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  1. #61
    Hall of Famer & Hero DoctorWhofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    giving pvp its own chat is a really bad idea. We'd be better off disabling the ability to do so and mute anyone who walks into tavern brawls until they walk out.

    I spend alot of time at the lobster, I almost never see any comments made in general chat, and maybe 1 out of 10 tells are actual trash talking while the other 9 are "heal me plz", "what shield are you using" and other random questions.



    argueing or disagreeing isn't trolling, only personal attacks are man.
    Funny, I see it alot. I guess it depends when you are on.
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  2. #62
    Community Member gloopygloop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    giving pvp its own chat is a really bad idea. We'd be better off disabling the ability to do so and mute anyone who walks into tavern brawls until they walk out.

    I spend alot of time at the lobster, I almost never see any comments made in general chat, and maybe 1 out of 10 tells are actual trash talking while the other 9 are "heal me plz", "what shield are you using" and other random questions.
    I also see a lot of "guys where are you?" and an occasional ".g good lord, this party sucks."

  3. #63
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    I want grease enabled personally... Among other things...
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  4. #64
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    giving pvp its own chat is a really bad idea. We'd be better off disabling the ability to do so and mute anyone who walks into tavern brawls until they walk out.

    I spend alot of time at the lobster, I almost never see any comments made in general chat, and maybe 1 out of 10 tells are actual trash talking while the other 9 are "heal me plz", "what shield are you using" and other random questions.



    argueing or disagreeing isn't trolling, only personal attacks are man.
    I get asked about my gear a lot on my melee. People don't get that I don't have to swing to kill them.


    Dunno if you were reading, but he got pretty personal.
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  5. #65
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    All I have to say is

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorWhofan View Post
    Actually, not signed.


    Why?

    I want them to make the taverns that have PvP in it their own instances, therefore I don't have to hear it unless I go into said tavern.

    THEN I'll sign.

    This right here is a great solution. Take it off general chat so unless you are where PvP is, you dont have to hear anything about it. I think that solution alone would take most of the anger/hate directed toward PvP away. Not hearing "a lvl 20 beating a lvl 5, he must feel so great" all the time would be such a godsend in this game. It really really would
    Last edited by rocky0; 07-16-2011 at 01:16 PM.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorWhofan View Post
    Funny, I see it alot. I guess it depends when you are on.
    I thought leave PvP alone and move PvP to it's own chat channel were good suggestions.

    /signed on both
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  8. #68
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    I thought leave PvP alone and move PvP to it's own chat channel were good suggestions.

    /signed on both
    Maybe we need a petition...
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  9. #69
    Community Member protokon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloopygloop View Post
    I also see a lot of "guys where are you?" and an occasional ".g good lord, this party sucks."
    which is exactly my point. Do those seem like comments flooding from lobster pvp? No....

    and that's exactly what I was trying to point out. it has nothing to do with people flaming eachother in the lobster. And I am active virtually all times of the day (not every day obviously) from 8 in the morning up until 5 in the morning, depending on my schedule. I just don't see what people are complaining about.

    And start a petition? of what, how many forumites like pvp versus how many forumites dislike it? that doesn't really do any good...
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  10. #70
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protokon View Post
    which is exactly my point. Do those seem like comments flooding from lobster pvp? No....

    and that's exactly what I was trying to point out. it has nothing to do with people flaming eachother in the lobster. And I am active virtually all times of the day (not every day obviously) from 8 in the morning up until 5 in the morning, depending on my schedule. I just don't see what people are complaining about.

    And start a petition? of what, how many forumites like pvp versus how many forumites dislike it? that doesn't really do any good...
    I was thinking more of a petition to get PvP sectioned off, either by chat channels, or by instancing.
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  11. #71
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    The purpose of PvP is to defeat another player. Your goal is to make another player lose, so that you can win. Losing isnt fun. This promotes contention in the playerbase rather than co-operation. I have played dozens of mmos, and most are pvp based. DDO is not and it is the only one I will play anymore because the playerbase is and entirely different sort of people (for the most part) than all those pvp mmos. This is one of a few reasons that I agree that pvp should be left alone (and sent to it's own chat channel) but not removed. I PvP were to be made a major part of ddo the classes would have to become balanced in a different way than they do for pve. This would directly effect the majority of gameplay, and in my opinion make many classes I enjoy playing into something I would no longer enjoy playing. As it stands PvP provides a minor distraction, and is a place to test numbers and values of spells and ablities you have in a controlled setting.

    Also I only got to page 2 before I got tired of reading the same thing that goes on in almost every pvp thread, so sorry if my 2 cents have already been said.
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  12. #72
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    The purpose of PvP is to defeat another player. Your goal is to make another player lose, so that you can win. Losing isnt fun. This promotes contention in the playerbase rather than co-operation. I have played dozens of mmos, and most are pvp based. DDO is not and it is the only one I will play anymore because the playerbase is and entirely different sort of people (for the most part) than all those pvp mmos. This is one of a few reasons that I agree that pvp should be left alone (and sent to it's own chat channel) but not removed. I PvP were to be made a major part of ddo the classes would have to become balanced in a different way than they do for pve. This would directly effect the majority of gameplay, and in my opinion make many classes I enjoy playing into something I would no longer enjoy playing. As it stands PvP provides a minor distraction, and is a place to test numbers and values of spells and ablities you have in a controlled setting.

    Also I only got to page 2 before I got tired of reading the same thing that goes on in almost every pvp thread, so sorry if my 2 cents have already been said.
    Everything past page 2 is a flamewar. You didn't miss much.
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  13. #73
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok.cry View Post
    The purpose of PvP is to defeat another player. Your goal is to make another player lose, so that you can win. Losing isnt fun. This promotes contention in the playerbase rather than co-operation. I have played dozens of mmos, and most are pvp based. DDO is not and it is the only one I will play anymore because the playerbase is and entirely different sort of people (for the most part) than all those pvp mmos.
    You can "lose" to AI too, though I guess that tends to be easier to swallow than losing to a fellow player...for some people. I've played many games, some "pve" some "pvp". The best example in recent years WoW, since (at the time) it seperated it's servers. I guess AoC does that too.

    Anyway, there were no difference of the player base, between PvE and PvP -- except for the fact that "bragging" either took the form of fellow players or quests/raids.

    So yes, instead of "I solo'd {insert Epic}" we'd have more "I pwn'd {insert pvp/team}". Beyond that change, no I don't expect a difference.

    This is one of a few reasons that I agree that pvp should be left alone (and sent to it's own chat channel) but not removed. I PvP were to be made a major part of ddo the classes would have to become balanced in a different way than they do for pve. This would directly effect the majority of gameplay, and in my opinion make many classes I enjoy playing into something I would no longer enjoy playing. As it stands PvP provides a minor distraction, and is a place to test numbers and values of spells and ablities you have in a controlled setting.

    Also I only got to page 2 before I got tired of reading the same thing that goes on in almost every pvp thread, so sorry if my 2 cents have already been said.
    This is another common excuse from the anti-pvp crowd that has no merit. There are multiple ways to balance rules/effects differently for pvp that would have no effect on pve. (ie: PvM, adjusting global effects in the pvp zones, etc). The only obstacle is dev effort.

  14. #74
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    You can "lose" to AI too, though I guess that tends to be easier to swallow than losing to a fellow player...for some people. I've played many games, some "pve" some "pvp". The best example in recent years WoW, since (at the time) it seperated it's servers. I guess AoC does that too.

    Anyway, there were no difference of the player base, between PvE and PvP -- except for the fact that "bragging" either took the form of fellow players or quests/raids.

    So yes, instead of "I solo'd {insert Epic}" we'd have more "I pwn'd {insert pvp/team}". Beyond that change, no I don't expect a difference.



    This is another common excuse from the anti-pvp crowd that has no merit. There are multiple ways to balance rules/effects differently for pvp that would have no effect on pve. (ie: PvM, adjusting global effects in the pvp zones, etc). The only obstacle is dev effort.
    It's a bit more than just "dev effort".

    Games that have excellent PvP (wow, gw, rift, aoc) were built around having that option from the beginning, whereas in ddo, it was added as more of an afterthought to keep certain players around. It's less about dev attention, and more about them having to redesign and recode more than a few elements.

    Also, I personally would rather see dev attention focused on the endgame for a little while. After all, Amrath was released how long ago now?
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  15. #75
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    If the "rules" for pvp are going to be different from normal play, then it might as well be a different game. I personally think they should do a PvP dnd game based on 4.0, as it seems more suited the pvp.

    Also, you have stated that certain arguments are invalid. Please explain what invalidates them. Most of this thread is opinion, and opinion can't really be invalid.

    As for the playbase being different, no in the same game the pvp and pve playerbase in not that different, but in a game that has a smaller pvp focused base the community is very different. The waving of ePeens is also differnet the way I see it: One is basing all his time in the game to give other players a bad time, while the other is basing his time in the game in making himself soo good he can help 5-11 other people do better in a quest than they otherwise might have. Its a difference of swinging your epeen in my face and swinging it at the monster beating on me.
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  16. #76
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    right now, we need other things before PvP should be looked at.

    Also, the vast majority of PvP suggestions focus on either changing/nerfing things in the name of balance, or are quite labor intensive.

    Crafting is a joke. I agree. That's why I stopped when I did.

    PvP, by the same token, is also a joke the way it is. Hence, I treat it as one usually.

    Please make a suggestion instead of poking holes in others' comments.

    Agreeing on something someone else suggested, without expanding upon it, is just fluff.
    Last edited by IWIronheart; 07-16-2011 at 06:02 PM.
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  17. #77
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    Yes, we can have both. But right now, we need other things before PvP should be looked at.

    Also, the vast majority of PvP suggestions focus on either changing/nerfing things in the name of balance, or are quite labor intensive.

    Crafting is a joke. I agree. That's why I stopped when I did.

    PvP, by the same token, is also a joke the way it is. Hence, I treat it as one usually.

    Please make a suggestion instead of poking holes in others' comments.

    Agreeing on something someone else suggested, without expanding upon it, is just fluff.
    I have made suggestions, but those aside, I am not going to uselessly direct Turbine beyond the fact that I want improvements (bugs aside). It's their software, their dev environment and their business plan on profit. None of which I am familiar with. I have no idea how they will approach it, I only hope that they do. Period.

    I am content with providing feedback if anything ever comes about, occasionally discussing distant possibilities for fun (ie: PvM) and poking holes in the arguments of people whom show zero interest in the existing pvp, yet somehow compose the majority of the threads in the pvp forum.

    Ya.
    Last edited by Delt; 07-16-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  18. #78
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    I have made suggestions, but those aside, I am not going to uselessly direct Turbine beyond the fact that I want improvements (bugs aside). It's their software, their dev environment and their business plan on profit. None of which I am familiar with. I have no idea how they will approach it, I only hope that they do. Period.

    I am content with providing feedback if anything ever comes about, occasionally discussing distant possibilities for fun (ie: PvM) and poking holes in the arguments of people whom show zero interest in the existing pvp, yet somehow compose the majority of the threads in the pvp forum.

    Ya.
    I PvP. On more than one game.

    I enjoy this game and how it currently functions (apart from pretty lame ideas) and don't want to see it go up in flames over something like PvP. You saw what they did to crafting, after waiting 5+ years to release. Could you imagine what they might do with PvP?
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  19. #79
    Community Member Delt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    I PvP. On more than one game.

    I enjoy this game and how it currently functions (apart from pretty lame ideas) and don't want to see it go up in flames over something like PvP. You saw what they did to crafting, after waiting 5+ years to release. Could you imagine what they might do with PvP?
    It's in the game. It has been for years. I am all for improvement. It's due.

    I'm not going to find common ground with you on the basis of a "what-if the devs do a ****-poor job". Maybe crafting, but neither of us are posting in a crafting thread. So there's not much reason for a continued back and forth. We disagree and want different things. The difference is I'm not out to stifle the things YOU want.
    Last edited by Delt; 07-16-2011 at 03:27 PM.

  20. #80
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delt View Post
    It's in the game. It has been for years. I am all for improvement. It's due.

    I'm not going to find common ground with you on the basis of a "what-if the devs do a ****-poor job". Maybe crafting, but neither of us are posting in a crafting thread. So there's not much reason for a continued back and forth. We disagree and want different things. The difference is I'm not out to stifle the things YOU want.
    If I change the OP to include "Not Right Now", would you be ok with it?
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