Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 61
  1. #41
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Your lack of understanding of the bard class needs enriching grasshoppa.

    Do you know the difference of inspire courage song between spell singer and warchanter?

    +1 to attack rolls, +2 to damage rolls, and +1 to fear saves.

    or:

    +4 bonus to your Concentration (great to have in combat situations when you need to hit that emergency heal)

    Use Magic Device +4 (great for Heal scrolls, raise dead, etc)

    +200 maximum Spell Points (more mana means more healing or CC)

    Opens up Spellsong Vigor, which I've YET to hear a blue-barred toon complain about recieving.

    Your narrow definition of a bard is to sing a song and die. Thats why the way you are "selling" your build is nothing short of BS.

    Warchanter, Spellsinger, Virtuoso. They ALL can be effective in the end game. It just comes down to your understanding of the game mechanics and how you want to play your bard.
    Have to agree with this, I've got a Warchanter splash build now that I'm seriously considering switching to this type of build. Classic Rocker Spellsinger of sorts.

    Casters play a big role in many epic groups now, since many are often brought for dps. Even in a melee dominated group, there is nothing wrong with extra spellpoints for the healer, myself and cc.

    Furthermore, I really like the extra Charisma and +4 UMD to help me hit my thresholds without having to swap gear, which means I can swap to scrolls quicker if needed.
    The Silver Legion - Guild Medieval
    Arisan - Arisanna - Arisanto - Arisgard - Betatest
    Cannith

  2. #42
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    I stopped reading right there.

    Nothing you say after that matters.

    Have a nice day.
    ROFL...I thought I was the only one that would stop reading at that point.

  3. #43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    ROFL...I thought I was the only one that would stop reading at that point.
    I read it and thought it was a troll post. There is one constructive point in there tho -- there is room to skip human feat bonus on a melee bard that doesn't take the THF chain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  4. #44
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    I read it and thought it was a troll post. There is one constructive point in there tho -- there is room to skip human feat bonus on a melee bard that doesn't take the THF chain.
    Ok, thanks for the tl;dr there. I'd agree with that...if you're going pure melee, THF, and not taking the chain then Half Elf is probably better than Human assuming you want the rest of what Human brings to the table and other options like HOrc would be better if you didn't. That's a pretty narrow frame in which the post was right considering the 'Lolwut humans r gimp' opening statement.

  5. #45
    Community Member Valindria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    I read it and thought it was a troll post. There is one constructive point in there tho -- there is room to skip human feat bonus on a melee bard that doesn't take the THF chain.
    Same here. Plus the OP was talking about LR so there is no option to change race.

  6. #46
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    As far as the race goes the only one that is truly bad right now is Warforged for anything other than Warchanter. And that's just because Turbine won't fix Sustaining Song/Spellsong Vigor to work on them so you're completely losing any personal benefit from the t2 song. Meanwhile, Warforged Warchanters get the advantage of no penalty from their t2 song while fleshies in typical gear dip below 100% fortification.

    I tried to fight it for a long time on my pure WF'd bard Rokkum but finally gave in and went Warchanter. I just couldn't take having abilities that did nothing for me personally even though they were supposed to work. It just felt broken.

  7. #47
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Geonis View Post
    One of the few times I agree with Shade. Why go with the "casting PrE" and then dump Cha?
    The same reason FvS go melee and dump wisdom. They arent going to focus into DC spells.

    By giving up offensive casting, the bard can focus on other things, like fighting, buffing, and healing. If there is an absolute need for CC spur of the moment, any one of the PRE can throw down a DC 50+ fascinate, even with bottom of the barrel charisma.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  8. #48
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First of all, not sure how Mad got that I didn't play a healing bard from my answers. I actually mentioned solo healing Shrouds.

    I was mistaken though on my feats and wanted to take this post to clarify. I took Maximize, Empower, and Quicken...not Empower Healing. I knew there were 3 meta's for healing but for some reason Quicken didn't jump to mind. If you're going to heal while swinging Quicken's pretty important. I tried it without for a few raids and even with maxed con and a con item I lost some heals.

    Finally, if you've got a raid full of people running 110%+ healing amp then sure, you can get by without Max + Empower. Toss in a few warforged though that are running without healing amp and good luck getting by. Heck, I was having to scroll reconstructs in between cooldowns of Cure Light/Cure Moderate when I solo healed one of the Shrouds I PuG'd. I swear one of the wf'd barbs didn't even have healer's friend I.

    So Leslie's dead on. If you never PuG and the people you group with all have max hp's for their build and at least a bit of healing amp then you'll be absolutely fine without Empower. Heck, I've solo healed parts of eDA before on just scrolls because the healer DC'd...if the group is well geared you can get away with scroll healing in quite a few epics. If you PuG a lot though you're going to want that flexibility for times when a poorly geared group takes damage faster than Maximize alone will heal it.
    NO you are wrong. On Knyber we pug. I have pugged as sole healer on my bard and healed the party, while outkilling everyone else, and supplying bard songs. What that means is the rest of the party was poor, yet I did not drink a pot and we completed the epic quest (into the deep for e.g.). This is not the normal situation mind you, but a bard can do the job. A healing bard does not use two metamagics other then the occasional quicken because they would know their mana for healing would not last the entire quest especially if we are talking about a warchanter. I use scrolls of course especially in main tank situations, but the primary means I use to heal is my spell points.

