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  1. #41
    Community Member Allorian's Avatar
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    Cool Build

    Hi, I like the concept of the build. I have buddies here on sarlona who have essentially the same build for DPS and have around a 50-60 AC unbuffed. With around a 30-36 Str unbuffed they use LitII's Kopheshes and do pretty decent damage, the only problem they really have is hitting epic MOBS on a regular basis. How have you solved this with your build as I see that as the only real challenge for your build as it is for thiers. With ship and party buffs you can get about another +10 or so to hit (without going into detail) and there are clickies for I belive it is Divine Might that can give ya more bonuses but that is a few minutes at best. Oh and the name we gave the build here a few months back was "The Last Man Standing" as it has good AC, HP's, Evsasion and Awesome Saves. Its a very gear dependant Build but it is nice.

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    Glam/Choh/Juggernautte of Sarlona

  2. #42
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Looks pretty good, but I really think that losing 1 Toughness for Power Attack makes too much sense to represent it otherwise. You don't always need AC, and rarely need max AC, and 22 HP is hardly making or breaking the character, whereas extra DPS is always welcome.

    Could even drop another for OTWF to make up for the to-hit issues vs. some epic mobs. Personally, I'm not a fan of blowing so many feats on Toughness when there are other, useful feats to be taking.
    Last edited by sephiroth1084; 09-12-2011 at 12:21 AM.
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  3. #43
    Community Member scottmike0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    Not 2 ~other~ toons, 2 toons total. Kelida being one of them, Myriad, my fvs, being the other.

    The vast majority of people who play DDO have more than 1 character. Still, assume you double the time it took me to acquire my entire Abashai set, that would still only put acquisition time at 2 weeks, less than the the time it takes for a single character to craft a greensteel weapon through shroud raids.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    I hadn't bothered to bring it up until now, but since I just let the cat out of the bag.. Yes, my alt Myriad ~is~ a FvS. That's how I know first hand that melees are inferior to casters in the solo department. My first VoD solo on normal on Kelida took me 77 minutes and almost a dozen failed attempts. I did it on my FvS in less than half the time, in less than half the attempts. Casters have been doing amazing things in video games since the beginning of time though, so their accomplishments, unless truly awe inspiring such as Healings soloing ToD, are expected.

    For a pure melee to solo any raid though? That's not expected, so pardon me if I over-indulged in my bragging rights.
    yep, im going for the pure melee solo and yes i will try it when i get some plat to buy heal scrolls for i tend to always spend every time i get 100k plat i think i've never reached over 200k plat without spending it within one second i get it

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allorian View Post
    Hi, I like the concept of the build. I have buddies here on sarlona who have essentially the same build for DPS and have around a 50-60 AC unbuffed. With around a 30-36 Str unbuffed they use LitII's Kopheshes and do pretty decent damage, the only problem they really have is hitting epic MOBS on a regular basis. How have you solved this with your build as I see that as the only real challenge for your build as it is for thiers.
    To-hit is going to be a problem for any non-strength based build. I have 34 str in defender stance, and a 19 BAB. Sure, it's not the 70 Str of a raging frenzied berzerker, but it's enough so that, while I'm currently screwing around with a recent Lesser TR that has stunning fist and power attack, I can still keep power attack on for Epic Devil Assault. I just have to take it off for the bosses and orthons.

    Keep in mind that Epic quests disregard AC the way the game is currently set, so you'll never want to have Combat Expertise on anyways. So the removal of CE effectively adds +5 to hit.

    Divine favor adds +2 to hit and damage.
    Craftable trinket adds additional +4 to hit.
    For Epic quests, I also swap out my usual HP greensteel goggles in place of Tharne's Goggles, for an additiona +5 to hit and +8 to damage. For those super hard to hit epic bosses, sub in an Imp Destruction weapon every minute. Use a Smite Evil to land the Imp Destruction, as your smite is an almost guaranteed hit. You should only miss on a 1 after that, assuming you remembered your friendly Planar Girds for GH! =}

    If a 19 BAB melee with 34 str has a hard time hitting mobs, you have to wonder how rogues manage...

    In epic Quests, keep in mind a tank build will be less effective than a DPS build since AC is rendered useless. For such quests, remember to swap out your AC gear for to-hit gear such as the tharne's goggles.

    It is not the build so much as the gear which determine's a melee's to-hit factors. Consider this build if it had started with 18 strength and put all 5 points into strength. That would only net +4 to hit, which is less effective than simply possessing Tharne's Goggles or a +4 to hit trinket.
    Cannith Server - Kelida - Myriad - Sylmeria - A Tribe Called Zerg
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    Looks pretty good, but I really think that losing 1 Toughness for Power Attack makes too much sense to represent it otherwise. You don't always need AC, and rarely need max AC, and 22 HP is hardly making or breaking the character, whereas extra DPS is always welcome.

    Could even drop another for OTWF to make up for the to-hit issues vs. some epic mobs. Personally, I'm not a fan of blowing so many feats on Toughness when there are other, useful feats to be taking.
    And that's perfectly fine. There's definitely wiggle room in the HP department if you prefer DPS. Personally though, I think the opitomy of a tank requires having the highest AC and HP possible. OTWF is only needed if you go the Kopesh route.

    You can actually free up 2 feats with the removal of dodge and two weapon defense, but that would drop your AC by 2. After seeing how horribly I died on my first VoD Hard attempt with a difference of only 3 AC, I'm hesitant to touch anything that could lower my AC by even a single point, but update 11 does admittedly grant an addition 3 AC with the introduction of the Epic Grim's Bracelet changes. With those two feats, you could take power attack and kopesh proficientcy or whatever else you prefer.

    Personally? I leave the dps to the rogues and barbarians. The Emerald is certainly a lot more fun to play than a turtling intimi-tank, like how tanking worked before update 9. Regardless, those who choose to play pure tank characters usually don't mind letting others shine in the killing department. Afterall, you're the star of the raid, the sole character preventing the entire raid from a whipe out if the raid boss turns towards the more fragile melees. Isn't that enough? =D
    Cannith Server - Kelida - Myriad - Sylmeria - A Tribe Called Zerg
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  6. #46
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    If I were doing a similar build, I don't think I would take PA, but I would instead go human, drop 2 toughness feats and get WF, WS and gWS. This is a net loss of 44 HP (actually a bit more with the +15% from stance), but it would give +1 to hit and +5 to damage (including +1 from enh.), which would work with CE on.
    A side benefit would be to be able to switch between kensei and stalwart depending on gear and/or for leveling with a simple reset of enhancements.
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

  7. #47
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    And that's perfectly fine. There's definitely wiggle room in the HP department if you prefer DPS. Personally though, I think the opitomy of a tank requires having the highest AC and HP possible. OTWF is only needed if you go the Kopesh route.
    When you have unhittable AC, Evasion and great saves, there really isn't anywhere (currently) that you need more than 700ish HP. More is better, yes, but there's no need at all for 800+ HP on this kind of character, whereas the option of bringing the DPS when you don't need Combat Expertise, and of landing more of your attacks in epic content, are rather important.

    I know that on my tank, I only turn CE on if I need it: elite tanking Horoth, hard tanking with few buffs (no bard, no ranger). Yeah, you won't be top DPS anyway, but that doesn't mean you need to waste time by walking around with a pointless +5 AC, and there are plenty of situations where you aren't tanking...unless that's all you use the character for.

    You can actually free up 2 feats with the removal of dodge and two weapon defense, but that would drop your AC by 2. After seeing how horribly I died on my first VoD Hard attempt with a difference of only 3 AC, I'm hesitant to touch anything that could lower my AC by even a single point, but update 11 does admittedly grant an addition 3 AC with the introduction of the Epic Grim's Bracelet changes. With those two feats, you could take power attack and kopesh proficientcy or whatever else you prefer.
    Why drop feats that are actually doing something significant for you before the ones that aren't (Toughness 8 and 9)?

