Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 48
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default White Fang - 15 Ranger / 4 Fighter / 1 Rogue

    Goals: Tempest Ranger melee DPS, blue-bar Self-Sufficiency and Rogue Utility

    "In order to face the constant danger of hurt and even of destruction, his predatory and protective faculties were unduly developed. He became quicker of movement than the other dogs, swifter of foot, craftier, deadlier, more lithe, more lean with ironlike muscle and sinew, more enduring, more cruel, more ferocious, and more intelligent. He had to become all these things, else he would not have held his own nor survived the hostile environment in which he found himself." - Jack London, White Fang.

    You scan the list of groups looking for more. Sometimes they say "byoh," "no lifeguard on duty," or just "no gimp." Other times they say "need rogue." All of them need DPS from their melee.

    Sometimes there's nothing at all that interests you, and you don't feel like putting up your own. To solo, on top of DPS, you'll need self-healing and could use some way to mitigate damage.

    The concept: Melee DPS sacrificing as little as possible to obtain good self-healing, mitigation through evasion (possibly with an AC relevant to soloing normal content), with the added utility of UMD and trapskills. The build template is newbie-friendly (28 point accounts with only F2P races/classes may apply) with good options for those with more resources.

    (I'm going to borrow Tihocan's format for presenting a build template because it's good.)

    Alignment: Recommend going True Neutral, Chaotic or Lawful Neutral also doable.
    Neutral lets you use all items without a negative level, UMD lets you use many items you otherwise could not (bypassing alignment restrictions). You also don't take extra unholy damage.

    Stats and Race (28/32 pt, *requires a tome):

    ........Drow.....Dwarf......Elf....Halfling...Human....Half-Elf...Half-Orc...Warforged.
    .Str.....18......17/18......16.......14.......17/18.....15/17.....18/20.......16/18....
    .Dex.....14......13/14.....14/17.....17.......13/14.....13/14.....14/12*......13/14....
    .Con.....12........16.......14.......14/16.....15.......14.........14.........16.......
    .Int.....12........12.......12.......12........10. ......12.........12.........12.......
    .Wis.....8.........8........8........8.........8.. .....13/11*.....8..........9/6*......
    .Cha.....10........6........8........8.........8.. .....8..........6...........6........


    Ability increase every 4 levels: All in Strength.

    Multiclass progression: Level 1 Rogue, Level 2 and 3 Fighter, Level 4 to 17 Ranger, Level 18 to 19 Fighter, Level 20 Ranger.

    Skills. In the rogue level, get 4 in: Balance, Disable Device, Haggle, Jump, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble, UMD. (Ranks in Jump, Tumble, and Haggle mostly because we can't afford to max any of the skills not on this list, and we won't be increasing several of them past 4.)

    In the Fighter levels: Max Disable Device and then put the rest in Use Magic Device.
    In the Ranger levels: Maximize, in this order: Disable Device, Search, Use Magic Device, Spot, Open Lock. (You'll get max Spot and more ranks of Open Lock with a +2 tome. Without it, you'll need to sacrifice 1 UMD, 1 DD, 2 Search, or move a fighter level earlier. Those who prefer to skimp on Spot can afford more Balance or Open Lock.)

    Favored Enemies: I suggest Undead, Evil Outsider, Construct, and a fourth of your choosing (Giant or Elemental perhaps). With four to choose from, there's definitely room for personal preference.

    Feats (by level) - Human: Dodge (1), Toughness (1), Weapon Focus: Slash (2), Mobility (3), Power Attack (3), Spring Attack (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Empower Healing (12), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh (15), Free Choice* (18), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (19)
    * Mental Toughness, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Stunning Blow, or a past-life feat suggest themselves.

    Feats (by level) - Dwarf, Drow, or Elf: Dodge (1), Mobility (2), Toughness (3), Power Attack (3), Spring Attack (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Maximize (12), Free Choice* (15), Weapon Focus: Slashing (18), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (19)
    * Khopesh proficiency (better damage, more AP available) or your choice. Dwarf and stunning blow might be interesting (+2 fighter enhancements and +3 racial enhancements for a not-completely-bad DC). On a drow or elf with rapiers, be sure to take the Pierce versions of Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization.

    Feats (by level) - Half-Elf, Half-Orc, Halfling, or Warforged: Dodge (1), Mobility (2), Toughness (3), Power Attack (3), Spring Attack (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Empower Healing or Maximize* (12), Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh (15), Weapon Focus: Slashing (18), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (19)
    * You've got this choice on every build, really: bigger heals or more healing between shrines. Races without racial healing amplification just need Maximize even more.

    Half-Elf Dilletante (free Half-Elf feat): Take monk. If starting with 11 Wisdom, take anything else and talk to Fred after eating a +2 Wisdom tome at level 7. Yes, it works. [This also works with any other feat too, which is how the Half-Orc with a 12 starting Dex takes Dodge and Mobility nominally "at level 3." You must lie to the character generator a little to make it work there, but it's fully functional in-game. This is cheaper the earlier you do it; Fred's price goes up after every four levels.]

    Enhancements: These will depend a bit on on race; see the three build examples below for ideas. The Tempest II prestige enhancement allows a lot of freedom with action points. At a minimum:

    Rogue Sneak Attack Training I [1]
    Fighter Haste Boost II [3]
    Fighter Strength I [2]
    Fighter Toughness II [3]
    Racial Toughness II [3]
    Ranger Dex II [6]
    Ranger Favored Damage IV [10]
    Ranger Tempest I [4]
    Ranger Tempest II [2]
    Ranger Devotion IV [10]
    Human Versatility III / Ranger Skill Bost III [6]
    Ranger Sprint Boost I [1]

    That's only 51 points, leaving 29 left for you to assign.