    If I am pugging an epic I love to heal on my bard because I know the party's dps will not suck due to my bard songs and the personal dps that I provide and I can heal. It is my experience that the worst thing that can happen in ddo is poor party dps.

    The shroud is an easy quest to heal and has been healed by bards for years. The real healing game is epics at least until the devs make a new end game.
    Last edited by maddmatt70; 06-21-2011 at 07:38 PM.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    NO you are wrong. On Knyber we pug. I have pugged as sole healer on my bard and healed the party, while outkilling everyone else, and supplying bard songs. What that means is..
    What this means you are self centered and your example does not pertain to the majority of bards reading this. The general reader learns nothing from your post other than you got top kill count in a group that you thought sucked.

    Dont think anyone really cares if you run with friends, pugs, or run with your guildies. You must have lost that in the last few posts. Bad advice is bad advice.

    The Shroud might be an easy quest to heal (it certainly was/is for me) but that's not what someone who just started running Shroud may say. Also, someone's reflexes might not be top notch, his gear may not be as good, or maybe someone simply enjoys the fact that he can get that heal down before (or better than) you ever could, regardless of your carrying on that you can leap tall buildings with a single meta.

    I healed for years with just empower healing. No quicken, no maximize. So quicken and maximize to me are pudding. But I know metas open opportunities for many, when used wisely.

    It's not a mistake to look at taking more than one meta on a bard who plans to heal. It IS a mistake to tell someone that they should NOT take the metas because you dont use them or see value in them.

    Stop while you are simply behind.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 06-21-2011 at 08:20 PM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  10. #50
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,127

    Default

    Race choice is irrelevant to this discussion.

    So is warchanter, since I have explained why I don't want one. I would like advice on combat feats - THF feats, or cleaves?

    Thanks for the advice/discussion so far!
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  11. #51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    Race choice is irrelevant to this discussion.

    So is warchanter, since I have explained why I don't want one. I would like advice on combat feats - THF feats, or cleaves?

    Thanks for the advice/discussion so far!
    I prefer THF feats to cleave.

    I'm wondering about shield mastery and improved shield mastery for damage mitigation if it becomes necessary. I haven't played with those yet, and I'm not sure tbh on them but they have my curiosity lately.

    Anyone else tried those on something other than a PM or RS? I'm used to TWF or THF on bards but some damage mitigation could be worth while.
    Last edited by Aashrym; 06-22-2011 at 12:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  12. #52

    Default

    I'm definitely a fan of THF feats on a melee focused mixed class bard. On a pure bard Im much more apt to say skip the thf feats. I like extend, cleave and empower healing, for what you are trying to do. This way you are boosting your buffs, DPS, and healing. Empower healing is controversial but it gives a nice boost to your heals and offers the best efficiency for bard healing in most situations.

    Cleave by the way works much faster than it used to. Not only a DPS tool however. I also use it as a way to peal mobs off the party cleric/casters and held/stoned/endcapped/etc party members.

    Now, if you do take all three THF feats, you will most definitely get a boost to your overall DPS.

    My 16/2/2 Genghis warchanter gets 30s-40s on glancing blows. Heck even if you got low 20s that would be significant (2s and 3s without the feats). How high you can get your strength is the indicator I use on whether the THF feats are worth it for a particular build.

    Realistic example: 18 STR + 3 tome + 1 litany + 1 human + 3 exceptional + 5 levels + 2 yugo + 2 rage + 2 airship, +7 str item = 42 STR (glancing blows: mid-high 20s - low 30s)

    Now, dont get too excited by all the additional DPS. If you notice none of it increases single mob DPS, its all about group damage. You need to play into the advantages of THF feats or cleaves, or else they are taking up space in your build.

    Whichever way you go, good luck to ya!
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 06-22-2011 at 01:27 AM.


    TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Dungeons & Dragons Online Guild
    No Drama. Cameraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!

    Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | GHALLANDA GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!


  13. #53
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    The reason we've broken off into other discussions is that the THF chain of feats isn't a question of whether to take them - you do want them as they're a significant dps increase. It's a question of whether you want other feats more than the THF chain.

    For me personally if I was going max strength I wouldn't try to fit in healing anymore. And it's because of the THF chain. I don't like twitching and getting max dps w/o the feats = twitching. So for me, if I'm on a human max strength pure bard I'm taking Tough, PA, Extend, WF: Slashing, iCrit: Slashing, THF, iTHF, gTHF and done. I've tried running w/o Extend and at some point on my WF'd bard I'll have to go back there but I honestly don't like it. With Extend you can haste, through on your madstone boots, get madstone rage, swap out the boots with > 2 minutes left on the haste, and be ready to recast haste before it runs out. Without Extend your haste is the same length as the madstone rage. That's not always applicable but if you're in an easy quest like the shroud with a decent group you'll often be willing to sacrifice casting for more damage. I like having the flexibility to madstone and still handle group rage/hastes.

