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  1. #41
    Community Member fluffybunnywilson's Avatar
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    And if you want to upgrade from a +4 to a +5 and you don't have the room to add 5 more, you can potentially change +4 to +1 and then upgrade from +1 to +5.

    It's a very annoying workaround, but at least it works.

  2. #42
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    any weapon suffixs that are +0? cant find one

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodoldxelos View Post
    any weapon suffixs that are +0? cant find one
    There are none that I know of, but you can get around that by using +0 prefix shards like fire touch. Sure you lose your prefix in the process of upgrading the suffix and have to apply it again, but that's a much better option than disjuncting a potential +12 or higher weapon and starting from scratch.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    There are none that I know of, but you can get around that by using +0 prefix shards like fire touch. Sure you lose your prefix in the process of upgrading the suffix and have to apply it again, but that's a much better option than disjuncting a potential +12 or higher weapon and starting from scratch.
    Actually, it's really depend on what potential level the original item have. For example, upgrade suffix on a +6 potential weapon ( +2 holy dagger of lesser plant bane ) with +7 potential shard and another potential power 1 dummy suffix shard might be cheaper than replace the prefix (holy in this case).
    [ Fernia / Ghallanda ]
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  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by samho View Post
    Actually, it's really depend on what potential level the original item have. For example, upgrade suffix on a +6 potential weapon ( +2 holy dagger of lesser plant bane ) with +7 potential shard and another potential power 1 dummy suffix shard might be cheaper than replace the prefix (holy in this case).
    Absolutely. The theory goes that you'll eventually use that potential anyway, so any time you can upgrade by adding an "extra" potential, that's the most efficient way to go.

    If you're trying to get from the penultimate potential to the cap potential, you have no choice but to zero something out. For weapons, that means you have to zero out the prefix. Until then, smart money is on adding extra potential.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by samho View Post
    Actually, it's really depend on what potential level the original item have. For example, upgrade suffix on a +6 potential weapon ( +2 holy dagger of lesser plant bane ) with +7 potential shard and another potential power 1 dummy suffix shard might be cheaper than replace the prefix (holy in this case).
    This is true for items with low potential, but not for high potential ones.

    Take a +5 Holy Burst Silver Weapon of Lawful outsider bane, do you really want to upgrade it potential +15 just so you can add Greater Lawful Outsider bane to it? After the upgrade you've just wasted over 2k lesser essences to make it potential +15, when instead you could've just upgraded it to potential +13, used a fire touch shard, applied glob and added holy burst back, then the weapon is done and you're not going to upgrade it ever again, so you've basically wasted two extremely expensive potential shards.

    <edit> When you craft higher level items, it is never the shards for effects that are going to be the bottleneck, it's the potential shards because after potential +9 they start to be very expensive in lesser essences and you absolutely don't want to add them unless necessary. Or maybe you have tens of thousands of lesser essences laying around in your bag and can afford to waste them, I know I don't, and I actually need to gather ~2k lessers for potential shards to upgrade *one* weapon.
    Last edited by Viisari; 07-04-2011 at 02:48 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    This is true for items with low potential, but not for high potential ones.

    Take a +5 Holy Burst Silver Weapon of Lawful outsider bane, do you really want to upgrade it potential +15 just so you can add Greater Lawful Outsider bane to it? After the upgrade you've just wasted over 2k lesser essences to make it potential +15, when instead you could've just upgraded it to potential +13, used a fire touch shard, applied glob and added holy burst back, then the weapon is done and you're not going to upgrade it ever again, so you've basically wasted two extremely expensive potential shards.

    <edit> When you craft higher level items, it is never the shards for effects that are going to be the bottleneck, it's the potential shards because after potential +9 they start to be very expensive in lesser essences and you absolutely don't want to add them unless necessary. Or maybe you have tens of thousands of lesser essences laying around in your bag and can afford to waste them, I know I don't, and I actually need to gather ~2k lessers for potential shards to upgrade *one* weapon.
    I'm doing eyeball math on this comment(and I'm pretty bad at eyeballing it to be honest) but wouldn't it potentially be cheaper to drop enhancement to +1 Then upgrade suffix as opposed to readding holy burst?

    Also anyone else find it ironic that gcob and glob basically beat hell out of geob simply due to different dr/metal types and eladrin?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelblueskies View Post
    I'm doing eyeball math on this comment(and I'm pretty bad at eyeballing it to be honest) but wouldn't it potentially be cheaper to drop enhancement to +1 Then upgrade suffix as opposed to readding holy burst?

    Also anyone else find it ironic that gcob and glob basically beat hell out of geob simply due to different dr/metal types and eladrin?
    I think the problem with that comes when you're trying to increase the enhancement back to +5, you'd need +5 five meta levels worth of free potential since crafting checks if there is free metalevels first and then calculates the final metalevel, and this is where most of the problems come from when upgrading items.

    So if you have a +5 Holy Burst of LOB it's a potential +11 item. Upgrade it to potential +13 (for the final metalevel) and you can downgrade enhancement to +1, and now it is metalevel 7, apply GLOB and it is metalevel 9. Next you'd want to upgrade it back to +5, but because the weapon already has 9 metalevels, you'd need to upgrade it to potential +14 to do the upgrade and you'd end up wasting an expensive potential shard just for the upgrading process.

