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  1. #1
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    Default Repeater fire rates

    Just did some testing of repeater fire rates with various feats and BAB on live, since it seems no one has posted any yet.

    Fire rates listed is the % of time taken to fire 100 bolts holding down attack (i.e. no clicking to improve rates of fire) e.g. if I say a 78% fire rate it means it took 78% of the time to fire 100 bolts compared with the base time.

    No significant difference between light and heavy repeaters at any level - nearly all variability was within margin of error. There were a couple of outliers, but 1 was in favour of heavy, the others in favour of light. I can't call it.

    None of Haste, Action Boost Haste or Ranged Alactiry seems to affect rate of fire (I'm guessing at least RA should - I've bug reported it). Armor of Speed seems to give a very slight improvement to 93% - well off the "15% faster attack speed" listed. It could be within testing error as well.

    UpdateFurther testing by other people suggests that haste effects do give improvements, but due to the multiplicative nature of the effects, once you start getting too many e.g. RR + RS + haste the improvement starts becoming hard to tell at times.

    Rapid Reload improves fire rate to approx 75%.

    Rapid Shot improves fire rate to approx 78%.

    Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot combined improve fire rate to about 60% over having neither.

    Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot improves fire rate to about 83% over either Rapid Reload or Rapid Shot alone (i.e. improvement is not as good as having either over none, but still a significant improvement).

    BAB +14 compared to BAB +1 with Rapid Reload only gave a fire rate of 88%. BAB +13 compared to BAB +0 with both RR and RS gave an improved fire rate of 90%. So let's say BAB difference of 13 gives approx a 90% fire rate.

    So, comparing a level 1 Rogue with with no feats with a level 20 Rogue:

    BAB only: ~90%
    BAB + Rapid Reload: ~68%
    BAB + Rapid Shot: ~70%
    BAB + Rapid Reload + Rapid Shot: ~54%

    Level 1 Artificer with no feats (already has RR) compared with a level 20 Artificer:

    BAB only: ~90%
    BAB + Rapid Shot: ~70%

    Based on this, I would recommend any Artificer using a repeater to take Rapid Shot and use a heavy repeater unless the effects on available light repeaters are better. Other repeater users (e.g. Mechanic) should take both Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot.

    BTW Artificers should also take Quick Draw to reduce the activation times of Fusillade and Action Boosts (and swapping weapons of course).

    UPDATE

    I don't have every possible combination, but here's an update with raw numbers - number of seconds required to fire 100 bolts (smaller is better):

    Heavy vs Light Repeater

    Code:
    Heavy/Light     BAB     Rapid Reload     Rapid Shot     Time (seconds)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Light            +0     Y                                75
    Heavy            +0     Y                                74
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Light            +4     Y                                76
    Heavy            +4     Y                                72
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Light           +14                      Y               68
    Heavy           +14                      Y               69
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Light           +15     Y                Y               56
    Heavy           +15     Y                Y               57
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rapid Reload/Rapid Shot

    Code:
    Heavy/Light     BAB     Rapid Reload     Rapid Shot     Time (seconds)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy            +1                                     100
    Heavy            +0     Y                                74
    Heavy            +1                      Y               78
    Heavy            +0     Y                Y               62
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BAB

    Code:
    Heavy/Light     BAB     Rapid Reload     Rapid Shot     Time (seconds)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy            +1                      Y               78
    Heavy           +14                      Y               69
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy            +0     Y                                74
    Heavy            +4     Y                                72
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy            +0     Y                Y               62
    Heavy           +13     Y                Y               57
    Heavy           +15     Y                Y               57
    Heavy           +19     Y                Y               55
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Haste/Action Boost Haste (20%)/Ranged Alacrity 10%/Armor of Speed - all with RR and RS

    Code:
    Heavy/Light     BAB     Haste   20% Boost  10% Alacrity   AoS   Time (seconds)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Light           +10                                              56
    Light           +10     Y                                        56
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy           +11                                              60
    Heavy           +11             Y                                58
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy           +13                                              57
    Heavy           +13                         Y                    58
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Heavy            +6                                              62
    Heavy            +6                                        Y     58
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by TimoteoDeLani; 10-21-2011 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Updated with raw numbers

  2. #2
    Lord of Dragons Maatogaeoth's Avatar
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    Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time!

