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  1. #1
    Community Member Jiirix's Avatar
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    Default Pimp my Warchanter 16brd/2rog/2ftr

    Hello, with the charslots on discount I can start an other bard. I have an spellsinger I like and so this one should be a bard with heavy melee focus. Any ideas how to push him further? I would like to keep the 16 levels of bard because iresistable dance is such a nice spell. But for a good improvement I could ditch 2 more, 14 is the minimum.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 320
    Spell Points: 500 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 13
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            15                    18
    Constitution         16                    20
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             12                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               6                    24
    Concentration         5                    28
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                5                    26
    Hide                  5                     7
    Jump                  7                    16
    Move Silently         6                     8
    Open Lock             6                    16
    Perform               n/a                  26
    Tumble                3                     5
    Use Magic Device      5                    26
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
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  2. #2
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    I am just wondering, why the 2 levels of fighter and not go with ranger to get the free TWF feat (and extra skill points)?

    Not to mention the included: Many Shot and Bow Strength, which would make using a bow from time to time a viable thing to do.

  3. #3
    Community Member maha0201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    I am just wondering, why the 2 levels of fighter and not go with ranger to get the free TWF feat (and extra skill points)?

    Not to mention the included: Many Shot and Bow Strength, which would make using a bow from time to time a viable thing to do.
    many shot is at 6th rgr lvl, and fighter get 2 feats for 2 lvls... so he would get 2wf and bow STR from 2 rgr, and 2wf and otwf or any combat feat from 2 ftr...

    As for the build im not big fan of warchanter 2wf with rog splashes you need to go out of rage to do traps, i preffer 2 bbn over 2 rog. I started mine WC with 12 cha and it is too much you could easy go with 10, eaven 8 is ok if you dont mind ship buffs so you could be able to use spells
    Thelanis -> D 20bbn (TR 1) | H 11rgr/7mnk/2ftr+2 (TR 1) | K 20bbn+3 (TR 3) | K 15pal/3mnk/2ftr (TR 1) | M 20+1 fvs (TR 2) | S 8mnk/12pal (TR 2)
    Gimped -> B 20wiz | Work in progress -> B (TR 1) 6rgr/6bbn/1rog | B (TR2) 14fs I drop BB; I don't HJEEEAL (:

  4. #4
    Community Member Jiirix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maha0201 View Post
    many shot is at 6th rgr lvl, and fighter get 2 feats for 2 lvls... so he would get 2wf and bow STR from 2 rgr, and 2wf and otwf or any combat feat from 2 ftr...

    As for the build im not big fan of warchanter 2wf with rog splashes you need to go out of rage to do traps, i preffer 2 bbn over 2 rog. I started mine WC with 12 cha and it is too much you could easy go with 10, eaven 8 is ok if you dont mind ship buffs so you could be able to use spells
    The higher cha is for UMD. 21skill + 6cha + 2boost + 3 item + 6 shroud item = 38 UMD = heal scrolls.
    I planned to take rogue for Evasion, locks and skillpoints mainly. Dont want to do traps. Have an other char for that. But i will have a look at those barb levels. Sure I'll find some raging bard builds here.

    Edit: I can see why you perfer barb on your warchanter, with an esos I would THF too But I have "only" a good collection of daxes.
    Last edited by Jiirix; 06-20-2011 at 07:08 AM.
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  5. #5
    Community Member maha0201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiirix View Post
    The higher cha is for UMD. 21skill + 6cha + 2boost + 3 item + 6 shroud item = 38 UMD = heal scrolls.
    I planned to take rogue for Evasion, locks and skillpoints mainly. Dont want to do traps. Have an other char for that. But i will have a look at those barb levels. Sure I'll find some raging barb builds here.
    4 rages for 2 min are awsome you also get, 1 PA, sprint boost, dmg boost, 1 con enhancment

    Hmm let me see on that umd 21 skils +1 luck (voice/ship) + 6 gs +4 GH ( scrolls in worst case) + 4 from cha ( starting 10 cha) = 36 +3 item ( cartouche) +2 boost = 41
    or without boost and hogf / crafted trinket = 40
    Thelanis -> D 20bbn (TR 1) | H 11rgr/7mnk/2ftr+2 (TR 1) | K 20bbn+3 (TR 3) | K 15pal/3mnk/2ftr (TR 1) | M 20+1 fvs (TR 2) | S 8mnk/12pal (TR 2)
    Gimped -> B 20wiz | Work in progress -> B (TR 1) 6rgr/6bbn/1rog | B (TR2) 14fs I drop BB; I don't HJEEEAL (:

