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  1. #21

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    in Sharn Syndicate, the item stolen is a fresco of the Stormreaver, another little bit of foreshadowing.

  2. #22
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    +1 for taking the time, hopefully I will get time to read it all

  3. #23
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pintail View Post
    So what happened during the war between the Giants and Dragons to cause them to become crystalized? Not to mention the whole area. Sorry if obvious to everyone else I've never quite got how or why that happened.
    I can't answer this question, for two reasons:

    • All anywhere says is that Something Happened
    • The history here (this is important) is different between the DDO setting and PnP Eberron.


    My section on the Giants in the first section, for example, is very much a guess of what Turbine envisioned, since there are part of the story line that out-right ignore Eberron canon (for instance, there is no Stormreaver). Because the Eberron history books won't yield anything about the crystals in Gianthold, we have to wait until Turbine gives us more info. For the full-ish history, check out here.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dTarkanan View Post
    in Sharn Syndicate, the item stolen is a fresco of the Stormreaver, another little bit of foreshadowing.
    That same quest also contains several items that connect to other quests and storylines: Nat Gann's Urn, Ark of the Truthful One, Aussircaex's Tooth. There's also a few generically named items that might connect to other storylines: Scorpion's Crown might reference the Vulkoor, Monastary (DDO's spelling not mine) Vase might reference the Monastery of the Scorpion, Bloodeye's Sword references a NPC in Three Barrel Cove, Grail of Eternal Sleep might reference the Devourer of Dreams or Plane of Nightmares. Then there are two items that I just cannot connect to anything: Kamal's Heart and Moogy.

    ----

    There is one storyline connection in Three Barrel Cove found in the explorer: The Black Loch. The entrance to the Black Loch has collapsed and the Blood Tide is blamed. A very small connection to Sentinel, which I also don't think has a larger connection to the big storylines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenostrata View Post
    I can't answer this question, for two reasons:

    • All anywhere says is that Something Happened
    • The history here (this is important) is different between the DDO setting and PnP Eberron.


    My section on the Giants in the first section, for example, is very much a guess of what Turbine envisioned, since there are part of the story line that out-right ignore Eberron canon (for instance, there is no Stormreaver). Because the Eberron history books won't yield anything about the crystals in Gianthold, we have to wait until Turbine gives us more info. For the full-ish history, check out here.
    Thanks Xenostrata at least I don't feel like I'm missing out on something that everyone else knows. Just trying to wrap my mind around what could instantly crystalize dragons and giants in mid battle boggles the mind. It's like the whole region got hit with something that instantly crystalized it and everything in it. Sure would be fun to have a quest to find the answer.

  6. #26
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pintail View Post
    Thanks Xenostrata at least I don't feel like I'm missing out on something that everyone else knows. Just trying to wrap my mind around what could instantly crystalize dragons and giants in mid battle boggles the mind. It's like the whole region got hit with something that instantly crystalized it and everything in it. Sure would be fun to have a quest to find the answer.
    Hints are given that imply that, during the war between the Dragons and the Giants, the Dragons decided to end the war by effectively nuking the whole battleground, killing everything (including the dragons) inside of it.
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  7. #27
    Community Member Primalhowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenostrata View Post
    I can't answer this question, for two reasons:

    • All anywhere says is that Something Happened
    • The history here (this is important) is different between the DDO setting and PnP Eberron.

    Having read your take, the link you quoted, and the (3rd ed) source material, I am still struggling to see *how* the storyline from DDO is different from PnP Eberron. The overall events listed in the PnP stuff are vague and leave quite a bit of room in which all of the DDO events could have occured. I see absolutely nothing contradictory.

    Can you clairfy?

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    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalhowl View Post
    Having read your take, the link you quoted, and the (3rd ed) source material, I am still struggling to see *how* the storyline from DDO is different from PnP Eberron. The overall events listed in the PnP stuff are vague and leave quite a bit of room in which all of the DDO events could have occured. I see absolutely nothing contradictory.

    Can you clairfy?
    I suppose it could be seen as so vague that DDO merely extrapolated something that could be the case. However, no mention is made of the Stormreaver or any lasting damage (crystals) beyond the complete destruction of Giant civilization: I can see the crystals being glossed over, but the Stormreaver is a central piece to DDO lore and the story of the first Quori invasion. If Keith Baker had been the inventor of the Stormreaver, he probably would have made a mention of him in one of the Eberron source books.

    Because DDO makes mention of things that can't be pinpointed in PnP lore, and PnP has stories that aren't mentioned in DDO dialogue, I made an effort to piece together what I thought was the most likely story from the two accounts. Hence the disclaimer about that particular plot arc.
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  9. #29
    Community Member Primalhowl's Avatar
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    Let me start by saying that I am nitpicking here because I think what you have done here is pretty freaking awesome and I am trying to act as a bit of a devils advocate to resolve an issue that you have found in your own work. So...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenostrata View Post
    <snip...> However, no mention is made of the Stormreaver or any lasting damage (crystals) beyond the complete destruction of Giant civilization: I can see the crystals being glossed over<...snip>

    <snip...>Because DDO makes mention of things that can't be pinpointed in PnP lore, and PnP has stories that aren't mentioned in DDO dialogue, I made an effort to piece together what I thought was the most likely story from the two accounts. Hence the disclaimer about that particular plot arc.
    Okay. I can see that. You are trying to distinguish between material that is purely DDO from material that is shared. That is understandable, but I don't think it means that the histories are different. I prefer to assume that unless a direct contradiction occurs, *both* events have happened. There is no actual information on what remained after the Dragons completed their scorched earth policy *at all*.

    So how can the Stormreaver and/or the crystals as shown in DDO be non-canon. There is also no specific information about what magic or artifacts were used by the Giants to attempt to save themselves. I would argue that DDO has effectively expanded on the information provided in the PnP sourcebooks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenostrata View Post
    If Keith Baker had been the inventor of the Stormreaver, he probably would have made a mention of him in one of the Eberron source books.
    Over half of the PnP sourcebooks about Eberron were written by someone other than Keith Baker. Just because it didn't come from the mind of the Hellcow doesn't mean it isn't canon.

    I guess my point is that if there is nothing in PnP sources to contradict the storylines of DDO, then assume that it is canon. If you want to list sources, go ahead. But to indicate that PnP and DDO have different histories doesn't seem accurate to me.

  10. #30
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalhowl View Post
    Let me start by saying that I am nitpicking here because I think what you have done here is pretty freaking awesome and I am trying to act as a bit of a devils advocate to resolve an issue that you have found in your own work. So...



    Okay. I can see that. You are trying to distinguish between material that is purely DDO from material that is shared. That is understandable, but I don't think it means that the histories are different. I prefer to assume that unless a direct contradiction occurs, *both* events have happened. There is no actual information on what remained after the Dragons completed their scorched earth policy *at all*.

    So how can the Stormreaver and/or the crystals as shown in DDO be non-canon. There is also no specific information about what magic or artifacts were used by the Giants to attempt to save themselves. I would argue that DDO has effectively expanded on the information provided in the PnP sourcebooks...



    Over half of the PnP sourcebooks about Eberron were written by someone other than Keith Baker. Just because it didn't come from the mind of the Hellcow doesn't mean it isn't canon.

    I guess my point is that if there is nothing in PnP sources to contradict the storylines of DDO, then assume that it is canon. If you want to list sources, go ahead. But to indicate that PnP and DDO have different histories doesn't seem accurate to me.
    Well argued (+1 rep). It really is a matter of strict-interpretation versus loose-interpretation. I see anything not included in the original history books as something non-canon, you see anything that doesn't contradict the books as canon. Both are correct, I suppose.

    Also, my Baker comment was mostly just to be used as an example: my meaning was that the Stormreaver wasn't included in the books (whether by Baker or not) and I therefore saw it as non-canon.
    Last edited by Xenostrata; 09-28-2011 at 04:57 PM.
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  11. #31
    Community Member enigma1122's Avatar
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    Very nice, have wanted to do something like this for a while but I am a lazy person. There are a few more ties that I don't know if anyone has mentioned. I think in STK, maybe WW there is mention of a name, the name is the same name as a named gargoyle in Threnal, who is a cousin of the named gargoyle in Cerulean Hills.... stuff like that. If I can remember / find the details, I'll send them forward.

  12. #32
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma1122 View Post
    Very nice, have wanted to do something like this for a while but I am a lazy person. There are a few more ties that I don't know if anyone has mentioned. I think in STK, maybe WW there is mention of a name, the name is the same name as a named gargoyle in Threnal, who is a cousin of the named gargoyle in Cerulean Hills.... stuff like that. If I can remember / find the details, I'll send them forward.
    Please do, that little snippet has me incredibly intrigued

    Edit: Note, though, that most of the stuff I will bother typing is stuff that pertains (mostly) to the major plot lines of DDO. While cookies are cool, I would wear myself out trying to find/type all of them.
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  13. #33
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yawumpus View Post
    Yeah, that Gygax guy couldn't come up with an RPG that was just like everyone elses'...

    [note, I suspect that almost all Greyhawk material was created after he was forced out. I have the original setting, but it is little more than a huge map with small hints as to what each nation is.

