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  1. #21
    Community Member TheRealest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    Comments in yellow
    perfect as in say i'm leveling and going through gianthold would i like a giant bane weapon, ya. Would that be game breaking not necessarily. But being able to make an item thats not a +1 giant bane greatsword of vertigo...why your trip dc is low. Make a weapon that isn't keen when you have the Improved critical feat. This is what i mean by perfect. Not an all out overwhelmingly good item, but an item tailored to what you want it to do. And some effort was a little lax perhaps, it isn't just some effort it's quite a bit, and the cost is generally far more than just buying a randomly generated weapon would be.
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  2. #22
    Community Member TheRealest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    It was easy. It was a time consuming grind, but that's all it was.
    Really depends on your definition of easy. Ask some of the vets who can solo anything they want and have what raid loot they want, they'll tell you the whole game's easy. A new player would say kobold assault is hard. If you didn't have alot of time to give to the grind was it hard to level crafting ya it was.
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  3. #23
    Community Member TheRealest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khurse View Post
    AS mentioned seevral times around the forums, this isn't even close to being true.
    +5 HB Greater banes are better than GS on anything with decent DR/immune to Lightning
    + 4 Attack are not *better* than Epic, but is a bonus previously only available through grinding epic gear.
    33% Lightning/Fire absorption again aren't better than a T3 GS item, but they are better than any T2 GS item for that purpose and are a heck of alot cheaper.

    I like the crafting mechanisms, I like the idea that creating a +5 Holy Burst Item of Greater Yadda Whatever Bane is expensive.
    I realize that many other players don't feel they should have to work to craft the top tier items, but I've yet to see any compelling argument as to why crafting should be kept as easy as it was/made easier.

    Don't get me wrong (although not mentioned in this thread) stuff like BTC favor rewards should not be crafting ingredients in my opinion, but I see no problem with letting people who do play the entirety of the game have more crafting options available to them than those who don't.
    Seem to be misunderstood here. Is any ONE weapon better as a general go to weapon than some gs/epics? I'll personally keep my eSoS out nonstop until i go somewhere where i can get better dps. But against specific enemies the banes are better. Again SPECIFIC enemies. If not used against that enemy its just a general +5 (dr break) holy burst weapon.
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  4. #24
    Community Member joueur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countfitz View Post
    Yeah, what a waste of time and plat. It was beta, they did warn us, so for once I can't blame Turbine.
    Yeah sure but afaik the game is not in beta.

    Stuff in beta should stay on Mournlands or Lamannia. Paying customers are not beta testers.
    Started playing the awesome game 07/19/2009

  5. #25
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealest View Post
    perfect as in say i'm leveling and going through gianthold would i like a giant bane weapon, ya. Would that be game breaking not necessarily. But being able to make an item thats not a +1 giant bane greatsword of vertigo...why your trip dc is low. Make a weapon that isn't keen when you have the Improved critical feat. This is what i mean by perfect. Not an all out overwhelmingly good item, but an item tailored to what you want it to do. And some effort was a little lax perhaps, it isn't just some effort it's quite a bit, and the cost is generally far more than just buying a randomly generated weapon would be.
    This is the type of thing that came to my mind when crafting was first mentioned. With all the attention that hb of glob is getting, I really didn't consider some of the lower level enemies. I don't recall what the increased requirements for the other banes were. I agree that it would be nice to craft level appropriate stuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealest View Post
    Really depends on your definition of easy. Ask some of the vets who can solo anything they want and have what raid loot they want, they'll tell you the whole game's easy. A new player would say kobold assault is hard. If you didn't have alot of time to give to the grind was it hard to level crafting ya it was.
    I think there's a huge difference in time consuming and hard. Crafting is time consuming... understanding quantum physics is hard.

  6. #26
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealest View Post


    1.Soul Gems
    Really dont like this. Neither of my sorcs has the spell, and I dont think they'll be taking it. Besides, i craft everything for my melees, other than one item which was a rad item for my evoker. I dont want to here epic souleater mentioned or some other nonsense. What point does it make to gimp your gear sometimes to make better gear other times?
    If these are now an integral part of crafting, good. One of the few smart additions to crafting, as it stimulates some player activity and not just random luck drop / ddo store.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    It was easy. It was a time consuming grind, but that's all it was.
    It's akin to weight loss. Just diet and exercise, it's easy!

  8. #28
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    It's akin to weight loss. Just diet and exercise, it's easy!
    lol. I wish weight loss was that simple

    Seriously though, what's so difficult about leveling up in crafting? Break down stuff for essences (or buy them) and craft. I hit mid 60s in all three schools just before they shut it down and it wasn't hard to do. It was certainly time consuming and you lose the money from vendor trash, but that's about it.

  9. #29
    Community Member TheRealest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    lol. I wish weight loss was that simple

    Seriously though, what's so difficult about leveling up in crafting? Break down stuff for essences (or buy them) and craft. I hit mid 60s in all three schools just before they shut it down and it wasn't hard to do. It was certainly time consuming and you lose the money from vendor trash, but that's about it.
    Since you seem to want to play devils advocate, let me try. What's really hard in this game? Epics? Time Consuming, just farming scrolls. Leveling? Time Consuming, just grinding xp. Getting rare raid loot? Time Consuming, hittin' the chests again and again. People play games for two reasons, for the social environment or for the sense of accomplishment which isn't 'hard' merely a skinner box.
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  10. #30
    Community Member simo0208's Avatar
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    I will craft until I have to put in TP points or break down stuff I would actually use, then I will stop at whatever level I got.

    I like to craft underwater action rings (level 5 req, nice) for my toons to avoid having to buy something or grind for boots of the mire in red fens. I plan on crafting ff rings as well if I can manage to get to the appropriate level. Everything outside of nice little buffs or side gear like that is just a waste of resources at this point. No uber weapon for me I guess.

  11. #31
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealest View Post
    Since you seem to want to play devils advocate, let me try. What's really hard in this game? Epics? Time Consuming, just farming scrolls. Leveling? Time Consuming, just grinding xp. Getting rare raid loot? Time Consuming, hittin' the chests again and again. People play games for two reasons, for the social environment or for the sense of accomplishment which isn't 'hard' merely a skinner box.
    Point taken, but there are more challenging ways to play the game: trying to figure out the content without using the wiki the first time you run it... short manning quests... trying out different builds... doing the shroud and reaver puzzles without a solver...

    I like epics because it requires a greater level of teamwork and coordination. If they ever fix some of the easy buttons in some of the epic content, it will be a blast. Epic Chrono is tough. Everything has to fall into place or you will not finish that quest. We need more content that can wipe a party of experienced players as well as a group of newbs.

    People have been clamoring on about wanting a crafting system in the game the whole time I've been playing. The devs put in a decent system and all we do is complain. The system, as we all know, is going to evolve. Expect the changes that are in effect when the doors open again to change at a later date.

    The hardest part is finding a balance in crafting between the casual players and the more hard-core crowd. Currently the system appears to fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not a hard-core player and neither am I casual. I sit on the top of the bell curve and not on either end.

    It was too easy to make really powerful weapons... way too easy. I was able to craft a weapon that did comparable damage in the Shroud to my min II axe and it didn't take half the time. Something had to be done or the game was going to be even more unbalanced.

    This attempt may not be the best fix, but it is at least an effort. Give it time and Cannith Crafting will become something special. Yes... I am an optimist but the events of the last week or so have proven that the developers are listening to our comments and that's a good sign.

    Nice reference to B. F. Skinner, but I am very familiar with operant conditioning.
    Last edited by blkcat1028; 07-17-2011 at 04:04 AM.

  12. #32
    Community Member TheRealest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    We need more content that can wipe a party of experienced players as well as a group of newbs.
    There we go, something we can agree on
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  13. #33
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealest View Post
    There we go, something we can agree on
    Bwahahahaha!!! I knew it was there... somewhere.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by countfitz View Post
    Agreed (with the OP, not the dude above).

    Nothing you make in crafting is better than shroud or epic, don't give me the math of some twink piece of gear, I'm not carrying around twenty different weapons when two or three greensteel items do the same, and there isn't a single reason to spend the time or plat, they don't even out. ESPECIALLY considering ML. I got to about level 50, by grinding EVERY piece of loot from shroud and epic runs, thinking it would do something. And instead created about three greensteel items and NOTHING OF VALUE from crafting (the couple of cool things I did make ended up at such a high ML I couldn't even use them until I had made the greensteel items mentioned above, which of course were better so now they sit in the bank). Stopped doing it JUST SINCE THE UPDATE (since I couldn't) and realized, WOW, the plat I get from vendor trashing this vendor trash and buying greensteel ingredients paid off tenfold.

    I got mildly excited when they said they'd finally give choices that were of equal value to raid items, THEN, they don't even have the halls up and give us recipies that require items way more valuable in other ways, like xp pots, greensteel items, etc., and ingredients that only specific builds can get soloing.

    Yeah, what a waste of time and plat. It was beta, they did warn us, so for once I can't blame Turbine.
    DISAGREE, my light monk has +5 holy handwraps of Greater Evil Outsider Bane WITH a Large guild augment ... ID LOVE to see the day when Lit2 Handwraps come out.. but until then.. nothing is going to beat these from any quest as boss beaters.

    As for the OP , I see it this way, spend a couple of hrs at crafting plus like 5-10 large scales worth of plat.. and make AMAZING ITEMS such as +4 holyburst silver falchion of Greater lawful bane ... which out dps' a min 2... at what cost? a +1 tome for 30k plat.. and some ess? Also i have a +4 holyburst silver greatsword for my kensai with greatsword proficiency which out dps' my Esos against dr breakers.. so thats now 3 AMAZING item's that could out dps 90% of shroud ****.. at what cost? a couple of +1 tomes and a few minor items? i think your taking it way to serious.. admit in the begining i LOVED crafting and i still like it.. im annoyed that i have well over 200 items all that give lvl 5 good ess waiting to be decon'd but still.. id rather waste some game money and some hrs at crafting then waste day in and day out grinding shroud.. i do nearly next to no questing other then epic's my gear is nearly nothing but epics.. but crafting gives me those few slots were better items can be fit.. makes it so i can make em.. admit a +1 tome maybe 2... and a large scale + demon's blood for a shard of greater eviloutsider bane.. which can REALLY only be used proper in handwraps on a light monk due to demon's need cold iron to break dr and doing it on silver is a waste.. is alot cheaper AND better then anything else you can think of.. its different strokes for different folk's clearly you and your guildies may not plan around crafting now.. but i never planned around it.. i just used it where i could... WISELY not to mention the twink gear it makes while leveling.. large guild augmented goggles with a +2 attack bonus (20 hp) or even +4 more attack in large augment slot.. ml 5!!! come on.. its so past amazing at that point.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    Point taken, but there are more challenging ways to play the game: trying to figure out the content without using the wiki the first time you run it... short manning quests... trying out different builds... doing the shroud and reaver puzzles without a solver...

    I like epics because it requires a greater level of teamwork and coordination. If they ever fix some of the easy buttons in some of the epic content, it will be a blast. Epic Chrono is tough. Everything has to fall into place or you will not finish that quest. We need more content that can wipe a party of experienced players as well as a group of newbs.

    People have been clamoring on about wanting a crafting system in the game the whole time I've been playing. The devs put in a decent system and all we do is complain. The system, as we all know, is going to evolve. Expect the changes that are in effect when the doors open again to change at a later date.

    The hardest part is finding a balance in crafting between the casual players and the more hard-core crowd. Currently the system appears to fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not a hard-core player and neither am I casual. I sit on the top of the bell curve and not on either end.

    It was too easy to make really powerful weapons... way too easy. I was able to craft a weapon that did comparable damage in the Shroud to my min II axe and it didn't take half the time. Something had to be done or the game was going to be even more unbalanced.

    This attempt may not be the best fix, but it is at least an effort. Give it time and Cannith Crafting will become something special. Yes... I am an optimist but the events of the last week or so have proven that the developers are listening to our comments and that's a good sign.

    Nice reference to B. F. Skinner, but I am very familiar with operant conditioning.
    I find I do not agree with you on a number of things. First I use the crafting hall to build items I can not afford to buy or do not find on my own just in order to get to the shroud in the first place. In 2 years of playing I have never been there yet.

    To easy to make powerful weapons? Not in my boat. My crafting skills are in the low 20's I turn in everything I find
    to deconstruction.
    I can not afford to buy essences so I only use what I find. Low 20's is as far as I got before the doors closed.
    And I was making items that had ML 11 perfect for my level 11 toon. If the crafting remained the same I would be getting to level 50 in crafting about when I hit level 20 in maybe another year from now at the rate we are going.

    Unbalanced Is too strong a word as well. I believe Turbine wants more mainstream players to have level 20 toons. Then they can justify going to higher content above level 20 and quests above level 20 and gear with ML above level 20 etc... People throw that unbalanced around to much. Games are unbalanced when people play on opposite sides and one side has an advantage over the other. This is cooperative play. We are all on the same side.
    The only balance then is for Turbine to decide on how fast and how many gamers they want at level 20. Why would that have any impact? Again to justify going to higher levels beyond 20 with the programming of the game. But without enough demand it will not happen. And with this game the demand comes from the mainstream public. That is where the real money is.

    What percentage of the ddo accounts have level 20 toons? Turbine could tell us. But useful clues such as Turbine has a higher priority on new toon classes over higher level content tells me there is more money in the lower ranks. New toons vs higher level content where does Turbine spend their resources? The main stream players are where Turbine spends its resources in this game.
    That is where the money is.

    So I do not see any of this as unbalanced. Just who is your competition if you are unbalanced? And why does that bother you? If anything Turbine is playing the other side and the balance equation then is up to them.

    I am playing the game with 5 of my friends and someday we will get to the shroud and we will struggle with it but in the end we will beat it on our own time and we will have fun doing it now with the help of the crafting hall.
    Why does it bother you what weapons we have when we do it? At the rate we are playing it will be about another year before we get there. And for us the fun is in doing it together for the first time as a group.
    If you ask me their is too much king of the hill attitude for this cooperative game. That is the single biggest con right now for new players that come into this game. They want the D&D cooperative mode of play and instead they come and get king of the hill attitude jammed down their throat. Guys that is a dead end road if you insist to take this game to that end.

    As far as the challenge level of the game goes that is for Turbine to determine by data mining the main stream players. There will always be some that say it is too easy and some that say it is too hard. The data shows where the middle is. When the middle advances far enough Turbine can then expand the cap. New challenges will be there and so will growth but it will only happen if you do not choke it off.

  16. #36
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorhammer View Post
    I find I do not agree with you on a number of things. First I use the crafting hall to build items I can not afford to buy or do not find on my own just in order to get to the shroud in the first place. In 2 years of playing I have never been there yet.

    This is exactly why I like the crafting hall. I use it to craft items that consolidate my slots... striding boots of resistance, Feather falling ring of Disabling, and stuff like that. It's very useful. The increased requirements were for a select few, very powerful recipes. This did not spell the end of the casual gamer/ crafter as the op suggested.

    To easy to make powerful weapons? Not in my boat. My crafting skills are in the low 20's I turn in everything I find
    to deconstruction.
    I can not afford to buy essences so I only use what I find. Low 20's is as far as I got before the doors closed.
    And I was making items that had ML 11 perfect for my level 11 toon. If the crafting remained the same I would be getting to level 50 in crafting about when I hit level 20 in maybe another year from now at the rate we are going.

    I've reached mid 60s in all three school by breaking down all the vendor trash I pick up running quests. I don't buy essences from the ah or other players. It is not HARD to level up in crafting. It is, however, time consuming. How long have you been crafting and would you consider posting your a screenshot of your crafting tab?

    Unbalanced Is too strong a word as well. I believe Turbine wants more mainstream players to have level 20 toons. Then they can justify going to higher content above level 20 and quests above level 20 and gear with ML above level 20 etc... People throw that unbalanced around to much. Games are unbalanced when people play on opposite sides and one side has an advantage over the other. This is cooperative play. We are all on the same side.
    The only balance then is for Turbine to decide on how fast and how many gamers they want at level 20. Why would that have any impact? Again to justify going to higher levels beyond 20 with the programming of the game. But without enough demand it will not happen. And with this game the demand comes from the mainstream public. That is where the real money is.

    Again we're having a lapse in communication. I'm talking about the power of a party against the power of the monsters in the quests. When a group of 12 players can beat down a a high level raid boss in less than 3 minutes and have zero deaths in the group, it's out of balance. A good group can complete HoX in less than 5 minutes, it's out of balance. The characters are too powerful and that power comes from gear and weapons. That's why they had to implement some pretty harsh requirements to slow down the influx of uber weapons. I was able to craft a holy burst axe of glob that out-damages my min II axe and it took a fraction of the time and maybe 1% of the cost. It was way too easy.

    What percentage of the ddo accounts have level 20 toons? Turbine could tell us. But useful clues such as Turbine has a higher priority on new toon classes over higher level content tells me there is more money in the lower ranks. New toons vs higher level content where does Turbine spend their resources? The main stream players are where Turbine spends its resources in this game.
    That is where the money is.

    This is an interesting point but I'm not sure what it has to do with crafting.

    So I do not see any of this as unbalanced. Just who is your competition if you are unbalanced? And why does that bother you? If anything Turbine is playing the other side and the balance equation then is up to them.

    Again, what does this have to do with crafting?

    I am playing the game with 5 of my friends and someday we will get to the shroud and we will struggle with it but in the end we will beat it on our own time and we will have fun doing it now with the help of the crafting hall.
    Why does it bother you what weapons we have when we do it? At the rate we are playing it will be about another year before we get there. And for us the fun is in doing it together for the first time as a group.
    If you ask me their is too much king of the hill attitude for this cooperative game. That is the single biggest con right now for new players that come into this game. They want the D&D cooperative mode of play and instead they come and get king of the hill attitude jammed down their throat. Guys that is a dead end road if you insist to take this game to that end.

    You really need to reread the op and my responses. I don't care what weapons you have when you get to the shroud. I hope you are able to craft what ever you want, but it should not be so easy to craft green steel equivalent weapons at a fraction of the time/ cost. It makes sense to require devil scales and demon's blood in recipes that yield bane weapons for devils and demons. It makes sense to require soul gems for other bane weapons. To craft some of the most powerful weapons in the game should be difficult AND expensive. If not, everyone will have them and the devs will have to break out the nerf bat... again. I realize that a lot of power gamers have spent millions (apparently) of plat and hundreds (supposedly) hours to cap their crafting levels, but I hope that the most powerful recipes never make it to the unbound machine. If the greater banes can be crafted unbound, the cost will be far beyond what a casual player can afford. It will only make the "King of the Hill" situation worse.

    As far as the challenge level of the game goes that is for Turbine to determine by data mining the main stream players. There will always be some that say it is too easy and some that say it is too hard. The data shows where the middle is. When the middle advances far enough Turbine can then expand the cap. New challenges will be there and so will growth but it will only happen if you do not choke it off.

    Again, this is a thread about crafting... not the general state of the game.
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    Hmmm, the soul gems actually strikes me as a good idea. It adds another element to the economy, the only questionable side I see to it is that it's an element which will be mostly dominated by casters who already dominate the end game scroll economy for the most part.

    As for tomes and eberron shards, is it really that big of a deal? Personally I never use a +1 tome, they're outgrown too fast. If I can use a +1 tome today, chances are tomorrow or the day after that I can use a +2. I might give them away or throw them up on AH cheap, now I might turn them. I probably wouldn't turn in many +3's personally with TR'ing an option now, but there's been time a 20th completion list has presented me with no item of interest and a duplicate +3 tome. Small and medium shards might have a better turn ins but the large ones, they're pretty much pointless.
    Astral diamonds aren't my cup of tea either but you can find them on rare occasion in a chest.

    Hard to say if the best choices were made. I think something needed to be done to make crafting the absolute best weapons the system allows a little bit tougher. Yeah, it's certainly grindy getting to the point you can make them. After that tho, it's rather trivial to outfit your account. These turn in options don't really add much of a hurdle either to someone who has managed to grind out ninety to hundred crafting levels already and honestly only a slightly higher hurdle for someone who will take much longer to get to those levels.

  18. #38
    Community Member Ookami007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealest View Post
    Nothing you can make IS better than gs or epics, true. Am i mad that turbine made the change yes, yes i am. Waste of time. Though they did say it was beta i didn't think they'd slap a pricetag onto it. You think that crafting faster/more successfully would be enough, which was only optional and not needed. The thing that's upsetting is that it IS needed now, that you need to shell out to get the essences.

    I could work with soul gems and arrows, but some of it...as you said yourself time would be better spent farming for epics.
    Actually... this isn't true.

    A +5 holy burst silver of greater bane WILL outdps a GS Min2 against devils. +5 chaos burst adamantine of greater construct bane will outdps GS Min2 against constructs.

    Of course, the Min2 is more versatile in that it can overcome DR for a number of things.

    Not only that but the +4 attack bonus you can put on goggles or trinket is unavailable outside an epic item - spectral gloves and vulkoor leathers.

    You can definately make some good stuff. But they've gone and made it an enormous and costly grind to get high enough to do so... then another enormous grind to get favor, etc.

    I think the double grind is the sore point. If we expend the time and effort to get to the level where we should be able to craft decent stuff, don't slap us in the face with with yet another grind.

    We will despise you for it for wasting our time.

    Personally, this has given me more time to work on my other toons, farm epics and shrouds and get more raid gear.

    I won't be spending anymore money - real or pp - just out of principle at this point. I already pay for one VIP and TP points for my girlfriend's Premium account... I'm not paying for anything else.

    I'll make what I can make with what I have, but no +1 tomes, +2 tomes, astral diamonds or other insane choices as ingredients.

    You want to make the crafting system better? Start having things drops from mobs that can be used in crafting.

    Fire resist... have stuff drop from fire elementals or fire mephits.
    constuct bane... have stuff drop from ... *gasp* ... constructs.
    etc.

    While I'm not completely adverse to the soul gems.... I see mages mass creating them and selling them on the AH for tons of plat while those of us who prefer melee toons being penalized for having no INNATE way to create them.

    Also... I'd prefer to see them appear in inventory if this is the case.
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  19. #39
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Its been said before, it should be said again.... its not the indivual enchantments that make an item overpowered or create the possiblity of unbalance in the game. Its the combination of enchantments, and sometimes the combination on the appropriate metal weapon. So they shouldn't have penalized the indivudual shard recipes (with enormous or over-the-top ingredients) but rather should have made the Shard of Potential recipes (over +8 or 10 maybe) contain these rare and costly ingredients and/or added a cost to imbueing any shards on special metal blanks.

    Example: +1 Steel weapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (random loot is ML6)
    This could be useful in an at level Chronoscope, or a little over level Phiarlan Carnival.
    There is no reason why this should require shroud ingredients or an astral diamond to make.

    Example: +5 Holyburst Silver weapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (random loot would be what? ML 18? 20?)
    This would be incredibly useful in any high end quest/raid with devils, evil outsiders (most of them.)
    To push the item's potential this high aught to cost several rare/expensive ingredients and either to craft on a special metal weapon or to disjunct the special metal weapon and make it craftable in the first place aught to cost extra.

    Using this method has the added benefit of not making the process of leveling your crafting skills insanely costly at the high levels where after 10.1 most of the recipes required the purified dragonshard fragment. But still making it harder and more costly to make the weapons that rival raid/epic gear.
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    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  20. #40
    Community Member blkcat1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Its been said before, it should be said again.... its not the indivual enchantments that make an item overpowered or create the possiblity of unbalance in the game. Its the combination of enchantments, and sometimes the combination on the appropriate metal weapon. So they shouldn't have penalized the indivudual shard recipes (with enormous or over-the-top ingredients) but rather should have made the Shard of Potential recipes (over +8 or 10 maybe) contain these rare and costly ingredients and/or added a cost to imbueing any shards on special metal blanks.

    Example: +1 Steel weapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (random loot is ML6)
    This could be useful in an at level Chronoscope, or a little over level Phiarlan Carnival.
    There is no reason why this should require shroud ingredients or an astral diamond to make.

    Example: +5 Holyburst Silver weapon of Greater Evil Outsider Bane (random loot would be what? ML 18? 20?)
    This would be incredibly useful in any high end quest/raid with devils, evil outsiders (most of them.)
    To push the item's potential this high aught to cost several rare/expensive ingredients and either to craft on a special metal weapon or to disjunct the special metal weapon and make it craftable in the first place aught to cost extra.

    Using this method has the added benefit of not making the process of leveling your crafting skills insanely costly at the high levels where after 10.1 most of the recipes required the purified dragonshard fragment. But still making it harder and more costly to make the weapons that rival raid/epic gear.
    Point taken and I must concur. Increasing the cost for the shards of potential would be a better implementation of control. But you have to admit that using a devil scale to craft a greater lawful outsider shard is flavourful

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