  6. #6
    Community Member Jiirix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maha0201 View Post
    4 rages for 2 min are awsome you also get, 1 PA, sprint boost, dmg boost, 1 con enhancment

    Hmm let me see on that umd 21 skils +1 luck (voice/ship) + 6 gs +4 GH ( scrolls in worst case) + 4 from cha ( starting 10 cha) = 36 +3 item ( cartouche) +2 boost = 41
    or without boost and hogf / crafted trinket = 40
    I see I forgott something here (I even own 2 planar girds..) Thanks for the numbers. So if i had a +3 dex tome or start as a TR or go THF i could get my str strength to 18. Back to the planner then, but that has to wait till tomorrow.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by maha0201 View Post
    As for the build im not big fan of warchanter 2wf with rog splashes you need to go out of rage to do traps
    Small correction: you can still do traps with rage spell (but not with barb rage). However you said you don't want to do traps, but I think it's nice option to have for a small investment.

  8. #8
    Community Member maha0201's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirAggravator View Post
    Small correction: you can still do traps with rage spell (but not with barb rage). However you said you don't want to do traps, but I think it's nice option to have for a small investment.
    yeah i ment wc/bbn rage for that part, since you can go in defensive stance to undo rage / recklessness

    Quote Originally Posted by maha0201 View Post
    Hmm let me see on that umd 21 skils +1 luck (voice/ship) + 6 gs +4 GH ( scrolls in worst case) + 4 from cha ( starting 10 cha) = 36 +3 item ( cartouche) +2 boost = 41
    or without boost and hogf / crafted trinket = 40
    I forgot focus chant so:
    UMD = 21 + 2 ( luck) +6 ( GS ) + 1 (focus chant ) + 4 ( GH ) + 3 (cartouche) = 37
    So if you start with 8 cha eat +2 tome and put +6 item youll have no fail ( with hogf/ luck 2 item)

    And personaly id go max umd perform concetration then put skills in balanca / haggle
    Last edited by maha0201; 06-20-2011 at 08:05 AM.
    Thelanis -> D 20bbn (TR 1) | H 11rgr/7mnk/2ftr+2 (TR 1) | K 20bbn+3 (TR 3) | K 15pal/3mnk/2ftr (TR 1) | M 20+1 fvs (TR 2) | S 8mnk/12pal (TR 2)
    Gimped -> B 20wiz | Work in progress -> B (TR 1) 6rgr/6bbn/1rog | B (TR2) 14fs I drop BB; I don't HJEEEAL (:

  9. #9
    Community Member Bart_D's Avatar
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    I have a bard16/rogue2/fighter2, a couple comments
    - i don't think you'll need OTWF for hitting; dp clickies usually do the trick nicely
    - i like being able to do traps, does not seem to be a huge investment
    - sometimes i wish i had taken ranger instead of fighter; bow strength, better reflex, sprint, FE+enh and skills would be nice; but fighter's str+1 and toughness enhancement are nice too... not sure what is 'best'
    - not sure i understand about rage... the rage spell does not prevent anything and i like to be able to cast or scroll if needed so do not use madstone boots

  10. #10
    Community Member Valindria's Avatar
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    The 16/2/2 split is pretty standard. I would say make sure you take WC II. Reckless is awesome and worth using most to all of the time depending on the quest and party.

  11. #11
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maha0201 View Post
    many shot is at 6th rgr lvl, and fighter get 2 feats for 2 lvls... so he would get 2wf and bow STR from 2 rgr, and 2wf and otwf or any combat feat from 2 ftr...
    Right, Manyshot is 6th, I was thinking Rapid Shot. my bad.

    So you would get, Bow Strength, TWF and Rapid Shot, for the Ranger, along with the extra skill points, compared to the 2 feats you get as a fighter. (Armor and Tower Shield, are not going to be worth anything to this build)

    Just saying.

  12. #12

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    I did trap skills on my 16/2/2 WC. Don't always use them but there are a few quests while leveling that are worth doing the traps for the xp bonus. VoN3 comes to mind, think it's only like 3 or 4 traps disabled for +15% xp. There are others where just 1 or 2 trap disarms gets you a bonus. As long as it is only a few traps, I like to do them just for the xp.

  13. #13
    Community Member Chubsta's Avatar
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    I based my warchanter on Thanimal's Axesinger build. This is my first toon and still my favorite to play.

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195289
    Last edited by Chubsta; 06-20-2011 at 06:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Jiirix's Avatar
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    Default Heavy Metal Warforged

    Thanks for all the input. Came up with a some Warforged-THF-Raging-Warchanter. I like the idea of an Heavy-Metal-Bard with bad attiude. http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/heavy-metal/250-1.jpg WF dont get exhausted and get better THF, that comes handy. Only drawback: To get the maximum out of the barb levels a barb paste life would be nice. Without TR I would drop some Int and skills and take cleave or FOP instead of the past life feat.

