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  1. #21
    Community Member spear67's Avatar
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    I find alot of use for crafting, in making accessories that would take me forever to find in loot drops, or even via the auction house.

    I was always finding enchantments on rings, where I liked the prefix, but the suffix was useless. Or 3 necklaces with 3 different buffs I'd like to use, but I want all 3 at the same time.

    I do also agree with what some people have said, the 40/40/40 point is a good place for any self-crafter to stop grinding. A guild crafter (with support of the guild) should max out, because they're making items for other people.

    The system is not usable by the true noob. but a casual player can make themselves some pretty OK gear if they try. And a dedicated crafter can make some good items, even if they do fall short of epic/greensteel items. which is fine, there shouldn't be a match for those items under the Canith Crafting.

    my 2 coppers, putting the soapbox away now.

  2. #22
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puget View Post
    Absolutely it wouldn't stop me from playing the game. But the fact I saw LDS in one recipe...
    OMG, 1 large devil scale!?

    Seriously, as I commented above... it takes 5 LDS to craft either a Lit2 or a Min2 greensteel. 1 LDS is a bargain for a DR-breaker vastly superior to a Min2. But as many have already pointed out, a +4 Holy Bane weapon is already better DPS than a Min2.

    If you're complaining just to complain, I'll drop it. But any new, casual, or solo player who doesn't take advantage of Cannith Crafting does so at their detriment...

    But if you want to write off Cannith Crafting, please do sell off your mats for cheap. Some of us have already capped in crafting levels and need greater essences to make stuff for our friends and guildies.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  3. #23
    Community Member Khanyth's Avatar
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    I haven't been around much and haven't Cannith crafted at all.... but I just have one question:

    How is it that these craftables are better DPS than a Min II? I just can't wrap my head around it.... Metaline >>>> Cold Iron. And shouldn't the keen and slicing >>> GOB? Or am I off base here.

    Not picking on anyone nor debating.... just politely asking.

  4. #24
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanyth View Post
    How is it that these craftables are better DPS than a Min II? I just can't wrap my head around it.... Metaline >>>> Cold Iron. And shouldn't the keen and slicing >>> GOB? Or am I off base here..
    Very few characters actually make use of the Keen on a MinII. If you do, then yeah, the MinII is probably better. But assuming Imp. Crit:

    A +5 Holy Burst Silver of GLOB is better DPS against Devil bosses than a MinII, by far. Better than anything but a Devil's Ruin slotted ESoS. And possibly still better due to the 50% fortification. Even a +4 Holy Silver of LOB matches or slightly exceeds a MinII there.

    So when people say that the craftable is better than a MinII, what we mean is that it is better for the vast majority of melee characters, facing most of the enemies a MinII is worth using against.

    A MinII is, however, very good against the Demon Queen. But she's hardly worth spending 5 Devil Scales just to fight her. A +5 Holy Burst Cold Iron of GCOB is more than enough. Or even just a +4 Holy Cold Iron of COB.

    Those scales are better spent on a LitII, which matches or exceeds every crafted weapon, and hugely exceeds a MinII, vs. the vast majority of enemies in the game.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanyth View Post
    I haven't been around much and haven't Cannith crafted at all.... but I just have one question:

    How is it that these craftables are better DPS than a Min II? I just can't wrap my head around it.... Metaline >>>> Cold Iron. And shouldn't the keen and slicing >>> GOB? Or am I off base here.

    Not picking on anyone nor debating.... just politely asking.
    I was wondering too. I mean if you want to use holy silver lol and you want the benefit of keen you will have to take the feat..no?
    **********KNIGHTSOFSHADOW ***********
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  6. #26
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joneb1999 View Post
    I was wondering too. I mean if you want to use holy silver lol and you want the benefit of keen you will have to take the feat..no?
    Any melee that doesn't take Imp. Crit is giving up a lot of DPS.

    You might do it if you're just meleeing on the side on a healer or caster, but no serious melee should give up the feat.

    Sticking to a MinII at all times is not a recipe for good DPS vs. anything but a few bosses.

  7. #27
    Community Member Milfeulle's Avatar
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    I use my crafting geats mostly for TR.
    Khyber - Pilchards: Milfeulle (Completionist Sorc), Milreaf/Millefeuille/Mireiyu(20 drone Wiz), Eweca (20 Wiz at life 5)
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  8. #28
    Community Member puget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keybreaker View Post
    OMG, 1 large devil scale!?

    Seriously, as I commented above... it takes 5 LDS to craft either a Lit2 or a Min2 greensteel. 1 LDS is a bargain for a DR-breaker vastly superior to a Min2. But as many have already pointed out, a +4 Holy Bane weapon is already better DPS than a Min2.

    If you're complaining just to complain, I'll drop it. But any new, casual, or solo player who doesn't take advantage of Cannith Crafting does so at their detriment...

    But if you want to write off Cannith Crafting, please do sell off your mats for cheap. Some of us have already capped in crafting levels and need greater essences to make stuff for our friends and guildies.

    Like I said. Until they decide what they are going to do with crafting, I won't waste my time. And if read my other posts.......I play solo, so the *chance* at getting even 1 LDS is not high, let alone getting 5 of them. And that is just one of the few raid ings I saw.

    Sell them cheap? Now why would I want to do that?

  9. #29
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puget View Post
    Like I said. Until they decide what they are going to do with crafting, I won't waste my time. And if read my other posts.......I play solo, so the *chance* at getting even 1 LDS is not high, let alone getting 5 of them. And that is just one of the few raid ings I saw.
    No Cannith recipe requires 5 LDS.

    It's GS crafting that requires 5 LDS for a MinII.

    The Greater Lawful/Evil Outsider Banes each require only one LDS.

    You might be thinking of the 5 Dragons Blood for Greater Dragon Bane. But those aren't hard to get from Tor. And besides, Greater Dragon Bane is a pretty weak Bane. There aren't that many Dragons.

  10. #30
    Community Member puget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    No Cannith recipe requires 5 LDS.

    It's GS crafting that requires 5 LDS for a MinII.

    The Greater Lawful/Evil Outsider Banes each require only one LDS.

    You might be thinking of the 5 Dragons Blood for Greater Dragon Bane. But those aren't hard to get from Tor. And besides, Greater Dragon Bane is a pretty weak Bane. There aren't that many Dragons.

    Nah, I misinterpreted what he was saying in reply to my old post it seems.


    After what you say here, I think he was trying to say "stop crying, try needing 5 of them" and it fell flat.


    But, I didn't stay on Lam too long after I saw the 1 so.......Did it to myself.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    Any melee that doesn't take Imp. Crit is giving up a lot of DPS.

    You might do it if you're just meleeing on the side on a healer or caster, but no serious melee should give up the feat.

    Sticking to a MinII at all times is not a recipe for good DPS vs. anything but a few bosses.
    What if you don't have the plat, don't care to grind for the crafting ability and the items haven't dropped for you? I'm not talking about being among the hardcore D&D players with optimised weapon sets. That wont happen for me. I'm just fed up with all that stuff, When I get back into the game I want to enjoy it. Farming doesn't do it for me and I think optimising to the nth degree is over rated and not necessary.
    **********KNIGHTSOFSHADOW ***********
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  12. #32
    Community Member puget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joneb1999 View Post
    What if you don't have the plat, don't care to grind for the crafting ability and the items haven't dropped for you? I'm not talking about being among the hardcore D&D players with optimised weapon sets. That wont happen for me. I'm just fed up with all that stuff, When I get back into the game I want to enjoy it. Farming doesn't do it for me and I think optimising to the nth degree is over rated and not necessary.

    Almost identical to my feelings.

  13. #33
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joneb1999 View Post
    What if you don't have the plat, don't care to grind for the crafting ability and the items haven't dropped for you? I'm not talking about being among the hardcore D&D players with optimised weapon sets. That wont happen for me. I'm just fed up with all that stuff, When I get back into the game I want to enjoy it. Farming doesn't do it for me and I think optimising to the nth degree is over rated and not necessary.
    You don't want to grind, and have limited reources, yet you have a MinII? I don't understand.

    The Cannith crafting grind and cost is not nearly as bad as it might look if you only look at the top end. The grind/cost for a MinII-equivalent DPS vs. Pit Fiends Cannith weapon is so much less then what an actual MinII takes that the comparison is nearly impossible to make sensibly.

    And once you craft the cheap devil beater, you can spend your larges on the vastly superior LitII. We're not talking optimising to the nth degree here.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    You don't want to grind, and have limited reources, yet you have a MinII? I don't understand.

    The Cannith crafting grind and cost is not nearly as bad as it might look if you only look at the top end. The grind/cost for a MinII-equivalent DPS vs. Pit Fiends Cannith weapon is so much less then what an actual MinII takes that the comparison is nearly impossible to make sensibly.

    And once you craft the cheap devil beater, you can spend your larges on the vastly superior LitII. We're not talking optimising to the nth degree here.
    Its only a tier 2 min 2 but my barb has a tier 3. Its just that it did take me ages to get those and I dont fancy that grind again. I get the impression the new crafting is just as time consuming but i havent tried, maybe i should. My pc sucks for any quests even on lowest quality but probably crafting wont be affected by bad lag.
    **********KNIGHTSOFSHADOW ***********
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  15. #35
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joneb1999 View Post
    Its only a tier 2 min 2 but my barb has a tier 3. Its just that it did take me ages to get those and I dont fancy that grind again. I get the impression the new crafting is just as time consuming but i havent tried, maybe i should. My pc sucks for any quests even on lowest quality but probably crafting wont be affected by bad lag.
    Yeah, so many people are yelling about the insane grind to 100, and how expensive greater banes are, that how easy it is to get to 35, and craft very useful Holy Silver/Cold Iron Banes gets lost. I could make 20 Holy Silver Banes, distribute them among my characters, and it'd still be easier and cheaper than crafting a single MinII, leveling included.

    That's been my whole point in this thread. You can spend probably 5% or less of the cost to get to 100, and make great things. You just won't get the best things, but you all don't strike me as players obsessed with getting the absolute best things.

  16. #36
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    I could make 20 Holy Silver Banes, distribute them among my characters, and it'd still be easier and cheaper than crafting a single MinII, leveling included.
    20 silver khopeshes, scimitars, rapiers, daxes, falchions, greatswords, greataxes, costing less than a min2?
    Not on any server I've seen.
    Unfamiliar with DDO's combat mechanics? Check here and here.

  17. #37
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickblade007 View Post
    What is the Point in crafting?
    The title of your thread asks the key question and the conclusion of your intial post reflects the opinion of many.

    Crafting was not always in DDO. When it was introduced it was actually very limited and gave, at the time, very powerful items.

    The introduction of even this limited crafting was preceeded by years of player requests for crafting. But, there were some caveats. For example, nobody wanted to go kill thousands of orcs for orc skulls or pick wild berries. That is because DDO is, generally, D&D where the focus is on questing.

    What players wanted were basically two things. First, they wanted a way to make cosmetic changes to their armor and weapons. Simple changes like color choices or helmet style A instead of style B. Next, they wanted a way to make items that held personal value for their way of playing.

    This second type of crafting wasn't really intended to duplicate things that could be gotten by treasure drops or crafted in other areas of the game. Although the cat is out of the bag with holy burst silver of greater evil outsider bane that was not really the intent behind what players were asking for.

    What players wanted was more akin to the trinket that mixed concordant opposition with archmagi spell points -- something that had no other in-game equivalent because the traits would never generate in random loot or because the developers had decided to restrict the traits only to clothing rather than jewelry.

    So the point in crafting, as originally asked for by the players, was to coordinate the look and color of items (we are vain in that regard) and to make things that would be possible in theory but never occur due to how the developers assign various characteristics.

    Turbine, for whatever the reason, has taken what was actually a relatively simple set of requests and turned it into a monster. And, because Turbine decided to beta test on the live server tremendous inequities have developed.

    As is always true with beta testing there are things that worked well and things that worked poorly. Unfortunately, many of the things that worked poorly resulted in powerful items that Turbine did not really mean to let loose into the game. And, it is the "power" gamers who have the drive to farm and earn crafting XP along with the resources to push crafting to its limits who have the high powered gear.

    The reality of beta means that when the mistakes in crafting are found they will be corrected. This is what is happening with recipes. Making the recipes very hard Turbine slows or stops the over-powered crafting. It stops being practical to craft that holy burst silver of greater evil outsider bane and is once again more reasonable to craft greensteel Mineral II weapons.

    This is necessary because without stopping the imbalance Turbine is forced to buff the mobs. That makes quests impractical for those without over-powered gear. It becomes a vicious circle that is soon out of control.

    But, it also means that many players now end up concluding as you have that it has been an incredible waste of time to invest in crafting.

    Turbine's mistake was in putting crafting onto the live server to beta. Because Turbine is a business and profit is their only bottom line, I personally don't think this will stop them from making the same mistake repeatedly.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    The reality of beta means that when the mistakes in crafting are found they will be corrected. This is what is happening with recipes. Making the recipes very hard Turbine slows or stops the over-powered crafting. It stops being practical to craft that holy burst silver of greater evil outsider bane and is once again more reasonable to craft greensteel Mineral II weapons.
    No, +4 holy of regular bane is roughly equivalent DPS to a mineral II, is cheaper to make, and can be churned out in mass quantities for all your alts. Available at crafting level 35/35/0, it's faster to mass produce them than it is to get your first mineral II.

    Crafting's biggest strength is low-ML skill gear for TRs, and +10 skills are in the high 30s to attempt, which is why I recommend leveling to 40/40/40 and stopping.

  19. #39
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    They need to halve the grind needed to start crafting useful items. Period.
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  20. #40
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    No, +4 holy of regular bane is roughly equivalent DPS to a mineral II, is cheaper to make, and can be churned out in mass quantities for all your alts. Available at crafting level 35/35/0, it's faster to mass produce them than it is to get your first mineral II.

    Crafting's biggest strength is low-ML skill gear for TRs, and +10 skills are in the high 30s to attempt, which is why I recommend leveling to 40/40/40 and stopping.
    If Turbine changes the recipe it won't be. Which, of course, is my point. Crafting isn't really intended to give low-cost competition to existing systems so it really isn't the intent to allow cheap crafting of weapons that are roughly equivalent to greensteel.

    This is evident in the changed recipes that elicited such an outcry from the players.

    FWIW, +4 holy silver of lawful outsider bane is likely better DPS than Min II as it is effectively a +6 weapon generating an additonal 3d6 damage at the very least. The extra damage rapidly overcomes the die step difference of greensteel. And, against Harry who has acid resistance the elemental damage might as well be zero on a Min II. That means, against the mobs where it is of most value, the cannith crafted weapon is likely better.

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