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  1. #21
    Community Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquishedfo View Post
    a few thingsw to keep in mind. Currently NO one argues that the penalty to con drow in paticular recieve is grossly more pemalizing then it was meant to be in PnP. here with the uselessness of AC, HP has become an end all be all and anything that impacts that becomes a much greater flaw worthy of great bonuses to compensate.

    SR in PnP stops not just non damaging magic but many dmging spells as well. AND drow very much laugh at casters typically and are a favored tool of DMs to keep casters in check in end game quests to make warrior types have more of a chance to be useful. SR in itself was grossly nerfed when brought into DDO and so is not the big boon it SHOULD be.

    In PnP SR 10+ character level pretty much always means around a 50% SR to any major threat. In PnP most encounters consist of enemies much lower lvl then you meant to wear you down but not outright threaten your life. It was about the DM wearing down your resources so when you reached taht big dragon who being one foe really was outgunned by typical end game characters no matter what if they where anything less then beat to all hell already. Only those rare super beings like lvl 20+ wizard archmage liches typically shredded through the SR of powerful drow or monk players.
    But SR in pnp is also a double edge sword, in pnp your sr also applies to your allies. You need to take standard action to lower, which means a wasted action in combat to get items like haste.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Could always make the base 10 SR from Drow stackable with items, if the total is superior to base. That'd up the maximum possible to 40, with Epic Mirror Cloak. If that's not enough, could also add the +10 base from Monk Diamond Soul as well, upping it to 50.
    That should still be in acceptable ranges, especially for an ability that doesn't affect damaging spells and abilities.

  3. #23
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Just remove Drow since they are usually dead anyway?

    I kid...but yeah in PnP DnD...SR also effected your allies spells. Aka lets say you "resist" a heal...well then you die.

    On that note...how come Halfling weapons don't count as a size category SMALLER? I know the answer...I am just pointing out how inconsistent it is.
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  4. #24
    Community Member Daggertooth's Avatar
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    As has been stated for like 4 years Drow had THE most ridiculous set of enhancements for Spell Resistance

    For ONE AP you could have SR 11
    For TWO MORE (3) you could have SR 12
    for THREE MORE (total 6?) You could have SR ... wait for it 13...

    Do I need to continue...? If you spent 4 more AP's you could get it up to a whopping 14.

    I think this is the most ridiculous thing that has ever been in DDO.

    Now they get 10 + Level, as most people know. which is pretty good..

    Why not give them an AP LINE FOR SPELL RESISTANCE AND PENETRATION?

    1 AP for 1 additional SR, (i.e. 31 at lvl 20), 2 more for an additional and so on
    Same with Spell Penetration...drow should have a racial line that stacks giving them an additional +1, +2, +3 to Spell Penetration for the appropriate AP cost.

    I dont think its any big mystery that the Devs have caved in on WAY too many things as according to some annoying loudmouthed power gamers who haunt the forums day in and day out. Another perfect example is how Monk Ocean stance lost its bonus to AC while Tumbling. I mean WHAT??? Just because a few ignorant loudmouths stated over and over how tumbling was useless they go ahead and change it to a +3 dodge bonus? Excuse me I among others I know used the +12 AC from ocean stance EXTENSIVELY...

    Its nauseating to say the least that a few ignorant morons can actually have some impact on the decision making of the developers.

  5. #25
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uhtred_Stark View Post
    Everything is getting an upgrade. The core base of AD&D (when facing drow) was Drow had high spell resistance. Make the inate drow spell resist stack with items. Every other class/race can enhance their benefits, why can't drow? If you wear a spell resistance item, shouldn't that enchance your character instead of giving everyone the same benefit drow have?
    So we could have like 55 SR on a drow in DDO? 55 SR would make drow the new warforged.

    Also in the core base D&D, most beneficial spells cast on you by an ally has to be allowed by the drow who has to take a standard action to lower SR.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #26
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Perhaps having SR stack with items would be a little too much, although an useful SR vs epic is desirable: not 100% immunity, but say a nice 50% chance at least.

    One possible way would be to add enhancements to drow that boost their innate SR by a fixed amount:

    - Improved Drow Spell Resistance: +5 (1 AP)
    - Greater Drow Spell Resistance +5 (2 AP) (total +10)
    - Resilient Drow Spell Resistance (4 AP) Forces a spell resistance check before something can dispel or disjunction you

    Ok, so the last one may be too much but still, a little something wouldn't be bad, they need a small boost to be honest, and SR seems a good place to start. Replacing the horrible dragon mark and the cleric prestige spell with something worthwhile would also be nice.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daggertooth View Post
    As has been stated for like 4 years Drow had THE most ridiculous set of enhancements for Spell Resistance

    For ONE AP you could have SR 11
    For TWO MORE (3) you could have SR 12
    for THREE MORE (total 6?) You could have SR ... wait for it 13...

    Do I need to continue...? If you spent 4 more AP's you could get it up to a whopping 14.

    I think this is the most ridiculous thing that has ever been in DDO.

    Now they get 10 + Level, as most people know. which is pretty good..

    Why not give them an AP LINE FOR SPELL RESISTANCE AND PENETRATION?

    1 AP for 1 additional SR, (i.e. 31 at lvl 20), 2 more for an additional and so on
    Same with Spell Penetration...drow should have a racial line that stacks giving them an additional +1, +2, +3 to Spell Penetration for the appropriate AP cost.

    I dont think its any big mystery that the Devs have caved in on WAY too many things as according to some annoying loudmouthed power gamers who haunt the forums day in and day out. Another perfect example is how Monk Ocean stance lost its bonus to AC while Tumbling. I mean WHAT??? Just because a few ignorant loudmouths stated over and over how tumbling was useless they go ahead and change it to a +3 dodge bonus? Excuse me I among others I know used the +12 AC from ocean stance EXTENSIVELY...

    Its nauseating to say the least that a few ignorant morons can actually have some impact on the decision making of the developers.
    If Drow had a Spell Pen line, Elves would have no advantage over them for casters. Elves have a tough enough row to hoe as it is, I reckon the devs shouldn't cave in on this one.

  8. #28
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    If Drow had a Spell Pen line, Elves would have no advantage over them for casters. Elves have a tough enough row to hoe as it is, I reckon the devs shouldn't cave in on this one.
    Right - I'd totally support a Drow SR line, but not a Spell Pen line - let the elves have that
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  9. #29
    Community Member decease's Avatar
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    i think rather then improve drow sr, we should improve all sr.. i mean sr are basically useless.. 30 sr is like nothing at end game..

  10. #30
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    Another option for "stacking" SR would be to require 2 SR checks when casting a spell at a drow with a SR equipment; or 3 for a SR-geared drow monk.

    Could that help?

  11. #31
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    personally I think SR should affect damaging spells as well, not completely negating them since that would be overpowered but perhaps making it a percentage to decrease damage, so sr30 would decrease damaging spells by 30%

  12. #32
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violith View Post
    personally I think SR should affect damaging spells as well, not completely negating them since that would be overpowered but perhaps making it a percentage to decrease damage, so sr30 would decrease damaging spells by 30%
    Exactly my thoughts.. (Though nowhere close in numbers.) Or here's another twist in that vein of thinking...

    SR as fortification?

    Past a certain point SR could function like fortification thereby reducing spell critical chances?
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  13. #33
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    I like the multiple sr checks thing: 1 for drow, 1 for monk, 1 for items/spells

  14. #34
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    With the new expansion coming with a very heavy drow content it would sure be nice to revisit this and upgrade the SR for Drow and start letting it stack. Drow should have significant and useful SR over other races. It continues to be annoying in raids when every other race has virtually the same SR as a drow with one simple aoe spell effect. Now after playing through 7 lives on the same drow I can definately say that the SR is useful as you level, but once you hit 20 and run epics it loses most of its glamor. Maybe you can't stack all SR but one type of SR stacks with a drow's innate SR. Would 55 SR really be game breaking? I think not and it would provide both a realistic flavor of what epic drow (and heck even the witch doctor drow from the cannith challenges) SR should be. Shouldn't PC drow at least play SOMEWHAT like the drow in game? When they brough out Horcs they certainly added a ton of useful bonuses for both flavor and in game benefit. Time to give the drow what they always had in pnp and what the npc drow in game have now.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uhtred_Stark View Post
    Would 55 SR really be game breaking? I think not and it would provide both a realistic flavor of what epic drow (and heck even the witch doctor drow from the cannith challenges) SR should be. Shouldn't PC drow at least play SOMEWHAT like the drow in game?
    snipped to keep it small:
    1: it would be overpowering depending on the circumstances, it would be the difference between getting several different types of cc spells tossed against you, or being almost immune to them. a CR 36 'epic' caster will only be able to bypass the SR on a 20, since npc/mobs do not utilize spell penetration gear/feat/enhancements, it would be extremely powerful at times.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to increasing drow spell reistance, but not just letting it flat out stack, special/specific gear, or enhancements, that increase it by a few points, would be as far as I would like to see it go. Think off a +5 to existing spell resistance being added to some named items or a 4 tier enhancement (2 points per tier) that increases their innate SR by 2 points each.

    Drow, as we play them, already are 'somewhat like the drow in game', compare them to the drow in monastary of the scorpion, and you have pretty much the same spell resistance, but you're trying to compare them to 'epic' drow, which are 16 levels HIGHER then you are, which is like comparing a cub to a lion, they are the same, but one is much 'younger' and thus you can't compare them properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uhtred_Stark View Post
    Now after playing through 7 lives on the same drow I can definately say that the SR is useful as you level, but once you hit 20 and run epics it loses most of its glamor.
    That is your main issue here I believe, you are trying to compare a level 20 drow's spell resistance, against the spell penetration of a level 36+ caster, the CR 36 caster SHOULD be able to (almost) no-fail the spell resistance of such a low level creature.
    Last edited by Forgeborn; 02-10-2012 at 04:28 AM.

  16. #36
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquishedfo View Post
    In PnP SR 10+ character level pretty much always means around a 50% SR to any major threat.
    Why use a whole-number system at all? Make spell resistance a percentile check like incorporeality/concealment/fortification. Change spell pen to a percentile SR bypass, like opportunist for Fortification.

    Drow gets 50% SR
    Monk gets 50% SR
    ePhiarlain Mirror Cloak gets 50% SR
    Spell Resistance (cleric/FvS spell) gets 40% SR
    Spell resistance on gear gets 20-30% SR

    You could even allow it to stack, like WF Innate Fortification.

  17. #37
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Default yes

    That would make Drow actually worth playing.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Gizeh's Avatar
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    Be careful what you wish for - there will probably be a lot of drow in the coming content. Do you really want them all to have a high spell resistance?

  19. #39
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Epic drow already have ridiculously high SR, don't they? How much more ridiculous could they possibly get under this proposed new system?

    [Famous last words...]

    50% might be a little too high; what about just turning SR into percent chance directly? Thus lvl 20 drow & monks have a 30% chance of resisting spells; still seems like a pretty big advantage to me. But then what does Spell Penetration do if you revamp SR in this way?

  20. #40
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Epic drow already have ridiculously high SR, don't they? How much more ridiculous could they possibly get under this proposed new system?

    [Famous last words...]

    50% might be a little too high; what about just turning SR into percent chance directly? Thus lvl 20 drow & monks have a 30% chance of resisting spells; still seems like a pretty big advantage to me. But then what does Spell Penetration do if you revamp SR in this way?
    The same thing it does if there Isn't a huge difference in CLevel: 5% SR bypass per "point" of spell pen under the current system.

    An 11 SR at level 1 or a 30 SR at level 20 is a 50% chance to resist a spell from an equal level caster. Making this a straight 50% modifier is only a concern/benefit when dealing with vastly differing levels. Another way they could fix this is to make CR 36 caster mobs and CR36 drow mobs still have 20 or even 25 "Character levels" or "Hit Dice" concepts that have almost completely disappeared in DDO, and are hugely hindering where they haven't (Turn Undead, for instance)

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