    Personally? I leave the dps to the rogues and barbarians. The Emerald is certainly a lot more fun to play than a turtling intimi-tank, like how tanking worked before update 9. Regardless, those who choose to play pure tank characters usually don't mind letting others shine in the killing department. Afterall, you're the star of the raid, the sole character preventing the entire raid from a whipe out if the raid boss turns towards the more fragile melees. Isn't that enough? =D
    It is if you are the tank for the raid, but not if you're just running a quest, or not main tanking for one reason or another. And it isn't if you don't need the AC. If you're buffed to 95 AC, but the boss can't hit 85, why do you need CE on?
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  8. #48
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feithlin View Post
    If I were doing a similar build, I don't think I would take PA, but I would instead go human, drop 2 toughness feats and get WF, WS and gWS. This is a net loss of 44 HP (actually a bit more with the +15% from stance), but it would give +1 to hit and +5 to damage (including +1 from enh.), which would work with CE on.
    A side benefit would be to be able to switch between kensei and stalwart depending on gear and/or for leveling with a simple reset of enhancements.
    Actually, that's a good point.

    Again, my inclination would be to drop yet another Toughness for PA on top of all that. One of the strengths of these sorts of characters is (if you allow for it) their ability to transform from a moderate DPS tank, to a reasonable DPS melee striker; drop the AC gear, equip DPS gear, turn off CE/on PA, and suddenly you're keeping up with the pure DPSers. That's a rather important function for this sort of toon, in my opinion, and is rather easy to achieve if you already have major DPS feats like GTWF.
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  9. #49
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    Sephiroth makes some incredibly valid arguments. I used to have 910 HP standing with just my stance on. This is with the 5 piece Abashai set. And geuss what? I failed trying to solo VoD on ~normal~ like 10 times in a row.

    That was when I had starting con of 15 and put all leveling points into con. As you can see from my screenshot, my current character only has 740 HP (only 7 toughness as well. Messing around with power attack and stunning fist), and yet tanks ToD Elite without any major problems, and was able to successfully solo VoD on Hard.

    More than 700 really isn't necessary, but it sure LOOKS GREAT after update 11 since everyone will be able to see your HP. lol.

    If you're not into crazy, ******** solo's like I am (I've run out of things to do in DDO.. the game was becoming stagnant.), then taking the suggested loss of toughness for increased DPS, alongside with taking Rogue Dilli would actually upgrade your DPS substancially. 10.5 DPS just from rogue dilli alone, 5 from Power Attack, and an additional potential 5 from Weapon Specialization.

    In Pen N paper, you need greater weapon focus to take greater weapon specialization. Did that not translate to DDO? I wasnt really willing to sacrafice 4 feats just for +2 to hit and +5 to dmg.

    Cleric or Rogue Dilli though? That's a tough one. I used Rogue Dilli while leveling. You could always swap it out with your 1 free feat exchange. More than once though, I've saved a raid by being able to rez the dead healers with the Cleric Dilli. I guess it boils down to personal prefference. Either choice would be better than being human though. in my opinion, and only gaining 1 additional feat.
    Last edited by Droken; 09-12-2011 at 05:54 AM.
    Cannith Server - Kelida - Myriad - Sylmeria - A Tribe Called Zerg
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  10. #50
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    Can you give a breakdown of your to hit when tanking Turigulon for example, I can't figure out how you could possibly hit on a roll of 2. I guess he's kept double destructed and sundered at all the times along with waves of exhaustion?

    And I have even harder time figuring out how you could ever keep aggro from full ****** DPS, especially without power attack. Blitz builds and eSoS barbs (not to mention fully epiced rogues) can pump out rather ridiculous amounts of damage currently and you won't be anywhere near those numbers, so even with DR and stance bonus I doubt you can keep aggro from epiced out dps for long. For some strange reason, currently the only thing that I've seen keep aggro from full ****** dps is another full ****** dps that's sporting a bit more hate on him.

    Also not having power attack is silly, because in epics your AC is worthless (minor correction, ~90 AC does work against some epic trash, but they're meaningless anyway, and it won't work against any epic bosses), and with all that gear I assume that you do run epics.
    Last edited by Viisari; 09-12-2011 at 06:30 AM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    Can you give a breakdown of your to hit when tanking Turigulon for example, I can't figure out how you could possibly hit on a roll of 2. I guess he's kept double destructed and sundered at all the times along with waves of exhaustion?

    And I have even harder time figuring out how you could ever keep aggro from full ****** DPS, especially without power attack. Blitz builds and eSoS barbs (not to mention fully epiced rogues) can pump out rather ridiculous amounts of damage currently and you won't be anywhere near those numbers, so even with DR and stance bonus I doubt you can keep aggro from epiced out dps for long. For some strange reason, currently the only thing that I've seen keep aggro from full ****** dps is another full ****** dps that's sporting a bit more hate on him.

    Also not having power attack is silly, because in epics your AC is worthless (minor correction, ~90 AC does work against some epic trash, but they're meaningless anyway, and it won't work against any epic bosses), and with all that gear I assume that you do run epics.

    I don't tank for epic quests. Just raids. It's better to have a FvS tank such mini-bosses as Turigulon. Since AC is negated, their ability to deal continuous damage while shield blocking grants them DR roughly 30 for a well geared FvS (10 base + HoX tower shield) as well as an additional 25% mitigation from both shield feats. When not tanking, you get bonuses such as Tharne's + 5, flanking, and if you so choose, additional to-hit from the Hound style of monk enhancements for another +2.

    If you want the actual breakdown though:
    65 = 19 BAB + 12 Str + 9 Weapon + 1 KotC enhancement + 1 Haste + 2 flanking + 5 Tharne's + 4 craftable trinket + 4 GH + 2 Divine Favor + 8 imp destruction - 2 TWF

    I don't know what Turigulon's AC is, but I doubt it presents +65 to hit much of a problem. And yes, for those who felt to-hit would be a problem for this build on epics, that is my actual character's breakdown.

    Keeping aggro against full ****** DPS is easy. There is a very simple solution. Get a head start! If Horoth turning = raid whipe, then what's an additional 30 seconds or so at the very beginning to give the main tank time to build up hate? Defender 2 stance gives 33% hate I believe, and much much more after update 11, and another 100% hate from Divine Righteousness. Simply possessing the Ravager Set means an additional 7 damage per swing, which is much higher than a tank who had power attack, but less suitable gear.

    When I tank raids where a simple turning = raid whipe, I request a full 45 seconds from the time I pull the mob into the corner until when I tell the rest of the raid force to jump in, such as when I tank ToD or Epic Chrono.

    Would you rather have an uber barbarian tank Horoth and be able to jump right in and attack, but chancing that the barbarian can possibly die in 3 seconds from a bad series of melee crits and meteor swarm + delayed blast fireball, or the slower-aggro-building true and proper tank who will require a decent head start, but whom can even tank ToD on elite without a light monk because he takes damage so slow that he can even out-survive long periods of the entire raid being stunned?

    Yes, the build ~does~ have hate problems if an encounter lasts longer than 10-12 uses of Divine Righteousness, but this has not been an issue with any current standing raid, and will possibly be trumped by the increase to hate from update 11 anyhow. As an alternative, take Hunter of Hunded prestiege for an additional 2 turn attempts + 10% healing amp. My personal character, however, chooses Knight of Chalice for the + 1 to hit and 1d6 dmg.

    By the way, on Cannith, our guild is actually the highest guild on the server. Every single main-character melee in the guild has an ESoS, and the shards are now being given to our favored souls. I am not tanking against under-geared first-lifers by any means. I have to contend with such Monsters of the Battlefield as Healings, the Mighty Soloer of ToD with no pots. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=326633

    By the way, Horoth on Elite has DR 35, so I assume these Full ****** DPS as you refer them to have to downgrade from using their ESoS to a min 2, dramatically weaker variety, wheras I strut a pair of Holyburst Greater Lawful Banes. When you are pitted against the best DPS, you are correct. It takes an equally uber geared character to maintain aggro.
    Last edited by Droken; 09-12-2011 at 07:19 AM.
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  12. #52
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Default Nice build!

    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    I request a full 45 seconds from the time I pull the mob into the corner until when I tell the rest of the raid force to jump in, such as when I tank ToD or Epic Chrono.

    Just dont forget to tell the group whats your exact head start. It may differ. Like our head starts are 5 (sometimes 10) seconds.
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  13. #53
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    Tank builds cannot hold aggro against "Full ****** DPS" without a head start. DPS builds such as Frenzied Berzerkers get molested by trash mobs such as Orthons. Orthons feed well-geared FvS mana while posing next to no threat whatsoever. Such is the circle of DDO life.

    How do we manage? Give the tank a proper head start. Let the FvS shield block the Orthons. Let the DPS attack raid bosses from behind.

    The 2nd time I ever tanked ToD was in a PUG where the dps all rushed in without waiting for me to tell them when it's ok. I lost aggro more than once. Their excuse from one in particular was, "I waited a full 10 seconds before I went in. I stole aggro after 2. You're not a good tank."

    No one died on this raid. I had to steal aggro back using intim, but the fact that Horoth turned on more than one occassion made some feel Kelida was insufficient as a tank.

    Defender builds are not designed to contest with DPS builds on their own playing fields. That would be silly. Each has their own role to play. Give a dedicated tank class proper time to build initial aggro, and you'll enjoy the benefits of a super smooth raid where no one's life falls below 80%.

    You ever seen a ToD raid where the main tank can survive against Horoth JUST on a cleric's healing aura, or a FvS's freebie heals? I invite you to come watch me tank ToD on normal.
    Last edited by Droken; 09-12-2011 at 07:44 AM.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    By the way, Horoth on Elite has DR 35, so I assume these Full ****** DPS as you refer them to have to downgrade from using their ESoS to a min 2, dramatically weaker variety, wheras I strut a pair of Holyburst Greater Lawful Banes. When you are pitted against the best DPS, you are correct. It takes an equally uber geared character to maintain aggro.
    My blitz is actually using two +5 Holy Burst Silver Khopesh of Greater Lawful Outsider Banes just like your build is, and in addition I get tons of damage from sneak attacks. I don't really care what the math wizards say because from my experience dual khopesh deal higher damage against bosses than eSoS does, especially when sneak attacks are in. I'm pretty sure I would get aggro, but then again, it's better for me to save my boosts for killing suulo anyway, and after suulo is down there's no danger of getting it from Horoth.

    And lol no, I don't *want* the aggro, elite Horoth is badass and even if I could maintain 800 hp in ToD I'd feel like I could die at any second since I have no AC and the damage is extremely heavy. Plus sneak attacks are like 10% of my damage output so don't want to lose those either.

    Turigulons AC is around 65 I think, so as long as you're not tanking there's no problem with that, true.

    Nothing against your build (okay, I dislike any build that stacks so many feats on toughness but let's ignore that for now ), reason I'm asking is just because, as I said, I've yet to see anything but full out ****** dps keep aggro from full out ****** dps, and as of yesterday, thf kotc paladins that are otherwise fully epicly geared but missing eSoS aren't in that category against devils :/

    Hopefully U11 will make it easier for tank builds to keep aggro though, having to wait for such longs times really hurts overal party DPS, eventhough a good AC tank really makes elite raids easier.
    Last edited by Viisari; 09-12-2011 at 07:45 AM.

  15. #55
    Community Member Aaxeyu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    Tank builds cannot hold aggro against "Full ****** DPS" without a head start.
    They can if they don't gimp their DPS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moltier View Post
    Just dont forget to tell the group whats your exact head start. It may differ. Like our head starts are 5 (sometimes 10) seconds.
    Oh, the 45 second thing is just for ToD Elite or Epic Chrono because the fight is so long. I only ask for like 15 seconds on normal. Better safe than sorry. What's an extra 30 seconds in a 30 minute raid for an almost guaranteed success, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    Oh, the 45 second thing is just for ToD Elite or Epic Chrono because the fight is so long. I only ask for like 15 seconds on normal. Better safe than sorry. What's an extra 30 seconds in a 30 minute raid for an almost guaranteed success, right?
    In epic chrono though, I find it's rather irrelevant what kind of a build the tank is as long as he can keep the aggro and has some hp. The only real danger is the dragon breath and that can be dodged, no saves rolled. I've tanked it on a fighter, barbarian, paladin and now a blitz without dying to breath even once, and only the blitz has evasion.

    Heck, my wizard has grabbed aggro from the boss with just dots on several occasions and ended up tanking him for rest of the raid. Those parties weren't exactly gimped either, it's the elemental weaknesses the boss has that make dot damage so ridiculous, and I doubt there's much anything in this game that could keep aggro from fully geared elemental savant as far as chrono boss fight goes.

    Horoth is completely different because the damage output is much, much higher and AC actually works there.
    Last edited by Viisari; 09-12-2011 at 07:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaxeyu View Post
    They can if they don't gimp their DPS.
    Like Sephiroth suggested, taking power attack and weapon focus + specialization in place of a few toughness feats provides higher DPS for epic quests.

    Power Attack cannot be used by a tank while in Combat Expertise mode, however, and is therefore unuseable by AC specialists while tanking raid bosses.

    Viisari, I actually agree with you in the ESoS department. I actually have a thread asking which is the better DPS, an ESoS or dual wielding, and the argument seems to swing both ways almost equally. I then took my shiny new ESoS slotted with Devil's Ruin for a test run in a normal VoD solo and found the completion time to be noticeably slower than when I used TWF.

    If you're really concerned about the raid force's DPS, like for instance if you were doing a Speed Run, then throw a high HP barb as the main tank. If you want a super smooth raid with ultry high probability of success and incredibly low probability of the main tank dying, give him his extra 30 seconds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    In epic chrono though, I find it's rather irrelevant what kind of a build the tank is as long as he can keep the aggro and has some hp. The only real danger is the dragon breath and that can be dodged, no saves rolled. I've tanked it on a fighter, barbarian, paladin and now a blitz without dying to breath even once, and only the blitz has evasion.

    Heck, my wizard has grabbed aggro from the boss with just dots on several occasions and ended up tanking him for rest of the raid. Those parties weren't exactly gimped either, it's the elemental weaknesses the boss has that make dot damage so ridiculous, and I doubt there's much anything in this game that could keep aggro from fully geared elemental savant as far as chrono boss fight goes.

    Horoth is completely different because the damage output is much, much higher and AC actually works there.
    Tanking Epic Chrono is mainly only a problem for the first quarter of the Abashai's HP or so. That's when he's in red dragon mode and can easilly whipe all the melees with a single breath attack. After that, he mostly switches to his lesser forms. While, yes, you can admittedly dodge his breath attack with high real~player reflexes, we have a lot of older people who play DDO who have to rely on their build. The high saving throws coupled with evasion from The Emerald makes it possible to tank the Conjoined Abashai while eating a bowl of cereal however. =} Although, I will admit that I personally use the herein listed UMD to keep up Fire Shield, and couple it with a 33% absorb trinket in the off chance I fail a saving throw. (in which case I take about 200 points of fire damage, which is hardly anything)
    Cannith Server - Kelida - Myriad - Sylmeria - A Tribe Called Zerg
    * Founder of The Emerald build and The Emerald v 2.0
    * First melee to have ever soloed VoD on Hard

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droken View Post
    If you're really concerned about the raid force's DPS, like for instance if you were doing a Speed Run, then throw a high HP barb as the main tank. If you want a super smooth raid with ultry high probability of success and incredibly low probability of the main tank dying, give him his extra 30 seconds.
    Heh, after U11 I don't think it's even possible for any kind of barbarian to tank elite ToD anymore, you *will* need a good AC tank for the job. Unless your healers like drinking major pots like booze, and even then I'd wager the barb will die.

    Suulo in elite VoD is getting similiar buffs if I remember right.

    And I actually find it a bit sad that AC tanks are so rare currently, but I think U11 goes a long way to correct that, I've been thinking about making some kind of AC build myself too, but that might have to wait because I've found a strange fascination for monks (not the ac kind) now O_o

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