    To make the most of the healing, you'll need Superior Ardor III+ clickies and a good spell point item to wear at the start of quests and when shrining (you'll also need a +6 Wisdom item to cast level 4 spells). Healing amp gear helps too. The "torc" item, restoring sp when hit, would make the half-elf and human versions really shine. To make the most of the AC when going solo (Half-Elf monk dilly version has the highest and the highest healing amp), you'll need to collect a bit of gear that may take a while, but you'll still have enough to make the leveling experience less painful without all that gear (you have no evasion until level 12, wear full plate until then). To make the most of the DPS, all the standard suggestions also apply, which could make the itemization a bit tight. Simple suggestion: swap out the AC gear when it isn't as useful and when you need max DPS (if someone else is holding the aggro, it's a good idea).

    A good two-hander like Carnifex (end reward of Delaras' Tomb) will be the best DPS until you get Improved TWF at level 9.

    I hope this is useful and welcome any comments.
    Last edited by Luckness; 08-07-2011 at 10:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    I had way too much to type so I split it into a separate post with four longer notes on this kind of build, if it's "TL;DR" material then pretend it isn't here. Just scroll down to find the character generator print-outs for a 28 point human version, a 32 point H-Elf version, and a 32-point H-Orc version.


    Note 1: The Level Split

    The level split: This level split competes with the alternatives of going Tempest III at 18 or a more minimal Tempest II at 12 to 13. Why go past level 12? At level 13 you get an enhancement for +1 Favored Enemy damage, at level 14 you get access to Freedom of Movement and Cure Serious Wounds, and at level 15 you get an additional Favored Enemy (meaning also +2 damage) and the second spell slot to fit both level four spells. This build is meant to maximize the use of Cure Serious Wounds by going to level 15 and picking up free feats from another class.

    Tempest III in its current form grants 5% doublestrike on mainhand, +1 to-hit in melee, and +1 shield bonus to AC (when not given the shield spell). You also get access to the ToD ring bonus for Tempest III which is another +3 to-hit. Many have noticed that this is a bit underwhelming, especially considering the need to take another feat to qualify (usually Oversized TWF for another +2 to-hit in melee). The only damage increase in here, if you're hitting on a 2 without all this, is the 5% double-strike on main-hand.

    Taking four levels of Fighter gives you three class feats. Two will be spent on Weapon Focus and on Weapon Specialization, which are +1 to-hit and +2 to damage. It will also give the +1 to Strength enhancement, Fighter Toughness II, and the 20% haste boost. The greatest benefit here is the net gain of two feats (get 3 from Fighter, spend 2 on Fighter, save 1 from Ranger). The DPS will be roughly the same (less than 1% difference, depending on how much damage your mainhand already swings) outside of the Haste Boost duration and better during it.

    Many Tempest III rangers already multiclass the last two levels, so this is not a further comparison, but the one level of rogue will give 1d6+3 sneak attack damage (often available "when it counts," when someone is tanking the big bad) as well as the UMD, trapskills, and reflex save.

    When fighting Favored Enemies, this level split is not going to be far behind on damage to Tempest II / Kensai I (+2 seeker and +1 damage versus +2 FE damage), apart from the benefit of getting 25% haste boost and Fighter Strength II with the 7th level of Fighter. It saves some action points at the same time (6 points mostly wasted on Fighter Attack Boost II and Critical Accuracy II). Going Kensai would also help combat DC's or going deeper into Rogue would give good sneak attack damage (and going "Exploiter" with a monk level will give the most AC available to a ranger), but those are different builds made for different purposes. If those are your goals, you should try them, but if this build fits your ideals, think about it.

    There is no direct comparison with builds that have only 12 or 13 levels of ranger. Those builds will, potentially, do a bit more DPS. This build does a bit less and gets respectable self-healing along with a useful buff, solo or not (Freedom of Movement... I mean, look at your will save). There is also the increased flexibility of 4 Favored Enemies, which some may really appreciate.


    Note 2: The Race Selection

    Your choice of race will have a lot to say in how well this build does and will even determine, to an extent, your playstyle. Here are my notes on each race.

    Drow: I could see a player choosing Drow if they had not yet unlocked 32 point builds or if they just liked the looks. Because of the racial enhancements to rapiers and the loss of the human feat, going rapiers would make sense. Honestly, though, a 28 point Human would outperform a Drow in most respects. The loss of up to 50 hp at max level hurts the most. The loss of racial healing amp really hurts too.

    Dwarf: An okay option, especially with a 32 point build allowing you to max out Strength. This one gets a bit more hp than humans at max level. They make up for the feat loss by swinging dwarven axes. The loss of racial healing amp still hurts. (This can be overcome by taking Maximize instead of Empower Healing, trading smaller heals for fewer, better heals. It's actually a good idea on any race without racial healing amp.) I find this most interesting as a Stunning Blow build, since it can save a feat on Dwarven Axes that the WF or Half-Orc cannot spare without losing the metamagic and the point of the build (also with racial enhancement +3 or with naturally higher strength for +2 DC). To make this really shine you'd probably want to add a Fighter past life (passive)... or three. Or, just like humans, dwarves could take Mental Toughness for more SP.

