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  1. #1
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Default elite Schemes and DA

    I was in a good group doing Schemes of the Enemy over the weekend it was quite fun, however it seems like dungeon alert is is a bit extreme during the endfight beating down the cannon. After less than 60 seconds of puppies spawning we would hit the red level, then kill down the dogs to green and in less than 60 seconds again red dungeon alert.

    I understand that part of the quest is killing the ever spawning puppies but in my opinion using red dungeon alert to enforce this is a very bad way of dealing with the enforcement. Getting harried or being unable to hit the cannon etc.. due to red alert is not a good game mechanic nor is it fun to deal with... Certainly you could find other ways to enforce a maximum number of aggro'd puppies without having to go directly to red alert. Simply having a forcefield on the cannon at a certain number would be more than sufficient.

    I would be curious as to other people's experience with the quest endfight on elite... T
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  2. #2
    Community Member Esserbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NXPlasmid View Post
    I would be curious as to other people's experience with the quest endfight on elite...
    Too many damn dogs, too much teleporting. Fewer but stronger dogs (so it doesn't balloon up the DA) and less teleporting or at least ramps leading to the central platform from either side would make it much less frustrating

  3. #3
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esserbe View Post
    Too many damn dogs, too much teleporting. Fewer but stronger dogs (so it doesn't balloon up the DA) and less teleporting or at least ramps leading to the central platform from either side would make it much less frustrating
    Exactly, it would be nice to see this get some attention as overall its a fun quest that sucks at the end...
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  4. #4
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    DA shouldn't be a cause to nerf quests.

    DAs purpose is to dis-courage zerging by a ton of monsters you never intend to kill, and eventually bypass.. to reduce server load.

    So in locked-in boss rooms such as this.. It shouldn't even apply. It's not reducing server load as the mobs are agro'd no matter what, and you killing them isnt reducing it either as they respawn near- instantly.. The obvious and correct solution would be to disable DA, in the boss fight room only.

    I get the teleporting slows the fight and make its take annoyingly long in low DPS groups, but ultimately thats the way of elite..

    On lamannia the boss had so little hp we DPS'd him down in 20 seconds and the teleporting was a joke.. The current HP are enough to make you really want to have a uber rog to disable him, which is good.

    The only issue I have with the fight, is the non-rogue disable option - the puzzle.. Is essentially impossible on elite. Even a 50+ reflec monk could not complete it it deals so much dmg and has such a high save DC.

    That and the puzzle takes ~60-90 secondsmin even if your pro at it, and only disables him for 20 seconds.. I'd like to see the puzzle cut down to 3 sets of wheels (9 total) and have the trap move in a slow alternating patern, so you have say ~20 seconds to do a set of wheels unharmed, then the trap moves and you have to do the next one.

    That and no - random puzzle resetting, along with disabling the boss 45 seconds (for both puzzle or trapbox method), and setting him to helpless mode (+50% dmg).. Will really encourage people to do the puzzle on elite, which atm EVERYONE skips, and those who try are wasting there time.

    Last time I even got a good rog to do the trap even, first one he disabled while we ran up to the boss, and he was back alive by the time we even got there.. So was usless. 2nd box was clearly in the traps area so he could not disable it.

  5. #5
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    I know when I did that quest alone on Elite (as a glutton for punishment and insanity) it got to the point where there were so many iron defenders trying to path to attack me that all of them couldn't compute a path fast enough. They just stood still so long as I moved every now and then. It was both humorous and boggling that they allowed that many Iron Defenders out into the fray for that encounter.
    Server - Thelanis
    Diaries of a True Reincarnate (Wizard, Sorcerer, Melee, Divine, Artificer, Druid)

  6. #6
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Excellent points! Shade, I agree that there isn't a difficulty problem so no need to nerf. Hopefully some of these ideas will get incorporated, doesn't seem like it should be too tough, especially simply disabling DA for the endfight. T
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  7. #7
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCow View Post
    I know when I did that quest alone on Elite (as a glutton for punishment and insanity) it got to the point where there were so many iron defenders trying to path to attack me that all of them couldn't compute a path fast enough. They just stood still so long as I moved every now and then. It was both humorous and boggling that they allowed that many Iron Defenders out into the fray for that encounter.
    lol.. I think i told them to put MORE in after my first couple elite runs on lamannia. I can tell they took many of my suggestions on the last update of the quest.. Tho dogs im not sure, hard to count past a gizillion.

    Now solo the -attack the door - optional if your a REAL glutton for punishment =)

  8. #8
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    The current HP are enough to make you really want to have a uber rog to disable him, which is good.
    Meh. I've brought my Rogue in for multiple runs now, including Elite.

    Looking back at it, I think I would have been better off scroll-healing people. The room is absolutely huge, and the box can be on ground floor or second floor - one time I did it, it was all the way up beside the control panel that starts to fight.