    Forgotten Realms may be TSR's idea of post-Gygax generic fantasy (and ever so useful to any DM addicted to NPC-ex-machina), but Greyhawk is something else.
    hhmmm, let me help you with this, Greyhawk originally was made by none other than E. Gary Gygax! The original name was "Old Greyhawk Castle"
    I started playing Greyhawk in 1972, and was the frist official campaign setting. Soon afterwards Dave Arneson strated writing the Blackmoor series as "modules", which were based on his childhood experiences & playtime in his parents basement!
    Both of these settings were the make up of what's known as D&D & AD&D (for players wanting to convert from AD&D to 3.0 & 3.5 go here http://www.adnd3egame.com/documents/conversionbook.pdf)
    As the war between Gygax & the Blumes' erupted, TSR brought in a new dev team that basically trashed most of the original work by Gygax, Anreson, Kaye and several others. (I can go into detail, but thats already been posted, as has most of the OPs content. Gratz for that)
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...revenge+giants is a thread I started that has a module I created that kind of encompasses what you're writing about. I have edited that thread to its current bare bones material, as there are a few issues with me posting material that is still under consideration by a certain company (sorry can't elaborate)
    Need more info? Ill be more than happy to aid in the thread, as I feel it's a good read for those interested in more than just killin stuff!
    PS here's 2 maps of the Greyhawk setting.





    Last edited by ferd; 09-28-2011 at 06:11 PM.


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    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  14. #34
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this, can't believe I missed it when I was looking before.

    I posted this in your thread, but will post it here as well: was the background story from a core Eberron book, or a Turbine publication?
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  15. #35
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    There goes my theory that Eberron was created by a race of 20 foot tall drunk penguins...

    Seriously though, fantastic job! Been looking for something like this for a while

    Turbine, if you could see fit to include 20 foot tall drunk penguins in the next update, I would be really grateful
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    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  16. #36
    The Hatchery jejeba86's Avatar
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    Great job!
    I started the game reading all the stories, but after a while i just skipped them as almost everyone else. But I still, sometimes, read all the plots.
    +1 rep.

  17. #37
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalhowl View Post
    Let me start by saying that I am nitpicking here because I think what you have done here is pretty freaking awesome and I am trying to act as a bit of a devils advocate to resolve an issue that you have found in your own work. So...



    Okay. I can see that. You are trying to distinguish between material that is purely DDO from material that is shared. That is understandable, but I don't think it means that the histories are different. I prefer to assume that unless a direct contradiction occurs, *both* events have happened. There is no actual information on what remained after the Dragons completed their scorched earth policy *at all*.

    So how can the Stormreaver and/or the crystals as shown in DDO be non-canon. There is also no specific information about what magic or artifacts were used by the Giants to attempt to save themselves. I would argue that DDO has effectively expanded on the information provided in the PnP sourcebooks...



    Over half of the PnP sourcebooks about Eberron were written by someone other than Keith Baker. Just because it didn't come from the mind of the Hellcow doesn't mean it isn't canon.

    I guess my point is that if there is nothing in PnP sources to contradict the storylines of DDO, then assume that it is canon. If you want to list sources, go ahead. But to indicate that PnP and DDO have different histories doesn't seem accurate to me.
    I found an interesting Dev quote, that might add some clarification to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    We have creative license to fill in the blanks. Of which, there are a lot, especially in Xen'drik. Speaking with Keith Baker was interesting: he views all published materials a little bit like a holy text, meaning that every single word is open to interpretation, and it's ok for it to contradict itself. It was really hard to pull a non-ambiguous answer out of him.
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  18. #38
    Community Member balancetraveller's Avatar
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    Nice post

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenostrata View Post
    The Malificent Cabal
    Important Plot Points for Later: Malicia's attempt to control House Phiarlan was just the first (not counting the invasion) attempt of the Devils to take control of Eberron. Also, there is an interesting optional in the Big Top in which you decide whether or not to help a Devil who wants to stop Malicia, proving that not all the Devils are acting in concert.
    Another point for you: Malicia is finally killed in the quest "Wrath of the Flame".

  19. #39
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by balancetraveller View Post
    Nice post



    Another point for you: Malicia is finally killed in the quest "Wrath of the Flame".
    Spoilers :P

    That's more of an interesting tidbit, since it does nothing to progress the main story. I suppose I could add "Also, you'll be seeing Malicia later."
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  20. #40
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    I dont want to sound critical of you OP as I am not. I applaud your effort. Its just that its pointless as the DDO world is very full of bits of story that outright conflict with the actual PnP setting.

    However beyond that is even most older PnP players, least the ones I know. Hate Eberron as it of all the D&D worlds is the only one that doesnt jive with the multiverse properly. The very idea of things like warforged and them havinga god is outright wrong in the greater sense of things. I could of gotten them worshipping maybe a modron god and being made by some mad tinker mage gnome. But things like the lord of blades, and in general how eberron ignores much of the long established planar lore of the D&D multi verse always meant to me that even as a serious RPer in other MMOs and at the table top, DDO is the one where that is just all pointless waste of personal energy.

    Especially since the devs do nothing to encourage RP and make the game meant for min maxxed twinkers and RPers even on the so called RP server get more harrassment then not.

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