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  1. #1
    Community Member nerdychaz's Avatar
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    Default Assassins Guide - Full 45 Page .pdf

    I present to you The Manual of Murder, an Assassin's Guide! 45 Pages of Instant Death!

    http://calamitousguild.info/guides/assassinsguide.pdf

    Use at your own risk!
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  2. #2
    Community Member spyderwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdychaz View Post
    I present to you The Manual of Murder, an Assassin's Guide! 45 Pages of Instant Death!

    http://calamitousguild.info/guides/assassinsguide.pdf

    Use at your own risk!
    nice guide. only thing i see from reading first few pages is the str based dps saying it needs max enhancements to hit the search/disable. if you mean action points then its not accurate . with sufficient gear you can hit any epic trap with no action points spent in it.


    search example

    23 ranks
    4 int mod (18 total = 8 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 exceptional item)
    20 item (spyglass or gogs fro mchrono epic)
    4 gh
    2 luck
    6 shroud
    +3 skill boost ( i had 3 waste points to spend on mine . if you have things youd rather spend these 3 points on do so)

    total search 62.

    disable example
    23 ranks
    4 int mod(same way as search
    20 item (epic utulity vest)
    4 gh
    2 luck
    6 shroud
    +3 skill boost
    3 ventilated bracers
    7 - +5 tools
    total 72 disable

    so as ya can see no enhancements are need as you only need a 52 search if i recall right for any epic trap. and your disable will always be higher than your search because of tools.
    Last edited by spyderwolf; 07-17-2011 at 01:16 AM.

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  3. #3
    Community Member nerdychaz's Avatar
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    In that case, please go beyond page 2 and refer to page 35 for a detailed explanation of how to achieve the necessary trap DC's where this topic is covered in detail.

    Last edited by nerdychaz; 07-17-2011 at 03:32 AM.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Aerendil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdychaz View Post
    In that case, please go beyond page 2 and refer to page 35 for a detailed explanation of how to achieve the necessary trap DC's where this topic is covered in detail.

    That's a good summary of the possible skill levels one can achieve. However, you should add that it's not entirely realistic either.
    1) Int skills: +2 pot, +3 DT, +6 GS. I can see the pot being used regularly, but I don't know of many Rogues who put +int on their DT armour. And while +6 GS is often cited as a viable source, I loathe the idea of using up 5 LDS just to make a piece of armour to swap out to find/disable traps :/ In reality here, I'd wager most Rogues will have a 0 score here, or perhaps +2 due to pots.
    2) Find Trap spell: I've never, ever, ever had this spell cast on me. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to find a Cleric who even has it memorized.
    3) Bard - Inspire Competence: situational. You won't always group with Bards, and when you hit endgame they may simply assume you're already golden for skill levels and don't need a mere +2 boost. Be sure to ask for this if you're playing a Rogue.
    4) Rogue / Racial / Skill boosts: total of +15 here, but more than likely much less than that. Racial is only available to Humans and Half-elves; and the Rogue enhancements / skill boosts cost AP. AP that an Assassin might not have! Very, very possible to have a score of 0 here...
    5) Feat: Skill Mastery: 1/2/3/4?? More likely 1/2. *Every* Rogue is going to take Improved Evasion. And a good chunk will also take Opportunist and Crippling Strike. Meaning this score is most likely a 1, maybe a 2.
    6) You forgot the purchaseable feat Skill Focus: XXX, which would grant a further +3 - although to be honest, if I were going to spend a feat on skill focus, I'd mostly go SF: UMD.

    So in total, the *realistic* scores here for an Int 10 Assassin are moreso in the low 50s.

    Not to mention an Assassin with a starting Int of 10 is probably rare. I'd say 12-16 is the norm, moreso for Assassinate bonuses than for traps.

    That said, it is a pretty decent guide. Just pointing out this chart which was somewhat inaccurate/misleading.

  5. #5
    Community Member JPDefault's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerendil View Post
    2) Find Trap spell: I've never, ever, ever had this spell cast on me. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to find a Cleric who even has it memorized.
    It's a "self-only" spell, that explains why you never had this spell cast on you and why you won't find a Cleric who has it memorized (unless it's a multiclass Rogue/Cleric, but I've never seen one using that spell either).
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  6. #6
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Haven't read it yet - I will.

