite a few DR points.

    I've never tried horoth as my HP are lowish (567) and metamagic sunburst hurts (we basically have 2 disi to worry about and both are fatal on a 1).

    I've never done on purpouse EChrono as i lack evasion but it happened some time and apart from red form it was quite easy to stay alive (it's very hard to build aggro fast enough)

    Main problem is mana managment, you can expect to use more then 800 sp/min (i dare say close to 1k if self healing only and no scroll here...) to keep up 2 dots and survive so you have about 3 minutes before starting chugging.

    Edeep demon was doable even if a bit luck based as double strike really hurt (120+ *2).

    MA MK2 no just kite .P

    EDIT: you can achieve max int (bracket) on both human and drow as, atm, drow ends up odd so human, being only one behind, can obtain same bracket.
    Thank you very much for the information.

    When I said max intelligence, I meant that I didn't have to give up any int. to gain tanking ability. Max for a WF without capstone

    18base+5lvls+7item+3enh+3tome+3exeptional+2lich+1l itany=42

  5. #5
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankVulcan View Post
    Docent of Defiance
    There are other options besides this for a PM I think.

    Docent of Shadow, Robe of Shadow and Shroud of the Abbott all have Boon of Undeath which gives similar effective DR when stacked with something else and possibly have more desirable secondary attributes. Additionally, these open up the possibility to be human for a higher int bracket and an extra feat (at the cost of ~30 hp).

  6. #6
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    There are other options besides this for a PM I think.

    Docent of Shadow, Robe of Shadow and Shroud of the Abbott all have Boon of Undeath which gives similar effective DR when stacked with something else and possibly have more desirable secondary attributes. Additionally, these open up the possibility to be human for a higher int bracket and an extra feat (at the cost of ~30 hp).
    The items you mention give around 7 hp back per hit correct? This plus Stoneskin would be almost as good as a DoD.
    If I was able to get the shroud, It could be an interesting change that I might look into.


    This character is not built to be a Maxed out caster.....He'll be able to pass as a CC'r and an insta-killer but he won't be optimum.... I'm building him to be a Tank/Soloer. The loss of HP is annoying and the fact that I can't self heal out of stance is also. I like the idea of being able to drop out of stance for quests like Let Sleeping Dust Lie. Warforged is not an absolute must but for a build like this one....I can't see the advantage of going human. I'd have to find a +4 tome to make the extra human Intelligence mean something.

  7. #7
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankVulcan View Post
    The items you mention give around 7 hp back per hit correct? This plus Stoneskin would be almost as good as a DoD.
    If I was able to get the shroud, It could be an interesting change that I might look into.


    This character is not built to be a Maxed out caster.....He'll be able to pass as a CC'r and an insta-killer but he won't be optimum.... I'm building him to be a Tank/Soloer. The loss of HP is annoying and the fact that I can't self heal out of stance is also. I like the idea of being able to drop out of stance for quests like Let Sleeping Dust Lie. Warforged is not an absolute must but for a build like this one....I can't see the advantage of going human. I'd have to find a +4 tome to make the extra human Intelligence mean something.
    I think it depends on your feats. When I looked into the build I found the feats to be quite tight.

    Incidently, why monk and not fighter or pure? If you went human you could go pure and have the same feats (I think) for a possible +2 DC over WF. Fighter on the other hand gives free shield proficiency (which is a prereq of shield mastery I think).

    Out of curiosity, what feats are you planning on?

  8. #8
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    It's all feats - if your prime goal is survivability, Wraith Form is better than Lich. That said - Wizard 20 PM 100% Lich is also awefully strong.


    Wizard (4): Heighten, Quicken, Empower, Maximize
    Monk (2): Toughness ... Toughness or a save booster or something
    Normal (7): Shield Proficiency, Shield Mastery, SF Necro, GSF Necro, Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen, Insightful Reflexes

    No Extend, which is unfortunate. Mental Toughness would be nice for Wraith form.