    This is why you need to use shards with metalevel 0.

    And it isn't really ironic imo, gcob and glob are simply more focused to a specific task, geob is still very good for a shintao monk for example or just making a general beater for outsiders that isn't meant for bossbeating.
    Last edited by Viisari; 07-04-2011 at 03:52 AM.

  9. #49
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    Ah! That's the problem we forgot the spare potential needed on the crafted bb to fit a stone of change ritual. I also suspect a lot of icy burst kits and suboptimal beaters getting banked soon in hopes of a cap increase with even more potential levels.

    But yes, I see your point. Probably a function of mental accounting for stone of change ritual on my part.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    So if you have a +5 Holy Burst of LOB it's a potential +11 item. Upgrade it to potential +13 (for the final metalevel) and you can downgrade enhancement to +1, and now it is metalevel 7, apply GLOB and it is metalevel 9. Next you'd want to upgrade it back to +5, but because the weapon already has 9 metalevels, you'd need to upgrade it to potential +14 to do the upgrade and you'd end up wasting an expensive potential shard just for the upgrading process.
    Even assuming this was a viable path, you wouldn't work with the enhancement bonuses like this but instead just work with the suffix directly, saving the cost of a +1 and +5 shard. Specifally, overwrite LOB with a +1 potential suffix then overwrite that with GLOB. (You still need +14 potential for the final upgrade to GLOB.)

    And it isn't really ironic imo, gcob and glob are simply more focused to a specific task, geob is still very good for a shintao monk for example or just making a general beater for outsiders that isn't meant for bossbeating.
    EOB really shines with Metalline Flametouched Iron weapons, but why bother when you can make cold iron and silver versions that also have holy.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Even assuming this was a viable path, you wouldn't work with the enhancement bonuses like this but instead just work with the suffix directly, saving the cost of a +1 and +5 shard. Specifally, overwrite LOB with a +1 potential suffix then overwrite that with GLOB. (You still need +14 potential for the final upgrade to GLOB.)
    It is a viable path, I've done it. The only reason to make your +5 Holy Burst GLOB a potential +14 item is if you're adding a ritual to it, but imo that isn't really worth 1000 or so lesser essences + the collectibles needed. So your method only works if you're going potential +14, and seeing as the devil beater is 5 + 4 + 4 = potential +13 there is no reason to do that except for stone of change ritual, and that, in my opinion, is a very, very minor upgrade at a huge cost. But if you're swimming in lesser essences (I'm not) then sure, go ahead.

    <edit> And to be more specific about the upgrade I did, it was a +4 Holy Silver Falchion of Lawful Outsider Bane, I upgraded it to a +5 Holy Silver Falchion of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane (don't have the lessers to make +12 and +13 potentials for holy burst atm). The process went like this: upgrade potential +8 to potential +11, apply a Fire Touch (any elemental touch shard will do, they're all metalevel 0) shard so you have a +4 Fire Touch Silver Falchion of LOB, now you have 6 metalevels on a potential +11 item so 5 are free. Next apply +5 enhancement shard and you're left with room to apply GLOB and the upgrade is done. Any other method would require you to upgrade it to a potential +12, and as I said, I don't have the essences for that shard atm, and when you do the upgrade to a holy burst you really don't want to waste essences for a +14 potential shard.
    Last edited by Viisari; 07-04-2011 at 06:03 AM.

  12. #52
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    Whew, thanks for this thread!

    Screwed up making my shield and armor on my armored Wizard, and ended up putting +2 Natural Armor on my shield instead of armor, giving me too high of a ML on my shield to equip if I wanted to put on the suffix I wanted (Parrying). Would have cost me all the materials for +3 Enhancement Bonus (not much, I know, but I didn't have enough arcane essences at the time for it!), but now I happily have my +3 +2 (...lol) Natural Armor Mithril Chain Shirt of Invulnerability and +3 Superior Nullification I Heavy Mithral Shield of Parrying!

    I'd +1 you (both) if I could, but alas I can't... SOMEBODY +1 THESE TWO FOR ME.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    It is a viable path, I've done it. [...] the upgrade I did, it was a +4 Holy Silver [...]
    In the post I was responding to, you were attacking a strawman example of how unwieldy it is to upgrade with an extra potential. In your hypothetical example, you started with a +5 enhancement bonus item, downgraded it to +1 to make room, upgraded the suffix, then re-upped the +1 to +5. Doing it that way requires the same extra potential as just upgrading the suffix directly, so I was merely correcting your hypothetical that you didn't need to mess with the enhancement bonus at all.

    Because this was a correction to a hypothetical strawman that you were demonstrating wasn't viable, I prefaced my correction with "even if this were a viable path."

  14. #54

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    Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

    Looks like they pulled this feature.

    They sure did a bang-up job nerfing crafting with the 10.x series of updates. Taken all together, there's no longer any real point in leveling past 40, IMO.

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