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  1. #41
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    People are entitled to any opinion. But sharing it is a different story. If you have nothing constructive to add to a public discussion, keep it to yourself...or at least, don't get all hurt when called on it.
    That seems a little harsh. Generally a respectful conversation regarding ones opinions with those of differing view points will lead to a common ground. From common ground compromises are often reached.

    Why do you hate civil discourse?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    This isn't an add-your-suggestion thread, it's you saying it should be left alone. Which is one minor step above the people that cry "REMOVE ITT!!!!".

    It's an aspect of the game plenty of people enjoy, and considering there is currently ZERO ingame benefit to PvP (except that which people create themselves), I'd say that says alot about the viability of pvp in DDO.
    Actually, I think the fact that there is ZERO in-game risk is what says a lot. Add even repair costs on dieing and see how much viability it has.

  3. #43
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainer View Post
    That seems a little harsh. Generally a respectful conversation regarding ones opinions with those of differing view points will lead to a common ground. From common ground compromises are often reached.

    Why do you hate civil discourse?
    You'd only have a point if there was common ground with the "remove it/forget it" crowd. There is not. Most have zero constructive opinions, based on zero personal investment or interest. You can call that my opinion or you can review the PvP forum.

    I understand that fine and don't have a problem with it. I have zero worthwhile opinions on crafting -- I outright hate it. I don't troll threads with that viewpoint, because I'd be acting like an idiot. Unfortunately, due to some perverted "group-think" forum mentality, it's Ok to be a non-constructive in PvP threads.

  4. #44
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorWhofan View Post
    I want them to make the taverns that have PvP in it their own instances, therefore I don't have to hear it unless I go into said tavern.
    Totally agreed, wish I could give out more rep today.

    As others have mentioned, my issue is more of a lag thing. Sometimes I do enjoy going in the rooms and watching it from time to time, but late night, when it seems the busiest, lag is atrocious.

    Would be nice if they had separate instances for it.

  5. #45
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    You'd only have a point if there was common ground with the "remove it/forget it" crowd. There is not. Most have zero constructive opinions, based on zero personal investment or interest. You can call that my opinion or you can review the PvP forum.

    I understand that fine and don't have a problem with it. I have zero worthwhile opinions on crafting -- I outright hate it. I don't troll threads with that viewpoint, because I'd be acting like an idiot. Unfortunately, due to some perverted "group-think" forum mentality, it's Ok to be a non-constructive in PvP threads.
    If you go back to the OP all he said was (Devs) leave PvP alone. My guess would be that he feels that Development resources could be better spent elsewhere. I lean that way myself. I am not against PvP though. I think if there is some value in it for more than one person, then it should be in the game.

    So while I personally respect everyone's opinion and value all my peers here as human beings, I do feel that some of us may post in a specific thread looking for a fight. I think that is worse for our community than anything PvP could do.

  6. #46
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yajerman01 View Post
    Chai, my point AGAIN is your chqrging up arguments no one is talking about. I have no idea why, but your entitled to bantar away incoherently.
    And your point AGAIN is false. There are people talking about them, a few posts above my own. There are also people participating in neg rep trolling of posts simply due to disagreement, which is just how the hilarity unfolds in these threads.

    And disagreeing =/= bantar away incoherently.

    You must understand by now that many here on the forums are not rage quitters. They are rage joiners. Think tapping people with a few neg rep and telling them to not post here if they dont like it gets rid of those who disagree? What happens is more of the same shows up. What you thought was a nice quite day strolling down the street just turned into a parade, complete with floats, marching bands, and popcorn. Lots and lots of popcorn. Any insinuation that people wanted to have a nice constructive conversation just got ROFLtrained by rep trolls.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #47
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    You'd only have a point if there was common ground with the "remove it/forget it" crowd. There is not. Most have zero constructive opinions, based on zero personal investment or interest. You can call that my opinion or you can review the PvP forum.

    I understand that fine and don't have a problem with it. I have zero worthwhile opinions on crafting -- I outright hate it. I don't troll threads with that viewpoint, because I'd be acting like an idiot. Unfortunately, due to some perverted "group-think" forum mentality, it's Ok to be a non-constructive in PvP threads.
    I disagree. Understanding a 5 year old game was not created for PVP and it will be a HUGE undertaking to add more PVP features to it is where the common ground is. The fact that you disagree with that does not make it "not constructive".
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #48
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainer View Post
    If you go back to the OP all he said was (Devs) leave PvP alone. My guess would be that he feels that Development resources could be better spent elsewhere. I lean that way myself. I am not against PvP though. I think if there is some value in it for more than one person, then it should be in the game.
    I read the OP and I've referenced it often.

    I repeat if I posted a thread asking for crafting to just be left as is in "beta" and the devs should move on, I'd be called out on being stupid.

    You reference the flimsy, unverified "dev resources should be used elsewhere" arguement, implying improvement to pvp automatically suggests less resources elsewhere in game.

    It's all been done before. *shrug*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I disagree. Understanding a 5 year old game was not created for PVP and it will be a HUGE undertaking to add more PVP features to it is where the common ground is. The fact that you disagree with that does not make it "not constructive".
    I could say the same thing about crafting....or guild ships....or F2P implimentation. Your arguements are not only not constructive, they are invalid. So no, there is no "common ground".

  9. #49
    Hall of Famer & Hero DoctorWhofan's Avatar
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    Last time I checked, I (meaning me) suggested the pvp be it's own general chat. Not Chai.

    All he did was agree with me. He got neg repped for that. Pointed out the obvious, people. I dunno how it became he said/she said, but can we agree on this point and move on? Because this is derailing the topic at hand.
    +The Goddess of Tempest's Spine+Merc's Only, THELANIS: List is here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...94#post2798094 LEGIONNAIRE /Salute to Rameses, He has RETURNED!

  10. #50
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloopygloop View Post
    I'm worried about QA time lost to PvP efforts.
    DDO has Q&A?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I bet you dont say the same to those who agree with you, when all the other symptoms are the same. Disagreement =/= invalid point. If you actually wanted there to be common ground in the first place, youd have to accept this. Your post here is merely a blanket response to unconditionally shove onto those who differ in opinion.
    No but if you want to tell yourself that to pretend you have a valid/constructive point and aren't just trolling -- well more power to you. My response to that, rather than play this silly circular arguement, will be to quote you a bit....



    03-17-2010, 03:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    No Ty. No need to add PVP focus to this game.
    03-17-2010, 05:49 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    PVP is just another schwantz waving contest.
    05-05-2010, 09:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    DnD was never intended to be PvP, and never claimed to be balanced for PvP. Trying to start balancing classes based on tavern situations like this would be opening a pandoras box that would never get closed.
    05-25-2010, 03:43 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    If you dont like it, dont PVP. D&D and by proxy DDO is not a class balance game. PVP is a novelty item in DDO and is there to kill time. Want to take PVP seriously, go play WOW.
    09-01-2010, 03:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    /signed. No need to spend an iota of time on PVP.
    09-14-2010, 02:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Telling people who disagree with you to stay off the forum is a cop out. You should be ready to hear the positive and negative feedback about issues that arise. I pay money for this game, and I will let my opinion be known. If it doesnt agree with yours, we can either have a civil disagreement, or the hilarity can ensue. I see which direction most PVP threads go when they call for a nerf of something that will negatively effect PVE.

    /pulls out his bow and queues up many shot. Come git some!!!!
    10-25-2010, 05:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    If using huge amounts of time to revamp PVP has a significant lack of support, and this lack of support is vocalized and made well known, those people hours will likely get allocated to items on the list that garner more player support, such as new content and fixing current issues.
    10-30-2010, 10:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Expressing my interest to NOT further PVP in this game IS participating in the PVP forum. I have a right to express this opinion.
    10-30-2010, 11:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Meanwhile in other news, the people who dont support PVP in this game do so for good reasons, which I have heard no logical refutation to. What I do hear coming from the PVp crowd is nerf requests, finger pointing, and that everyone that doesnt agree with you are trolling.
    10-30-2010, 02:07 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Dont get me wrong - I support PVP - in games that were designed from the ground up with PVP as a focus.

    DDO aint it. Move around.
    10-30-2010, 02:13 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    I will continue to post that I dont favor PVP in this game in the PVP forum. If you think being a forum cop is going to stop players from expressing nonsupport, then your interpretation of the rules is way off.
    10-30-2010, 02:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    One of the main reasons I cant take PVP seriously in this game is literally being demonstrated right here in this thread. The inner 23 year experienced DM in me wont allow D&D, regardless of incarnation, to be turned into a mindless ePeen waving contest. Thats what they made WOW for.
    11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai
    Its not the PVP itself we dont like, its this "interaction" thing you speak of, which is better defined as a dingus waving contest.
    I'll confess, I got bored after 1 page. 2 pages of posts not read...but how many times can I be expected to read the same post, over...and over...and over.

    I think I have a good read on you at this point and understand _exactly_ why you are here. Again, there is no common ground. lol
    Last edited by Delt; 07-15-2011 at 06:32 PM.

  11. #51
    Community Member Ethiel's Avatar
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    Wow you show a consistency of his opinion and you act like it is a surprise that he add his here.

    Why you felt the need to point out what one person, who while vocal has literally no say as to development time, has espoused on a Forum dedicated to the game that he plays is mind boggling.


    If PVP were a money maker for turbine, it would get all the attention, as it isn't a money maker they don't.

    They can't sell 20% more pvp pots in the DDO store, when they figure that out, then they will start updating with a PVP focus.
    “Don't be buffaloed by experts and elites. Experts often possess more data than judgment. Elites can become so inbred that they produce haemophiliacs who bleed to death as soon as they are nicked by the real world.” General Colin Powell

  12. #52
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Delt, please contribute something besides arguments for the sake of arguing.

    PvP is a part of the game, and I am fine with where it is now, as are many others. It does not NEED anymore work at this time.

    Maybe later, when they have given us something to do besides TR endlessly after getting our epic loot situated, they can revisit it and make it a seperate instance with its own rules. However, in a game that was started as a purely pve game, I'd prefer time be spent working towards that end, not on something that was added as an afterthought to entice a small percentage of the community and/or give bored players a place to go besides another game.

    I can see, maybe in the distant future of the game, a time where PvP might mean something besides a casterfest. But now is not that time.

    Developers should not spend anymore time on it. At least not yet.

    After all, they have to fix crafting first :eyeroll:
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  13. #53
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I realize that this may be trivial... but I don't consider the "Pits" of taverns to be PvP as it really favors the Geared over Skilled. Now the Challenge arenas, Capture the Flag and Death Matches thats PvP. I think before people can argue the merits or detractions of something they should first come to agree on what the discussion is actually about.

    Based on "PvP" equaling the Tavern Pits -> I agree with the OP, leave this as it is. However, it would be nice if it was made a different instance then the bar, so that those that don't wish to participate or listen to the noise of a brawl do not have to be subjected.

    Based on "PvP" equaling the Challenge Arenas, Capture the Flag and Death Matches the only thing I would like to see is Leader Boards reset each month where people who care can go see how they are comparing to others.

    Those are my suggestions.

  14. #54
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalari View Post
    Hey now! ya can do whatever you want to Orien but you leave my Sarlona alone im treated like a princess on there I like it lol.....

    Push that nerfiness at Orien, I'll superglue that pic of the dwarven purple thong on the UNDERSIDE of your tavern table.
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  15. #55
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I realize that this may be trivial... but I don't consider the "Pits" of taverns to be PvP as it really favors the Geared over Skilled. Now the Challenge arenas, Capture the Flag and Death Matches thats PvP. I think before people can argue the merits or detractions of something they should first come to agree on what the discussion is actually about.

    Based on "PvP" equaling the Tavern Pits -> I agree with the OP, leave this as it is. However, it would be nice if it was made a different instance then the bar, so that those that don't wish to participate or listen to the noise of a brawl do not have to be subjected.

    Based on "PvP" equaling the Challenge Arenas, Capture the Flag and Death Matches the only thing I would like to see is Leader Boards reset each month where people who care can go see how they are comparing to others.

    Those are my suggestions.
    The battle arenas are interesting. But anyone with a persistent AoE wins.

    The main reason casters win in PvP is that spells are scaled for mob HP, not player HP.

    Whereas a main tank in ToD might cap out HP at about 8-900ish, most trash mobs in Amrath have easily over 1000. On normal.
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  16. #56
    Community Member Kalari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post
    Push that nerfiness at Orien, I'll superglue that pic of the dwarven purple thong on the UNDERSIDE of your tavern table.
    Ack uncle uncle you win lol
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  17. #57
    Community Member stainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    You reference the flimsy, unverified "dev resources should be used elsewhere" arguement, implying improvement to pvp automatically suggests less resources elsewhere in game.
    I had been thinking about this quote. The devs themselves have mentioned many times that resources are limited and many things get put aside so that they can focus on more pressing things. For example, the unintended stacking enhancement that the Barb PL feat provides to rage. So, yeah, development resources are finite.

    I accept your apology.

  18. #58
    Hall of Famer & Hero DoctorWhofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uhgungawa View Post
    PvP needs water balloons
    Actually, this would be a good idea. get items like the coal (how it is dropped and animation) Fill it with the stuff that Chesty or the taken spits out (without the acid) and have them in piles all over an arena. It would slow players down for like 5-10 seconds.

    Make it really fun and throw some random mobs in a pit and the water balloons would be filled with grease.
    Last edited by DoctorWhofan; 07-16-2011 at 12:51 PM.
    +The Goddess of Tempest's Spine+Merc's Only, THELANIS: List is here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...94#post2798094 LEGIONNAIRE /Salute to Rameses, He has RETURNED!

  19. #59
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I see HUGE amounts of comments coming from the lobster. In fact, there are quite a few players who will lose to what they feel is a bad PVP tactic, and turn it into a trash talking contest about how they other player sucks, is gimp, has to resort to BS in order to win etc etc.

    I wish I could say it was just a few players, because then we could say its a player issue, but its not. PVP having its own general chat is the better option. If Players want to holler at eachother about the tactic used to win they can do so all day without having to take it to a chat channel where 99% of the rest of the community who isnt directly involved in the conversation doesnt want to hear it or participate.
    giving pvp its own chat is a really bad idea. We'd be better off disabling the ability to do so and mute anyone who walks into tavern brawls until they walk out.

    I spend alot of time at the lobster, I almost never see any comments made in general chat, and maybe 1 out of 10 tells are actual trash talking while the other 9 are "heal me plz", "what shield are you using" and other random questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    Trolling is against the rules. As to my PLA comments, there is nothing illegal about public domain.

    Enjoy.
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  20. #60
    Community Member gloopygloop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    sorry man, this is a public forums - you can't force people to stop participating if there following the rules.
    I'm not speaking of any particular case here, but it has been my experience that people who are actually following the rules don't need to be asked to stop trolling and leave someone's thread along.

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