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  1. #1
    Community Member Evex's Avatar
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    May 2010
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    Default Acrobatic Assasin

    The first thing I wanted to say is that I know the title is misleading. I'm also aware that you can't have both the Acrobat and Assassin prestige feats at the same time. The reason this build is called the Acrobatic Assassin is for the reason it tries to mimic the Thief Acrobat, while using twin weapon fighting and the assassin line of enhancements. I also know its hard to exactly duplicate the Thief acrobat on an assassin due to the bonus the acrobat prestige line gives.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 222
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 19
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 14                   14
    Dexterity            16                 21                   24
    Constitution         14                 14                   14
    Intelligence         16                 16                   18
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             10                 10                   10
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               7                 30                   32
    Bluff                 4                 23                   29
    Concentration         2                  2                    2
    Diplomacy             0                  0                    0
    Disable Device        7                 27                   27
    Haggle                0                  0                    0
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  7                 30                   40
    Intimidate            0                  0                    0
    Jump                  6                 25                   25
    Listen               -1                 -1                    1
    Move Silently         7                 30                   40
    Open Lock             7                 30                   30
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                  4                    4
    Search                7                 27                   29
    Spot                  3                 22                   24
    Swim                  2                  2                    2
    Tumble                7                 30                   32
    Use Magic Device      4                 23                   23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
    Enhancement: Improved Balance I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Improved Balance II
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Enhancement: Improved Hide III
    Enhancement: Improved Hide IV
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently III
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I

  2. #2
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Default

    so... basically... it's a dex-based assassin that blows a lot of AP on needlessly boosting skills that are already at levels beyond what is needed then?

    well, you'll still be good DPS, i suppose. not amazing, and i can't help but feel there are more effective ways to spend your AP, but it doesn't look like it will be unplayable or anything like that.

    personally though, i would divert some of your points of jump towards diplomacy so you can more easily hit quest skill requirements when you use the right gear. but that's just me.

  3. #3
    Community Member Evex's Avatar
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    May 2010
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    Default

    Well yes, looking at the paths from the compendium and the thread Revisiting paths: Builds for new players by tihocan. A rogue in general point of view of the game is dex based. People on the forum, from what I've read from other rogue builds, will suggest that you go strength based rouge for the simple reason "DPS is king". I have a natural tendency when it comes to characters to question things that seem to be out of place to me. For instance why should a drow take over sized two weapon fighting ? Is it just because the khopesh is the "king" of the dps weapons, or is there some other reason for its use. I've done test with tumble on my current character, who is currently level 4 with a tumble of 11. Basically its not a skill for avoiding damage from enemy attacks, but also reduces the level of damage taking from falling.

    At 11 tumble I jumped from the area in storm reach that overlooks the trainers in the harbor, and took 48 damage when I hit the ground. The area is where those ramps bring you just before the founders fountain. Character drank a potion of tumble bringing skill up to 21, resulting in only taking 38 damage. I figure that a tumble of 40 will limit the fall damage to 18. I've seen parts of the in game content where a character normally has to take a jump of faith. Granted we have feather fall items for that, but what if the drop is so long the feather fall timer runs out ? Your left plummeting to the ground with hopes a tumble score of 1 will save you, or water is at the bottom of that drop.

    The only quest I know that requires diplomacy is in the quest from nash braza in the cerulean hills. I'm not exactly sure what other quest would require the diplomacy skill. I figure bluff is more useful to a rogue for turning away aggro then diplomacy is. Then again a rogue shouldn't be attracting aggro. I'm of the mindset to build the class around the race, and not build the race around the class.

  4. #4
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Default

    - DPS is king, yes, and also pretty much every other aspect of being a rogue comes without investing in it at all. trap skills? you can do just about any trap in the game (and all of the important ones) with 6 int if you have the gear for it... though admittedly, not all (especially starting rogues) will have the gear for it. evasion? your reflex save will already be very good, without anything more than the basic investment for TWF purposes. obviously, more of those things doesn't hurt (and who doesn't like more skill points?), but they should not be your main focus, because if you focus mostly on traps and evasion, you're going to be very upset the next time you meet a wiz 18/rogue 2, or an exploiter build, who brings all the traps and evasion while doing so much more at the same time.

    this is not to say that dex-based rogues are unviable, or that trap-based rogues are unviable, it's simply saying, you've specialised in an area that requires no significant specialisation (unless you're going for end-game AC, in which case... good luck). as i said, you'll still deal good damage... just not as much as you could.

    - a drow should be taking oversized two-weapon fighting because a RAPIER is an oversized weapon for two-weapon fighting. if they're taking khopesh (which is not really needed on a drow rogue, but whatever) they won't have the feat for it. and in fact, regardless of that, if they're a dex-based rogue they won't be taking either because they need weapon finesse.

    - tumble is not a bad skill. it lets you fall faster and not get hurt. that said, if your feather fall timer runs out on you, it's time to upgrade gear; permanent feather fall items are not that rare or expensive.

    - you've already got bluff, and i didn't suggest you drop it. i suggested that +25 unbuffed ungeared jump was beyond what anyone needs, and that some of that could go to diplomacy. this is useful in such quests as epic VoN 1, Epic partycrashers, and probably a few others i can't think of at the moment. an alternate option would be to max intimidate so that you can pull stuff off of allies when it's important (for example, one person in shroud part 2 has aggro on every single lieutenant because they don't know when to not use manyshot + IPS) and then dump it 15 seconds later with diplomacy, but it doesn't look like this build has the skill points to invest in all three (it *is* a pretty nifty possibility though). bluff is great for reducing aggro whether you have max ranks or not, on a side note. the main question is would you rather be able to single-pull monsters and sneak attack while having aggro (ie bluff) or be able to lose aggro completely (diplomacy). in either case, having *some* ranks to be able to hit certain quest optionals or other requirements is a very nice advantage to have.

  5. #5
    Community Member Evex's Avatar
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    Default

    I appreciate you actually taken the time to explain things Jaid314. I can divert ten points from jump leaving it at 15 and put ten points into diplomacy, which gives diplomacy a score of 10. If I can afford an intelligence +2 tome that would give me one more point of int at level eight on ward which I could then put into diplomacy. With the extra point diplomacy would be maxed, if I started at lv 1 and stopped at level 7. The tome would then give the extra point to continue with diplomacy, while putting the fifteen points in jump. I could also take points out of balance and tumble and put them into intimidate, but the intimidate score wouldn't be very high. Reducing balance to 17 and tumble to 15 would give me an intimidate score of 22. I'm not exactly sure if I need those two skills that high though.

    Below is a new build that takes into account everything you said, and a few of my own adjustments. Though in order to get the twin weapon fighting line I needed to include a plus one tome, but any other tomes are not included. I might raise diplomacy start skill to 4 and start on jump at lv 7. In intimidate can wait I assume till lv. 9 to start.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 222
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             14                 19                   19
    Dexterity            16                 17                   20
    Constitution         14                 14                   14
    Intelligence         16                 16                   18
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma             10                 10                   10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               7                 18                   18
    Bluff                 4                 23                   31
    Concentration         2                  2                    2
    Diplomacy             0                 10                   12
    Disable Device        7                 27                   27
    Haggle                0                  0                    0
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  7                 28                   38
    Intimidate            0                 22                   22
    Jump                  6                 17                   17
    Listen               -1                 -1                    1
    Move Silently         7                 27                   37
    Open Lock             7                 28                   28
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                  4                    4
    Search                7                 27                   29
    Spot                  3                 22                   24
    Swim                  2                  4                    4
    Tumble                7                 17                   17
    Use Magic Device      4                 23                   23
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Improved Hide III
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently III
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack II
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
    Enhancement: Improved Bluff I
    Enhancement: Improved Diplomacy I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide IV
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Improved Bluff II
    Enhancement: Improved Diplomacy II

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