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  1. #21
    Community Member samho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomical View Post
    I had the problem that someone above described - the minimum level got too high.

    I had a +4 holy lawful outsider bane that I was trying to make +4 holy burst greater lawful outsider bane. When I put on the holy burst shard, it just stacked the minimum level on top, making the item level 19 +4 holy burst lawful outsider bane, and not letting me put the greater on.
    Did you increase the potential power of item to 12? because +4(4) holy burst(4) lawful outsider bane(2) does contain potential power 10 and suppose to be min level 19.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    By the time you add an additional level of potential, create a dummy +1 shard, and then add the shard you actually want, this process doesn't save a lot of ingredients.

    For instance, the cost of going from bound +7 to bound +8 is 175 lesser essences, which is the same as going from +5 to +7. This process will really only be useful for replacing an effect on an item which has a very high level, expensive prefix or suffix.
    Well, Holy is the equivalent of 155 lessers all by itself, +4 Enhancement Bonus is 130, and a Greater Outsider Bane is a whopping 297.

    The thing is, when upgrading you only have to add the potential once. Remaking a weapon means redoing the potential each time. So it's a difference of:

    6,7,8,9,10,11,12
    vs
    6, 6,7, 6,7,8, 6,7,8,9, 6,7,8,9,10, 6,7,8,9,10,11, 6,7,8,9,10,11,12.

    This seems like a no-brainer to me even if it didn't also save on the very expensive prefix/suffix shards you'd be recrafting every time. It's the shards of potential that solidify the superiority of upgrading over remaking.

    For the player with a longterm crafting strategy, it makes sense to just up the potential of your silver/cold iron/adamantine/flametouched blanks to +12 right out of the gate and never worry about potential again.

    I think we can agree that at 0 greaters and 4 lessers, the cost of the dummy shard is easily ignored. Especially because you can use virtually any type of lesser you want for this.

    Let's look at a typical crafted item, and I won't even use Holy since they're so expensive compared to their peers that it would stack the deck in my favor. Instead, let's consider the Marut-beater for a level 11 player going to level 13. Let's also assume we're just an average crafter, so only level 35 in Arcane and Divine.

    +2 Anarchic Adamantine Maul of Construct Bane (+6, ML11)
    +3 Anarchic Adamantine Maul of Construct Bane (+7, ML13)

    Anarchic = 3G 12L (27 lessers)
    Construct Bane = 10G 32L (82 lessers)
    +1 Enhancement Bonus = 1G 4L (9 lessers)
    +3 Enhancement Bonus = 6G 32L (62 lessers)
    +6 Potential = 25 lessers
    +7 Potential = 50 lessers
    +8 Potential = 100 lessers

    The idea is you "clear" the +2 Enhancement with a +1 Enhancement, then add the +3 Enhancement. This keeps the required potential to one above the final level.

    Creating the ML13 version from scratch costs 246 lessers, and the resulting weapon has +7 potential
    Upgrading from ML11 to ML13 costs 171 lessers, and the resulting weapon has +8 potential

    Pretty much no matter how you slice it, the upgrade is the better choice. It costs fewer essences and you end up with a better weapon by virtue of it having a higher potential, making the next upgrade cheaper in the process. Even better, of those 171 lessers, 100 can be any type you please (but all of the same type) so this makes getting the required essences together far easier. Not that Chaos essences are particularly hard to find, but this is a huge deal when Holy or Chaotic Outsider Bane get involved.

  3. #23
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samho View Post
    Did you increase the potential power of item to 12? because +4(4) holy burst(4) lawful outsider bane(2) does contain potential power 10 and suppose to be min level 19.
    The ml was right but I witnessed firsthand that she couldn't add the last shard due to a supposed potential issue.

  4. #24
    The Hatchery Rinnaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnaldo View Post
    Has anyone tried replacing an enhancement bonus this way? For example, if you check the box to overwrite, can you replace the +1 you put on a blank with a +2? If you can do this, that would make this an even more awesome find!
    Nevermind, I tested this myself just now to see, and it works! Crafting just got a lot better!

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    The ml was right but I witnessed firsthand that she couldn't add the last shard due to a supposed potential issue.
    Try "blanking" the suffix first with a Lesser Lawful Outsider Bane (0G 4L) to bring the potential down a step before adding the greater and you'd have more wiggle room.

  6. #26
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Try "blanking" the suffix first with a Lesser Lawful Outsider Bane (0G 4L) to bring the potential down a step before adding the greater and you'd have more wiggle room.
    In this case, we're dealing with a +12 effect with a max of 12 potential available, but we can try it later.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    In this case, we're dealing with a +12 effect with a max of 12 potential available, but we can try it later.
    Oh yeah, my bad, I mentioned earlier that the top tier crafted items can't be upgraded but have to be made from scratch because you'll always need one extra step of potential to work with for upgrading. Until/unless they add a +13 potential shard, the best you can upgrade into is a +3 Burst of Greater Bane. (Or a +5 Holy of Greater Bane; not sure which would be better.)

  8. #28
    Community Member Stillwaters's Avatar
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    The only tests i have done is with the stone of change recipes that seem to add +1 (2 ML to the item), decon removes these so thats another reason to be thankful we can just straight overwrite shards.
    When deconning the items the current ML doesnt revert if a stone of change recipe

    Also armor kits are NOT removed on decon - so korthos grindin just got prettier.
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stillwaters View Post
    Also armor kits are NOT removed on decon - so korthos grindin just got prettier.
    This was one of their better design decisions. Before crafting I would never have even considered an armor kit; now that they're effectively permanent even through TR, I just might have to do a little shopping.

  10. #30
    Community Member samho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    In this case, we're dealing with a +12 effect with a max of 12 potential available, but we can try it later.
    Try to replace one of the shard with potential level 0 shard (for example, replace your suffix with fire touch which is potential level 0), then you got enough space to upgrade other part (but of course, in your case you may lost the already applied prefix shard because I can't find any potential level 0 suffix shard at the moment, nor enhancement shard)

    [EDIT] I just found 2 potential level 0 suffix shard, unfortunatelly they are not available within weapon. But whoever crafting stuff on their accessories or armor could consider using them. That's Shard of Resistance(Enchantment) and Poison Save+2.
    Last edited by samho; 06-11-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Oh yeah, my bad, I mentioned earlier that the top tier crafted items can't be upgraded but have to be made from scratch because you'll always need one extra step of potential to work with for upgrading. Until/unless they add a +13 potential shard, the best you can upgrade into is a +3 Burst of Greater Bane. (Or a +5 Holy of Greater Bane; not sure which would be better.)
    The problem being with a +13 potential we'd be making +5 bursts, and at 14 we'd be force ritualling those.

    Ill note the inability to force rit really blows.

  12. #32
    Community Member samho's Avatar
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    So based on some experiment, I think it's safe to say that you can upgrade your post-9.1 item with less cost than crafted from blank.

    That's said if you have a crafted item with Enhancement Bonus X, Prefix Y, and Suffix Z, and you know you can find a potential level 0 shard on either prefix or suffix.

    Then use the potential level 0 dummy shard to downgrade first but do not upgrade the same part yet.

    Finsih upgrade on other part (where you can't find potential level 0).

    And come back to the part with potential level 0 dummy shard and finish your final upgrade.

    [EDIT] In addition, once you downgrade the part with dummy shard, you are better off start with the shard with highest potential level.
    Last edited by samho; 06-11-2011 at 11:33 PM.
    [ Fernia / Ghallanda ]
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  13. #33
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samho View Post
    So based on some experiment, I think it's safe to say that you can upgrade your post-9.1 item with less cost than crafted from blank.

    That's said if you have a crafted item with Enhancement Bonus X, Prefix Y, and Suffix Z, and you know you can find a potential level 0 shard on either prefix or suffix.

    Then use the potential level 0 dummy shard to downgrade first but do not upgrade the same part yet.

    Finsih upgrade on other part (where you can't find potential level 0).

    And come back to the part with potential level 0 dummy shard and finish your final upgrade.
    Now list some +0 potential prefix and suffixes.

  14. #34
    Community Member samho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    Now list some +0 potential prefix and suffixes.
    +0 Potential Prefix:

    Fire Touch, Acid Touch, Cold Touch, Shocking Touch --> can be used on Weapon/Shield

    Minor Spell Penetration I --> can be used on Weapon/Shield, plus Ring and Trinket.

    +0 Potential Suffix:

    Enchantment Save+1, Poison Save+1/+2 --> can be used on all but weapon/shield
    Last edited by samho; 06-11-2011 at 11:22 PM.
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  15. #35
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    by way of curiosity, have you had any luck overwriting with a null prefix/suffix any of those +6 or greater pre 9.1 items?

    also worth noting the stone of change binding is treated as a +1 and runs up against the cap as well if you max out.. no idea on actual stone rituals beyond binding and attuning.

  16. #36
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Very nice, i hope they keep it this way..
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  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by samho View Post
    +0 Potential Prefix:

    Fire Touch, Acid Touch, Cold Touch, Shocking Touch --> can be used on Weapon/Shield

    Minor Spell Penetration I --> can be used on Weapon/Shield, plus Ring and Trinket.

    +0 Potential Suffix:

    Enchantment Save+1, Poison Save+1/+2 --> can be used on all but weapon/shield
    Nice work. This is sufficient to upgrade into +12 potential weapons without having to disjunct, but that means if you're going for a +12 weapon/shield you have to remake the prefix no matter what, and if you're working with anything else you have to remake the suffix no matter what. But you still get substantial essence savings by not having to remake the Enchantment Bonus or the Potential shards.

    For everything less than +12 Potential, just add an extra potential (which you'd probably end up needing eventually anyway) and then use a +0 or +1 dummy shard on the shard you're overwriting before adding the upgraded version and you're good to go.

  18. #38
    Community Member samho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelblueskies View Post
    by way of curiosity, have you had any luck overwriting with a null prefix/suffix any of those +6 or greater pre 9.1 items?

    also worth noting the stone of change binding is treated as a +1 and runs up against the cap as well if you max out.. no idea on actual stone rituals beyond binding and attuning.
    Any pre 9.1 crafted item is Dooooom (er, well, not really, just you can't do anything else beside disjunction at the moment).

    And sadly, I do have a whole lot of pre 9.1 crafted item *sniff*
    [ Fernia / Ghallanda ]
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  19. #39
    Community Member spear67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dingal View Post
    Anyone test if you can downgrade an item?

    I miscalculated my ML in a brain fart and am 2 levels higher than my toon on my weapon. WOuld be cool to remove the +2 and put on a +1 so I could use it.

    Just confirmed, you can downgrade an enhancement, but you need to have the spare crafting levels on the item like mentioned above. So, if you have a +6 total weapon currently, you need to upgrade the potential to +7 to make room for the +1, as it appears to add before it removes. Which I hope is just a bug in the long run, or changing high level enchantments will be a major PITA

  20. #40
    Community Member samho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spear67 View Post
    Just confirmed, you can downgrade an enhancement, but you need to have the spare crafting levels on the item like mentioned above. So, if you have a +6 total weapon currently, you need to upgrade the potential to +7 to make room for the +1, as it appears to add before it removes. Which I hope is just a bug in the long run, or changing high level enchantments will be a major PITA
    Unless you only want to uggrade your enchantment bonus and not willing to redo / upgrade your prefix, the previous work around should still work without extra potential shard.

    Same goes suffix on weapon.

    Note: If you still couldn't figure it out, post your current setup and what you want to upgrade, I'm sure more than one person here could find the process for you.
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