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  1. #1
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default Gnomes: It's time.

    So I've just been reading 1975 things Mr. Welch can no longer do during an RPG and I've come to realise 1 important fact: We Need Gnomes.

    So let's get Gnomes into the game and not just as a race but as an f2p race too! Ok, ok, I hear what you're saying but hear me out ok?

    Firstly, the balance between f2p and p2p content is getting more and more out of whack. We have 4 f2p races and 4 p2p races (or favour unlock). It would just start to leave a sour taste in the communities mouth if it should come to pass in the future that there are more p2p races than there is f2p ones.

    Secondly, Gnome would be easy to code and simple to implement. Simply take the halfling model, give it a bigger nose, rounder ears, slightly fatter and you're done (ok perhaps a little more tweaking but in general it should be fine). We would need some more Dragonmarks and to figure out some enhancements for them but nothing too complicated.

    Thirdly, I don't see that Gnome would ever be a massive revenue raiser. They are never going to be a massive DPS race and their preferred class is bard of all things. Overall, they will bring some nice flavour to the game and people will love to play them but only a specific group of people would go out and buy them straight away (not enough to warrant them being p2p only, imo).

    /sign if you agree, discussions on what attributes Gnomes should have would be welcome too (from 3.5/4e eberron only).

  2. #2
    Community Member EustaceTrevelyan's Avatar
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    I promise i'll eventually read that whole list, but tl;dr for me and tell me who the heck Mr Welch is?



    *Oh, and /signed on the gnome issue, my horc is sick of Halfling Surprise.

  3. #3
    Community Member The_Brave2's Avatar
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    /Signed for Gnomes
    /Unsigned for f2p

    f2p is for people to try out the game and eventually subscribe, no more content is needed. Adding more f2p content isn't going to raise money for turbine, so there would be no draw for them to implement Gnomes.
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  4. #4
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    /signed (Gnome)

    I also agree that it should not be F2P. F2P should not give you anymore than the original foundations of DnD, the original 4 races no more. Same should apply to classes I think but it is too late for that.

    Now I am not up to date on Gnomes but dont they come with bonus WIS? I have been waiting for a WIS race for ages.

    As for the model you can start by scaling down the dwarf. After all that is basicaly what a Gnome is. Cleaner Beards though.

    I would like to see a proposed stat line and starting feets.

  5. #5
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    /signed for gnomes

    I would handle them like elves when it comes to payment. I think a plain vanilla gnome is too bland to expect more than a few folks to pay for it (+2 Con and -2 Str I think). I think they aught to roll them out with Svirfneblin and make that the P2P version.

    I might pay for the Svirf but I doubt I would for the regular one.

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  6. #6
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    /signed for Gnomes

    and as for F2P, I guess

    But only if they add Kalashtar as P2P at same time... cause it doesn't take a Kalashtar to know that'd rule!

  7. #7
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwane_Diblie View Post
    /signed (Gnome)

    I also agree that it should not be F2P. F2P should not give you anymore than the original foundations of DnD, the original 4 races no more. Same should apply to classes I think but it is too late for that.

    Now I am not up to date on Gnomes but dont they come with bonus WIS? I have been waiting for a WIS race for ages.

    As for the model you can start by scaling down the dwarf. After all that is basicaly what a Gnome is. Cleaner Beards though.

    I would like to see a proposed stat line and starting feets.
    In regards to f2p vs p2p I feel that part of the draw to DDO is the appearance of a game that can be played and enjoyed without paying anything. This feeling that Turbine has tried to create for new players is important for their revenue as it keeps them playing until they are hooked which leads to eventual spending.

    However, when you start to find that not only a majority of the quests can't be played but also that there is a huge list of "purchaseable" races and in comparison not many free to play races this illusion is broken and the ability to hook players will be affected.

    It is obvious that Turbine feels the same way which is why they have continued to add f2p content occasionally (though usually with a p2p hook like with the Sora Katra crafting).

    I could see there being some catches involved but just as a general theme I think that for such a niche race you'll get more revenue from the good will that making it f2p would generate compared to slugging each person an upfront cost for playing the race.

    On to traits/enhancements ...

    Relevant Gnome traits according to d20 SRD.

    Code:
        +2 Constitution, -2 Strength.
        Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
        Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons.
        +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
        Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects, such as the Spell Focus feat.
        +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids (including goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears).
        +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants).
        +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
        +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
        Spell-Like Abilities: None that are in or relevant to DDO.
        Favored Class: Bard.
    I could see it as being possible to add +1 con (and corresponding +30 HP from racial toughness), +1 dexterity (as they seem kind of nimble like) and +1 intelligence. They don't seem an all or nothing race like others. They would be acquired similar to human adaptability.

    I could see an enhancement line being attached to most of those current racial traits and many of them are duplicates of what other races get. Perhaps Craft (alchemy) could translate into something similar to what Artificers get (and stacking with; making them the best Artificer fleshy healers).

    Instead of the Gnome Hooked Hammer you could say that a Gnome who uses a single Heavy Pick in 1 hand treats it as a two handed weapons at +1 weapon die (like PBS so 2d6 damage or 2d8 for greensteel). This would give Gnomes a nice niche with the only x4 THF'ing weapon.