    The best way to make this work is to be able to drop the Spell Penetration and instead have multiple Wizard and/or FVS past lives to slot in other feats you want.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  9. #9
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post

    Out of curiosity, what feats are you planning on?
    1 Extend
    2 SF necro
    3 GSF necro
    4 Spell pen
    5 Insightful reflexes
    6 Shield proficiency
    7 Shield Mastery

    1w Maximize
    2w Empower
    3w Heighten
    4w Quicken

    1m Toughness
    2m Toughness

  10. #10
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankVulcan View Post
    1 Extend
    2 SF necro
    3 GSF necro
    4 Spell pen
    5 Insightful reflexes
    6 Shield proficiency
    7 Shield Mastery

    1w Maximize
    2w Empower
    3w Heighten
    4w Quicken

    1m Toughness
    2m Toughness
    I don't see mental toughness. Reducing incoming damage by 25% in wraith form is one of the most important options for a tank build, isn't it?

  11. #11
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I don't see mental toughness. Reducing incoming damage by 25% in wraith form is one of the most important options for a tank build, isn't it?
    Yeah I didn't consider it. I don't know if my Torc/Conc ops would proc enough...Maybe something like epic demon queen where you get hit a lot regardless.

  12. #12
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post

    Incidently, why monk and not fighter or pure?
    Evasion and 2 toughness feats

  13. #13
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankVulcan View Post
    Evasion and 2 toughness feats
    Yeah, I realised this later. Still, I think any of the 3 options are viable.

    2 Fighter: 11 HP behind the monk option (after fighter toughness I and better hit die) but up 1 feat (mental toughness perhaps). Intimidate as a class skill.

    2 Monk: Double toughness, tortoise philosophy gives extra HP and evasion.

    Pure: Same feats as the monk option but with better DC/Spell Pen/SP etc

    For me it would come down to past lives (with 3x wiz it doesn't hurt to splash 2 levels and not take any spell pen feats), race choice (human, helf and WF are all viable), gear and purpose.

  14. #14
    Community Member Oran_Lathor's Avatar
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    I have tanked horoth on a geared out 18/2 wiz/monk, and it was easy--although you do need a harmer.

    From my (somewhat extensive) experience, wraith is never worth it over lich. The 40 extra HP, better fort saves, better reflex saves (via insightful), and temp hp procs are more valuable than the 25% incorp. This is especially true with a torc and con. op. running for sp regen (and a few more temp hp.).

    my 2 cents.

  15. #15
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oran_Lathor View Post
    I have tanked horoth on a geared out 18/2 wiz/monk, and it was easy--although you do need a harmer.

    From my (somewhat extensive) experience, wraith is never worth it over lich. The 40 extra HP, better fort saves, better reflex saves (via insightful), and temp hp procs are more valuable than the 25% incorp. This is especially true with a torc and con. op. running for sp regen (and a few more temp hp.).

    my 2 cents.
    I'm more interested in tanking without an outside source of healing. Is that impossible on a PM? Like I said I have no experience with them...

  16. #16
    Community Member Mrmorphling's Avatar
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    Well, imho, expecting to self heal under Horoth is a bit harsh (even not rolling 1s on burst/disi).

    Let put out some numbers

    Death aura you can expect 30hp/2s so 15hps
    NEB you can expect an average of 200hp/4s so 50 hps (even if by spamming it our SP drain is skyrocketing)

    So you have approx 75hps on top of your passive DR and hp proc that you can estimate based on your build - gear choices.

    I do not know exact horoth DPS but i suspect we are still a bit low with all badges running.

  17. #17
    Community Member CrankVulcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrmorphling View Post
    Well, imho, expecting to self heal under Horoth is a bit harsh (even not rolling 1s on burst/disi).

    Let put out some numbers

    Death aura you can expect 30hp/2s so 15hps
    NEB you can expect an average of 200hp/4s so 50 hps (even if by spamming it our SP drain is skyrocketing)

    So you have approx 75hps on top of your passive DR and hp proc that you can estimate based on your build - gear choices.

    I do not know exact horoth DPS but i suspect we are still a bit low with all badges running.
    Interesting.....Thanks for working the numbers


    As far as my defense is concerned...

    Shield blocking=(BaB/2)+2+Shield Rating

    In my case that equals 22

    22+20docent of defiance=42

    Shield mastery Scales with damage dealt so lets assume Horoth is hitting for 90.

    90 x .15≈13

    ---My Blocking DR against Horoth should be around 55. More if he hits harder.

    Divine Power clickies will raise my base attack bonus by 10 which means 5 more blocking DR

    ≈60 Blocking DR


    That means I'll end up taking around 30 damage from him/swing.
    Last edited by CrankVulcan; 10-03-2011 at 05:25 PM.

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