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  1. #1
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default New Server - Extreme Difficulty - for anyone who complains of easy buttons

    I suggest a new server. It will be extreme difficulty and only in place to punish players for ever complaining that the game has become too easy. It will be a dark and scary place where even walking around the harbour will be fraught with danger and you will jump at every shadow for fear of possible aggressors.

    This topic has come up in a few other threads and it has seemed to be met with universal acclaim. Obviously it isn't possible to please everyone with the exact rules but with what is detailed below I am confident that everyone will be scared to death of playing there which is exactly the point.

    Custom rules:
    • Permanent Death: ON. Return to life limit: constitution score. "Raise Dead"= -1 permanent con.
    • Friendly Fire: ON. Watch where you shoot that fireball! (PCs only).
    • Normal Fortification items: 75% effectiveness on hard, 50% effectiveness on elite/epic.
    • Casual/Normal Difficulty: OFF
    • Hard Difficulty: Only available for wilderness quests (see below for reason).
    • Slayer XP: Disabled except for first time explorer and rares (no repeats).
    • Any overlevel penalty: 0 XP
    • Any repeat penalty: 0 XP
    • Bravery Bonus: OFF
    • First time Bonus: OFF (though first time still suspends repeat penalties)
    • Quest end rewards: Only available if you also receive XP.
    • Ransack status: Permanent (doesn't reset after 7 days).
    • Lesser tomes of learning: restricted to TR1 characters
    • Greater tomes of learning: restricted to TR2 characters
    • Immunities: Immunity granting items/spells can become "overloaded" and cease to function.
    • Persistent effects: Reinstated: no special treatment for PCs in regards to duration of effects.
    • Account options: Disabled. Favour unlocks only. Premium race OR class available to TR1 character if you own it. Premium race and class possible for TR2 character if you own it.
    • RP: Mandatory (enforcement method tbd).
    • Chest loot: BTC on equip or entering a public area (can only AH items from breakables).
    • Legacy item: ON. 1 designated item (that wouldn't normally be bound on live servers) is available to a new character (not preexisting) on the death of your character.
    • Corpse loot: ON. If you have access to a corpse you may take 1 item from it that is available and wouldn't be bound on live servers.
    • All items available for purchase are marked up by 1000% (so a raise dead scroll would be 5000 plat or more - if this markup isn't enough then it can be increased).
    • Using exploits is a bannable offence (no second chances)
    • PVP: ON.
    • Airship buffs: OFF (except for experience shrine and a new renown bonus shrine that is unique to each progressive ship). Amenities: OFF (except for guild chest). Guild Ships are weapons of war.


    PvP obviously requires its own topic. The biggest issue with any niche is server is lack of universal appeal. The idea with this set of rules is that more niche audiences will be able to find a home there hopefully rising the population to the level where it is viable.

    It is intended that a person who doesn't want to engage in PvP generally shouldn't have to except for a small exposure (1% or once per life or something similar).

    PvP rules:
    • Everybody is anonymous on login, certain evil actions can affect your anonymous status.
    • In all public areas PvP is possible if certain conditions are met.
    • In all wilderness areas PvP is possible as multiple parties can be placed in the same instance.
    • Taverns, churches, crafting halls and possibly other places are designated "safe". At most, only non-lethal pvp can occur here (everyone loves a good tavern brawl).
    • Engaging in PvP can affect your alignment in all 4 directions depending on the nature of it.
    • The lower a characters constitution score the more evil it is to kill them.
    • Killing an evil character is generally not evil though it is chaotic if they plead for mercy.
    • In all cases it will be possible to engage in non-lethal (subdual) pvp if desired.
    • Guild wars are complete with a scheduled airship battle. Non-evil guilds cannot be engaged without consent.


    Regarding public areas:
    • Changing instances is only possible at map transitions
    • If your guild doesn't have an airship you can only use lethal damage against someone against their will if they or their guild are evil. You may use subdual (non-lethal) damage though this is chaotic and they may defend themselves with lethal force (though that would be evil).
    • If your guild has an airship you can demand payment (mug someone), attack them and so forth.
    • You represent your guild at all times and your actions will reflect upon it (and possibly open it up for reprisals).
    • NPC's such as guards will interfere in player PvP if they witness it. Illegal PvP during daylight hours should be very difficult (unless you can find a dark alley without witnesses) but at night NPCs are limited by the radius of their light sources and there are less patrols. PCs can follow along with NPC patrols for safety or bribe them for an escort to a particular location (or perhaps away from a certain location).
    • Affordable Life insurance is available for public areas but is void if you die while engaged in illegal acts (murder/attempted murder/robbery etc). Bodies are collected promptly by local authorities to prevent the spread of disease (this makes it quite dangerous to attack someone illegally as if you die you may be permanently dead while they will be raised in good time). If you have fines or charges outstanding then they will have to be resolved before your body will be released to be raised (by your guild or loved ones).
    • Any spells cast (or similar) in public areas will often have fines or sanctions associated with them for damage or public nuisance.
    • Murder is a punishable offense. However, you can never remember the moments before you died though it might be possible to bring charges against someone if witnesses can be gathered (PC and NPC).
    • Engaging someone against their will will result in a delay depending on level difference, alignment and class to give them an opportunity to get away if appropriate.