    Elf: The race is good-looking and tempts with the longbow enhancements, for those who like the Legolas archetype. Just for those players, I dipped a bit into Strength in order to give higher Dexterity (to hit better with ranged weapons) and still start with 14 CON. I feel this is giving up too much, however, especially with no healing amp, and you'd be better served with a build actually focused on what you want to do (possibly 6 Ranger / 12 Fighter / 2 Monk - called "The Helves Angel" in half-elf form). Similar to the last two options, you could use rapiers or scimitars instead of khopeshes to save the feat.

    Halfling: The race is best-known for the Cunning and Guile enhancements, along with higher AC and saves potential than any other race. The higher Dex on this option is to complement the latter, allowing more respectable evasion and AC. If your interests in halfling are elsewhere, such as Cunning and Guile or Hero's Companion, you could reduce it to 14 Con / 16 Dexterity on a 32-point build and maximize your strength to 16. You should spend a feat to get Khopesh proficiency. This could net you higher DPS while sneak-attacking than Half-Orc. Only someone who just plain liked the race would do it, though.

    Human: Unless you feel the need for the DPS from Half-Orc, this is a solid choice. You get an extra feat. You save 2 Intellect points while still getting the same skills. You get to bump your Constitution up, take Racial Toughness III, and even out another stat, preferrably Strength. You get Human Versatility instead of Ranger Skill Boost. Importantly, you get access to 30% racial healing amp, without which the level split is less justified. (Average 32 CSW, 75% ardor clicky, 40% ranger devotion, 50% Empower Healing is 118 healing, on a human with 30% racial healing amp it's 153 healing. To get the same effect with other races you'd need Maximize, yielding 157 healing for 37 sp instead of 22 sp. You could also go human and Maximize to greater effect.)

    Half-Elf: This race is the choice for those who (A) are just fans of the race, (B) want the potential for higher AC than a human, or (C) want the potential for the highest healing amp. The chosen dilletante is Monk. The 28-point build assumes the player won't have the resources (or the inclination to burn them) and puts the full 13 points into Wisdom at creation. The 32-point build assumes that you'll want to use a +2 Wisdom tome. (Yes, Fred will change your dilletante this way.) With just the +2 Wisdom tome, +1 enhancement, and +6 item you'll be maxing out the armor bonus from the dilettante, should you choose to do so. The best thing here is that 1.2 * 1.2 = 1.44 healing amp between monk and racial improved recovery. Good for about 20 more HP per heal over human, same enhancement point spend. You'll also get a bit more spell points from the wisdom that you justified taking. You'll have the additonal option to put two racial enhancements into Dexterity, if going for higher AC and reflex save, or using the human racial enhancement for Dexterity if that evens it out.

    Half-Orc: This version of the build goes for the maximum DPS possible from a Ranger 15 / 4 Fighter / 1 Rogue split. You'll get 3 to 4 more Strength all the time over the Half-Elf or Human versions, along with a racial enhancement line for Power Attack for another +3 damage. You'll also get more charges on your 20% haste boost. For those who balk at the DPS potential of the other races, this is the only option, as it offers 6 more damage on mainhand and 5 more damage on offhand (with Power Attack on, at a cost of only -1 to-hit considering Strength differences) over the alternatives. You can make up for the loss of racial healing amp either by using gear with it, selecting Maximize as the metamagic feat, or both. To make up for the extra ability spend required in Int, you'll need at least a +1 Dexterity tome. Well worth it to get Half-Orc DPS.

    Warforged: This doesn't really make sense to me, as it undermines a key feature of the build, getting enough healing amp to make casting CSW worthwhile. If you did it, however, you could possibly compensate with gear to improve WF healing amp from cure spells, full ranks in Healer's Friend, and use of Maximize. The 32-point version assumes a +2 wisdom tome (to get at least 14 wisdom needed to cast ranger spells). The benefit would be WF immunities with DPS approaching the Half-Orc version when Power Attack is on.


    Note 3: How much healing amp is enough?

    It's your choice really. Whether you need 100 hp a heal or 150 hp a heal or 200 hp a heal is something you can determine based on what you tend to do with your character. You can plan your race choice, metamagic feat, and gear layout in order to reach your goal. As a rule of thumb...

    Average CSW heal, no amp = 3d6 + 6 + 15 = 31.5

    75% superior ardor III clicky (needed) + 40% ranger devotion (needed) + 50% Empower Healing = about 120 healing
    Add in Maximize or Human Healing Amp = About 150-160 healing
    Go Half-Elf instead = About 170 healing
    Go human and Maximize = About 200 healing
    Go Half-Elf and Maximize = About 225 healing
    Add 20% healing amp gear to these numbers, respectively: they go up to 144 other race empower healing, or 186 human empower healing / other race maximize, or 204 Half-Elf / Empower Healing, or 240 Human / Maximize, or 270 Half-Elf / Maximize.

    Note that the 3d6 factor can cause wide variation. For example, that last number of 270 can really vary from as low as 203 hp and up to 330 hp.
    Got Paladin Past Lives? You do the math.

    Especially when you get the healing amp gear and if you are comfortable with the fewer heals of Maximize, choosing the higher-DPS option of Half-Orc can make a lot of sense. Human and Half-Elf basically trade some offense for defense (which works both solo and in groups with divine casters healing you). Dwarf get to save the feat by going Dwarven Axes and get more health than any other option along with other racial benefits. The decision will rest with player preference... not everyone wants tusks!

    The other race choices for this build - Drow, Elf, Halfling, Warforged - are considerably sub-optimal but can, of course, still work.

