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  1. #1
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    Default Khopesh or Rapier: Which is better for an Assassin Rogue

    Basically what the title says. I have seen assassin rogues with either and I am wondering which does better for a rogue. (My bet is on khopesh but I am probably wrong)

    Also I am curious in the calculations if someone is up for it but I do not really need it.

    Edit: I know it seems bad to ask about which "weap is better lololol" but as a new player I want to make sure I do not do something dumb when it comes to the wep choice (even thought so far from what I have read it seems to be some-what of a personal preference between the two)
    Last edited by Nader; 06-17-2011 at 02:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    elven rogue, rapiers own. take the racial enhancements for more to hit and damage. human rogue, take the free feat for khopesh, and don't neglect str

    aside from that... *shrug*

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  3. #3
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    I wish there was a reason to use rapiers. They are more flavorful, but you are not missing anything by taking the khopesh proficiency feat. At endgame, khopesh dps is very far ahead, and it scales better as you gear up.

    You don't need to level up with those, though. Khopeshes are expensive at the AH. Swap the feat in when you get your greensteel.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Khopeshes definitely.

    You just get so much more out of every +damage or +strength effect you pick up as you gear up.
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  5. #5
    Community Member ProdigalGuru's Avatar
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    You did not provide enough supporting facts for me to offer an accurate assessment.
    Last edited by ProdigalGuru; 06-16-2011 at 01:17 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Talking Topic

    I run a Dwarf Rogue and I use Dwarven Axes, but that's just me. Khopeshes arepretty much best but for Dwarves the Enhancements shore up the difference between Khop and Dwarfaxe most of the way.
    Good luck, have fun

  7. #7
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    I say, 40 standing str horc Khopesh is > silly elven/drow finess rapier users.

  8. #8

    Default Basic bare-bones calculations

    Say you have a 30 standing strength, and you hit on a 2 (all critical hits are confirmed). With improved crit in the appropriate weapon.
    Over 20 swings:

    A rapier misses 1, gets a normal hit for 13 (2-14), and crits for x2 for 6 = 25 "hits". So just counting the strength damage (+10 for 30 str) = 250/(20 swings) = 12.5 per swing.

    A Khopesh misses 1, gets a normal hit for 15 (2-16), and crits for x3 for 4 = 27 "hits." So just counting the strength and the fact that khopesh do base 1d8 instead of a rapier's 1d6 = 11x27 = 297/20 = 14.85 per hit.

    This gap increases as strength increases. If you have racial enhancements for rapiers due to being elf/drow, you should probably go with rapiers.

    Edit: Also, my calculations are *so* bare-boned that they make rapiers seem better than they actually are in comparison to khopesh. My calcs are slightly flawed in that they do not factor in even the full base weapon damage, which gives a slightly bigger edge to the khopesh. Additionally, ANYTHING that raises the damage of your weapon that gets multiplied on a crit (i.e. anything that isn't a weapon effect such as flaming or holy) will favor the khopesh.
    Last edited by mindlessdrone1991; 06-16-2011 at 02:13 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Using rapiers on my halfling assassin currently. It's a finesse build, relying mostly on threat reduction, bluff, SA damage and dual wielding. STR could probably be better, but it's not horrible. I'd probably od more damage with Khopesh, but I like the crit range on rapiers, especially the Lit2 rapiers, with IC: Pierce. As soon as I get enough large scales to finish my second one I have a feeling it will feel like an even better choice. for my build, I like it. For other builds, maybe not so much.

    If you're looking for a purely objective DPS-based answer, Khopeshes are kings of DPS for TWF.
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    I'd go rapier or scimitar myself on anything where SA is an issue. RadII, IC, and the larger critical threat range would be awesome on anything you could SA.

  11. #11
    Community Member .Revenga.'s Avatar
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    khopesh will give you more dps then rapiers, there is no question. The difference between them
    is rather small tho compared to the full rogue damage ( on no fort mobs)

    However, it also costs a feat and some other feats might grant you a bigger dps boost
    then the khopesh one.
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  12. #12
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    Khopeshes are pretty much the kings in pure DPS terms.

    However if feats are tight, rapiers are generally better for the higher crit range. Also, when you get greensteel as a rogue you'll almost certainly want a radiance weapon & rapiers are pretty much the go-to choice for those.
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  13. #13
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    I use rapiers because I plan on TRing again and won't be able to afford the feat on every life. Something to consider if you're TRing a lot. Never had a problem with DPS.

    edit: Not a rogue but still applies.
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  14. #14
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    I'm fairly sure that khoplesh without the feet (-4 hit) and without power attack will still out DPS rapiers with PA and racial enhancements. I however have not worked out the maths for rogues but if someone wants to give it a go...

    This might be a way to save a feet (PA) on a feet starved build and you will have rapiers to fall back on if your missing. This is actually what I'm doing with my FvS.

  15. #15
    Community Member .Revenga.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim1 View Post
    I'm fairly sure that khoplesh without the feet (-4 hit) and without power attack will still out DPS rapiers with PA and racial enhancements. I however have not worked out the maths for rogues but if someone wants to give it a go...

    This might be a way to save a feet (PA) on a feet starved build and you will have rapiers to fall back on if your missing. This is actually what I'm doing with my FvS.

    PA is a much more important feat then khopesh.
    - it's not fort dependant, it always adds dps
    - it adds more dps then khopesh vs rapiers ( not doing math now, but prove me wrong )
    - you can turn it off when you want more to-hit

    And if you want rapiers as a fall back you need both IC slashing and piercing, that's not possible on a rogue,
    ofc you can master touch scimitars.
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  16. #16
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    Fully twinked, khopesh probably wins in any situation.


    That said, puncturing rapiers are very easy to acquire even on a first life, and with IC they're pretty powerful. Even more so if you're going to use Assassinate, since they drop the enemy's Fort save.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by suszterpatt View Post
    Fully twinked, khopesh probably wins in any situation.
    elf/dark elf enhancements and it becomes iffy, esp with bonus to hit if needed will help more in dps than khopesh because if you aren't hitting, you aren't doing dps.

    Add in fortification, and it becomes rapiers in that situation all the way.

    Other thoughts for the OP to weigh...

    You'll probalby find more rapiers on the AH than khopeshes, but at near the same high prices, however.

    You won't find any smiting khopeshes.

    DR: Rapiers will beat down spiders and rakshasas. Khopeshes will slice through zombies (but no sneak there at all nor crits.)

  18. #18
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    Default Rapier vs khopesh

    The khopesh is clearly Much better in every situation. The only time a Rapier can stay close to it in damage is if you have the racial (elven) rapier enhancements maxef for damage.....khopesh is still better, even then, but its close....if you are elven and dont want to spend the feat for khopesh, then rapier is the way to go.
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  19. #19
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    when asking these questions the more information you give you the better answear you get, possible not by giving out name but everting about the character in question
    stats feats and equip, and how fast you get better equip are important to the question.

    question comes down to how much dps is a single feat worth to you, 2 per hit 5 per hit 10 per hit? then wed need your detailed info to give you how much dps you lose on your build by not going khopesh it may be as low as 2damage per hit or it could be 10 damage per hit.

  20. #20
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    Wink *this* thread again

    The spreadsheet gamers and min/maxers will all tell you that the only weapon in the game that isn't vendor trash (or deconstruction fodder) are the khopeshes. Yes, they do the most dps because of a better crit and base damage profile. The question is, does it make a difference to you that you take down the training dummy in 12 seconds, or 14 seconds?

    It's not required to always have the top DPS gear; imagine if TH fighters argued that everyone should only ever carry around epic SoS? I don't remeber reading that thread recently, but a new "khopesh über alles" thread pops up at least three times a week.

    For your specific question, Assassins don't always have to rely on the highest DPS. If you have the right gear and feats, you're going to be chopping heads off of trash mobs on every 20 anyway, so total DPS doesn't really matter. Also, if you can get the play style right, you'll be hitting sneak and assassinate (on susceptible mobs) before the ranger has time to reload, so you won't care how much damage you might be doing if you hadn't just killed that mob in one swing. You can be a decent killing machine carrying around a pair of masterwork clubs.

    For the occasions where you face bosses and mobs that are immune to vorpal and assassinations, I refer you back to my first question: Does it make a difference to you that Harry goes down in the final round of shroud in 5 fewer seconds? If it does, then khopesh is the weapon for you.

    My rogue uses rapiers because she made GS rapiers ages ago, and she's too cheap and lazy to rebuild and respec. She still contributes to the party (often leading kill counts) and I have not experienced a quest failure due to a slightly lower DPS number. Others use daggers (or staffs or repeaters) because it fits the flavor of their character. Play the character the way you like and don't worry about what the math gamers say; you won't be in the top cell of the DPS spreadsheet, but you probably don't play DDO in Excel. If your party fails because you're missing 5 points of damage, it was probably a pretty weak party to begin with.

    (Much love to the spreadsheet gamers, min/maxers and DDO math nerds, by the way)
    Last edited by WirelessJoe; 06-16-2011 at 09:43 AM.

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