    Furthermore, my Rogue in Sneak mode and using an Invis clicky somehow has more aggro of the cannon when it teleports than anyone else, including:

    Casters DoTing it.
    Melees hitting it.
    Hirelings.
    Summoned Monsters.
    Things directly beside it, when I'm clear on the other side of the room.
    --Even if I haven't hit it once, at all.

    I can't explain the amount of frustration I experience with this, and that's with Haste, and sufficient Search/Spot/Disable to flawlessly locate these boxes.

    The Spot/Search radius on these boxes need to be at the very least doubled before I'd consider the "Rogue" option worthwhile - and of course for the Cannon to display appropriate aggro mechanics, and attack the thing nearest to him and visible, instead of the thing clear across the room that is Invised + Sneaked up.

  9. #9
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Meh. I've brought my Rogue in for multiple runs now, including Elite.

    Looking back at it, I think I would have been better off scroll-healing people. The room is absolutely huge, and the box can be on ground floor or second floor - one time I did it, it was all the way up beside the control panel that starts to fight.
    Yea what u quoted doesn't really work out of context.. tho i coulda worded it better too.

    I meant - IF - they did what i suggest - 45 second disable instead of the current ~10-15, then yea rogue to disable would be great.. Just wait tell melees are in range before you do so.

    As is, yea.. rogues are great for the earlier lock to skip the puzzle (DCs high enough that it cant be knocked, or done by average splash rog), but not much else.

  10. #10
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    Yea what u quoted doesn't really work out of context.. tho i coulda worded it better too.

    I meant - IF - they did what i suggest - 45 second disable instead of the current ~10-15, then yea rogue to disable would be great.. Just wait tell melees are in range before you do so.

    As is, yea.. rogues are great for the earlier lock to skip the puzzle (DCs high enough that it cant be knocked, or done by average splash rog), but not much else.
    Well, I wouldn't go that far. If a rogue has bluff, and no one has Diplo, that's two more chests.

    But I get what you're saying now - and yeah. *Something* needs to change with rogues in that last room.

  11. #11
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Well, I wouldn't go that far. If a rogue has bluff, and no one has Diplo, that's two more chests.

    But I get what you're saying now - and yeah. *Something* needs to change with rogues in that last room.
    whats the bluff DC?

    We tried ~50, fail.. no rogues ive taken so far, and ive done a lot have had enough. Diplo DC is 63 on the cannith guy.. 64 fails on the bladesowrn - but we had a WF FvS, they get a special option saying they are a higher ranking luitenant of the bladesworn.

  12. #12
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    whats the bluff DC?

    We tried ~50, fail.. no rogues ive taken so far, and ive done a lot have had enough. Diplo DC is 63 on the cannith guy.. 64 fails on the bladesowrn - but we had a WF FvS, they get a special option saying they are a higher ranking luitenant of the bladesworn.
    Pretty sure the DC varies according to difficulty. 50ish Bluff worked for Normal. I think - I'll get back to you on that. I know it was at least 23 Ranks + 11 Ring of Lies +4 Charisma 18 +4 GH + 6 Assassin, so at least 48. I'm sure I'm missing something fancy in there, though.
    Last edited by TheDearLeader; 09-19-2011 at 10:50 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member thandros's Avatar
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    beat it on elite Today
    Monk
    Rogue
    Ranger Arcane Archer
    Sorc
    Wizard
    Fvs
    Monk and rogue mainly snuck or invised and killed power crystals with some occasional dps on the cannon.
    2 Casters mainly just fire walled dogs like crazy to keep da down.
    Fvs healing the AA who had agro most of the time. took like 15 minutes on the boss and like 1-2 pots per caster.
    Wasn't worth the damage to try and do the puzzle below. since that area was always Full of dogs.
    Over all a very long boring mana intensive fight.
    imho best for this fight would be
    3-4 arcane archers.
    1-2 Arcane casters
    1 healer.
    upside it completion on Elite spawns 7 chests.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery toaf's Avatar
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    ive done it like 4 times on elite. ya dogs are CrAzY, but just keep running, and the cannon teleport thing... wayy nasty but it is elite. would hate to see epic, good groups most of the time. 9 pot 3 pot 4 pot kinda runs. allways goes faster with AA ranger
    i find myself and others saying "glad im not paying for this ****" vip from ftp beta till 10.9.2012 fix it...fix it Now!

  15. #15
    Community Member jaegarnel's Avatar
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    I did it on elite on my cleric, it took an awfully long time. Being at yellow or orange DA for most of the fight didn't help either.

    It was still an interesting fight, though, I like the fact that it takes some player skill to locate the boss, move to it fast enough and dodge his big sonic damage shots, instead of just turning autoattack on.

    The boss fight only gives 3 chests on elite though, the other 4 were probably from both lieutenant optionals.


    I have a question though, how do you actually manage to beat the fight the door defenses optional? I've been in two groups where some people ignored my warnings that beating on it was a pretty bad idea, and we wiped pretty much instantly. Any tactics that work well?
    Last edited by jaegarnel; 09-19-2011 at 11:04 PM.

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