    A point to mention, and a real sticking point for those who probably wouldn't use this build... those who really prefer exclusively to use UMD scrolls will probably not be satisfied with this build. Those who see the benefits of using the blue bar, will. This is again a point of player preference. Blue bar healing is much more newbie-friendly and leveling-friendly, as "no fail UMD heal scroll" healing is not really possible until at or near level 20 and can still even then feel a little more clunky. Proper use of scrolls or wands when not in the midst of combat, in order to save spell points (if desired), should eventually be common sense and second nature.


    Note 4: Can the AC ever matter? (AKA, the Half-Elf Monk Dilettante Dilemma)

    If you go Half-Elf with Monk dilly, you're going to wonder whether getting that 5 wisdom AC bonus is worth the enhancement points and slot requirements (AC bracer and armor slots at a minimum) instead of just taking the healing amplification. And is that even worth it instead of going human? Good questions... and, fortunately, nothing an enhancement respec won't fix. (Unless you decide it's better just to go human!)

    Well, here is some of the AC potential of the half-elf version. Assumes you have an Icy Raiments, +2 Exceptional Dexterity item, +4 Insight GS weapon, and some auction-house gear. (How hard the gear is to get depends on your luck, I pulled Icy Raiments the first time I stepped into Subterrane...)

    10 Base
    8 Armored Bracer (Race-Restricted)
    4 Icy Raiments Dodge Bonus
    1 Alchemical Dodge
    5 Protection
    5 Barkskin (self-buffed)
    3 Tempest II (Shield bonus)
    1 Dodge feat
    4 Insight bonus (Greensteel)
    9 Dexterity bonus
    5 Monk Dilly Wisdom bonus [get 1 Wisdom from one of ship buff, +3 tome, +1 exceptional Wisdom, or 2 action points]
    -----
    55
    Add in a haste boost (clicky or potion) and ship buffs running.
    1 Haste dodge
    1 Dexterity ship buff
    3 Deneith, Kundarak, and Three Dragons
    ----
    60

    That goes up to 61 for 1 action point with Favored defense, or if you just bother to use a shield scroll or clicky. You can boost that to 65 temporarily with the use of Human Versatility. An AC of 60-ish can't hurt much if you're going to solo, and there's a little more available if you're giving up other slots and acquiring yet more gear, such as ring and cloak (Mabar Cloak or Chattering Ring, yet more if you start throwing in +3 tomes, Elven Dexterity II, and/or Litany of the Dead).

    Want even more? You could get 5 more from Combat Expertise. If for what you do 5 more AC (as much as 70 to 75 AC depending on gear and temporary boosts) brings you from "hit 30% of the time" to "hit 5% of the time," this could really be the way to go. The best way to do this would be to give up the metamagic for Combat Expertise. This stance makes your spells cost double already (24 SP heals without metamagic) making it prohibitive to run both at the same time and the metamagic then becomes redundant for not being there when you need it most. However, I don't really recommend this. When you solo, you are the DPS, if things die faster you get hit less and you save time too. I'd suggest just running with Power Attack on and enjoying the healing power and 5 more AC of half-elf with monk dilly.

    For comparison, the human version will get 5 less Wisdom bonus but the same Dexterity, making for an AC of 55-ish without Combat Expertise, temporary boost, or additional gear. (On the other hand, fitting the CE feat is easier on a human, if you like to use it sometimes and the metamagic other times.) The Half-Orc version, reaching 14 Dex with a +2 tome, and likely to buy only Ranger Dexterity 2, as he can't even it out with racial enhancements, will be a couple AC shy of the CE-less human and will have no temporary AC boost... assuming he's still acquiring the AC gear instead of using whatever robes or light armor he prefers for faster killing.

    If you need more AC than this, you might look at an Exploiter (18 Ranger / 1 Monk / 1 Rogue) for the full Wisdom bonus to AC, or a pure monk, or a sword-and-board Fighter or Paladin... but for giving up no class levels and dual-wielding and still reaching hey-that's-sometimes-neat AC, cheaply and with not-that-hard-to-obtain gear, the Half-Elf variant is just not bad, mostly because the increased healing amp is already quite good. (You can't get monk healing amp without splashing 3 levels, which is a bit overdoing it. Healing Amp is good in more sitautions than moderately-okay AC, especially in those tough group encounters where your "AC doesn't matter," suggesting H-Elf monk dilly might be the new exploit. With the nerf to Tempest III and the sky-high to-be-useful AC requirements of some places, the 18/1/1 Exploiter split is still solid but could use some changing-up for those not necessarily needing its full AC potential.)

    Compare with the original Exploiter build post showing 65 AC self-buffed, with Combat Expertise and a Chattering Ring. The main difference? Ship buffs can pick up some slack, if you want to slack a bit and not take the monk level, if you don't plan to go into epics tanking.

    And if you do, that is where you really ought to plan for what's required, "full ******" result or otherwise! A more general-purpose build suits new players and perhaps most players.
    Last edited by Luckness; 08-07-2011 at 10:26 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    In this post I will present three character builder versions of this template. Many prefer to read this, myself included. The first one is a Human 28-point build and the other two are 32-point Half-Orc and Half-Elf versions that use +2 tomes at level 7 for comparison to other posted builds.

    First the human 28-pointer.

    I take Mental Toughness at 12 and Empower Healing at 18 for easy-peasy SP management. One tip that will save the new player a lot of grief: at the end of the Misery's Peak chain, pick the "ARCHIVIST'S NECKLACE" as your reward. You cannot repeat this quest, essentially robbing you of 50-60 SP between shrines from now to kingdom come (you could TR or reroll to get it but "meh!"). [edit: This is also apparently selectable as a reward sometimes from the Carnival quest series in House P.] You will find a multitude of options to outgear the Anger's Wrath set... or save up a little TP for Devil's Assault, get the Gem of Many Facets trinket (lots of normal loot runs taking all comers in the LFM), and at level 5 you can get +2 for attack, +1 for attack, and +2 sneak attack damage at the cost of your trinket, boot (with Expeditious Retreat clicky), and Gloves. Pretty snazzy for the level, you can wear that and leave Power Attack on almost all the time. (Of course, at level 5 that competes with Delara's Voice of the Master 5% exp trinket... welcome to the world of situational gear swaps.)

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    White Fang the 28 point Human
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
    (4 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 15 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 318
    Spell Points: 310 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             17                    24
    Dexterity            13                    16
    Constitution         15                    16
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               5                     7
    Bluff                -1                    -1
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy            -1                    -1
    Disable Device        4                    22
    Haggle                3                     3
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     3
    Intimidate           -1                    -1
    Jump                  7                    11
    Listen               -1                    -1
    Move Silently         1                     3
    Open Lock             5                    11
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     0
    Search                4                    23
    Spot                  3                    19
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                5                     7
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Mobility
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Next the H-Elf version with Monk dilly.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    White Fang the 32 point H-Elf
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
    (4 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 15 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 308
    Spell Points: 229 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             17                    26
    Dexterity            14                    20
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom               11                    13
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                     9
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device        5                    25
    Haggle                3                     4
    Heal                  0                     1
    Hide                  2                     5
    Intimidate           -1                     0
    Jump                  7                    12
    Listen                0                     1
    Move Silently         2                     5
    Open Lock             6                    18
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                    25
    Spot                  4                    22
    Swim                  3                     8
    Tumble                6                     9
    Use Magic Device      3                    23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Monk Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Last but not least, a H-Orc version featuring higher DPS and Maximize, taking Energy of the Wild III for more SP to compensate (competes with other not-so-hot enhancements but suits the build).

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    White Fang the 32 point H-Orc
    Level 20 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
    (4 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 15 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 308
    Spell Points: 245 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             20                    30
    Dexterity            12                    16
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma              6                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               5                     7
    Bluff                -2                    -1
    Concentration         2                     3
    Diplomacy            -2                    -1
    Disable Device        5                    25
    Haggle                2                     3
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  1                     3
    Intimidate           -2                    -1
    Jump                  9                    14
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently         1                     3
    Open Lock             5                    16
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                5                    25
    Spot                  3                    21
    Swim                  5                    10
    Tumble                5                     7
    Use Magic Device      2                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
    
    
    Level 9 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 13 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+3)
    Skill: Spot (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
    Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
    Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild III
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    That's it!
    Last edited by Luckness; 08-07-2011 at 10:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Community Member Morrodenya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Just a question really why not going for a more traditional spread? like 12 ranger/ 6 fighter/ 2 rogue. Ok you would lose a favored enemy but you still have 3 and you gain fighter kensai I prestige class.

  5. #5
    Community Member IBCROOTBEER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    241

    Default

    Agreed with going 6 fight for kensai I. the extra 3 ranger levels don't really gain you much after all
    Sarlona - The Silent Accord
    Choyce (10th life, Rogue/Ranger splash) - Zedekia (20 Favored Soul, 2nd life)
    Vallheru (20 Monk, 2nd life) - Julle (20 Spellsinger Bard)
    Nimblum (20 Rogue) - Xzanthus (20 Wizard)

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    205

    Default

    good layout of it all really impressive..

    if i think of white fang i think of kakashis father

  7. #7
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,683

    Default

    if you really like csw/FoM, going up to 18 rgr will be more dps than the 4 ftr gives you :O, sure its only 5.55% increase, but that should still be more than a +2.
    Last edited by stille_nacht; 07-15-2011 at 04:58 PM.
    adversity is something we face every day - for a true test, give someone power

    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
    Click the arrow for Intro to Multiclassing
    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
    Frugal Pack Buying Guide

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    The main reason that this build goes to 15 Ranger: Level 4 spells (Cure Serious Wounds and Freedom of Movement). The secondary reason that this build goes to 15 Ranger is to get the fourth favored enemy (more flexibility means you're more likely to be fighting a FE at any given time and you'll get +2 to damage when you do). The secondary motivation makes the primary motivation cost us a lot less DPS. You also get a bit more SP this way.

    Taking 2 more levels of Fighter is not as much DPS as you'd expect from a prestige enhancement, as much of the fighter DPS along the way comes from the first four levels, the Fighter Strength I enhancement, the Haste Boost II enhancement, and especially Weapon Specialization (+2 to damage). When you get to 6th level, you get +1 to damage and +2 seeker (i.e., +2 to confirm critical rolls and +2 to damage before critical multipliers are applied). This is pretty much a dead heat when you are fighting Favored Enemies. If you proceed to the 7th level of Fighter you get real benefit in terms of Fighter Strength II, Haste Boost III, and the third Toughness. This build foregoes that, as nice as it is, in order to get the level 4 Ranger spells. The loss of DPS is not much, really. You also get welcome skill points.

    Taking a 2nd level of Rogue makes sense on other builds, but with 9 levels of Ranger, it's overkill. Ranger get Evasion at level 9, so if you're taking more than 1 level of Rogue, you ought to take more than 2 also.

    Going all the way to 18 Ranger does give a DPS benefit versus taking 4 levels of Fighter, but again, it's marginal and comes at steep cost. You're now comparing 5% doublestrike on mainhand to getting +2 damage all the time and +1 Strength enhancement and Haste Boost II. What are the costs? You're giving up as many as two feats, which could only be recouped if you splashed 2 Fighter or 2 Monk, thus giving up the Rogue splash. I can count two because the Fighter levels give you an extra one and the Tempest III prestige costs one. You're also giving up some action points and giving up 16 HP from fighter levels and Toughness II. Whereas the damage difference between this and a Tempest III build is not large, what is larger are the to-hit bonuses from Tempest III (+4 to-hit if you get the ToD ring), but it's not likely to make much difference when geared and buffed. Also, if you did go Tempest III and two levels of Fighter, you'd benefit from full BAB 20, but you'd also get a very different build, as you've cut out rogue.

    Before getting the inspiration for this build, I found this post that was comparing Tempest II / Kensai I to taking Tempest III. (Many people think in terms of collecting prestige enhancements when multiclassing, as they are usually quite powerful. Tempest III is an example of one that is less-so, and Kensai I is an example of one that front-loads a lot of its power two levels before you actually take the prestige.)

    Tempest 3 vs Tempest 2 + Kensai 1 Estimate Calcs

    According to this fellow, taking the Tempest III should be a 3.5% DPS increase and taking the Kensai I should be a 4.35% increase. You get that increase from the +2 to damage at level 4 and the +1 to damage and +2 to seeker at level 6, as well as the Strength I at level 3. Supposing you stop at level 4, I'd suppose at least half-efficiency for damage, since you still get +2 to damage here. That's 3.5% DPS for Tempest III versus 2.2% DPS for splashing Ranger 15 and Fighter IV. And if you're fighting a Favored Enemy, taking the 15 levels of Ranger gives the +1 enhancement at level 13 and the +2 damage at level 15, giving you 2 to 3 damage on each weapon, easily pulling ahead.

    What's the upshot?

    Forget about 1-2% DPS for a moment from classes and enhancements. That's a bit negligible when you look at the gain of two level four spells and one to two more feats to use as you see fit (only one more compared to builds using a Fighter 1 or Monk 1 splash, actually none more if going 18 Ranger / Fighter 2). What can we do with this? We can make sure we get the rogue level at no real sacrifice in our build's level split (utility and very nice situational DPS). We can get those two very nice spells.

    And then the important part: we can make them really count by using the available feat intelligently. One way is going Half Elf or Human and using the racial healing amp along with a healing metamagic in order to get very substantial self-healing for a ranger (much in the same way bard builds will recommend Maximize or Empower Healing... Ranger builds are usually just too feat-starved). Another way is going Half-Orc or Dwarf and utilizing the extra strength or racial enhancements, along with the 2 extra DC from the fighter levels, in order to have a spitting chance of landing a Stunning Blow.

    Why do this? Well, if you want pure max DPS, you might not roll a ranger anyway. If you're going far enough into Ranger to get 11 or 12 levels, maybe you should consider the advantages of going "full monty." If you do so, you should understand the viability of 12, 15, and 18 level splits (even 13)... they are all there, even if not apparent because of the typical "get the prestige enhancement" logic in multiclassing.

    Anyhow, thanks for the feedback. Means a lot.

  9. #9
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    +1 great write-up that must have taken a lot of work. Good information and lots of numbers!

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    I can state the reason for the build's level split a bit more simply than I have.

    Goals: Tempest Ranger, casting CSW, with healing metamagic feat (much like a warchanter often does). Rogue splash.

    Problem: Going less than 14 levels Ranger gives you no CSW, going 18 levels Ranger costs you a feat for the prestige enhancement.

    Solution 1: You could make it a human, use the free feat to get your metamagic. This works well, unless you want to try a different race, Half-Elf or Half-Orc or maybe Dwarf). Also, there would then be no room for a past-life feat (or something else you like - maybe Mental Toughness), even on Human. Still, it would work to go Human 18/1/1 for this purpose. (Back to an Exploiter or 1 Fighter splash. Basically the original with a healing meta-magic instead of combat expertise.)

    Problem: You could lose some levels of Ranger, going below 18, and try to find some way to give you most of the DPS back, while making sure you not only freed up the feat from Ranger 18 but also gained a feat from your splash. But what could do that?

    Solution 2: Make it Ranger 15, giving you the fourth favored enemy and +2 damage, gaining some of the benefit gained on the way to Ranger 18. Make it Fighter 4, giving you +2 damage and +1 Strength and Haste Boost II, gaining most but not all of the DPS derived from Tempest III. Certainly passing it in a short burst (Haste Boost II).

    Now you have one feat to play with on a non-human, two feats to play with on a human, and possibly two feats to play with on Dwarf or Elf or Drow if giving up khopeshes. Max DPS? Nope. Neat? You betcha.

    Buy the healing metamagic, and if you can afford another feat from all this, you have your pick of the litter. Lose a little bitty sustained DPS but heal twice as good anytime you want? Could be handy.

  11. #11
    Community Member Morrodenya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    53

    Default

    Luckness thanks for your response and after reading what you said it make a lot more sense to me now so thanks for that.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    I'm a bit unhappy with the fuzziness of relying on my interpretation of someone else's post for determining the DPS comparison between the 4 Fighter / 1 Rogue / 15 Ranger and the 1 Fighter or Monk / 1 Rogue / 18 Ranger. When I have some time later I'd like to get a better hold on the difference here, allowing me to figure out the required damage bonus on main hand required for the Tempest III prestige to pull ahead... and by how far it pulls ahead (if it does) for sustained DPS with "easily obtainable gear" or "uber max DPS gear."

    Why? Not so much because I lose sleep over the "1-2% of DPS" loss here to pick up an available feat slot for utility. More because there is the small chance that this multiclass may, in certain situations, be "Max DPS" for a character with at least 15 levels ranger. I think a lot more people are interested in the lure of "Max DPS" ... interest in flavor or utility is more of a personal preference... you could go back and forth all day on which is "better"... but obtaining the same or even better DPS (in enough situations that are realistic) and gaining a feat can't really be argued with, because then the Tempest III enhancement line with rogue level would be the "flavor build." If it were actually true.

    By the way, going anything other than Half-Orc for this is a substantial DPS loss... anyone going Half-Orc with this can be pretty happy about his DPS against the popular Human race Exploiter build, even before getting all the gear they will eventually get if they stick to it. And you'll have exactly as many feats free to play with as the Human Exploiter does... one.

    I've mentioned player preference enough times, and here's another one: playing a less-common multiclass and shining, or playing a multiclass where veteran characters can spot your reference build post a mile away (I'm looking at you, Exploiter). Personally I'm itching to roll up the 28 point build Human on some random server just to play with this build... and report back how I feel with it "in the field" as a newbie build. When I have more play time.

  13. #13
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    In helf version you state monk dilly but start with an eleven Wis. Think you need 13 wis for monk dilly.

    I have been considering something like this but opted for Maximize over Emp heal. Do you think this would be to much of a mana drain?
    Last edited by Emizand; 07-16-2011 at 06:14 AM.

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    124

    Default

    This is very timely info for me. Good work sir. +1.

    Using a modified version of Tihocan's tempest build at the moment and was just thinking about stopping at Ranger 15 for precisely the reasons mentioned above - CSW, FoM and 4th FE, and the underwhelmingness of Tempest III.

    My concerns about taking more fighter levels was basically in the loss of skill points. How high do you think rogue skills like DD, OL, Search, Spot need to get to be effective at non-epic endgame? I've heard figures of 50+ being quoted before.


  15. #15
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    In helf version you state monk dilly but start with an eleven Wis. Think you need 13 wis for monk dilly.
    You'll have to take something else at level 1... doesn't matter what, maybe Barb dilly. Then, when you get to level 7, you have to eat a +2 wisdom tome. This will give you a 13 base+tome wisdom. If you then go talk to Fred in House Jorasco, he will exchange your dilly feat and allow you to take the monk one. This is confirmed to work.

    The reason we do this is that starting with a 13 wisdom at level 1 would put us well over 20 wisdom with tomes and a +6 wisdom item and other stuff, which goes beyond any benefit the character can really accrue from wisdom (the monk dilly armor bonus stops at 5). Thus the 32-point version assumes the player will invest in the +2 tome.

    I have been considering something like this but opted for Maximize over Emp heal. Do you think this would be to much of a mana drain?
    It simply translates into less blue-bar healing between shrines. If you make up for the efficiency with scrolls/wands of CSW (which you can start using no-fail at level 4) then a maximized heal may be more useful in intense combat, albeit not available as often beween rests.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wisdomstorment View Post
    This is very timely info for me. Good work sir. +1.

    Using a modified version of Tihocan's tempest build at the moment and was just thinking about stopping at Ranger 15 for precisely the reasons mentioned above - CSW, FoM and 4th FE, and the underwhelmingness of Tempest III.

    My concerns about taking more fighter levels was basically in the loss of skill points. How high do you think rogue skills like DD, OL, Search, Spot need to get to be effective at non-epic endgame? I've heard figures of 50+ being quoted before.
    You want your DD and Search to be full 23 ranks. Search because you don't get a roll of d20 on search, and not finding the box means no trapmonkeying. DD because a blown box makes you look bad.

    High spot is good too, but only really useful if the traps are randomly located. Rangers can also get away with skimping a couple points, if necessary, due to the spell they get for boosting it.

    Open Lock, for nearly all content, can be heavily sacrificed. While some doors in epic VoN have a dc of 70, the generally-useful DC is around 50 at endgame, epic or non-epic. Since locks don't blow up, you can add a +20 from your roll if you're patient. Then, in addition to your ranks, you'll get your Dex modifier (higher than Int usually), along with any buffs you have on (greater heroism +4 maybe) and your skill boost (another +4) and your +15 escape item. Between all this you could have an Open Lock skill of maybe 5 to 10 and still be effective for most locks.

    The build can get what it needs even on the tome-less build (you could sacrifice 1 UMD skill in order to max both Search and Disable). Once you add in a +2 int tome at level 7, the skill point issue gets a lot nicer, of course.

    That is not to deny it: I have set the Int low enough to get the skills you need, only if you have planned it out from the start. The build is very tight for skill points.

    You'll probably be worried more about your reflex save against traps than your trap skills, to be honest. Pure rogues get trap sense (increased saves against traps) and it lets them be a bit more relaxed standing in the middle of trap-ville getting the box. Keeping some gear on you to bump up your reflex save, as well as carrying heroism potions, is a mandatory thing here at higher level.

