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  1. #21
    2016 DDO Players Council BananaHat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chung_kuel View Post
    Actually having been involved in a lot of the tests that this thread is based on, Im pretty sure that when you fire enough bolts in a single test, then a 7.5% ROF increase is pretty obvious.

    Due to the number of factors involved here such as lag, unreliable animations etc it is nearly impossible to accurately measure something like a 1-3% ROF increase, however 7.5% does tend to show up reliably.
    Right, haste on its own shows up ok, but the difference between haste and ranged alacrity 10% starts to get murky. Same with the ToD sets. I'm glad you did long enough tests, firing for 20 seconds doesn't work, you need to fire 100-200 arrows to shake out the smaller percents.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    did my own testing with Haste and AoS, and i've gotta say they DO provide a significnat boost.

    timed how long it took to fire 25 shots with Auto-attack on (one shot = one 3 round burst with a HR)

    Testing toon was a 9 Arti without Rapid shot.

    tested 3 times each

    no Haste: 47.39, 46.69, 46.56 seconds

    with Haste: 41.93, 42.17, 43.25 seconds

    AoS numbers were so similar to Haste i wont bother posting

    Haste/Aos together: 42.64 seconds (only tested once)


    Conclusions: AoS and Haste do not stack, but DO increase ROF

    subjective observation: it seems that the actual firing speed of the repeater is not effected, but the reload speed is
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  3. #23
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    Are you in a position to test with rapid shot as well (maybe next level or something)? All my Haste/Armor of Speed/Action Boost tests were with both RR and RS and I saw no significant improvement (i.e. nothing outside the margin of error).

    It might be that RS does not stack with haste effects.

  4. #24
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimoteoDeLani View Post
    Are you in a position to test with rapid shot as well (maybe next level or something)? All my Haste/Armor of Speed/Action Boost tests were with both RR and RS and I saw no significant improvement (i.e. nothing outside the margin of error).

    It might be that RS does not stack with haste effects.
    assuming this request is directed at me, i was thinking of using a feat swap (reletively cheap at L9) to get Rapid shot. if i do so, i will re-test and post results here
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  5. #25
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    tested again after swapping in Rapid Shot this morning. same procedure as above, only variable changed was adding RS

    Rapid Reload+Rapid Shot- 42.12, 42.20, 41.77

    RR+RS+AoS- 40.15, 39.30, 38.64

    so overall a ~2 second increase. not sure what the % value on that would be, but its safe to assume that longer fight= better return. if i saw a 2 second reduction in firing just 25 "shots", how much difference would that equate to firing 100? 1000?

    it might not appear significant from my test, but it is.

    Edit: having determined earlier that AOS and Haste dont stack, i did not bother testing with Haste.
    Last edited by Asmodeus451; 10-21-2011 at 07:22 AM.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    also, if you combine the data from both tests, you will see that Rapid Shot is well worth the feat.

    Combined Data Table:

    all test done using auto-attack by a level 9 Arti firing 25 "shots" (1 shot = 3 round burst)


    RR only- 47.39, 46.69, 46.56

    RR+Haste/Aos- 41.93, 42.17, 43.25

    RR+RS- 42.12, 42.20, 41.77

    RR+RS+Haste/AoS- 40.15, 39.30, 38.64
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  7. #27
    Community Member Meretrix's Avatar
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    What does quick draw do exactly? It claims to be only for throwing weapons.

  8. #28
    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meretrix View Post
    What does quick draw do exactly? It claims to be only for throwing weapons.
    Quick Draw is one of those feats with alot of "hidden" benefits.

    in addition to its stated benefit, it also reduces the activation time of skill/attack/damage boosts, and reduces weapon swap time (apparently, as i've never used it myself)
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodeus451 View Post
    also, if you combine the data from both tests, you will see that Rapid Shot is well worth the feat.

    Combined Data Table:

    all test done using auto-attack by a level 9 Arti firing 25 "shots" (1 shot = 3 round burst)


    RR only- 47.39, 46.69, 46.56

    RR+Haste/Aos- 41.93, 42.17, 43.25

    RR+RS- 42.12, 42.20, 41.77

    RR+RS+Haste/AoS- 40.15, 39.30, 38.64
    OK - that looks to me like there is an improvement, but due to the multiplicative nature of stacking multiple effects (RR + RS + haste + BAB) it starts to become hard to reliably demonstrate it. My own testing suggested that there was an improvement, but was too close to call (I even had one case where the hasted test took longer).

    I'll update the first post.
    Last edited by TimoteoDeLani; 10-21-2011 at 04:35 PM.

  10. #30
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    I was just getting ready to craft a Ranged Alacrity shard for one of my rune arms, but after coming across this thread, I won't waste the ingredients.

    Thanks for the detailed information.
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  11. #31

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    Wanted to semi-necro this thread to list some results that came up in discussion over in my Rune Arm DPS thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    Hoo boy, this is interesting.

    So, to start with, I used the following methodology: conjure a stack of 400 bolts, cast a resist for a timer, and click my mouse button to attack the training dummy as the timer struck an even minute, holding the mouse button down and releasing it exactly 2 minutes later on the timer. This is with a level 10 arti at BAB 7, with Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload. See how many bolts I have left afterward. In cases where I used Endless Fusillade, I deliberately waited until after my attack chain started before triggering EF, so that I'd be sure I had the entire activation delay as part of the chain. Results:

    Base (RR + RS only): 195 bolts, or ~97 bolts/min
    EFx4: 252 bolts, 126 bolts/min
    AoS: 216 bolts, 108 bolts/min
    AoS, EFx4: 258 bolts, 129 bolts/min

    So, clearly a difference between armor of speed and no armor of speed. For kicks, I then started changing my methodology -- rather than holding down the mouse button to attack, I simply engaged/disengaged auto-attack at the 2-minute mark:

    Base (RR + RS only): 216 bolts, 108 bolts/min
    AoS: 216 bolts, 108 bolts/min
    AoS, EFx4: 258, 129 bolts/min
    (Couldn't immediately do EFx4 with autoattack, as my network connection flaked out during the last test)

    So, that's pretty interesting. With autoattack on, it looks like the server-side speed is mistakenly assuming the same speed boost as Haste/AoS? I gotta imagine that's a bug -- that probably the speed without auto-attack is the intended one.
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  12. #32
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    To-do list: Run some longer tests, probably 3 minute.

    Reposted from other thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    For the record, my test will be done w/ Rapid Reload but no Rapid Shot. I don't have room for Rapid Shot on my current build...currently playing w/ all 3 making DM's as well as construct essence (which I still maintain is a trap despite the fact I'm enjoying having it :P).
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    Level 20 human artificer with Rapid Reload without Rapid Shot or Quick Draw, using a crafted Heavy Repeater

    Buffs:
    None: 99 bolts / minute
    Haste: 99 bolts / minute
    Divine Power: 105 bolts / minute
    Haste + Divine Power: 105 bolts / minute

    Repeating Light XBow, same toon:
    Haste + Divine Power: 111 bolts / minute

    I know that no one was suggesting haste worked but figured I'd test it while I was on. I may drop the construct essence and get buy with emergency quickened admixtures and heal scrolls/cure serious or crit wands. If I go there in a couple days I'll post the new results.

    These numbers fluctuated a bit in some tests...I almost got another barrage on the 105 tests and the 111 test was only run once so could fall closer to 108. Would need more testing to be sure. These tests were ran with autofire and without any endless fuselage usage so people may be able to do better but this is the baseline.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    Ok...just to confirm something, my tests that showed no increase from spell haste were performed with auto-attack toggled on. I was holding down mouse button as well.

    I picked up Rapid Shot by the way and tested it. I was getting clean, no-buff tests of about 108 which falls in line with the 8-9% increase I'd seen people mentioned. I won't post the raw data though as I was eating at the time and don't trust the numbers. I'll try to post up some more reliable numbers later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    Ok, repeated test now with Rapid Shot
    Heavy Repeater
    No buffs: 108 bolts / minute (8-9% increase over 99 bolts / minute)
    AoS + Divine Power: 117 bolts / minute (11%+ increase over 105 bolts / minute)

    No definitive answers yet...need a lot more testing before we're there...but here are some more data points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    I just got 114 with DP only. Twice in a row. Definitely seems to be less, but only marginally - nowhere near the full value of haste less.
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  13. #33
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    best from your test is 100 bolts in 55s
    which is 100*60/55 = 109 bolt / min

    Wow that's a lot !
    for comparison with bows:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=263907&page=4

    max was found at 74 arrows / min

    and archers don't have rune arms / pets / BB ...

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