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  1. #1
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    Default Feats for STR-based rogue

    Hey. I made a STR-based Dwarf Rogue. On lvl 1 I chose Toughness and on lvl 3 I'll choose EWP: Dwarven Axes. I assume I also need Power Attack and IC: Slashing. My question is: which other feats are a must?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    TWF, ITWF, GTWF are other musts. Hopefully you can get the 17 DEX for it; only starting stat, plus tomes and levelups count.

    But I have to ask: Are you sure about Dwarven Axes? Why not Khopesh? If you're going to spend the feat, why not spend it on something that's actually better than the Rapier you get for free? Even with the Dwarf enhancements, Khopesh is better overall DPS.

  3. #3
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    It's a flavor thing And I kinda forgot about the twf line.
    Also, which feat do you guys recommand taking on lvl 10? The rogue bonus ones.

  4. #4
    Community Member Truga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojojakes View Post
    It's a flavor thing And I kinda forgot about the twf line.
    Also, which feat do you guys recommand taking on lvl 10? The rogue bonus ones.
    Improved evasion, opportunist. The rest are up to you, but these two really make a ton of difference in my opinion and should be taken first. If you need more dps, or improved evasion first is up to you, but I personally prefer evasion. Lots of balls of fire (and other things) flying about, and rogue only has d6 HD. Plus, running through elite traps to disarm them hurts much less with it. :P

  5. #5
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    Thanks

    Last question: I just changed my toughness feat that I chose on my first lvl to the first TWF-feat. But when shall I take toughness now? Should I take the other TWF feats first, or should I take toughness first?

  6. #6
    Community Member parowan's Avatar
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    Yes, hopefully you have Dex15 so a +2 tome will get you the full TWF feat chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    But I have to ask: Are you sure about Dwarven Axes? Why not Khopesh? If you're going to spend the feat, why not spend it on something that's actually better than the Rapier you get for free? Even with the Dwarf enhancements, Khopesh is better overall DPS.
    Meh, if you're really trying to optimize, maybe. But the axes are plenty adequate and I like the concept in terms of flavor. Should be fun. More important than the hit on your top-end dps is the way the lower crit threat range will make your burst, stat-dmg weapons and especially a Rad2 less effective. To a degree, the choice you're making here would lead you away from the stealthy back-stabbing style of rogue and more toward a stand em up and knock up down straight up melee. That being the case, you might consider multi-classing. Fighter levels for feats, or barb levels for power.

    For rogue special abilities I take improved evasion first, then opportunist. Improved evasion is always useful. The benefits of opportunist are more important in later levels where mobs don't die as quick and are more likely to have fort.

  7. #7
    Community Member parowan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojojakes View Post
    Last question: I just changed my toughness feat that I chose on my first lvl to the first TWF-feat. But when shall I take toughness now? Should I take the other TWF feats first, or should I take toughness first?
    Take toughness at lvl3. Many take it later, but I prefer earlier (but not lvl1). My reasoning is that the extra hp (especially when you get racial toughness enhancements) makes a bigger difference proportionally at early lvls than at later. An extra 10hp from a toughness enhancement at lvl3 makes a bigger difference than it will at lvl12.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by parowan View Post
    That being the case, you might consider multi-classing. Fighter levels for feats, or barb levels for power.
    I was told this was a bad idea, because the rogue capstone enhancement is super-awesome.

  9. #9
    Community Member ~SyZoRe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    TWF, ITWF, GTWF are other musts.
    add Over-sized TWF to the Musts-have-feats list
    ~ P h o e n i x - K n i g h t s ~
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  10. #10
    Community Member Bodic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojojakes View Post
    Thanks

    Last question: I just changed my toughness feat that I chose on my first lvl to the first TWF-feat. But when shall I take toughness now? Should I take the other TWF feats first, or should I take toughness first?
    that was a mistake thoughness first get it out of the way take your Daxe feat @3rd Use a dang shield until you can get ITWF PA is your last Feat IC:S is yoru lvl12 feat

    Toughness, Daxe, Twf, Itwf, Ic:s, Gtwf, Pa you can always drop the DA feat by taking 1 lvl of Ftr and getting 2 feats OTWF and a 2 toughness you do lose +4d6SA and +2Int bonus , but gain 2 feats and martial weapons(includes Daxe for dwarf) that way you can also use scimmys and kukri's w/o penalty

  11. #11
    Community Member parowan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyZoRe View Post
    add Over-sized TWF to the Musts-have-feats list
    I don't know what you'd drop to make room for this. I think it better to just turn off PA if you have trouble hitting a particular mob. Or keep a good off-hand light weapon ready to switch to. Or keep an improved destruction weapon available.

  12. #12
    Community Member parowan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojojakes View Post
    I was told this was a bad idea, because the rogue capstone enhancement is super-awesome.
    The assassin capstone IS super awesome. But for the approach your build lends itself to, a splash of ftr or barb can be just as viable.

  13. #13
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    Default Feats in order...

    Use rapiers/shortswords until you take WP: Dwarven Axes. Once your attack bonus is high enough that you rarely miss, you can switch OTWF out for Power Attack. Once you take WP: Dwarven Axe, swap out IC: Piercing for IC: Slashing. Of the rogue bonus feats, Opportunist/Imp Evasion are absolute must-haves, then next best two in my opinion are Crippling Strike/Slippery Mind, but I make an effort to increase my will save as best I can in order to make Slippery Mind somewhat beneficial. If you don't care about will saves, then go with Skill Mastery. Defensive Roll is a waste, you shouldn't be getting hit in the first place, and nothing should live long enough to hit you anyways.

    1: TWF
    3: OTWF (Swap to PA when Attack Bonus is high enough)
    6: Toughness
    9: ITWF
    10: Opportunist/Imp Evasion
    12: IC: Piercing (Swap to IC: Slashing when you take WP: Dwarven Axe)
    13: Opportunist/Imp Evasion
    15: GTWF
    16: Crippling Strike/Slippery Mind
    18: WP: Dwarven Axe
    19: Crippling Strike/Slippery Mind

    Good luck. And go Assassin, you won't regret it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojojakes View Post
    I was told this was a bad idea, because the rogue capstone enhancement is super-awesome.
    It's a bad idea to splash fighter, because you don't gain enough to make up for the loss of the capstone. However, you might consider splashing 2 levels of ranger.

    What you lose:
    - 5d6 sneak attack damage (1d6 from Rogue level 19, 4d6 from the capstone)
    - +2 INT (from capstone)
    - 1 Rogue special ability, but you'll still get the good ones (Imp Evasion and Opportunist, plus 1 more)
    - Some skill points

    What you gain:
    - 3 feats: TWF, Rapid Shot and Bow Strength
    - 1 Favored Enemy and level 1 Favored Damage enhancement (FE:Undead can make a big difference at low levels, or you can take FE:Evil Outsider for endgame)
    - Level 1 Sprint boost (not to be underestimated)
    - +3 Fortitude, +2 Reflex
    - No UMD check on Cure Mod/Serious wands
    - +4 HP (fairly negligible, but still)
    - Proficiency with all martial weapons, in your case this means Dwarven Axes


    In short, you get 2 good feats (TWF and DA prof) and some versatility/utility in exchange for a reduction in DPS.

  15. #15
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyZoRe View Post
    add Over-sized TWF to the Musts-have-feats list
    OP won't have room for OTWF on a pure dwarf rogue: TWF x3, Toughness, DAxe prof., PA, IC Slash. They do have the option of swapping DAxe for OTWF once their UMD is high enough for Master's Touch scrolls, though.

    BTW, OP, make sure you have a plan for how you're gonna hit base DEX 17 for ITWF & GTWF.
    Revisiting the Classics: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard
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  16. #16
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    I have 16 base dex and I'll get a +1 tome. I don't have much money on this server, that's why I didn't go for 15 base with a +2 tome.

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