  17. #17
    Community Member MeatSheild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Would it viable to take 4 monk insted of the 4 fighter? You loose out on a feat, but you can take your Tepest pre feats with the monk ones, open up some of that heal amp for non-helf races, open up those handwraps, get more skill points than the fighter, and have stances for higher situational stats (fire for str and heal amp with jiz-teka (sp?), water for reflex, air for dex skills). Just tossing in my two copper.

  18. #18
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MeatSheild View Post
    Would it viable to take 4 monk insted of the 4 fighter? You loose out on a feat, but you can take your Tepest pre feats with the monk ones, open up some of that heal amp for non-helf races, open up those handwraps, get more skill points than the fighter, and have stances for higher situational stats (fire for str and heal amp with jiz-teka (sp?), water for reflex, air for dex skills). Just tossing in my two copper.
    You would lose DPS of 2 damage on each weapon, lose 15 or 20 HP from Fighter Toughness II and 8 HP versus Fighter from monk levels, lose Haste Boost II, and lose Fighter Strength I.

    You would have one more feat than my build because the monk levels don't give you anything new worth buying feats for, whereas the 4 fighter levels give you 3 feats and want you to spend 2 for DPS.

    You would have 3 more reflex save from levels of monk, 2 more reflex save in lesser ocean stance, 1 more save against traps if you bother to select "way of the clever monkey," and 10% healing amp. When unarmored and unencumbered and wearing no shield, you'll get more AC from Wisdom.

    You would not use handwraps, kamas, or any other ki weapon without a gigantic loss of DPS.

    Overall, Mikey doesn't like it. With four fighter levels, I get all the goodies I want for the bare minimum loss of melee DPS (not sure of the calculation yet but I can't see it going above 2% versus Tempest III even geared to the teeth). With four monk levels, I give up the fighter goodies I like for some monk goodies I'm not even sure I really need and take a heavy loss of DPS.

    If I wanted a higher reflex save, the main advantage of splashing Monk and Rogue, I'd go Ranger 15 / Monk 2 / Rogue 3. Then I'd get +1 Trap Sense from rogue, +2 saves lesser ocean stance from monk, the better saves progression of both (the second level gives +3 reflex from each), the two feats of Monk (take Lightning Reflexes for another +2 now - why not?), more skill points from rogue, and an additional 1d6 sneak attack damage that makes me feel better about the DPS loss. Basically, a better choice for a dedicated Tempest trapmonkey.

    On second thought, Ranger 15 / Rogue 4 / Monk 1 would be better for that purpose. You get +4 situational reflex save from uncanny dodge (and you still get lesser ocean stance too), can buy another trap sense enhancement if you like, the saves progression is a wash due to +4 at rogue level 4, you get more rogue levels and skill points for fitting even more skills in comfortably, and most importantly you can get a little bit more situational DPS, through rogue haste boost II and sneak attack training II.

    The build I propose doesn't go for the best possible trapmonkeying. It is satisfied with being a casual trap artist who will acknowledge that his reflex may not be up to snuff for the hardest traps. It is really drawn out for the person who wants to solo sometimes and also wants to be able to get traps whether on their own or in most groups... hence why the fighter level DPS is nice, as it isn't reliant on sneak attack damage. Also why Freedom of Movement is good, as you can't ask the divines for it while out on your own, and hold spells will ruin your day with your will save. And why we can suffer a possible minor DPS loss in order to get better self-healing, even though in groups where you are being healed it doesn't do anything major to have a metamagic feat on a ranger... especially considering the group may want your blue bar for your buffs (although there's plenty of groups that expect you to be self-sufficient, and this is great for that).
    Last edited by Luckness; 07-16-2011 at 07:06 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    46

    Default

    I have a question on Human vs Half-Elf. With the Half-Elves higher AC and higher Healing amp, what would be the disadvantage of taking one instead of a human, besides the dex tome being needed?(assuming both have a 32pt build)
    Last edited by Xakan; 07-17-2011 at 12:13 AM.

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xakan View Post
    I have a question on Human vs Half-Elf. With the Half-Elves higher AC and higher Healing amp, what would be the disadvantage of taking one instead of a human, besides the dex tome being needed?(assuming both have a 32pt build)
    Humans:
    * Free Feat
    * 1 Extra Skill Point Per Level
    * Epic beards?

    Half-Elves:
    * Dilletante
    * Elven Dexterity option
    * Hair falling in the face?

    In my build I used the human to drop 2 ability points in Intellect while getting the same skills. The Half-Elf has to spend those 2 points in Int and also 3 points in Wisdom (with +2 tome) in order to get where he wants. That's 5 ability points that could be put in Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution instead.

    On my 32-point human (character generator not listed), he'd get an even strength number from Fighter Strength I and 5 level-ups, so he might buy Constitution and Dexterity. On the Half-Elf version I can't afford an 18 Strength and I also want to get my dexterity up for AC, thus I chose to go with Human Adaptability Strength and Dexterity. The human ends up with 30 more HP between Racial Toughness III and taking Constitution to 15. As to the feat, the example chose Mental Toughness, but you could have something even more nice for it if you have certain past lives.

    Half-Elf is a good choice for just the reasons you mentioned. I'd probably make a decision this way.

    1 - Do I really, absolutely must have the human feat... or does 30 less HP make me lose sleep? Do I not have the other races unlocked? If yes to any of these, go human or dwarf.
    2 - Do I really want to see how high I can push the AC or healing amp on this build? Go half-elf.
    3 - Go by looks or flip a coin... or Orc it up for more DPS.


Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload