Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 44
  1. #21
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,614

    Default

    Before, eChrono was geared more toward the top 15% of capped melees (though a weaker melee could be pulled through since their loss wasn't as noticeable), top 15-20% of capped divines, and top 5-10% of capped casters (due to the harder CC and Spell Pen requirements).

    Now, it seems like it's more geared toward the top 10% of capped melees, top 10% of capped divines, and top 5% of capped casters. It requires more SP conservation, which a lot of newer players haven't had a chance to learn. Healers at least can use scrolls to supplement their SP. Casters have to really be careful with their SP to make sure the CC lasts long enough. It also requires melees to contribute more and not do stupid things like take aggro off the tank, bust ice shards, stay with the group, and actually pay attention (no more setting auto-attack on and wandering off AFK).

    While it's a good thing that underequipped players can't be drug through to completions, it also means that it is much harder to "get your foot in the door". What runs do happen generally are private/guild/channel runs, which are by nature exclusive. If you're not already in the "inner circle", it's highly unlikely that you will get to run a successful eChrono. Very few successful PUG's happen anymore, at least on Sarlona.

  2. #22

    Default

    My biggest pet peve is all the people saying its easy after U11 that are doin ONLY guild raids or Channel runs. Try taking the first 12 ppl that hit a lfm without using myddo ect. I understand epic should* be epic but not all players in the game are or ever will be *EPIC*. I play a fvs that enjoyed taking anyone into raids whenever possible and running raids at off peak hours where there isn't that much choice. Now unfortunatly soon it will have to be only primetime* channel only raids? I rather not raid then have to kick ppl from group for not being UBER enough to make the grade. Heck even with half or more of the group being above average this raid is now a resource drain on any1 with a blue bar.

  3. #23
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3,837

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelz_Fire View Post
    I understand epic should* be epic but not all players in the game are or ever will be *EPIC*.
    That's why there is normal.

  4. #24
    Community Member aarant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freekay View Post
    Why do people like to throw around the term 'Elitist' so much? What exactly is an 'Elitist' in DDO? As I see it:
    1. Quests were made to be beaten
    2. Gear was made to be acquired
    3. Epic was meant to challenge THE BEST OF THE BEST.

    So by virtue of me being able to beat quests, acquire gear and run epics, I am apparently an Elitist now? If this is the case, then by your logic, I should never leave Korthos Island, my toon should permanently have 0 gear and I shouldn't even bother questing. Because if, heavens forbid, I complete a quest, I'd be on my way to become an Elitist *shock horror*

    Sounds like tall poppy syndrome to me - "Onoes, that guy over there is better than me, because he took the time to learn the game and get the gear. He now doesn't struggle as much as ME in end-game and epics. He's such an Elitist..."
    If u had wings u wouldnt need gear

  5. #25
    Community Member aarant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    Your full of it.
    yes incitefull logic u really picked his argument apart there ought to go out for a debate team

  6. #26
    Community Member freekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    Your full of it.
    Hit a raw nerve did I? If you disagree with me, please by all means, reason it out. Name-calling and slander suggests to me that you haven't really thought out you reasons for disliking players who are better than you. Also, it's a violation of forum rules too, doncha know?

    Soaked/Soaking/Zecks/Zeckshealer - Cannith
    Soaked's build

  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoi View Post
    This thread should be titled "EChrono - not that bad for hardcore elitist players"
    To be fair, this guy ^^ has a very valid point.

    The OP IS an elitist SOB.




    Except when he's on his travesty of a cleric, then it's auto-boot from any group he joins.

  8. #28
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    NJ/Ghallanda
    Posts
    9,752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelz_Fire View Post
    My biggest pet peve is all the people saying its easy after U11 that are doin ONLY guild raids or Channel runs. Try taking the first 12 ppl that hit a lfm without using myddo ect. I understand epic should* be epic but not all players in the game are or ever will be *EPIC*. I play a fvs that enjoyed taking anyone into raids whenever possible and running raids at off peak hours where there isn't that much choice. Now unfortunatly soon it will have to be only primetime* channel only raids? I rather not raid then have to kick ppl from group for not being UBER enough to make the grade. Heck even with half or more of the group being above average this raid is now a resource drain on any1 with a blue bar.
    Philisophical question: Should "all" players be capable of doing the "hardest" stuff in the game?

    If the game is too easy people will eventually get bored and move on. many people need a new challenge to stay motivated. Though I agree the HP/Fort inflation was a stupid way to do this and I'll miss being able to pug much of this content I understand why Turbine did what it did.