    The illusion DC bonus could be improved through enhancement (perhaps remove the +1 int idea). This would give Gnomes a nice little niche when it comes to illusion spells (which aren't particularly powerful anyway).

    And that's about all I got Anyone else with some ideas?

  8. #8
    Community Member Perspicacity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post

    I think they aught to roll them out with Svirfneblin and make that the P2P version.
    /signed, and I like this idea ^ although a name that sounds like you sneezed coughed and farted at the same time is hardly user friendly, I think some renaming might be in order. *ducks*

    /on topic, It would be nice to see another normal race and not a walking god race like the WF and HOrcs.

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  9. #9
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    I think they aught to roll them out with Svirfneblin and make that the P2P version.
    Perfect idea! Simply paint them gray and charge through the nose for:

    Code:
        -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma. 
        Stonecunning: This ability grants deep gnomes a +2 racial bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework. A deep gnome who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as though actively searching, and can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can.
        Spell resistance equal to 11 + class levels.
        +2 racial bonus on all saving throws. 
        Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by svirfneblin.
        +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids.
        +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against all creatures
        Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—blindness/deafness (typical save DC 13), blur, disguise self. Caster level equals the svirfneblin’s class levels. The save DC is Charisma-based and include a +4 racial modifier.
        +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) and Listen checks.
        +2 racial bonus on Hide checks, which improves to +4 underground.
        Favored Class: Rogue.
    Obviously some heavy balancing would be required otherwise we'd have a new master race overnight.

  10. #10
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    /sign for gnomes.

    I think gnomes should be f2p as well. I'm not saying so in a self serving way because I'm vip so I would get access to gnomes regardless of their f2p/f2f status. I'm thinking of the p2p races: Drow, Half Elf, Half Orc, and Warforged. These 4 races are more powerful than the f2p races. Gnomes on the other hand wouldn't be. They would probably be on par with the other f2p races in power.

    On a funnier note, or funny to me, I think gnomes should get a racial ability that causes knock back effects to cause them to fly farther back. The ability could be called Vulnerability to Punting or something like that.

  11. #11
    Founder Nysrock's Avatar
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    I hear that Turbine has already leaked some information on Gnomes for possible future content.

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  12. #12
    Community Member Yagi's Avatar
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    sure a gnomish twf barb will be fun. Idc if they are p2p or not. If they are, I'll buy or earn one if not, more little gnomies running around in the harbour, win win for me.
    Two Plus Two makes TwentySeven and I bit your rat in half. What now?

  13. #13
    Community Member Templarion's Avatar
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    No gnomes, thank you. There are already 8 too many classes and at least 3 useless races.

    For flavor? Why not. I don't care but no more new, useless little rules and mechanics - we have already a punch of them.

  14. #14
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Bah they will just make them a buy race only

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  15. #15

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    Gnomes are already in DDO! You just need 150 House Sivis favor to play them.
    Things that if Turbine went all EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on, would actually make the game fun again.:
    • Giving us the racial PrE’s we were promised, before rolling out DDOStore™ Enhancement Trees.
    • Fixing physical defense for Rangers and Rogues. It’s ridiculous that you’re better off wearing Heavy Armor and ignoring your innate feats on these classes.
    • Cannith Crafting.
    • Update the named loot to put them on the same system.
    • Fixing the Cannith Challenges so that they can be 6 starred without incredible luck or store bought items.
    • Fixing all challenges to give us decent XP and ingredient returns for the unreasonable time we have to spend in most of them.

  16. #16
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Gnomes are already in DDO! You just need 150 House Sivis favor to play them.
    Apparently I have to spread some more rep around first ...

    What Dragonmark would Gnomes get? What would its powers be? Anyone have any idea about Gnome enhancements to provide incentive to roll up a bard?

  17. #17
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Instead of making them regular gnomes whos stat modifiers are nigh useless (-2 Str/+2 Con) make them Tinker Gnomes (+2Dex/Int,-2Str/Wis) so we could have a missing stat covered...they would of course get +2 int enhancements (already alot of +2 dex races) as well as enhancements for trapmaking (higher DCs,less material etc.) and have Crossbows as their racial weapons. Than of course the standard gnome stuff like move silently and hide bonuses, size bonus (like halfling), bonuses with illusion spells,etc.

    Personally I'd rather get Lesser Tieflings and Lesser Aasimar (The lesser means their LA:0 thus 32pt enabled) with LT covering Int/Dex (+2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha) and LA covering Wis/Cha (+2 Wis +2 Cha) they could even make them a dual release like half-orcs & half-elves..call it the Planetouched Pack.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-29-2011 at 09:35 AM.
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    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  18. #18
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Gnomes are a core DnD race, and exceptionally important for the Eberron campaign setting in general. Gnomes in some form should be expected to show up at some point, update 13 or 15 maybe.

  19. #19
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Gnomes are a core DnD race, and exceptionally important for the Eberron campaign setting in general. Gnomes in some form should be expected to show up at some point, update 13 or 15 maybe.
    Been over 5 years and gnomes arent here yet nor are shifters which would be even better

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Gnomes are a core DnD race, and exceptionally important for the Eberron campaign setting in general.
    hah... they will never be listed as a core race... otherwise they wouldnt be able to charge vip's for them

    but seriously, MrCow came back... and we all know the cow loves gnomes so he must have heard something

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