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  1. #1
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Default Bard - Critical feedback ....

    Dwarf!
    6th man - full WC with decent healing option / THF with greaxe.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
    (18 Bard \ 2 Favored Soul) 
    Hit Points: 316
    Spell Points: 849 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 14
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    24
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         17                    20
    Intelligence         10                    12
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             12                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    20
    Bluff                 1                     3
    Concentration         7                    28
    Diplomacy             1                     3
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                     3
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                  2                    23
    Intimidate            1                     7
    Jump                  4                    18
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently         3                    23
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               5                    27
    Repair                0                     1
    Search                0                     3
    Spot                 -1                     0
    Swim                  4                     7
    Tumble                0                     1
    Use Magic Device      5                    26
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    
    
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Silver Flame
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
    
    
    Level 3 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    Enhancement: Greataxe Training
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Improved Perform I
    Last edited by NovaNZ; 06-25-2011 at 04:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  2. #2
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm sorry.. why the two Favored Soul?

  3. #3
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    TheDearLeader.

    I am open to suggestions.

    FvS provides slight bit more SP for 1 level up, +1 saves across the board, a 1st lvl spell.

    Please advise if I have more effective options.
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  4. #4
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Well, there are the multiple builds on the forums that utilize 16/2/2. But Favored Soul doesn't give you the Evasion, or Sneak Attack Damage, or improved skillset that such a breakdown would give you.

    Spell Points... I dunno. Spell points just aren't that great. If you run out, there are multiple ways *other* than Pots to recover them. Having a high number the minute you walk in a quest isn't necessarily the end-all-be-all.

    If you're looking to still have at least 18 levels of Bard, I'd suggest just staying pure.

    Check this thread out - or at least the OP. I basically go over the benefits of staying pure, rather than multiclassing "just for the SP".

  5. #5
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Tx for your response. I will check out the link you provided.

    Re SP - just banged same character into planner but going pure bard - results in loss of base 207 SP. As pure bard this would have 642 SP base. That approx 1/4 total loss SP and seeing as competent healing is a priority for this character - SP has some bearing on FvS splash.

    I agree that SP replacement items are available.

    I have previously done a Bard 16/2/2 (Genghis Khan build).

    Tx again.
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  6. #6
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaNZ View Post
    Tx for your response. I will check out the link you provided.

    Re SP - just banged same character into planner but going pure bard - results in loss of base 207 SP. As pure bard this would have 642 SP base. That approx 1/4 total loss SP and seeing as competent healing is a priority for this character - SP has some bearing on FvS splash.

    I agree that SP replacement items are available.

    I have previously done a Bard 16/2/2 (Genghis Khan build).

    Tx again.
    No problem. And yeah, the link goes over what you're gaining/losing by multiclassing for SP purposes.

    Remember that gear makes a big difference, as well - my Spellsinger is somewhere just above 1600 SP, and I'm sure the character planner wouldn't accurately represent that.

    Edit : Other than that, the feats/stats/skills look good, but the enhancements.. meh. Song Magic IV is expensive - I wouldn't take it, or really any past Song Magic I.

    Another thought I had - if you took two Fighter levels instead of FvS, you'd have a higher BAB, slightly higher hit points, and two combat feats. You could take Power Attack and WF:Slash with those feats, and with the two feat slots you freed up, take Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness, and net... 230 SP I think? I think it would be about the same both ways, but Fighter may benefit you more. Just tossing ideas out there though. Oh - also, it would unlock Fighter Strength I and Haste Boost I.
    Last edited by TheDearLeader; 06-25-2011 at 04:00 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member maha0201's Avatar
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    What is the point of this build ?

    I have one pure bard ss as healer, and one 16brd/2bbn/2ftr wf as dps...

    Now if you want to go self healing and dps id suggest human/he SS 2wf 16brd/2rog/2ftr. If you plan to go dps mode with some self healing ho/wf/dorf/human 16brd/2bbn/2ftr

    Most of bard self healing is via umd - scrolls. If you dont have co-op and torc youre sp regain is slow, SS helps that a bit...
    Thelanis -> D 20bbn (TR 1) | H 11rgr/7mnk/2ftr+2 (TR 1) | K 20bbn+3 (TR 3) | K 15pal/3mnk/2ftr (TR 1) | M 20+1 fvs (TR 2) | S 8mnk/12pal (TR 2)
    Gimped -> B 20wiz | Work in progress -> B (TR 1) 6rgr/6bbn/1rog | B (TR2) 14fs I drop BB; I don't HJEEEAL (:

  8. #8
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Ok so bard18/fgt2

    Pros:
    +1 BAB
    +2 STR
    +2 CHA (edited)
    4 HP
    Fgt Haste boost +15% (edited)

    Cons:
    -36 SP (edited)
    -2 reflex save
    -2 will save
    slightly less effective heals (-10%; -3% crit)
    slightly less songs with lessduration (edited)
    Last edited by NovaNZ; 06-25-2011 at 05:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  9. #9
    Community Member TheDearLeader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NovaNZ View Post
    Ok so bard18/fgt2

    Pros:
    +1 BAB
    +2 STR
    4 HP

    Cons:
    -70 SP
    -2 reflex save
    -2 will save
    -2 CHA
    slightly less effective heals (-10%)
    Compared to pure 20 Bard or 18/2FVS?

    If it's the second option, it would be +1 Str/-0 Cha. Fighter Strength I is one point of Strength, and although you'll lose out on FvS Charisma I, you can replace it.. with Bard Charisma I. They're both the same AP cost, but taking FvS Charisma locks out Bard Charisma (can only have on at a time).

    Also not seeing how the heals would be less effective. I didn't see any FvS related enhancement for boosting healing, but I may have overlooked it.

  10. #10
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Default Tx TheDearLeader

    Hi mate

    Please refer my edited post above your last.

    Overall - I believe going bard 18/Fgt 2 is more worthwhile. Tx for your patience and valuable feedback. Appreciated.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
    (2 Fighter \ 18 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 320
    Spell Points: 813 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 14
    Reflex: 11
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             18                 25                   26
    Dexterity             8                 10                   10
    Constitution         17                 19                   20
    Intelligence          8                 10                   10
    Wisdom                8                 10                   10
    Charisma             13                 15                   18
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               3                 22                   26
    Bluff                 1                  4                    4
    Concentration         7                 27                   27
    Diplomacy             1                  7                    7
    Disable Device       n/a                n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                1                  4                    4
    Heal                 -1                  0                    0
    Hide                 -1                  0                    0
    Intimidate            1                  4                    8
    Jump                  8                 30                   30
    Listen               -1                  0                    0
    Move Silently        -1                  0                    0
    Open Lock            n/a                n/a                   n/a
    Perform               5                 26                   26
    Repair               -1                  0                    0
    Search               -1                  0                    2
    Spot                 -1                  0                    0
    Swim                  4                  8                    8
    Tumble               n/a                 1                    1
    Use Magic Device      5                 26                   29
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Perform (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
    Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
    Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
    Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
    Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+2)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+2)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Mass Suggestion
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Last edited by NovaNZ; 06-25-2011 at 06:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

  11. #11
    Community Member NovaNZ's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi Maha0201

    The point of this build is to have a 6th man, full warchanter, reasonable 2nd line healer, able to contribute to DPS with big axe, make the tea for the party leader, darn the tears in the arcanes robes etc etc.

    Most special bout this character is flexibility to have fun no matter the group or quest.

    PS - Don't worry - nothing but a deluded Dwarf freak muttering here ......
    Quote Originally Posted by DawnofEntropy View Post
    Who wouldn't want to see Flizik the dwarf jamming to 'Devil went down to georgia' and smoking a pipe ...

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