    In the OP I should have said "Not that bad . . . compared to Elite Tower."

  9. #29
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    NJ/Ghallanda
    Posts
    9,752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mute_mayhem View Post
    To be fair, this guy ^^ has a very valid point.

    The OP IS an elitist SOB.




    Except when he's on his travesty of a cleric, then it's auto-boot from any group he joins.
    If my cleric can hjeal something ANYONE can

  10. #30
    Community Member aarant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Before, eChrono was geared more toward the top 15% of capped melees (though a weaker melee could be pulled through since their loss wasn't as noticeable), top 15-20% of capped divines, and top 5-10% of capped casters (due to the harder CC and Spell Pen requirements).

    Now, it seems like it's more geared toward the top 10% of capped melees, top 10% of capped divines, and top 5% of capped casters. It requires more SP conservation, which a lot of newer players haven't had a chance to learn. Healers at least can use scrolls to supplement their SP. Casters have to really be careful with their SP to make sure the CC lasts long enough. It also requires melees to contribute more and not do stupid things like take aggro off the tank, bust ice shards, stay with the group, and actually pay attention (no more setting auto-attack on and wandering off AFK).

    While it's a good thing that underequipped players can't be drug through to completions, it also means that it is much harder to "get your foot in the door". What runs do happen generally are private/guild/channel runs, which are by nature exclusive. If you're not already in the "inner circle", it's highly unlikely that you will get to run a successful eChrono. Very few successful PUG's happen anymore, at least on Sarlona.
    ive solo cast this raid several times since the update i have a first life wizzy its a pain but it can be done spell pen is fairly high think i need to roll a 2 or lower to fail a tred wizzie would 0 problems with spell pen 42 enchant dc thats not to crazy if ur enchant focused am which im not easily reachable though if u go enchant ur main school drop dd's through out the fight if u have to so the divines can rotate out and grab shrines u saved, u did save at least 1 shrine each right? alls this requires is a bit of leadership and a bit of screening on noes theres that bad word "screening" guess what its epic 177 hp toons just arnt going to cut it anymore ur going to have to look people up now ur going to have to give instruction to the raid now not just assume every 1 will do the right thing and follow the game plan that was never outlined yes thats right if u put up a pug u have to lead it ive lead several pug chronos with easy completions since the update with maybe half the raid being names i know and have run with, i think this is more a problem of leadership and the lack thereof then the content being to hard.

  11. #31
    Community Member freekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aarant View Post
    ive solo cast this raid several times since the update i have a first life wizzy its a pain but it can be done spell pen is fairly high think i need to roll a 2 or lower to fail a tred wizzie would 0 problems with spell pen 42 enchant dc thats not to crazy if ur enchant focused am which im not easily reachable though if u go enchant ur main school drop dd's through out the fight if u have to so the divines can rotate out and grab shrines u saved, u did save at least 1 shrine each right? alls this requires is a bit of leadership and a bit of screening on noes theres that bad word "screening" guess what its epic 177 hp toons just arnt going to cut it anymore ur going to have to look people up now ur going to have to give instruction to the raid now not just assume every 1 will do the right thing and follow the game plan that was never outlined yes thats right if u put up a pug u have to lead it ive lead several pug chronos with easy completions since the update with maybe half the raid being names i know and have run with, i think this is more a problem of leadership and the lack thereof then the content being to hard.
    There would be no problems of leadership if we had wings.

    Soaked/Soaking/Zecks/Zeckshealer - Cannith
    Soaked's build

  12. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Philisophical question: Should "all" players be capable of doing the "hardest" stuff in the game?

    If the game is too easy people will eventually get bored and move on. many people need a new challenge to stay motivated. Though I agree the HP/Fort inflation was a stupid way to do this and I'll miss being able to pug much of this content I understand why Turbine did what it did.

    In the OP I should have said "Not that bad . . . compared to Elite Tower."
    Call me crazy but YES I believe all players should be able to do these things! Why?? Simply because this is a game that all players have used $ or time to play it. They earned that right simply by enjoying the same game every player on these boards enjoys to play. The more the older players teach/accept the newer players the longer life span the game will have. If the game becomes a place ONLY specific players can succeed the game will die! If turbine loses everyone there will be no game left.

    That is logic that has spanned well beyond the vision of any single quest and applies everywhere no profit = bankrupt!

  13. #33
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,150

    Default

    I did it 3 times a few days ago. It was the first time post U11.

    I was PUG leader on my CC caster for all three since no one on my server (Khyber) seems to be willing to lead this anymore.

    - First attempt we wiped at CAD because of crazy lag, the kind of lag where you cast a spell, go watch a movie and then you see the results of your spell.

    - Second attempt we wiped in the bank because of bad coordination, healers not conserving SP ...

    - Third attempt was a success.

    The three bosses take longer to kill, so it's about managing resources, SP conservation, scroll healing mandatory and crowd control. You can still solo CC, I also believe 3 pure healers in a PUG is too much, but I have yet to try with only 2.

    Pure PUG, a lil bit picky of course, I myDDO'd people/guilds I didn't know well.
    For an easier completion I could up my "standards" but then it would take a while to fill.

    Right now I take people with decent HP (no 200hp sorc or 350hp fighter) and "better than random loot gear" (1 or 2 GS, 1 or 2 raid items). If I start declining people because they're not hardcore epic farmers with 4-5 epic (true epic, not CC epic) items on their MyDDO page, I'll never fill my PUG.

    I will keep pugging this.
    Last edited by gerardIII; 09-20-2011 at 09:36 AM.

  14. #34
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    NJ/Ghallanda
    Posts
    9,752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelz_Fire View Post
    Call me crazy but YES I believe all players should be able to do these things! Why?? Simply because this is a game that all players have used $ or time to play it. They earned that right simply by enjoying the same game every player on these boards enjoys to play. The more the older players teach/accept the newer players the longer life span the game will have. If the game becomes a place ONLY specific players can succeed the game will die! If turbine loses everyone there will be no game left.

    That is logic that has spanned well beyond the vision of any single quest and applies everywhere no profit = bankrupt!
    I won't call you crazy because that's a perfectly acceptable answer. But once you're at the point where nearly everything you do is easy you will get bored and wish there was another mountain to climb.

    My own opinion is in a grind-based game like this everything should be puggable simply because we have to run the content dozens to hundreds of times to get the stuff we're looking for.

    Raising the difficulty without raising the reward just sucks when you have to kill some silly dragon every day for a year to get a shard you need.

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Raising the difficulty without raising the reward just sucks when you have to kill some silly dragon every day for a year to get a shard you need.
    Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Philisophical question: Should "all" players be capable of doing the "hardest" stuff in the game?
    A point I made a few times over the years: when everything is easy, class/race/gear balance in PvE is irrelevant.
    If you then crank up the difficulty, though, it becomes very relevant.
    Not saying "all" players should be able to do "all" things here, just pointing out there's a lot of pretty big deltas out there; makes pugging "interesting" in an Ash kinda way.

    Quote Originally Posted by freekay View Post
    With out the chance of failure, a victory is hollow.
    I think she's talking about scale rather than an absolute.

    Was in my first eV6 since the update; long beatdown, even in a group with strong leadership, excellent tactics, and good gear.

    The only differences are: HP thresholds went up, it takes longer, and win/lose depends largely on how many mana bars you bring.

    Haven't done any of the others folks are talking about yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by freekay View Post
    THE BEST OF THE BEST.
    What comes to mind (0:50) whenever I hear that expression in this context.
    Last edited by SableShadow; 09-20-2011 at 09:56 AM.
    Brenna and Tzanna Wavekin
    The Dancing Rogues of Argonnessen
    Ascent

  16. #36
    Community Member freekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelz_Fire View Post
    Call me crazy but YES I believe all players should be able to do these things! Why?? Simply because this is a game that all players have used $ or time to play it. They earned that right simply by enjoying the same game every player on these boards enjoys to play. The more the older players teach/accept the newer players the longer life span the game will have. If the game becomes a place ONLY specific players can succeed the game will die! If turbine loses everyone there will be no game left.

    That is logic that has spanned well beyond the vision of any single quest and applies everywhere no profit = bankrupt!
    Ah yes, the old 'Everybody gets a trophy' chestnut... So what thresholds do you invisage someone to complete any and all content on?
    *I don't have that many in-game friends. Should I be able to solo any and all content?
    *I didn't build my toon right, and now all I have is 100hp and 500SP on my cleric. Should I be able to solo heal any and all content?
    *I didn't have time to get gear required for epics and now my to-hit is sitting at 25 and my damage modifier is 3. Should I be able to hate tank any and all content?

    How about the devs just remove player deaths from questing? YAY WE ALL WIN. ALL THE TIME. I feel such accomplishment now <_<

    With out the chance of failure, a victory is hollow.