    For a player wanting to avoid PvP:
    • Don't enter wilderness areas. This might make it harder to level up but if you are determined then that is an option available to you.
    • Don't enter wilderness areas when it is likely that other people will be there. Only go into wilderness areas late at night when the server is quiet or pick wilderness areas that people don't often go into (like sorrowdusk).
    • Only go into wilderness areas when you have an escape route handy (like dimension door or teleport).
    • Play a lawful good character. The consequences to a player both intrinsically (their aura) and extrinsically (the repercussions in the law should they be caught) are harsher when the crime is against a more lawful and good character (and even worse if it is a paladin). (This adds a nice level of challenge due to the disadvantages in PvE for choosing good/lawful alignment.)
    • Be part of a lawful good aligned guild.
    • Stay in safe areas (or quests) during the night and try to travel within sight of NPC enforcement bodies (guards) when possible.


    Possible additions:
    • New skills: More skills to choose from makes building a character harder
    • Sense Motive: more time to get away from an aggressor
    • Gather information: find someone
    • Disguise: disguise yourself


    I think this about sums it up.

    Guilds will be of utmost importance on such a server as they will serve as your protection and as a deterrence against unwanted harassment.

    Getting to level 20 with the fortification and immunity adjustments in itself will be a significant accomplishment. TR'ing and raiding will be so fraught with risk that it is highly unlikely that anyone will end up with any significant amount of raid gear.

    PvP griefing will of course happen but there will be a finely tuned system in place to manipulate players actions to create a positive environment. If a powerful guild was to go to war with another it could devastate the entire server.

    Wilderness areas (and the hard difficulty quests, explorers and rares that they contain) will be avoided by those who don't want to engage in PvP. Accessing these quests will be a big deal due to less relative risk compared to the elite quests accessed through public areas.

    Overall, this will be exciting, fun and end the ongoing feeling that the game is becoming too easy.

    Pros:
    All the PvP players will leave your server.
    All the PD players will have a place to call home.
    No one will complain about the game being too easy.

    Cons:
    1 more server
    Scripting ... (some possibly complicated adjustments here I know)

    Edit: Totally overhauled the suggestion.
    Last edited by wax_on_wax_off; 05-07-2012 at 08:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    Yeah.. that's not gonna happen.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Custom rules:
    1. Permanent Death enabled. If your character dies then he is dead. If your character receives a raise dead spell then his constitution is permanently lowered by 1 point. If your character is brought back by a resurrect/true resurrect spell then his constitution isn't lowered but it still counts against his maximum amount of raises (which is starting constitution + level ups + tomes).
    /summon mental image of 'need a rez' lfms...

  4. #4
    Community Member jojje_b's Avatar
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    the idea is awesome, but the combination of permadeath, free pvp, friendly fire and extreme difficulties.... i like all of those ideas but together its simply too much for this game. it just wouldnt be fun to play since no matter how skilled or well thought of you are you will be hit in the back by some griefer's fireball at some point.

    permadeath by itself is enuf to make the game really friggin hard and ill accept putting the extreme difficulties in there as well. but add the free pvp and friendly fire it becomes unplayable.

    on the other hand if u dont do permadeath then its ok to put all the other things together and still have a playable server
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  5. #5
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    No thank you to niche-rule servers.


    I mean, were this Super Difficult Server to be implemented - why not also implement a Super Casual Server. A server where grind is reduced because the loot tables have a permanent +5 to all chests. A server where you have a drop-menu on all collectables and you could select the exact one you want or need. A server that has a permanent 1000% XP boost, like the recent one that was on Llama Land. And every third raid was treated as a twentieth run.

    Or, why not a Super RP Server - where all characters had to swear to and abide by role playing requirements, and those who stray can be permabanned from said server.

    I can also envision a Super Zerg Server, where Dungeon Alert is turned off - and there is an XP bonus that decays the longer you stay in a quest, encouraging you to finish as soon as possible - and the person to get to the end of the quest first gets an even bigger XP boost as well as a loot bonus.




    Niche Rule servers would be a pain to implement, a pain to Q&A thus delaying new content releases, and most likely not cost effective as the population on them would be super-low.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Lordress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    No thank you to niche-rule servers.


    I mean, were this Super Difficult Server to be implemented - why not also implement a Super Casual Server. A server where grind is reduced because the loot tables have a permanent +5 to all chests. A server where you have a drop-menu on all collectables and you could select the exact one you want or need. A server that has a permanent 1000% XP boost, like the recent one that was on Llama Land. And every third raid was treated as a twentieth run.

    Or, why not a Super RP Server - where all characters had to swear to and abide by role playing requirements, and those who stray can be permabanned from said server.

    I can also envision a Super Zerg Server, where Dungeon Alert is turned off - and there is an XP bonus that decays the longer you stay in a quest, encouraging you to finish as soon as possible - and the person to get to the end of the quest first gets an even bigger XP boost as well as a loot bonus.




    Niche Rule servers would be a pain to implement, a pain to Q&A thus delaying new content releases, and most likely not cost effective as the population on them would be super-low.


    I agree, on every point. /not signed.
    Owner of ..Chopstix, Colleena Bloodcup, and various other "level 7's"

  7. #7
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    All spells should be allowed in all public areas. no exceptions, it's simply not fair to spell casters of all types if that is the case.
    All special pvp rules should be removed and spells should work as written.
    I want to be able to throw finger of death or slay liing on you while you are stood at the bank.
    I want my bard to be able to mezz you using his perform skill so you can only save on a 20.
    I want my Hold person to last the full duration, none of this ongoing saves nonesense that is for carebear players.
    I want to be able to coup-de-grace you while you are held - or at least have auto-crit back.
    I want to be able to loot your corpse and take your stuff after you are dead.

    OK, all of the above is a lie.

    I want developers to spend zero time on such a proposal.

  8. #8
    Community Member Alabore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojje_b View Post
    the idea is awesome, but the combination of permadeath, free pvp, friendly fire and extreme difficulties.... i like all of those ideas but together its simply too much for this game.
    Well, the OP put it plainly: it's meant to punish players who claim the game is too easy.

    ...

    Which is interesting, once you put it back into perspective.
    Players protest when devs nerf chars/gear, but they also complain when devs streamline or simplify quests or remove threats.

    ...

    You're never going to make all of them happy, ever...
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  9. #9
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    This idea has been brought up, time and time again.

    From Perma Death servers, to Hard Core Servers. From Casual Servers to PvP servers. The idea of flavor servers has been an ongoing theme on this forum.

    The OP's idea is no better or worse then any of the other many ideas I have seen on this topic.

  10. #10
    Community Member JPDefault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrix View Post
    I want my Hold person to last the full duration, none of this ongoing saves nonesense that is for carebear players.
    I want to be able to coup-de-grace you while you are held - or at least have auto-crit back.
    I want to be able to loot your corpse and take your stuff after you are dead.
    Hey, I actually like these three proposals

    But, seriously, for as much as I like Permadeath, I'm against a PD server. You would just see people farming everything on Normal, overlevel and twinked to stay safe.
    I used to play UO where there was/is a "hardcore" server, but that wouldn't work in DDO.
    If anything, I'd make a low magic server where just everything you pick up is BtC, but then I'd find just myself and probably two other crazy people playing there.

    Turbine knows how many people would be interested in a new server with special rules - I'm fairly sure they conduct surveys. If we have a new language-specific server instead of a PD server there must be a reason.
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  11. #11
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Good feedback. All in there though, it just isn't scary enough unless you are terrified everywhere that you go (guild ships and taverns being the safe places).

    The main reason to include all the options is to cater for as wide an audience as possible. Including PD isn't going to discourage PVPers and vice versa, they'll just take it as an added level of difficulty and roll with it.

    I'd even go further and add guild renown rewards for PvP kills.
    The value of a target will be influenced by certain factors:
    1. Amount of kills the target has (worth more the more kills they have so the griefers will very quickly learn their limits)
    2. Amount of times the target has died (value halves after first death and goes down from there)
    3. Level of the target (with an additional modifier for difference in level of the killer).
    4. Total XP gained by the target (to account for possible TR's)
    5. Guild of the target (higher level guilds mean higher risk but better reward)
    6. Rank of the target in their guild.

    The top ~3 targets should be known at any given time (top 3 in zone, world etc) whether by marking on the minimap permanently or temporarily or another method to provide temptation.

    I'd say that if you should kill a Level 20 Legendary Character that has never died you should instantly level your guild to 100 and use that as a base figure for the reward (not that such a character would ever exist on such a server).

