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  1. #1
    Community Member OldAquarian's Avatar
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    Default HaHa Shuriken Assassin

    Max Shuriken Damage

    Shuriken (d2 20/x2) -
    1.5 avg damage
    + 2 Drow racial
    + 6 Weapon
    +10 (assume a 30 STR)
    ----
    18.5

    With sneak attack
    35 - 10d6 SA rogue level 20
    10.5 - 3d6 Assassin
    14 - 4d6 Capstone
    12 - Attach Training IV
    ---
    71.5 Sneak Attack

    Total = 90 average damage with a shuriken

    Plus your favorite elemental burst
    And Instakill on a 20 (or +100 damage)

    DEX
    20 Base
    5 Level ups
    2 Elf Dex
    3 Rogue Dex
    2 Tome
    6 Item
    1 exceptional
    1 litany
    ---
    40

    And a pretty high rate of attack
    Haste
    Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Quickdraw
    Rapid Shot
    Shuriken Expertise roughly 40% extra

    Quick comparison to bow speed
    Bow - with Manyshot = x4 for 20 out of 120 or +3/6 or +50%

    This is still very very much a flavor build, and was inspired by this thread - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=326783

    Shortcomings of this build
    No melee ability - unless you roll a 20
    Squishy Drow
    Posting in guild when you make a GS Shuriken
    very, very dependant on sneak attack
    Subtle Backstabbing does not work on thrown (at least per description)

    Benefits of this build
    Killing things with a shuriken
    Shurikens are cheap on the AH

    Comments welcome

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    HaHa Killed u witha shuriken
    Level 20 True Neutral Drow Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 212
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 23
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    14
    Dexterity            20                    32
    Constitution         12                    14
    Intelligence         12                    16
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             10                    12
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    Last edited by OldAquarian; 07-15-2011 at 05:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member HelvanderSeries6's Avatar
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    Somebody had to
    Wits and swords are as straws against the wisdom of the Darkness___Conan the Cimmerian
    Gnomes taste like mushrooms...jus say'n
    Order of the Stick http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html

  3. #3
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    I think your build would be better with a Halfling, no? You trade +2dmg Drow racial for +3 Halfling racial and +4SA for Guile.

    Swap Dex for Str and use Brutal Throw? That's +2 damage if I calculate it correctly (max 23 STR compared to 32 DEX due to lack of STR enhancements). But that would open up some APs to go halfling, but also losing another +1 damage due to lower starting STR.

    What about Half Elf, 20 Monk, Ninja Spy with Rogue dilly? You lose 9d6 and gain 10k stars. I bring it up because a guildie is planning something similar and I'm trying to help optimize his build.

    Actually, it's not even close. You're losing haste boost too and 10k stars has a long cooldown. I don't think there's any way you can splash even the min 6 levels of monk and come out ahead. Full rogue getting full SA is definitely the best.

    Why are we putting so much thought into this?

  4. #4
    Community Member TempestAlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XL_Jockey View Post
    I think your build would be better with a Halfling, no? You trade +2dmg Drow racial for +3 Halfling racial and +4SA for Guile.
    But then you are using a feat to get Shuriken which Drow get for free. Admitedly if you are going to rely on sneak damage all the time Halfling has appeal due to the Guile and other bonuses, its just if you can work in the extra feat.



    Quote Originally Posted by XL_Jockey View Post
    Why are we putting so much thought into this?
    Because its a slow day for drama so far?
    Shapshap, League of Extraordinary Ham, Sarlona and a bunch of alts that all have names begining with Sha or Sho. Of course Shapshap could be the alt and one of the others the main, it just depends on what day it is.

  5. #5
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    I think it's discussed so much because people want to throw shurikens on their ninjas. Sadly, even though monks get 10K stars, it still blows chunks for damage, but it will certainly get the enemy ranged guys attacking the shuriken tosser instead of the party's healers, so I guess it's not a total loss....sort of a very minor lesser crowd control special move called "Annoy Enemy."

    If ur serious about shuriken tossing though, assassin is the only way to go, and with the coming Soon(TM) Assassin III's ability to level drain on crits, a shuriken tosser in range for SA and with Improved Precise Shot can really add something to a party's win factor. Sure, they may not get all assassinates on every toss, but IPS-provided level draining for no spell points isn't a bad thing.

    Of course, knowing the mad love that melee gets, the new A-III ability won't work on ranged attacks, but one can dream.

    Also, didn't I read somewhere that Drow get the shuriken expertise for free and that it equals dexterity as a chance to "double toss" percentage?

  6. #6
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    How about:

    12/7/1 Monk/Rogue/Fighter

    Shuriken (d2 20/x2) -
    1.5 avg damage
    + 3 Halfling racial (oops thought this was +2)
    + 5 Weapon (not sure where you go a +6 shuriken from)
    +10 (assume a 30 STR)
    +5 Power Attack (yes this works)
    ----
    23.5

    With sneak attack
    14 - 4d6 SA rogue level 7
    3.5 - Assassin I
    10.5 - 3d6 Ninja Spy II
    8 - Halfling Guile IV
    9 - Attach Training III
    ---
    68.5 Sneak Attack

    Total = 67.425 average damage with a shuriken
    Not sure how you got 90, my calc comes out to about 69.775 per.

    DEX
    20 Base
    5 Level ups
    2 Halfling Dex
    2 Rogue Dex
    3 Master of Storms
    2 Tome
    6 Item
    1 exceptional
    1 litany (or +1 ship perhaps)
    ---
    42 (44 with +2 ex dex on a ToD ring)

    Rate of attack
    Haste
    Rogue Haste Boost IIII
    Quickdraw
    Rapid Shot
    7.5% Double strike
    Shuriken Expertise roughly 42% extra

    Stats: (32 pt)

    STR 12
    DEX 20
    CON 14
    INT 12
    WIS 8
    CHA 8

    Feats:
    Monk Bonus feats:
    1st - Dodge
    2nd - Shuriken Expertise
    3rd - Toughness
    Fighter Bonus feat:
    1st - TWF
    Regular feats:
    1st - Quick Draw
    2nd - Point Blank Shot
    3rd - Rapid Shot
    4th - Improved Critical (thrown weapons)
    5th - Precise shot
    6th - Improved Precise Shot
    7th - Power Attack

    (possibly swap out TWF for stunning fist, but I get the feeling it wouldn't be worth it).

    Gains an extra 7.5% double strike, and has access to Ten thousand stars (hear that it doesn't work right, but there was talk of fixing it and making it kind of like many shot). Also slightly higher dex.

    Outside of the shurikens, you then get:

    Bunch more HP (higher con, base HD, toughness enhancements, animal line)
    25% incorporeal
    Touch of Death
    ITWF
    Water walking (you know it's fun)
    Decent melee ability for when if you do pull aggro and lose sneak attack. (2d6 unarmed strike)
    Abundant Step
    Monk Improved Recovery


    --------

    Not sure if this actually works out to more damage (if not it should be pretty close behind), but I like the other bonuses you get with this set up.

    I may have to go make this now. Thanks for the inspiration.
    Last edited by Diyon; 07-15-2011 at 08:21 AM.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  7. #7
    Community Member OldAquarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XL_Jockey View Post
    I think your build would be better with a Halfling, no? You trade +2dmg Drow racial for +3 Halfling racial and +4SA for Guile
    Drow get two critical feat for free - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken and Shuriken Expertise
    Not enough feat slots for any other race to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    How about:

    12/7/1 Monk/Rogue/Fighter

    Total = 67.425 average damage with a shuriken
    Not sure how you got 90, my calc comes out to about 69.775 per.
    My build is 20 Rogue Assassin III - thats a lot more Sneak Attack
    DEX
    2 Rogue Dex
    3 Master of Storms
    Yes you do get +3 stance but -1 rogue for +2 Dex, but lose a lot of sneak attack
    Rate of attack
    Rogue Haste Boost IIII
    7.5% Double strike
    Shuriken Expertise roughly 42% extra
    Doublestrike only applies to melee attacks - Rogue 7 only gets Haste III
    access to Ten thousand stars (hear that it doesn't work right, but there was talk of fixing it and making it kind of like many shot). Also slightly higher dex.
    When they fix 10,000 stars - might be worth changing to use it
    Not sure if this actually works out to more damage (if not it should be pretty close behind), but I like the other bonuses you get with this set up.
    It's a lot less sneak attack and attack speed - so much lower damage

    Quote Originally Posted by TempestAlphaOmega View Post
    But then you are using a feat to get Shuriken which Drow get for free. Admitedly if you are going to rely on sneak damage all the time Halfling has appeal due to the Guile and other bonuses, its just if you can work in the extra feat.
    Drow get two critical feat for free - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken and Shuriken Expertise

  8. #8
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldAquarian View Post
    Drow get two critical feat for free - Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken and Shuriken Expertise
    Not enough feat slots for any other race to do it.


    My build is 20 Rogue Assassin III - thats a lot more Sneak Attack
    Ah, I see what I missed, you had two separate numbers before the 90, I had cumulative values.
    Yes you do get +3 stance but -1 rogue for +2 Dex, but lose a lot of sneak attack
    Right, but that's still a +2% for an extra 67ish damage.
    Doublestrike only applies to melee attacks - Rogue 7 only gets Haste III
    You may be right about the double strike here. However, do note that Opportunist specifically says melee attacks, wind stance says nothing like this.

    When they fix 10,000 stars - might be worth changing to use it
    True. However, from what I've seen mentioned about U11 I get the feeling that this may be coming soon. In anycase, what exactly does it do now?

    It's a lot less sneak attack and attack speed - so much lower damage

    Ya, without 10k stars working this is definitely the case. I do still like the other bonuses that come with using ninja spy II. Although after looking at the enhancements a little more closely, ToD may have to be dropped due to the huge cost of it against the SA training and cunning/guile line.
    Responses in green.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  9. #9
    Community Member Miow's Avatar
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    if you could glue bees to your shuriken that would be a nice dmg boost

  10. #10
    Community Member KingOfCheese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    if you could glue bees to your shuriken that would be a nice dmg boost
    Or glue kopeshes to them.
    INFERUS SUS Sorcs (Socky, Sockie, Socklin), Rogues (Sockpuppet, Sockum), Clerics (Sockington, Sockase), FVS (Sockle), Intim (Tubesocks), Bards (Sockdolenger, Sockish), Rangers (Sockin, Sockel), Wizzy (Sockut), Kensai (Sockt), Monk (Sockfist), Arty (Sockficer, Sockcraft)

  11. #11
    Community Member MaxwellEdison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miow View Post
    if you could glue bees to your shuriken that would be a nice dmg boost
    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfCheese View Post
    Or glue kopeshes to them.
    Couldn't throw them without monkey grip then.

  12. #12
    Community Member OldAquarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    You may be right about the double strike here. However, do note that Opportunist specifically says melee attacks, wind stance says nothing like this..
    Wind Stance is double strike which is melee only and speed that doesn't stack with haste

  13. #13
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldAquarian View Post
    Wind Stance is double strike which is melee only and speed that doesn't stack with haste
    That should really be changed. Before double strike, wind stance was supposed to have an equal increase to both melee and thrown weapon attack speed, which is not reflected in the double strike update to it.

    (I knew the speed part didn't stack with haste)
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  14. #14
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Must admit I have been considering shuriken and backstab damage, but went about it slightly differently. Was considering ranger 6 (DWS I, i want that extra range) rogue 13 and fighter 1. Drow of course.


    Progression

    1 Rogue
    2 Ranger
    3 Rogue
    4 Ranger
    5 Rogue
    6 Ranger
    7 Rogue
    8 Ranger
    9 Rogue
    10 Ranger
    11 Rogue
    12 Ranger
    13 Fighter
    14-20 Rogue

    Feats

    1 Point Blank Shot
    3 Quick Draw
    6 Weapon Focus
    9 Precise Shot
    12 Improved Critical Thrown
    FB(13) Improved Precise Shot
    15 Toughness
    18 GTWF

    Stats (34 point)

    Str 16 +5lvl, +2 tome, +6 item = 29
    Dex 17 +5 enhancement, +2 tome, +6 item = 30
    Con 14 +2 tome, +6item = 22
    Int 12 +2 tome = 14
    Wis 8
    Cha 10

    Just a thought. Was trying to shoehorn some options for up close and personal in case things got to close so will dual wield rapier and shortsword in offhand, well they do come free with shuriken enhancements. I am not trying to hijack your thread but would welcome any feedback.

    Thanks

    Emi
    Last edited by Emizand; 07-15-2011 at 11:47 AM.

  15. #15
    Community Member MaxwellEdison's Avatar
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    Where are you taking Weapon Focus: Ranged, which is req'd for DWS?

  16. #16
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxwellEdison View Post
    Where are you taking Weapon Focus: Ranged, which is req'd for DWS?

    Nice catch. Changed. Thanks

  17. #17
    Community Member OldAquarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    Nice catch. Changed. Thanks
    Okay this thread is supposed to be all about me, but I'll share, what do you think about me

    I'm thinking that 1 Monk is better that 1 fighter as you get Wind stance for +2 DEX
    Also, taking Toughness on a Drow that late will be painful to level, so swap to monk - take it earlier and use it for toughness

  18. #18
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldAquarian View Post
    Okay this thread is supposed to be all about me, but I'll share, what do you think about me
    Please accept my appologies. I think you are pumping to much into dex. Surely you dont need that much to hit so I assume it is for the second hit that you are taking dex so high. I think I would be tempted to push the level ups into str, however i dont know whether a +2/3 to damage is going to be more beneficial than the extra 5% chance of an extra hit. so +2/3 each hit v's an extra hit every 20th throw?



    Quote Originally Posted by OldAquarian View Post
    I'm thinking that 1 Monk is better that 1 fighter as you get Wind stance for +2 DEX
    Also, taking Toughness on a Drow that late will be painful to level, so swap to monk - take it earlier and use it for toughness
    +2 dex is good, -2 con on a drow could be painful. ;-) I am playing in a static group, we are levl 19 now and will be TRing as soon as we hit 20, I can share my pain. :-) Monk just seem to much of a cookie cutter choice, I know thats a poor excuse, but .......

    ps, thanks for the comments I will think on it.

  19. #19
    Community Member t0r012's Avatar
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    with 12 starting str what is your plan for getting to that 30 str you have stated in the damage calcs?
    ====
    edit:
    with all your level ups in dex?
    Move along , Nothing to see here

  20. #20
    Community Member Greeka's Avatar
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    His 30 strength with a base of 12 to start:

    12 + 5 for levels + 7 str Epic item (Envenomed Cloak I think) + 1 exceptional + 2 exceptional + 3 str tome = 30

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