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  1. #1
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    Default Explain this to me...

    I'm fairly new to the MMO version of DnD, only a couple of months in. I'm tempted to just ascribe this to general min/maxer MMO-mania but maybe there's some sense to it I am not seeing:

    Ran Sands yesterday with a full PuG - had an awesome cleric on the team with a splash of fighter - healing left and right and always right up there with the melee - I think he was 11/1 Cleric/Fighter but I might be a lvl off. I know he only had one level of fighter. Point is: he was on top of things the whole while.

    Somewhat later, I get picked up by a different team that wants to run Invaders on hard. We have one slot left and the leader wants a "healer"... I had friended this guy so I suggested inviting him and the leader does. Cleric joins us, "Omw...", etc.

    So we're about to enter when the leader says "Battle Clerics suck" and *pop* the cleric is booted from the team.

    Please explain what happened here. I may not know DDO as well as I know the core rules, but it seems like the leader shot us in the foot. We ended up with a "pure" cleric who ran out of spell points repeatedly.

  2. #2
    Community Member Cauthey's Avatar
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    There are some extremely narrow minded individuals that hold much prejudice against certain types of character builds. The person leading your group appears to have been one of those individuals.

  3. #3
    Community Member tkscience's Avatar
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    Absolutely no explanation asides from a bad experience with battle clerics, or believes what some people say on the forums.

    A good player is far more valuable than any particular build.

    Make a special note of the leader, and move on.
    Let's be honest: you don't care who my alts are.
    They are all gimp and I'm cool with that.

  4. #4
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    Had I been the one who gave that recommendation, and that had happened to my friend, I probably would have dropped group, and, depending on how I felt at the moment, I may or may not have commented. Remember the leader's name and don't join their groups in the future.

    Good luck with the game, we're not all jerks.

  5. #5
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonrook View Post
    So we're about to enter when the leader says "Battle Clerics suck" and *pop* the cleric is booted from the team.
    My response would have been this:

    "Leaders who need a healbot suck" and *pop* I drop group.
    .

  6. #6
    Community Member somenewnoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    My response would have been this:

    "Leaders who need a healbot suck" and *pop* I drop group.
    This!

  7. #7
    Community Member Adrian99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkscience View Post
    A good player is far more valuable than any particular build.
    This is probably the single most important thing to understand about grouping. For 99% of quests, nothing in DDO will ever be as powerful as knowledge of the game, the playstyle suited to your build, and the particulars of the quest you're running. The class split and gear layout are a very distant 2nd and 3rd when determining the likelihood of a smooth completion. There is a tendency for new players to fail in taking this fact into consideration.
    On Thelanis: Survo ... Wattr ... Tigerpalm ... Cranefist ... Hobbson ... Grayed ... Shadowstance ... Smashcut

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonrook View Post
    ...
    So we're about to enter when the leader says "Battle Clerics suck" and *pop* the cleric is booted from the team.

    ...
    {shakes head}

    What we have here is (or a combination of):
    1. A person that doesn't understand DDO
    2. A person that has had a bad experience with a "So Called" battle cleric
    3. A person that believes everything they read from "So Called" experts
    4. A person that could not play a cleric themselves and does not understand the class - either based on Other MMO background or because they believe everything they read or are told


    Avoid these types of people, they will be wrong with their assesments most of the time. However, I do wish we could hear more accounts of "Battle Clerics" actually using all of their abilities to benefit the success of their team. Instead we usually get stories of "I don't heal".

    +1 Virtual Rep to the Cleric doing it right. And may they be spared having to deal with these types of people during their time here in Stormreach.

  9. #9
    Community Member Arnhelm's Avatar
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    Ignorance and prejudice on the leader's part, imo. Sad.
    Once upon a time, I was part of a team, and we saved some children. That was long ago and far away, and, yes, I am that old.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    My response would have been this:

    "Leaders who need a healbot suck" and *pop* I drop group.
    Win. If only I could travel back in time.

    Thanks for the replies guys, good to know this isn't a universal trend in the game.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    My response would have been this:

    "Leaders who need a healbot suck" and *pop* I drop group.
    Yeah, I'm with you there

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebonrook View Post
    Win. If only I could travel back in time...
    ... I would do much better in the lottery.
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  13. #13
    Community Member joaofalcao's Avatar
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    Battleclerics have a terrible reputation.

    Personally, I dont refuse them, but everytime I accept one in my partys, I get that feeling I shouldnt have done it.

    You had a good experience, but 9 out of 10 battleclerics dont care to heal anybody other than themselves.

  14. #14
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Pretty much agree with everything said above. I have a friend here who plays a Cleric quite well, and contributes to melee constantly. In fact, even though she's a pure cleric, she has saved the day, fighting her way to a shrine with a backpack full of dead melees, more times than I'd like to count. Great gal.

    That being said, I do have one quibble:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian99 View Post
    This is probably the single most important thing to understand about grouping. For 99% of quests, nothing in DDO will ever be as powerful as knowledge of the game, the playstyle suited to your build, and the particulars of the quest you're running. The class split and gear layout are a very distant 2nd and 3rd when determining the likelihood of a smooth completion. There is a tendency for new players to fail in taking this fact into consideration.
    My problem with this statement is simply that there is an inordinate amount of quests that seem to NEED a strong caster or two. And some that can be done without, but forget the optionals unless. At least it feeeels that way. Have run several melee heavy pugs that have struggled to get past certain tough spots, and then run the same quests with a caster or two and breezed through in no time.

    Just sayin'
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    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Ogre View Post
    My problem with this statement is simply that there is an inordinate amount of quests that seem to NEED a strong caster or two. And some that can be done without, but forget the optionals unless. At least it feeeels that way. Have run several melee heavy pugs that have struggled to get past certain tough spots, and then run the same quests with a caster or two and breezed through in no time.

    Just sayin'
    I have a quibble with this statement. What quests need a caster? Many are easier with a caster (Wiz King, I looks at youse), but they hardly need one.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Adrian99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Ogre View Post
    At least it feeeels that way. Have run several melee heavy pugs that have struggled to get past certain tough spots, and then run the same quests with a caster or two and breezed through in no time.

    Just sayin'
    I agree, it does feel that way for certain quests. But I think it's more the case that for certain quests a caster or two turns the whole thing into one big easy button, allowing you to have 4 or 5 pikers and still get a fast completion. And perhaps 99% was a bit too strong, it's probably more like 90%
    On Thelanis: Survo ... Wattr ... Tigerpalm ... Cranefist ... Hobbson ... Grayed ... Shadowstance ... Smashcut

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    My response would have been this:

    "Leaders who need a healbot suck" and *pop* I drop group.
    fer sure...win on this one.

  18. #18
    Community Member jillie's Avatar
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    I recently TRd my main to a FvS. Last night, saw a pug up for Nx6 repetitions of a GH walkup. Joined the group, asked if it was self-sufficient, was told yes, and happily grabbed my greatsword. Watched the party, and threw heals as needed - mostly on myself or on the party leader - and blade barriers as I saw fit, while meleeing with the pack.

    Only one death in the 5 reps before my computer totally locked up (needing a reboot), and that was an unexpected cast of Disintegrate that nailed the party leader. Raised, Healed, and we went on through the quest ...

    Note that I had a healing lore/devotion item available in case of need, and a couple of sup ardor clickies at hand to boot, and sundry other items that would allow me to switch roles if needed. If I'm going to run as the sole divine caster in a group, then I know that most of the party members will look to me for healing; if they don't need much, then kudos to them, and I'll enjoy decimating the mobs. But I feel I should be prepared for the possibility of say, three people missing saves on an AoE spell or the like ... being able to drop back to healbot for a few minutes is simply using abilities that divine casters have to help the party in completing our shared goals.

    The party leader that the OP talks about may have met one of the battle-casters who ignores the rest of the party, seeming to not care that the melees doing much of the damage are at under 50% health and likely to die in the next fight ... we don't all play it that way, though!
    Proud officer of Imperial Assassins!

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  19. #19
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    unfortunately you will find a *lot* of very narrow-minded leaders out there. They aren't necessarily bad people, but can be quite frustrating to group with - especially with petty things they are heavily misinformed on (such as needing an *exact* party makeup for a raid, will not tolerate newer players in their groups, will be prejudiced towards builds without knowing all the details, ect..)

    Every time I see an lfm up with nothing but "no noobs", it reminds me why I'm in such a big guild that takes the first 11 people who say "rfi" in guild chat, regardless of what class they are playing
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  20. #20
    Community Member Rauven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somenewnoob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    My response would have been this:

    "Leaders who need a healbot suck" and *pop* I drop group.
    This!
    You forgot /squelch add [player name] and move on.

    Note, I am being facetious with a healthy dose of sarcasm.
    Last edited by Rauven; 08-24-2011 at 03:38 PM.

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