    Ideally I'd like to add the additional rule that the store is disabled to prevent pay to win but Turbine has to make money somehow so this wouldn't be practical though some limitations should be imposed.

    The plan wouldn't be to level a character without dying. It would more be along the lines of see how far we get, maybe THIS character will make it high enough that when he should die in a quest maybe there will be a cleric there to raise him.

    And no raise meh lfms. Well, maybe. Either the clerics doing the rounds end up very well paid or as soon as you die no one can enter the adventure.

    I'd probably remove any scroll shop or such thing too which has an affect over level 2 or 3 (no buying raise dead or teleport scrolls).

  12. #12
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPDefault View Post
    Hey, I actually like these three proposals

    But, seriously, for as much as I like Permadeath, I'm against a PD server. You would just see people farming everything on Normal, overlevel and twinked to stay safe.
    I used to play UO where there was/is a "hardcore" server, but that wouldn't work in DDO.
    If anything, I'd make a low magic server where just everything you pick up is BtC, but then I'd find just myself and probably two other crazy people playing there.

    Turbine knows how many people would be interested in a new server with special rules - I'm fairly sure they conduct surveys. If we have a new language-specific server instead of a PD server there must be a reason.
    i'd be on your low magic server in a heartbeat. unfortunately, i don't see it happening for the same
    reason that the ops idea will never happen:

    it would be two different games that the devs would have to work on. and frankly they have their hands full
    with one game.
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  13. #13
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPDefault View Post
    Hey, I actually like these three proposals

    But, seriously, for as much as I like Permadeath, I'm against a PD server. You would just see people farming everything on Normal, overlevel and twinked to stay safe.
    I used to play UO where there was/is a "hardcore" server, but that wouldn't work in DDO.
    If anything, I'd make a low magic server where just everything you pick up is BtC, but then I'd find just myself and probably two other crazy people playing there.

    Turbine knows how many people would be interested in a new server with special rules - I'm fairly sure they conduct surveys. If we have a new language-specific server instead of a PD server there must be a reason.
    I said that casual and normal were disabled in the OP.

    I'd happily extend that to nerfing the xp of quests in general but bumping up first time/bravery bonus. Could also increase over level xp penalties exponentially.

    Main reason that I've suggested this idea is that I'm worried that DDO is being tweaked too much to cater for the casual player and is at risk of losing the interest of players that like a challenge. Somebody suggested casual, easy or loot full niche servers but I think that is what we have already on every server ... (or at least it is going that way).

    You can't please everyone of course, but you can make a quality game that will stand the test of time (you can figure out what that means in relation to the current state and direction of the game and how this server would ft with that).

    Lack of audience is one of the key concerns in my proposal.
    As such, I've tried to get as many niche audiences into the net as possible:
    PvPers and anyone who likes a PvP shake down occasionally
    PDers
    Extreme challenge nuts

    Come on, who wouldn't want to try this, just for the challenge?

  14. #14
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    PS by default this would be a low magic world due to the loss of gear whenever a character dies so that's another audience neatly caught in the net.

  15. #15

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    The main problem with this is the expense of programming and maintaining a server for an extremely small segment of the DDO community.

    In other words the chance that this server would increase revenue would be fairly small and thus not worth the effort financially.
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  16. #16
    Community Member JPDefault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I said that casual and normal were disabled in the OP.
    True, and I wouldn't be against it, but you'd also have to give 0 XP for repeating same difficulty and 0 XP for being even just 1 level above the quest.

    Also, I still think PvP and PD don't mix, especially in public areas Can't you see the level 20 assassin sneak-killing the level 2s just out of Korthos to steal their few coppers, or just to laugh at their ghosts? I can. Newb-killing happened a lot in UO's old days.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    I think it would just be easier to put up a new server that got wiped every 7 days. Characters, shared banks, favor, everything.

    The achievements forum would be interesting to read, that's for sure.
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  18. #18
    Community Member Gnorbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidius View Post
    I think it would just be easier to put up a new server that got wiped every 7 days. Characters, shared banks, favor, everything.

    The achievements forum would be interesting to read, that's for sure.
    ...and every account can only create one character per server reset. It becomes a giant game of survivor. THAT actually sounds fun. Week to week they could change the XP curve so different level content becomes the primary content for the next week just to take the "tuck in the Harbor" feel out of the whole thing.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    There is no doubt in my mind that a super difficult server would be full of LFMs for casual loot runs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  20. #20
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    If you want a challenge, play on the new server that just opened up.

    Most people there did not transfer there, so PuGs are full of nonTRs with bad gear which makes quests much harder to do.

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