    Curious if you looked at this page of the Compendium first. Other than not being updated to reflect skill +20 items, it's pretty tasty complete.

    And I'm with Spyder on this one. I took 2 AP into Improved Search because I don't use a Shroud Int Skills Item, and because I wanted an Unbuffed Search of 54, but it is strictly not necessary to waste any AP in them.

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    Community Member nerdychaz's Avatar
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    Seriously, has anyone read it beyond page 2???? Seriously.
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    Community Member whitehawk74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdychaz View Post
    Seriously, has anyone read it beyond page 2???? Seriously.
    yeah I did. Loved the pic on page 12.
    my lev 9 rogue is on the assasin path and as it is my first rogue i need all the info i can get, so thanks
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  9. #9
    Community Member spyderwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdychaz View Post
    Seriously, has anyone read it beyond page 2???? Seriously.
    if page 35 (or whatever it was shows how to get to the dc's needed then why on page 2 ( which is gonna be seen first have conflicting data?(the whole max enhancements lines needed quote)

    obviously you put alot of work into your guide and it shows, but just try alittle more uniformity from page to page in your advice/suggestions.

    good work overall, just needs some polish

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    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I like your "Seven Mantras".

    I've had "Stealth and Diplomacy are my AC; Fearsome and Improved Evasion are my HP!" in my bio for some time.

    I've also said that "with a good diplomacy you can use your buddies' AC and HP" before.

    And I've said similar things about DPS too. DPS doesn't matter when it's dead. I'm a killer, not DPS.

    And I have found that +5 Weps have been more useful on my lower lvl Rogues than +1 Burst of something....cause hitting it is the most important thing.

    People have long argues that you can't always get SA damage. Pfft.. Yes. Yes you can! ok...technically not always, but very very close to always....if you know how.

    I find that even most vets know next to nothing about agro control.


    Might want to add "speed" in there somewhere. Movement speed is very, very important to a Rogue/Assassin. Cause you do often have to wait in the back to not get agro, but need to be able to swiftly pounce on things once they have agroed on someone else.

    I find lack of high % Striders to be so annoying trying to lvl up a lowbie Rogue.
    Guess I could chug down Haste Pots.....expensive, but would greatly help a Rogue without 30% Striders.

    I'll keep reading.

    Edit: also agree with your take on Rogues having an easier time in parties rather than soloing. True on one hand they can sneak through many quests, and have some good solo tricks.... like Bluff/Assassinate. But in a party.... with all of those other people to take agro for me, is where I have the most fun.

    Edit: "where you must convince the magic item that you know how to use it." Lol...
    Might want to mention Wep Finesse and Assasinate when you introduce ability scores.
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 07-17-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  11. #11
    Community Member Nuryam's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Loved the photo and the Mantra's. Gonna read it for sure.

    Kind regards.

  12. #12
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    P17 re TWF. I think you may have the mechanic wrong in the underlined portion here:

    "Two weapon fighting in pen and paper scaled the to-hit of each attack
    based upon your feats, but in DDO this is not the case. In DDO you will always
    suffer a negative two to your base attack bonus and your off hand attacks only
    strike if your main hand has struck. Your off hand attack then rolls a percentage
    die to see if it hits. The higher two weapon fighting feat you have, the higher
    chance you have of landing your off hand attack.
    This is all hidden in
    programming and release notes. Your combat log, equipment panel, and
    character sheet does not actually reflect this mechanic very well."

    I think the way it works is that you have a %chance to make an off hand attack, rather than a % chance to hit. It still makes a standard attack roll (modified for TWF + feats) to see if it actually hits. It just doesn't make a physics check anymore to make sure the target is in collision range.