    I guess if you're going Spellsinger though you'll have Maximize as a requirement taking the place of WF: Slashing. In that case I could see going w/ just Maximize but with just the one meta I'd look at the toon as a melee toon that can heal in a pinch as opposed to a balanced heal/melee toon. For that I'd probably go with Quicken/Emp/something else (cleave for instance). Taking just THF isn't going to get you away from twitching being better than standing still and twitching gets rid of any value from taking THF. As I mention though, I've done this (twitch attacking while solo healing raids) and unless you have an ADD play style it's not fun. Doubly not fun if you can't use a mic because you really can't talk while playing then.

  14. #54
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Cackalacky
    Posts
    9,593

    Default

    Personally, if I'm not going to get the full THF chain I generally avoid taking the first one EXCEPT on a WF or Orc that has the racial enhancements too boost the additional proc-chance of effects.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  15. #55
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,127

    Default

    Healing is important to me - the original character is a very capable healer. Essentially, I'm trying to maintain the character's healing abilities, while dropping her CC abilities for more robust melee.

    Looks like it will be:
    Str: 18
    Con: 16
    Cha: 14

    1) Extend
    2) Toughness
    3) Power Attack
    4) Improve Crit
    5) Quicken
    6) Maximise
    7) THF
    8) ITHF

    I may consider picking up Empower Healing as well (the character currently has emp healing and maximise -> I just want to experiment and see what the difference is).

    I don't really see why the THF feats would be an all or nothing kind of thing, since they each give an equal bonus (isn't it 10% glancing damage 3% procs per feat?).

    Appreciating all the feedback
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  16. #56
    Community Member Valindria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoBoDaClown View Post
    Healing is important to me - the original character is a very capable healer. Essentially, I'm trying to maintain the character's healing abilities, while dropping her CC abilities for more robust melee.

    Looks like it will be:
    Str: 18
    Con: 16
    Cha: 14

    1) Extend
    2) Toughness
    3) Power Attack
    4) Improve Crit
    5) Quicken
    6) Maximise
    7) THF
    8) ITHF

    I may consider picking up Empower Healing as well (the character currently has emp healing and maximise -> I just want to experiment and see what the difference is).

    I don't really see why the THF feats would be an all or nothing kind of thing, since they each give an equal bonus (isn't it 10% glancing damage 3% procs per feat?).

    Appreciating all the feedback
    Because the last THF feat (GTHF) gives glancing blows on your 3rd swing. So that is why it's kind of an all or nothing thing. 50% base damage 3/4 swings vs 40% base damage on 2/4 swings. You can get by with partial but in most cases bards will find other feats that they find more helpful.

  17. #57
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Valindria View Post
    Because the last THF feat (GTHF) gives glancing blows on your 3rd swing. So that is why it's kind of an all or nothing thing. 50% base damage 3/4 swings vs 40% base damage on 2/4 swings. You can get by with partial but in most cases bards will find other feats that they find more helpful.
    That and there's a break-even point depending on gear, character build, and player skill where twitching eclipses THF chain on single-target dps. I won't even pretend that I know what that point is but I know that taking 1 or 2 feats make it much more likely that the THF line will only be situationally your best dps option.

  18. #58
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Valindria View Post
    Because the last THF feat (GTHF) gives glancing blows on your 3rd swing. So that is why it's kind of an all or nothing thing. 50% base damage 3/4 swings vs 40% base damage on 2/4 swings. You can get by with partial but in most cases bards will find other feats that they find more helpful.
    Hmmmmmm

    Interesting - I had absolutely no idea.

    Thanks for informing me.
    Server: Thelanis
    Guild: Fallen Immortals
    Toons: Soza, Sozz, Sozza, Sossa (bards)

  19. #59
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Try:
    3 weapon feets
    IC
    toughness
    extend
    maximize
    emp. heal

    You lose PA, but your hole reason for switching to thf was due to attack bonuses and missing, you could switch to TWF with this setup. Also when your hitting on a 2 regardless, you can swap in Khopleshes and just bite the -4 proficiency.

    Someone can do the numbers but this might be more DPS.

    PS. what are you planning on quickening? your cures cast fast and it will save you a fraction of a second, pump up concentration and use an item and you will likely not fail many/any casts.

  20. #60
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    Try:
    3 weapon feets
    IC
    toughness
    extend
    maximize
    emp. heal

    You lose PA, but your hole reason for switching to thf was due to attack bonuses and missing, you could switch to TWF with this setup. Also when your hitting on a 2 regardless, you can swap in Khopleshes and just bite the -4 proficiency.

    Someone can do the numbers but this might be more DPS.

    PS. what are you planning on quickening? your cures cast fast and it will save you a fraction of a second, pump up concentration and use an item and you will likely not fail many/any casts.
    When you're solo healing in a raid 1 fail is too many. I had 20+ concentration (forget what level I was) with a +15 item and a high con and I was failing probably 2 every part 4 in shroud. High damage numbers are hard to cast through regardless of the concentration.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload