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  1. #1
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Default Greater Lawful Outsider Bane + Greater Dragon Bane

    So, I already made my piece known on Holy Burst, and we can see how exceedingly successful I was with that. Oh well, I run my Silver Flame Favor I suppose, and no one Premium manages to craft it without paying extra - the man wins.

    But I'm moving on - let's talk about the Shards in the OP:

    Greater Lawful Outsider Bane
    Large Devil Scale

    Greater Dragon Bane
    Flawless Siberys Dragonshard

    All other ingredients aside, let's talk about those.

    Now, finding "Holy Burst Silver of GLOB" with any +Enhancement bonus out in the wild? You're more likely to pull a Litany. Pretty rare, I admit.

    So, what choice do you have if you're not a Paladin w/Holy Sword? Well... you want to bust DR. And you want to do damage. MoPG is an option for Busting DR, but not really for doing damage. Your Flaming Burst of GLOB does good end numbers, and ensures a high to-hit, but ... doesn't break DR.

    So your best choice? Craft a Min II. The Acid isn't *great* against Devils, but it busts DR, has a high base damage, has Holy, and no one will question you using it in Shroud/VoD/ToD. But ohdear... the cost. 5 Large Devil Scales, and an assortment of other larges? That's going to be expensive. Oh, I'll just run Shroud, and see how long that takes to get.

    [Sidenote, since most forumites don't know: It took me 40+ Part 1-4 farming runs, and 16 completions, before my first toon saw his FIRST Large Devil Scale. Even back to back, that was 48 days. For one.]

    Oh well heck. I can't pull any LDS... oh wait! Cannith Crafting, that's right! I've taken all my mats from running all these Shrouds, and all my other quests/raids/epics, and deconstructed them! I've also bought some from the AH, and maybe from time to time bought some from other players, or used an XP pot from the guild store. I've invested a decent chunk of time and plat on this, and prevented myself from earning plat by not selling high-value items to the vendors.

    Yeah - that sounds good. I'll use Cannith Crafting, so I don't have to keep getting disappointed by Shroud's lack of.... Large Scales. [Insert your favorite four letter word here.] And now that I've used all my money/random loot on Cannith Crafting? Well, I don't actually have the funds to buy one from the AH. So, nuts to that.

    Moving on....


    Greater Dragon Bane. I'll keep this one short. No one in their right mind is going to trade a level 20 Feat Swap to **** a single dang shard. Especially when a Lit II outperforms +5 Icy Burst + Axiomatic Burst of Greater Dragon Bane vs. Epic Velah. (There was a thread on it, if you're that interested look it up)

    TL;DR - If we invest the time to level to the appropriate Cannith Crafting level to make these high-level shards, don't punish us for having done so.

  2. #2
    Community Member scottmike0's Avatar
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    i guess im glad they made it harder to craft maybe people will stop crafting these and work on gs loot. man now im getting to think crafting is useless. as soon as i get my blood rage robe im fine since nothing else is good for me besides gs items.

  3. #3
    Community Member Grenada's Avatar
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    Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it took you over 40 farming runs before u got 1 LDS?

    I don't know how rare they are, but i have ~10 completions of shroud (haven't farmed it yet), and I've pulled 2 (got one on my very first run )

    Back on track, I would like it if they didn't add such valuable items to the crafting recipes.

  4. #4
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Default crafting

    I like most of the crafting changes. I think it should be difficult and expensive to make a HB Silver of Greater Anything. Clearly some things still need to be changed and hopefully Turbine will make the right decisions.

    On a side not though. My last dry spell was 48 Runs with No LDS. It was pretty depressing....
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  5. #5
    Community Member kernal42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grenada View Post
    I don't know how rare they are, but i have ~10 completions of shroud (haven't farmed it yet), and I've pulled 2 (got one on my very first run )
    On average, you should pull one LDS every 4 completions, or every 12 1-4 farms. The OP was hugely unlucky here, and bases his entire argument off of this poor luck.

    The LDS is a tiny, tiny price to pay for this weapon. 1 LDS for +4 holy burst silver of GLOB, or 5 LDS for a MinII? There's no comparison.

    Heck, if you don't want to spent the LDS, a +4 holy silver of LOB still outclasses MinII.

    Cheers,
    Kernal

  6. #6
    Community Member scottmike0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    I like most of the crafting changes. I think it should be difficult and expensive to make a HB Silver of Greater Anything. Clearly some things still need to be changed and hopefully Turbine will make the right decisions.

    On a side not though. My last dry spell was 48 Runs with No LDS. It was pretty depressing....
    jeeze you guys sure know how to farm , usually it takes me 3 runs then a completion to get it. yet when i dont i just join an amrath group and get it i think most of my lds came in amrath maybe this gives you a hint
    also im glad somebody agrees with me in the crafting i dont see any purpose of a +5echanced crafting item to be easy if so what will the purpose be

  7. #7
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottmike0 View Post
    i guess im glad they made it harder to craft maybe people will stop crafting these and work on gs loot. man now im getting to think crafting is useless. as soon as i get my blood rage robe im fine since nothing else is good for me besides gs items.
    Right, because people needed a reason to run Shroud, and craft more GS....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grenada View Post
    Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it took you over 40 farming runs before u got 1 LDS?

    I don't know how rare they are, but i have ~10 completions of shroud (haven't farmed it yet), and I've pulled 2 (got one on my very first run )

    Back on track, I would like it if they didn't add such valuable items to the crafting recipes.
    My luck with LDS is better now. Despite what our brains tell us, the drop rate of all Larges is, indeed, equal. Still...

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    On a side not though. My last dry spell was 48 Runs with No LDS. It was pretty depressing....
    You have instances like this. So now it's going to be people making a choice between crafting a High-DPS weapon, or getting their toon a Min II - and I guarantee there *will* be someone wielding a +5 HBSoGLOB weapon in one of my runs one of these days... with 0% Fort. Because they had to make that rather ill-conceived judgment call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    I like most of the crafting changes. I think it should be difficult and expensive to make a HB Silver of Greater Anything. Clearly some things still need to be changed and hopefully Turbine will make the right decisions.
    I've still yet to hear anything here on these forums, or from fellow Sarlonian crafters, that has trumped personal experience on this particular point:

    Making a GLOB Shard, pre-10.1, was expensive, but doable.

    Crafting the whole package of a +5 HBSoGLOB? Ouch. If I stop to actually make one of these, I don't gain a crafting level for a few days, because I'm out of Lessers.

    If they wanted to use a Small/Medium Devil scale, just to make it more thematically appropriate? Sure, I could dig that. It's still an added cost, and requires running Shroud/DA/Amrath, or requires buying/trading from someone else... without being so punitive just to make a single shard.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by kernal42 View Post
    On average, you should pull one LDS every 4 completions, or every 12 1-4 farms. The OP was hugely unlucky here, and bases his entire argument off of this poor luck.

    The LDS is a tiny, tiny price to pay for this weapon. 1 LDS for +4 holy burst silver of GLOB, or 5 LDS for a MinII? There's no comparison.

    Heck, if you don't want to spent the LDS, a +4 holy silver of LOB still outclasses MinII.

    Cheers,
    Kernal
    To be fair there's a comparsion. You are almost assured to have to spend more in game time to craft the hb silver glob weapon, a fair bit of it is time I would say is more bland than running the shroud and the associated content to get there. That said I don't really think it's unfair cost.

  9. #9
    Community Member Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Greater Dragon Bane. I'll keep this one short. No one in their right mind is going to trade a level 20 Feat Swap to **** a single dang shard. Especially when a Lit II outperforms +5 Icy Burst + Axiomatic Burst of Greater Dragon Bane vs. Epic Velah. (There was a thread on it, if you're that interested look it up)
    Monks, that know better, don't have the Lit II option. So, +5 Festival Icy Burst, Axiomatic Burst Handwraps of Greater Dragon Bane with the Force Damage Ritual and a Medium or Large Guild Augment Slot are looking pretty good to me.

    I'm just happy I created a bunch of Greater Dragon Bane Shards several days ago.
    Last edited by Arkat; 07-13-2011 at 12:10 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Iwinbyrollup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palantyr View Post
    To be fair there's a comparsion. You are almost assured to have to spend more in game time to craft the hb silver glob weapon, a fair bit of it is time I would say is more bland than running the shroud and the associated content to get there. That said I don't really think it's unfair cost.
    Meh. I started running Shroud nearly a year ago and have three completed tier 3 items, two dual shards and one single shard. I have most of the ingredients for another dual shard, just need one more. If I ran more regularly, I'd be better off, but whatever.

    I've been crafting since U9, usually deconstructing for around 15 minutes once a day and then crafting for up to an hour once or twice a week. I can easily make a +4 Holy Silver of Lawful Outsider Bane weapon, so long as I have the essences for it and the Silver weapons, which I've been building up since crafting was released (I may have to start selling them soon). I can attempt +5 Holy Burst Silver of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane; have 100% success on the +5, and now need a few more levels for the HB and the GLOB before I'm willing to attempt those again.

    The difference between the two is that once you hit the crafting level, you've passed the grind for those weapons. Each additional Cannith weapon I create is minimal grind; each additional GS weapon I create is the same grind as it was for the first one. So that first +5 Holy Burst Silver of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane may have cost me more than a Min II would have, but each additional one will, in essence, be lowering the cost of the first. Crafting isn't so great if you only have one character and are never going to gear a second character. But when you have a lot of characters, it's nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Monks, that know better, don't have the Lit II option. So, +5 Festival Icy Burst, Axiomatic Burst Handwraps of Greater Dragon Bane with the Force Damage Ritual and a Medium or Large Guild Augment Slot are looking pretty good to me.

    I'm just happy I created a bunch of Greater Dragon Bane Shards several days ago.
    No Festival Icy Burst on crafted weapons.

    But yeah, I'm planning on putting the Festival Icy Burst on those lootgen +4 Axiomatic Handwraps of Greater Dragon Bane that I pulled.
    Last edited by Iwinbyrollup; 07-13-2011 at 12:30 PM.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    So make a +4 Holy of Bane... easy to make, and almost as good as a Min II...

    If you want the awesome +5 Holy Burst of Greater Bane, it's going to cost you.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Right, because people needed a reason to run Shroud, and craft more GS....
    At least grinding shroud runs means hanging with guildies and drinking/laughing, pugging runs and facepalming/laughing and, you know... playing the actual game with other people. Which makes it what it is, a fun game.

    Craft grinding is terrible for the game, no fun, and I'm sure bad for your mental health.

    Adding in additional costs means you'll have to get out and grind other parts of the game... the flaw was that they picked the already grindy areas. They should have found a way to turn down the suck... err... grind and integrate it better so that people will run a variety of quests at a range of levels.

  13. #13
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Monks, that know better, don't have the Lit II option. So, +5 Festival Icy Burst, Axiomatic Burst Handwraps of Greater Dragon Bane with the Force Damage Ritual and a Medium or Large Guild Augment Slot are looking pretty good to me.

    I'm just happy I created a bunch of Greater Dragon Bane Shards several days ago.
    As is said below....

    Quote Originally Posted by Iwinbyrollup View Post
    No Festival Icy Burst on crafted weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    So make a +4 Holy of Bane... easy to make, and almost as good as a Min II...

    If you want the awesome +5 Holy Burst of Greater Bane, it's going to cost you.
    I'm fine with it costing me - How does 70 something levels in two crafting schools sound as far as cost?

    You get level 20, you don't need to then go on a voyage to discover yourself every time you reset your enhancements. You got the XP, you're there, enjoy it.

    Also, it mixes two different types of crafting - I don't like that. Crafting should be an aside to Green Steel, at least in my humble opinion. Combining the two isn't so great.

    Note that I'm not complaining about GCOB shards, even though they require a Demon's Blood, which is of semi-equivalent open market value last I checked. Demon's Blood is a boot mat, sure, but it's not a crafting ingredient - my choice isn't Min II or Cannith Crafted specials. Furthermore, a Demon's Blood is only needed once per toon, whereas the large scales that a single toon has equipped on them at any one time can easily reach over 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by HGM-Chi View Post
    At least grinding shroud runs means hanging with guildies and drinking/laughing, pugging runs and facepalming/laughing and, you know... playing the actual game with other people. Which makes it what it is, a fun game.

    Craft grinding is terrible for the game, no fun, and I'm sure bad for your mental health.

    Adding in additional costs means you'll have to get out and grind other parts of the game... the flaw was that they picked the already grindy areas. They should have found a way to turn down the suck... err... grind and integrate it better so that people will run a variety of quests at a range of levels.
    While this is off topic for the relative cost of it, and seems rather to be an anti-crafting in general post...

    Who said crafting has to be an Antisocial event? Almost every time I'm at the crafting devices, I have 2-3 people in party with me. Chatting. Socializing. So instead of running around in circles around the ship while chatting like I used to, now I'm running around the Crafting Hall.

    So.. crafting is what you make of it, socially speaking.

  14. #14
    Community Member kernal42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    I'm fine with it costing me - How does 70 something levels in two crafting schools sound as far as cost?
    That sounds orders of magnitude more expensive than the LDS you're complaining about; why do you ask?

    -Kernal

  15. #15
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernal42 View Post
    That sounds orders of magnitude more expensive than the LDS you're complaining about; why do you ask?

    -Kernal
    Your statement only furthers my point, which is:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    TL;DR - If we invest the time to level to the appropriate Cannith Crafting level to make these high-level shards, don't punish us for having done so.
    Orders of magnitude more expensive - good way of putting it. No point in crafting being punitive as a result of that expenditure.

  16. #16
    Community Member Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwinbyrollup View Post
    No Festival Icy Burst on crafted weapons.
    Crud! I forgot that.

    Thanks for the reminder.

  17. #17
    Community Member Xaxx's Avatar
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    the large devil scale is available atleast through game in several places with a relative drop rate.... the dragon shard and dragons blood though... available very few places and drop rates of dragons blood are exceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedingly low... as in almost non existent for anywhere but epic velah. Those two items are essentially buy from the store if you wish to craft greater dragons bane... the shards are bad enough, but to require things that will basically have to be bought from the store or spend 3 lives collecting for one item is so far beyond bullcrap its not even funny.


    They fixed nothing.... created many more bugs..... and banged the pooch on crafting recipes in general... woohoo another normal turbine patch.

  18. #18
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxx View Post
    the large devil scale is available atleast through game in several places with a relative drop rate.... the dragon shard and dragons blood though... available very few places and drop rates of dragons blood are exceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedingly low... as in almost non existent for anywhere but epic velah. Those two items are essentially buy from the store if you wish to craft greater dragons bane... the shards are bad enough, but to require things that will basically have to be bought from the store or spend 3 lives collecting for one item is so far beyond bullcrap its not even funny.


    They fixed nothing.... created many more bugs..... and banged the pooch on crafting recipes in general... woohoo another normal turbine patch.
    Yeah, that's why I kept my portion on Greater Dragon Bane rather short. It's unreasonable to the point that its flaws almost speak for themselves.

  19. #19
    Community Member kernal42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDearLeader View Post
    Your statement only furthers my point, which is:



    Orders of magnitude more expensive - good way of putting it. No point in crafting being punitive as a result of that expenditure.
    Your argument is illogical.

    There obviously is a point is recipes being expensive despite the cost to level. If they were free, for example, the first person to craft unbound holy and LOB shards could flood the market with new bossbeaters for free.

    That said, my preference would be for good shards to remain expensive, but to also lessen the cost of leveling somewhat.

    -Kernal

  20. #20
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kernal42 View Post
    Your argument is illogical.

    There obviously is a point is recipes being expensive despite the cost to level. If they were free, for example, the first person to craft unbound holy and LOB shards could flood the market with new bossbeaters for free.

    That said, my preference would be for good shards to remain expensive, but to also lessen the cost of leveling somewhat.

    -Kernal
    My argument is logical.

    I never said make shards free, so your example is rather biased, and off point.

    No one is asking for free shards - but asking for a GS Large, an ingredient with high value by it's lonesome, is a high cost. Punitively high.

    The benefit to obtaining a high crafting level is, naturally, to craft high level shards. By giving it a high crafting level, it has a limitation. By giving it an appropriate cost in Greaters and Lessers, it has a limitation. By giving it an enhancement bonus, and an amount of minimum level change on an item, it has a limitation. By requiring that weapons upgrade from Craftable +5 to 6,7,8,up to 13 for the "ideal boss beater", it has a limitation.

    Now, it also has Purified Ebb. Dragonshard Essences, and Large Devil scales.

    What gate needs 6 different gatekeepers?

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