    I'm also not sure that the %chance to swing actually cares whether your main hand makes a successful attack or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  13. #13
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    P24 Crippling strike:
    "Crippling Strike
    When an enemy is struck, it will suffer two points of strength damage.
    Note that when an enemy reaches a strength of zero, it is no longer considered
    a “helpless” state and will not make enemies susceptible to sneak attacks"

    I have always found it irritating that the -2 Str does not show up in the floaty combat text, and you have to look in your combat log. For the longest time I didn't realise this, and thought the feat didn't work. May be worth mentioning this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  14. #14
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    First few pages:
    "Assassins add seeker +20 to their attacks" - The point of seeker is the damage bonus.
    "Mechanics - Useful abilities - Wrack construct" - No.
    "Thief Acrobat 3 is better than FoM" - Not immune to Hold.
    "Thief acrobat can add their intelligence to attacks with a staff" - No. Adds dex mod to sneak damage with staff.
    "if the enemy fails it's save" - http://www.grammarbook.com/english_rules.asp

    I stopped reading there...
    Not recommended.
    Unfamiliar with DDO's combat mechanics? Check here and here.

  15. #15
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    P29

    "A helpless target is one that is held (with the spell hold person/monster/mass),
    held with earthgrab, stunned, paralyzed, or a few other states caused by spells or
    players. A helpless target takes 50% more damage and is susceptible to sneak
    attacks for that time. Your sneak attack damage will also do 50% more damage
    when they are hit."

    You may want to double check this, I don't think paralyzed counts as the official 'helpless' condition, meaning you don't get the 50% damage increase. Doesn't make any sense to me that it isn't, but there we go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  16. #16
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    P29

    "A helpless target is one that is held (with the spell hold person/monster/mass),
    held with earthgrab, stunned, paralyzed, or a few other states caused by spells or
    players. A helpless target takes 50% more damage and is susceptible to sneak
    attacks for that time. Your sneak attack damage will also do 50% more damage
    when they are hit."

    You may want to double check this, I don't think paralyzed counts as the official 'helpless' condition, meaning you don't get the 50% damage increase. Doesn't make any sense to me that it isn't, but there we go.
    Paralyzed is helpless, the issue is that our "paralyzing" weapons no longer paralyze and instead produce a "daze" like effect which only opens up sneak attacks and no extra damage.
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  17. #17
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    p30

    "Flanking, unlike pen and paper DnD, does not grant a sneak attack. Rather, this
    is a function of the aggro system. Flanking will grant bonuses to your attack,
    however, and is very useful in overcoming the weak BAB of the rogue class.
    Also, being behind your enemy will not make a sneak attack(ala backstab).
    However, you will get bonuses to your attack from that as well."

    hmm. You get a flanking bonus in DDO if you are behind a target. Which means the target is attacking someone else. And if the target is attacking someone else, then you get sneak attack. So the underlined section is wrong - as a rogue, if you are being granted the flanking bonus, by definition you must be getting sneak attacks, because you won't be flanking something that is attacking you directly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  18. #18
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    P31 bluffing and diplomacy:

    "A successful diplomacy check will drop you to the bottom of the threat list against
    multiple targets temporarily and grant a threat reduction that is supposed to
    increase with your diplomacy skill, but the exact ratio is unknown. Diplomacy is
    on a cool down timer of 15 seconds.


    Bluff will grant free sneak attacks for four seconds against a single target and
    temporarily reduce your threat by an unknown amount. Bluff also has a cool
    down timer of 15 seconds."

    Underlined sections should both really read:

    temporarily grants a reduction to your threat generation



    Its the generation that's important - it stops your threat building up as fast on the affected targets while the effect last. But the way you've written it seems to indicate that this effect lowers your overall threat. Which apart from the initial Diplomacy 'threat to zero' effect, it doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  19. #19
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    P38 typo

    Buffs - Improve your party’s endurance by saving the casters manna.

    This is very petty of me, however:

    manna is the stuff from heaven which the Hebrews used to survive in the desert after leaving Egypt.

    Mana
    is mystical energy referred to in eastern mysticism and various MMOs and game systems.

    Spell points are what is used in DDO to denote how much power a caster has left for casting spells with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

  20. #20
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    p39 typo:

    "The Whisper Ring (Dexterity +6 and exceptional intelligence +)."

    + what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge

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