  3. #3
    Community Member bhgiant's Avatar
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    Can you do breakdown of the numbers for us? Like x bolts fired in 1 minute per cetegory?
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  4. #4
    Community Member Ebforest60's Avatar
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    Did my own (semi-scientific) test. Fighter level 4 purchased weapons from vendor and stacks of 100 bolts, clicked Armor Boost (20 seconds) then held down mouse button to fire. Number of bolts fired in 20 seconds (only one pass each so could stand some further testing to account for lag, and other variables.)

    --> No Ranged Feats
    Heavy Xbow 10
    Great Xbow 9
    Hvy Repeater 24

    --> Rapid Shot only
    Heavy Xbow 12
    Great XBow 11
    Hvy Repeater 27

    --> Rapid Reload only
    Heavy Xbow 13
    Great Xbow 13
    Hvy Repeater 30

    --> Rapid Shot AND Rapid Reload
    Heavy Xbow 15
    Great Xbow 15
    Hvy Repeater 46


    I'll be taking both feats on my Crossbow user.

  5. #5
    Community Member bhgiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebforest60 View Post
    Did my own (semi-scientific) test. Fighter level 4 purchased weapons from vendor and stacks of 100 bolts, clicked Armor Boost (20 seconds) then held down mouse button to fire. Number of bolts fired in 20 seconds (only one pass each so could stand some further testing to account for lag, and other variables.)

    --> No Ranged Feats
    Heavy Xbow 10
    Great Xbow 9
    Hvy Repeater 24

    --> Rapid Shot only
    Heavy Xbow 12
    Great XBow 11
    Hvy Repeater 27

    --> Rapid Reload only
    Heavy Xbow 13
    Great Xbow 13
    Hvy Repeater 30

    --> Rapid Shot AND Rapid Reload
    Heavy Xbow 15
    Great Xbow 15
    Hvy Repeater 46


    I'll be taking both feats on my Crossbow user.
    So taking both feats improved you Repeater attack speed by nearly 100%? ARTIES FTW!
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    We are not working with the aliens to send messages that are picked up by your microwaved meatloaf dinner. At least I don't think so...
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  6. #6
    Stormreach Advisor Berjik's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if I should report this but I am still losing shots quite often on my 20 Mechanic with heavy repeater, not as much as before the update but still about 10-20% of them are still being lost. Also my repeater will fire off randomly but just once, you hear just one shot sound and causes me to lose all my bolts and have to reload.
    Berjik Quilos TR1 2 Ranger / 1Fighter || Selyndrila Godeviir 15/2 Ranger/Paladin/Fighter || Felyndrila Godeviir ~ 14 Paladin || Gravitee ~ 20 WF Monk || Fizzcrank Spinbox - 13 WF Wizard || Horox 8/2/2 Bard/Rog/Fighter

  7. #7
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    Updated first post with raw numbers and also Haste/Action Boost Haste. Will update with Armor of Speed and Ranged Alacrity when I can.

  8. #8
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Nice thread, but to be honest, all info I need is that, at endless fussilade and haste, artificer is firing 30 bolts in 6 seconds (with rapid shot).
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  9. #9
    Community Member Kachajal's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for doing the work. I've done some testing myself at a low level, and the results were fairly close, so I think this should be fairly accurate.

  10. #10
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    Updated with Ranged Alacrity (it doesn't improve RoF).

  11. #11
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    Updated with Armor of Speed (maybe a slight improvement to RoF).

  12. #12
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimoteoDeLani View Post
    Updated with Armor of Speed (maybe a slight improvement to RoF).
    ummm... your recent tests show you did those with much lower BAB, so the haste and armor of speed things are probably counting for something at least.

    though i must admit, i'm curious why the stated BAB is all over the place.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaid314 View Post
    ummm... your recent tests show you did those with much lower BAB, so the haste and armor of speed things are probably counting for something at least.

    though i must admit, i'm curious why the stated BAB is all over the place.
    I always made sure there was a direct comparison on each variable (or at most a BAB difference of +1) - for example, for the Armor of Speed the comparison is only between the last 2 (the only difference is AoS). I've updated the tables to make it more obvious which lines should be being compared.

    Why is the BAB all over the place for the various tests? Depended on what characters I had available with what feats.

    My conclusions about Haste, etc may be wrong - it's possible that their increases are applying to only a small part of the animation, and running longer tests would reveal it. But if so, they're not working as I understand they should e.g. 10% faster ranged combat suggests to me that my overall RoF should improve by approx 10%.
    Last edited by TimoteoDeLani; 09-18-2011 at 05:10 PM.

  14. #14
    2016 DDO Players Council BananaHat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimoteoDeLani View Post
    I always made sure there was a direct comparison on each variable (or at most a BAB difference of +1) - for example, for the Armor of Speed the comparison is only between the last 2 (the only difference is AoS). I've updated the tables to make it more obvious which lines should be being compared.

    Why is the BAB all over the place for the various tests? Depended on what characters I had available with what feats.

    My conclusions about Haste, etc may be wrong - it's possible that their increases are applying to only a small part of the animation, and running longer tests would reveal it. But if so, they're not working as I understand they should e.g. 10% faster ranged combat suggests to me that my overall RoF should improve by approx 10%.
    It is a known "feature" to the players that all attack speed bonuses only apply at half strength to ranged attacks e.g. ranger capstone is really 12.5% bonus, haste is 7.5%, etc. This does make it harder to test the increase and requires longer tests to smooth out the error.
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  15. #15
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Can you test at BAB 16 or 20?
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  16. #16
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    Unfortunately I don't currently have any repeater users above BAB +15. My Mechanic I/Kensei II builds will max out at BAB +16. You really need to go pure fighter to fit a repeater in and hit BAB +20, and most people just opt for quick draw and a throwing weapon for ranged damage on a fighter (since throwing gets strength added to damage).

    Maybe with so many people discovering the joys of the repeater with their artificers we'll start to see it feature in a few more builds.

  17. #17
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimoteoDeLani View Post
    Unfortunately I don't currently have any repeater users above BAB +15. My Mechanic I/Kensei II builds will max out at BAB +16. You really need to go pure fighter to fit a repeater in and hit BAB +20, and most people just opt for quick draw and a throwing weapon for ranged damage on a fighter (since throwing gets strength added to damage).

    Maybe with so many people discovering the joys of the repeater with their artificers we'll start to see it feature in a few more builds.
    Divine power clicky.
    Or artifical BAB increase don't affects rate of fire?
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  18. #18
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    I didn't even think of that - d'oh! Updated with a +19 BAB - slight improvement over +15.
    Last edited by TimoteoDeLani; 09-21-2011 at 05:12 PM.

  19. #19
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    Actually having been involved in a lot of the tests that this thread is based on, Im pretty sure that when you fire enough bolts in a single test, then a 7.5% ROF increase is pretty obvious.

    Due to the number of factors involved here such as lag, unreliable animations etc it is nearly impossible to accurately measure something like a 1-3% ROF increase, however 7.5% does tend to show up reliably.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chung_kuel View Post
    Actually having been involved in a lot of the tests that this thread is based on, Im pretty sure that when you fire enough bolts in a single test, then a 7.5% ROF increase is pretty obvious.

    Due to the number of factors involved here such as lag, unreliable animations etc it is nearly impossible to accurately measure something like a 1-3% ROF increase, however 7.5% does tend to show up reliably.
    Right, haste on its own shows up ok, but the difference between haste and ranged alacrity 10% starts to get murky. Same with the ToD sets. I'm glad you did long enough tests, firing for 20 seconds doesn't work, you need to fire 100-200 arrows to shake out the smaller percents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin
    I've never seen someone at a tabletop game say "I jump up on the wall until I get stuck in a spot where I can hit the giant but he can't hit me back for no apparent reason."

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