    Soaked/Soaking/Zecks/Zeckshealer - Cannith
    Soaked's build

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    .

    Raising the difficulty without raising the reward just sucks when you have to kill some silly dragon every day for a year to get a shard you need.
    Yep sucks even more when you have to actually heal 11 other people and use pots for each of those success's!

  18. #38
    Community Member aarant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    145

    Talking $$$

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelz_Fire View Post
    Call me crazy but YES I believe all players should be able to do these things! Why?? Simply because this is a game that all players have used $ or time to play it. They earned that right simply by enjoying the same game every player on these boards enjoys to play. The more the older players teach/accept the newer players the longer life span the game will have. If the game becomes a place ONLY specific players can succeed the game will die! If turbine loses everyone there will be no game left.

    That is logic that has spanned well beyond the vision of any single quest and applies everywhere no profit = bankrupt!
    Well if thats how u honestly feel u ought to roll a healer up and buy a couple hundred sp pots off the store, I'd love to have a healer in my raids with unlimited sp, no reason to decline u then u did pay the $ after all.

  19. #39
    Community Member loki_3369's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freekay View Post
    Why do people like to throw around the term 'Elitist' so much? What exactly is an 'Elitist' in DDO? As I see it:
    1. Quests were made to be beaten
    2. Gear was made to be acquired
    3. Epic was meant to challenge THE BEST OF THE BEST.

    So by virtue of me being able to beat quests, acquire gear and run epics, I am apparently an Elitist now? If this is the case, then by your logic, I should never leave Korthos Island, my toon should permanently have 0 gear and I shouldn't even bother questing. Because if, heavens forbid, I complete a quest, I'd be on my way to become an Elitist *shock horror*

    Sounds like tall poppy syndrome to me - "Onoes, that guy over there is better than me, because he took the time to learn the game and get the gear. He now doesn't struggle as much as ME in end-game and epics. He's such an Elitist..."
    No you're wrong.

    1. Quests were made to be fun.
    2. Gear was made to make quests more fun.
    3. Casual players should be able to go into epic quests and complete them just as easy as a normal run.

    You are an elitist because you expect everyone to be able to do shroud runs for materials, but my normal shroud groups always wipe!


    DOOOoOOoOoOooOoOoOooOoOoOoOOOM

    /Sarcasm off.

    Take the time to get some DT and Greensteel and maybe take constructive criticism on your builds and I promise things won't seem so bad.

    The sense of entitlement among the "casual" playerbase is amazing... The earlier "epics" were way too incredibly easy (I dual wielded Toothpicks, Muckbanes, or clubs of the holy flame more than I used my esos purely out of entertainment and I continue to do so). Epic shouldn't be as easy as elite harbor favor runs. However, now that they can't complete them every time they clearly need to be nerfed. It's really simple: if you can't handle epic yet you probably shouldn't be in the epic

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: You do NOT need epic gear to run epic quests. Greensteel and Dragontouched is more than enough to get by in epics with decent players.
    Snarfity snarfly snarf.

  20. #40
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    252

    Default Please let me know when you run this...

    Quote Originally Posted by gerardIII View Post
    I did it 3 times a few days ago. It was the first time post U11.

    I was PUG leader on my CC caster for all three since no one on my server (Khyber) seems to be willing to lead this anymore.

    - First attempt we wiped at CAD because of crazy lag, the kind of lag where you cast a spell, go watch a movie and then you see the results of your spell.

    - Second attempt we wiped in the bank because of bad coordination, healers not conserving SP ...

    - Third attempt was a success.

    The three bosses take longer to kill, so it's about managing resources, SP conservation, scroll healing mandatory and crowd control. You can still solo CC, I also believe 3 pure healers in a PUG is too much, but I have yet to try with only 2.

    Pure PUG, a lil bit picky of course, I myDDO'd people/guilds I didn't know well.
    For an easier completion I could up my "standards" but then it would take a while to fill.

    Right now I take people with decent HP (no 200hp sorc or 350hp fighter) and "better than random loot gear" (1 or 2 GS, 1 or 2 raid items). If I start declining people because they're not hardcore epic farmers with 4-5 epic (true epic, not CC epic) items on their MyDDO page, I'll never fill my PUG.

    I will keep pugging this.
    What day/time do you usually run this on Khyber? The guild I'm in doesn't have a lot of level 20 toons on when I can play, so I've never actually run this in a "guild run", but I've pug'd it probably 8-10 times, and I'm always looking for an eChrono LFM but rarely see them - thx.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload