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Thread: PvP Solution?

  1. #1
    Community Member Blackfang321's Avatar
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    Default PvP Solution?

    I guess this post isn't really meant towards people who think PvP is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...and PvP is probably more enjoyable to some people than other people. But it seems like its NOT enjoyable to a lot of people...so I wanted to throw some brain storms out there to see what people think.

    Note these are ideas off the top of my head...not carefully planned out changes that I'm going to rage about Turbine not adopting immediately. I'm more curious to see what other players think about different PvP concepts.

    1) Immediate replenish (or increased rate of replenish) HP/MP regen upon release from brawl death.

    2) A level 1-5, 3-7, 5-9, so forth area. Also maybe specific-class-only areas? This may not work due to multiclassing. Perhaps you can join higher level areas but not lower level areas. And maybe a free-for-all room like now.

    3) Talking to NPC to get "spawned" into the area to prevent ranged from jumping down, killing, and jumping up to prevent reprisals.

    4) Ranked matches with unique rewards. Team matches too? Maybe tournaments? The rewards and ranks would reinstall interest in PvP...and perhaps balance out skill levels a bit by utilizing the ranking systems.

    5) Somehow balance out the caster/melee issues that many find? Perhaps by giving everyone a x5 or x10 bonus to HP in the brawl? This would make combat last longer and give more chance for action to happen. It would be easy to develop too, since no game chances need apply.

    6) Something involving guilds. Guild vs. Guild may or may not work...especially given the differences in guild sizes...but again if you do rankings (and a weekly renown bonus due to rank?) it could work.

    A lot of this may be resolved by the "arenas" that exist in game...but every time I talk to them nobody seems to be using the arena...brawl seems prevalent. Maybe by adding rankings and rewards (guild renown?) we could rekindle interest in the arenas and get things swinging again.

    Anyways...just ideas. I know many would probably not work...but if anyone thinks I'm thinking along the right lines and would like to see PvP become more...well..featured I'd love to hear a reply!

  2. #2
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackfang321 View Post
    ...
    A lot of this may be resolved by the "arenas" that exist in game...but every time I talk to them nobody seems to be using the arena...brawl seems prevalent.
    ...
    There's a reason for that - the kind of people who PvP in this game seem to enjoy the behavior that you are trying to avoid.

    Find other people in the game who want to PvP the way you do, and start up some arena challenges with friends. You will have better luck looking for them in PUGs than in PvP.

    For the record, PvP was added to this game like an evaporative cooler bolted onto the side of a minivan. Sure, it works, but any attempt to "fix" it will result in a flood of advice to just get a new car.
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  3. #3
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    I think the challenge system could resolve pvp. Make wilderness areas with NPC mobs and goals that either team can achieve. Not that it sounds familiar or anything...

  4. #4
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    1. Finish the classes.
    2. Finish the races.
    3. Finish the PrEs.
    4. Reduce the lag.
    5. Reduce the number of bugs.
    6. Force the search screen to pop up whenever anyone types in PvP.

    Look, DDO was created as a team based PvE game. PvP was thrown in
    because people wanted a time waster ... they got it. Done.

    The amount of work you have put into arguing your point, you could
    have found a game that gives you PvP. End of statement.

  5. #5
    Community Member Blackfang321's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by likuei View Post
    1. Finish the classes.
    2. Finish the races.
    3. Finish the PrEs.
    4. Reduce the lag.
    5. Reduce the number of bugs.
    6. Force the search screen to pop up whenever anyone types in PvP.
    Don't get me wrong...I understand how you feel. Plenty of people feel the same way. But I guess I sort of figure an MMO game is never "finished". They are always going to be working on something in terms of races, prestiges, and classes...and there are ALWAYS going to be bugs. Shoot...sometimes it seems half the players can't decided if something is a bug or a feature. Turbine too, perhaps.

    Waiting for them to flush out a bare-bones feature until they fine-tweak every other thing seems...unnecessary. In my opinion, I can play PvE just fine with the current races/classes/prestiges. Not that I don't want them to continue to grow...I do. But I can't really experience PvP at all.

    And its not that I want to play a PvP MMO. I want to play PvP within DDO. I shouldn't have to give up DDO to experience a well crafted PvP experience.

    But also keep in mind this post isn't meant to be a "should we improve PvP?" post. Its a "assuming we were to improve PvP, what should we do?" post.

  6. #6
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    seems like alot of people really have a real problem with PVP. They always belittle people who enjoy it. Probably because they arent very good at it. I'm not sure why there cant be pvp for those who enjoy it. I think rankings as well as tournament are great suggestions. Pvp in DDO is not like any other mmo because of the immense diversity in char building. Lot of different ways to beat opponents. Would give another design for char builds. The PVP build.

  7. #7
    Community Member jcTharin's Avatar
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    bah, just play dirty. that will let you get revenge on that caster.

    or where you complaining about arcane archer? i don't know. i never actually read anything anyone posts about PvP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    seems like alot of people really have a real problem with PVP. They always belittle people who enjoy it. Probably because they arent very good at it. I'm not sure why there cant be pvp for those who enjoy it. I think rankings as well as tournament are great suggestions. Pvp in DDO is not like any other mmo because of the immense diversity in char building. Lot of different ways to beat opponents. Would give another design for char builds. The PVP build.
    Well, thing is, casters now dominate unless you manage to get your hands onto a (purple or indigo or something) ion stone or that new piece of armor.

    Which is fine for me, but my main's a caster.....

  9. #9
    Community Member Blackfang321's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcTharin View Post
    bah, just play dirty. that will let you get revenge on that caster.

    or where you complaining about arcane archer? i don't know. i never actually read anything anyone posts about PvP.
    Then why are you even posting here if you're not reading anything? :-P

  10. #10
    Community Member Philibusta's Avatar
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    Bottom line imo, is this:

    DDO is NOT a PvP-oriented game.

    DDO, and D&D, have always been about groups of players working TOGETHER to accomplish goals. Not about fighting your fellow players for.....um....for nothing, really.

    There aren't any rewards for PvP victories, except bragging rights I guess. And bragging about PvP victories will simply annoy everyone within earshot (type-shot?) and probably get you squelched. Cause no one else cares that you won a PvP fight. And even if there were some kind of reward you could win...they still wouldn't care.

    The one thing I do agree with is this: IF.....IF...PvP receives ANY attention, it should be to make level-range-restricted zones for it. At least that would stop the jackholes with level 20s who like to go down to the Wayward Lobster and slaughter level 4s and 5s and then brag about how "uber" they are.

    But in the meantime...go ahead, go into the brawl areas and waste your heal pots and mem pots and whatever other resources you use up while doing it...for...um.....nothing.
    All that is wrong with DDO, life, taxes, poltics, religion, music, fast food, education, the criminal justice system, the weather, society, the universe, and previously-discontinued-but-now-on-their-way-back snack cakes, is all the fault of Wizards of the Coast. I know this because Fred told me so, and Mind Flayers are smart.

  11. #11
    Community Member Samadhi's Avatar
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    I really like your idea number 1. Having to sit there and regen HP for a minute when the fight itself lasts 3 seconds is pretty annoying.

    Not signed on number 3. That's half the fun.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Zorack00's Avatar
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    To be straight forward I like PvP, but I got other games for that such as LoL. It would require a lot of tweaking since anyone with decent ranged capabilities and healing would destroy everyone else in PvP. One problem I see is that the melee have no gap closer (Something like the minotaur's charge would be cool) between an enemy caster or such (Who in the usual case is also a lot faster than you from haste). Of course, then the casters also have a lot more utilities (CC and Buffs). So it's a lot to balance and would change the current PvE game.

    I wouldn't really mind some PvP (Despite how most people in the forums despise it) since I actually know a lot of people who stress over it. A frequently asked question from new players that I've seen is "Where's the PvP?" However, if I were to choose more content or PvP, I would definitely choose more content. I think don't PvP is something Turbine should worry about until they finished all the PRE for the classes and finish the story lines that they created but never bothered finishing (Truthful One, Shavarath, Droam, Dreaming Dark possibly, and they just made another one...) Even then it may not work without messing everything up, this is probably just one of those games that's only balanced...ish in PvE...
    Last edited by Zorack00; 05-06-2011 at 10:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    seems like alot of people really have a real problem with PVP. They always belittle people who enjoy it. Probably because they arent very good at it. I'm not sure why there cant be pvp for those who enjoy it. I think rankings as well as tournament are great suggestions. Pvp in DDO is not like any other mmo because of the immense diversity in char building. Lot of different ways to beat opponents. Would give another design for char builds. The PVP build.

    I have never had a problem with anyone wanting to PVP. It is something I would never do because I have zero interest in it but to each their own. The problem I have with PVP is the way a lot of people handle it. How many times has the general chat been filled with insults and people complaining about being killed. Many times you see peple complaining that "you couldnt kill me if you didnt cast dance" or " a lvl 20 killing a lvl 5, thats fiar" and etc etc.

    Then those who are tired of this behavior add in their comments and it turns even worse. I admit I am guilty of this. Yea Yea, I know I could just turn off general chat and it would be fixed. I shouldnt have to do this though. If people would act mature enough then Im willing to bet there would be a lot less people who dislike PVP.

    I have asked for/said this many, many times. Just give those who are brawlinng their own chat channel and so much trouble could be avoided. I know the chances of this and people acting mature are very, very slim but one can hope someday it happens

  14. #14
    Community Member KillEveryone's Avatar
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    I do not ever want my casters to be messed up because of a "balancing" issue in PvP with melees.

    If a "balance" was implemented, it will probably affect my casters in PvE and I don't care to see that.

    When something gets fixed, something else gets broken.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Ashurr's Avatar
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    I love PvP.
    I've been a PvP'er in every MMO I've ever played.
    I left the last MMO I played religiously for 4 years because they turned PvP into a spectator sport.

    I do not PvP in DDO....this says something.

    As Philibusta said, PvP is the antithesis of what a D&D group is, however, there is a white elephant in the room -

    PvP would be excellent IF it were between Guilds only ( makes sense RP wise as well, as Xen'drik is a frontier continent and full of ancient magic begging to be reclaimed..t'would make sense for different groups to come ot blows over particularly juicy bits of esoterica).

    Remove Tavern brawling and make PvP only Guild-wide ( airship combat perhaps?)

    There's yer fix.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Vyrn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackfang321 View Post
    I guess this post isn't really meant towards people who think PvP is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...and PvP is probably more enjoyable to some people than other people. But it seems like its NOT enjoyable to a lot of people...so I wanted to throw some brain storms out there to see what people think.

    Note these are ideas off the top of my head...not carefully planned out changes that I'm going to rage about Turbine not adopting immediately. I'm more curious to see what other players think about different PvP concepts.

    1) Immediate replenish (or increased rate of replenish) HP/MP regen upon release from brawl death.

    2) A level 1-5, 3-7, 5-9, so forth area. Also maybe specific-class-only areas? This may not work due to multiclassing. Perhaps you can join higher level areas but not lower level areas. And maybe a free-for-all room like now.

    3) Talking to NPC to get "spawned" into the area to prevent ranged from jumping down, killing, and jumping up to prevent reprisals.

    4) Ranked matches with unique rewards. Team matches too? Maybe tournaments? The rewards and ranks would reinstall interest in PvP...and perhaps balance out skill levels a bit by utilizing the ranking systems.

    5) Somehow balance out the caster/melee issues that many find? Perhaps by giving everyone a x5 or x10 bonus to HP in the brawl? This would make combat last longer and give more chance for action to happen. It would be easy to develop too, since no game chances need apply.

    6) Something involving guilds. Guild vs. Guild may or may not work...especially given the differences in guild sizes...but again if you do rankings (and a weekly renown bonus due to rank?) it could work.

    A lot of this may be resolved by the "arenas" that exist in game...but every time I talk to them nobody seems to be using the arena...brawl seems prevalent. Maybe by adding rankings and rewards (guild renown?) we could rekindle interest in the arenas and get things swinging again.

    Anyways...just ideas. I know many would probably not work...but if anyone thinks I'm thinking along the right lines and would like to see PvP become more...well..featured I'd love to hear a reply!
    All very nice, thought out idea, but I have to say Im against spending dev time on pvp. Before you say Im anti-pvp or something along the lines of that, I pvp about 80% of my time .

    A fix for pvp along the lines of the community would be to simply leave it alone, every single pvp thread I see somehow degenerates into flames, too much bad will for pvp on the forums.
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  17. #17
    Community Member AMDarkwolf's Avatar
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    Pvp fix: Create small, but dedicated pvp server.

    On said server, make ALL spells allowable everywhere, make ALL targets(not counting npcs intown) valid targets for ANY spell, ANYWHERE, including quests.

    be a challenge to play said server but pvp'ers would be happy, and 'realists' (if there's such a thing in ddo world ) would also find it enjoyable. When someone wants to join the server, make a big ugly flashing red pop-up declaring that it IS open combat, EVERYWHERE. A caster throws a hold, YOU have to save as well as the mobs.

  18. #18
    Community Member Yajerman01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackfang321 View Post
    I guess this post isn't really meant towards people who think PvP is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...and PvP is probably more enjoyable to some people than other people. But it seems like its NOT enjoyable to a lot of people...so I wanted to throw some brain storms out there to see what people think.

    Note these are ideas off the top of my head...not carefully planned out changes that I'm going to rage about Turbine not adopting immediately. I'm more curious to see what other players think about different PvP concepts.

    1) Immediate replenish (or increased rate of replenish) HP/MP regen upon release from brawl death. awesome idea, but sometimes I take the time to re-heal as an opportunity to digest what had transpired.

    2) A level 1-5, 3-7, 5-9, so forth area. Also maybe specific-class-only areas? This may not work due to multiclassing. Perhaps you can join higher level areas but not lower level areas. And maybe a free-for-all room like now. Id jsut assume to keep it within level restrictions rather than break it up by class.

    3) Talking to NPC to get "spawned" into the area to prevent ranged from jumping down, killing, and jumping up to prevent reprisals. that is part of the brawl concept. Deathmatch already provids preventive reprisals

    4) Ranked matches with unique rewards. Team matches too? Maybe tournaments? The rewards and ranks would reinstall interest in PvP...and perhaps balance out skill levels a bit by utilizing the ranking systems. im for team matches, tournaments but the rewards would have to be exclusive and not beneficial to pve. rankings would be cool. Leave skill balancing alone insofar as it was currently implemented pre u9.

    5) Somehow balance out the caster/melee issues that many find? Perhaps by giving everyone a x5 or x10 bonus to HP in the brawl? This would make combat last longer and give more chance for action to happen. It would be easy to develop too, since no game chances need apply. Good meleers found a way to live long enough to kill their foe pre u9, im against full out balance as caster and clerics should rule but there should be a margin of victory for melees who are skilled, geared bound by a solid melee class. Rankings might be spilt up between meleers v meleers and/or meleers v caster for competiotion purposes. Different titles for different accomplishments.

    6) Something involving guilds. Guild vs. Guild may or may not work...especially given the differences in guild sizes...but again if you do rankings (and a weekly renown bonus due to rank?) it could work. Minimum guild requirements can be acocunted for 4v4 or 8v8 but certainly have a guild max. Guild pvp rankign can be determinate on the size of your guild and/or member participation in pvp.

    A lot of this may be resolved by the "arenas" that exist in game...but every time I talk to them nobody seems to be using the arena...brawl seems prevalent. Maybe by adding rankings and rewards (guild renown?) we could rekindle interest in the arenas and get things swinging again. Epeen rewards, name recognition/rankings would be the way to go becasue I wouldn't want a guild as a whole earn renown for pvp or any special items for that matter, but something pvp oriented only would be cool.

    Anyways...just ideas. I know many would probably not work...but if anyone thinks I'm thinking along the right lines and would like to see PvP become more...well..featured I'd love to hear a reply!

    I think all your ideas warrant consideration and are good ideas.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    seems like alot of people really have a real problem with PVP.
    I don't think this is true.

    I jumped into a PvP discussion a few days ago and the forum threads about PvP have drawn my attention since then. I am noticing that the number of people who object to PvP really is the same group of people. They just go from PvP thread to PvP thread and repeat their objections.

    It amounts to trolling, IMO, and I support the thread asking Turbine to prohibit negative comments about PvP in the PvP section of the forums for that reason. From observation it is a small and very vocal group of players who are constantly making negative comments about PvP.

    And, they have enough forum reputation that when somebody comes along being even minimally supportive they use the negative reputation function to bash them.

    I think that the vast majority of people don't care one way or another about PvP in DDO and are willing to let those who like it keep on battling one another.

  20. #20
    Community Member Khanyth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    .... Probably because they arent very good at it. .....
    100% incorrect

    People don't like PvP because has an individualize focus of "me against you" , rather than the traditional "us vs a helluvalotta them"

    People don't like PvP because of the traditional attitudes and characteristic and methods of PvP players.

    People don't like PvP because a vast of majority do NOT play PvP

    People don't like PvP because they feel that dev time should be focused on fixing the game, rather than an individual facet of the game.

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