    Edit: Does the barb past live still stack with the normal barb rages?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 392
    Spell Points: 495 
    BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         18                    23
    Intelligence         10                    12
    Wisdom                6                     6
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    22
    Concentration         8                    29
    Haggle                5                    25
    Jump                  7                    26
    Perform               5                    25
    Use Magic Device      5                   25
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
    Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
    Enhancement: Warforged Inscribed Armor I
    Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude III
    Last edited by Jiirix; 06-21-2011 at 04:39 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Right, Manyshot is 6th, I was thinking Rapid Shot. my bad.

    So you would get, Bow Strength, TWF and Rapid Shot, for the Ranger, along with the extra skill points, compared to the 2 feats you get as a fighter. (Armor and Tower Shield, are not going to be worth anything to this build)

    Just saying.
    In other words you get twf (1 worthwhile feat) from ranger versus twf and itwf (2 worthwhile feats) from fighter.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Jiirix's Avatar
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    Ranger wasn't on my list from the start. 16 levels of bard are set, two levels of fighter too. But I am not sure yet if I will take two rogue or two barb as the third class. Rogue would be the two-axes-figthing Dwarf I posted first, because TWF and evasion both need high dex. Barb would be the dexless THF Warforged build I posted second. More STR and HP or Evasion, tricky decision.
    Last edited by Jiirix; 06-21-2011 at 06:31 AM.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    In other words you get twf (1 worthwhile feat) from ranger versus twf and itwf (2 worthwhile feats) from fighter.
    Ok, so Fighter offers 1 feat more then the ranger, as TWF would be taken no matter what.

    However, the worthwhile nature of any feat is contingent upon the design, build, and intent of the player.

    In regards to the OP's build, it is obvious that the choice between Fighter and Ranger, in this case, is really a choice between taking Weapon Focus Slashing or Rapid Shot and Bow Strength.

    Just like the tower shield feat and heavy armor feat from fighter is worthless to this build, if they have no desire to use a bow, and don't mind the skill point loss for 2 levels (which really is not a big deal tbh) then that is fine, go with fighter, or take barb, rage can be fun . They have enough feats to get the TWF and ITWF anyway

    Again , depends on what they want to do and what their preference is.
    Last edited by Ungood; 06-21-2011 at 08:21 AM.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiirix View Post
    Ranger wasn't on my list from the start. 16 levels of bard are set, two levels of fighter too. But I am not sure yet if I will take two rogue or two barb as the third class. Rogue would be the two-axes-figthing Dwarf I posted first, because TWF and evasion both need high dex. Barb would be the dexless THF Warforged build I posted second. More STR and HP or Evasion, tricky decision.
    Alright. never mind the ranger then. no big, again, just a matter of what you want after all, no matter what anyone says, this is your character, not mine, of anyone elses, you will be the one that has to play it.

    But, seeing this, Those are vastly different builds. So, what do you really want to play?

  19. #19
    Community Member Jiirix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungood View Post
    Those are vastly different builds. So, what do you really want to play?
    The builds aren't that different: Both with 16 levels of bard and full songs. The difference are TWF+evasion vs. THF+70HP more. Would be interesting to know if the barb past life still stackes.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiirix View Post
    The builds aren't that different: Both with 16 levels of bard and full songs. The difference are TWF+evasion vs. THF+70HP more. Would be interesting to know if the barb past life still stackes.
    I have a WF THF and a Dwarf TWF, and while they are smiliar in class/build, they tend to play very different. And it's little things to, like WF immunities, lack of being able to jump, being able to charge though a trap as opposed to having to worry if you are about to become tender-crip chicken.

    And imho as the levels move on, those slight variance do make for a different feel to the game and while the THF died out, I found the TWF to be far more fun as it matched what I wanted to do. Or at least they do to me, and that might be because I don't have a dozen builds to 20th yet and haven't played it all.

    In that regard, I would suggest try them both, see how the early 5 - 6th levels stack up to, see if you like the dwarf TWF or the WF THF, I know people that tried a WF and just fell in love with the race. So, if you have tried most of what is out there already, then, I would say, it could just be a coin toss to you. if not, you might want to feel them both out a bit, get your feet wet and see which one appeals to you, after all, it is just a character slot for a short time, to run them both for a bit, and not like you need to go past Krothos gear to get a feel for them on equal footing.

    Give it a try, what is the worst that happens? You like them both and level them to 20th?

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